Dear Jeremy, et al., Just for clarification: my wife's family comes from the town of Suwalki proper and various neighboring shtetlach in Suwalki Gubernia and also neighboring Vilna and Kovno gubernias, including Marijampole, Kovno, Kaletnik, Szaki and others, which were part of the Russian Empire when they were born (early to late 19th century), but later parts of Poland and Lithuania. The specific towns of birth and residence were derived from Suwalki birth, marriage, and death records microfilmed by the Mormons and/or indexed under the JRI-Poland project. For this particular part of my wife's family, we got very very lucky in that we were able to find a large number of family records, including the marriages of her great-grandparents and great-great-grandparents. Not only that, but the records were reasonably legible and complete. Now, if only I had such luck with my own family... Brian Neil Burg Fullerton, CA Researching: KABAKOFF & PORTNOI from Dokshitsy and nearby shtetlach (Minsk Gub.); CHAJKIELSON, GOLUBSKI, TYLZANSKI, & KRZYWULSKI f/Suwalki, Marijampole, Szaki and neighboring shtetlach and WASZKIEWICZ f/Widugieri (Suwalki Gub.); BARNETT, SANDLER & MYERS from Swansea, Wales; BAILIN & RIKLIN from Klintsy & Surazh (Chernigov Gub.); BURG, KLEIN/KLEINER, ZUCKERKANDEL f/Sasov & Podkamen (Austria, now Ukr.); CHARATZ and BIK from Staraya Sinyava & Khmielnik (Podolsk Gub.); FRYDMAN, GUTMAN, JASKULKA & JASTRZAB f/Sokolow Podlaski, Wegrow, & Sterdyn (Siedlce Gub.) & FRYDMAN later from Buenos Aires, Argentina. In a message dated 6/10/2008 10:41:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jfrankel@lmi.net writes: Brian Burg's comment where we wrote that he believed his family came from Suwalki points out one of the challenges when describing such places in Eastern Europe where not only has so much changed but where communities and regions also shared the same name. When Brian writes Suwalki, is he referring to the city or the region? Furthermore, depending upon the time frame (I am thinking of the period of the Lithuanian-Polish empire) then I believe that one could also include southwestern Lithuania as a part of Suwalki. Apparently the name came from Suvaikja, a small region in southwest Lithuania, abutting Poland, whose unofficial capital was Marijampole, just a few miles from Vilkaviskis, where my Koenigsberg family came from. Words do matter, and as we know, the devil is always in the details. -- Jeremy G Frankel **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

Dear Debbie, Looking at the end of your last letter, I see you are researching Hart in the East End.. Do you have any connections to me Hart family which I can only take back to the cencus of 1851 Aaron Hart, Goulston Street, and his many children.Abraham, Amelia, Sarah, Rachel, Michael, Moss, Julia, Elizabeth and Catherine. I dont know who his waife was, but her first name was Esther, possibly Levy. She probably died from exhaustion looking after all those children!. with bet wishes, Louise----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie Bozkurt" <debbieinscotland@googlemail.com> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:26 PM Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] The HELLER sisters from the East End of London

Brian Burg's comment where we wrote that he believed his family came from Suwalki points out one of the challenges when describing such places in Eastern Europe where not only has so much changed but where communities and regions also shared the same name. When Brian writes Suwalki, is he referring to the city or the region? Furthermore, depending upon the time frame (I am thinking of the period of the Lithuanian-Polish empire) then I believe that one could also include southwestern Lithuania as a part of Suwalki. Apparently the name came from Suvaikja, a small region in southwest Lithuania, abutting Poland, whose unofficial capital was Marijampole, just a few miles from Vilkaviskis, where my Koenigsberg family came from. Words do matter, and as we know, the devil is always in the details. -- Jeremy G Frankel ex Edgware, London, England Berkeley, California, USA EBIN: Russia, New York, USA FRANKEL: Poland, London, England GOLDRATH/GOLD: Praszka, Poland, London, England KOENIGSBERG: Vilkaviskis, Lithuania, London, England, NYC, NY, USA LEVY (later LEADER): Kalisz, Poland, London, England PRINCZ/PRINCE: Krakow, Poland, London, England, NYC, NY, USA

Dear Steve and genners, The 1901 London census,area Whitechapel is of YEOMANS YARD no.18. This was the address for Mark Epstein, listed as "brother",living with Woolf Rockshar and family. Sincerely Brenda Habshush,Israel. . . DISCLAIMER: This mail message was scanned for malicious content by Quality Bytes Mail Security when leaving the gateway of Quality Bytes http://qb.q-bytes.com/qbms/?c=qb .

Hi There For more years than I can bear to remember I have been looking for the marriage of my 2 x Great Grandfather Philip PHILLIPS (aka. James PHILLIPS or Philip James PHILLIPS) to Ann/Annie/Hannah MOSS with no luck. Philip PHILLIPS was born in about 1842 in CARMARTHEN SOUTH WALES according to census and died in 1889 EAST LONDON. I have tried many ways of finding any details about the family, the names are too common to pin down but have never found a marriage certificate. I can not find any headstone for either Philip or his wife (in later years called herself Hannah PHILLIPS) who died in around 1915, East London, which might have given me the fathers name of either one. I did wonder if Philip was Jewish but I sent off in desperation a month ago for the Marriage Authorization of my Great Grandfather Moses PHILLIPS to see if it mentioned anything about his father or a Hebrew name but although I didn't get translated I don't think it mentioned anything. This is my last ditch attempt at trying to locate one branch of my family, I have decided to try and trace my Great Great Aunts and Uncles Family's maybe a distant Cousin had the marriage certificate handed down or something similar. So does anyone know the following members of my family or have them on their tree; Elizabeth PHILLIPS who married Lewis WOLDER about 1890 and had the following children; Annie WOLDER born 1892, Barnett WOLDER born 1893, Martguerita born 1894, Esther WOLDER born 1896, Philip Samuel WOLDborn 1869 ER born 1898, Isaac WOLDER born 1901 and Leah WOLDER born 1903 all in EAST LONDON. Leah Martha PHILLIPS married Philip ABRAHAMS 1912 a Carpenter both Living at 77 Brady Street Buildings East London. She is quoted as 24 on her wedding certificate but was actually 37, so I don't know if they had any children. Philip James PHILLIPS was born 10th December 1880 and I don't know if he married, have sent off for various certificates which were incorrect. If anyone has any information about the above family or have any Annie MOSS who married Philip PHILLIPS (aka James) please please let me know. Finding Annie MOSS and finding out who Philip PHILLIPS would mean so very much to me. Kind Regards Debbie Debbie Bozkurt Outer Hebrides

I am hoping that the following may ring some bells for people; I am looking for the 2 remaining 'lost' Heller sisters, there were 4 sisters born to David HELLER and Jane JACOBS; Annie HELLER born 1871, Leah HELLER born 1872, Louisa HELLER born 1875 and Amelia HELLER born 1880, all ST GEORGE IN THE EAST, LONDON. Louisa was my Great Grandmother, who married Moses PHILLIPS, Annie married Alexander VELLEMAN and I am in contact with her family. The two I am really interested in is: Amelia HELLER who married Emanuel WITTENBERG a butcher in 1901, my Aunt remembers the family and I have pictures of my Great Great Aunt and her family but contact was lost with any member in around the 1940s. I do know that they had at least 3 daughters, Pauline WITTENBERG, Janie WITTENBERG and Louisa WITTENBERG and my Aunt remembers that one married a Louis MIDDA and she thinks the daughter was called Denise MIDDA. I also have a wedding photo that my Aunt believes was a WITTENBERG. If anyone knows that family or is of the family I would love to hear from them. Annie HELLER married Abraham HART around 1892, LONDON and I know nothing of that family except my Aunt recalls that they were slightly better off and moved away from the East End but can not recall anything else and that may not be right. I know by the 1901 census they had 4 children, Frances HART born 1892, Jane HART born 1894, Napthali HART born 1898 and Leah HART born 1900. If again anyone knows this family or is one of the family I would love to hear from them. I am more interested in going forward, meeting cousins etc. but if it helps I did research the HARTS a little going backwards and found that Abraham HART father was probably Napthali HART whos wife was called Fanny. Thank you for your time spent reading my post Regards Debbie Debbie Bozkurt from the very dry Outer Hebrides (100 year no rain fall record)

Does anyone know of descendants of Leopold Yates who died aged abt 63 on 3 Feb 1904 in Kensington, London as I have his will & letter of administration. He had ten children including Maud widow of Culff aged 25 in 1901, also Isobel or Sybil, and Gladys, Enid and Marcia aged 5,4,2 in 1891. Others were Maurice, Clive, Keith. Sibyl was wife of ... Drake, and Ruby. Wife was Deborah I think nee Alexander. Many of the children were born Australia. Leopold was listed as a Retired Police Magistrate Colony NSW. My gt grandfather was an executor of his estate. I think Deborah might have been second wife, but I am not sure. The names don't sound particularly Jewish but I am pretty sure he was. I want to find someone who is a direct descendant to give the original document to, or if I can't find someone perhaps to the AJHS in Sydney. >From Dinah Harvey in Sydney

Dear All I am trying to find further information about my maternal gm, Dinah TISMAN(nee RUBINSTEIN) who is buried at Enfield Cemetery(Adath Y'srael) - Section D, Row 4, Plot 4 - d.31/10/1941 and of my maternal gf's step sister - Deborah STOOKIN(nee GOLD/STEIN/STONE)d.22/9/1986 who is buried at Waltham Abbey - Section 10, Row B, Plot 42. I'm hoping that their Hebrew names and those of their fathers will help me to further my research about them. If you are aware of these surnames, or are planning to visit either cemetery and are able to take a photo of the stone - or translate it - I would be very grateful. Thanks Naomi Ogin a1steve@bigpond.com Brisbane

>I don't find the ROCKSHAR name in any of the earlier census reports. The actual writing on the census document is hard to read, so it may not even be the correct one.< Try the name ROCKSHIA. Marriages Mar 1910 Rockshia Bessie St. Geo, East 1c 477 Marriages Sep 1924 Rockshia Pauline Kaye Mile End 1c 676 I have this pair on my tree. No further information regarding Pauline's antecedents but I think she is probably the Polly in the 1901 Census. There were no children to this marriage. There are a couple of entries for Paul in the Gazette. He appears to have been a money-lender There may have been more than one Marks Epstein? viz: HO 144/383/B19824 Nationality and Naturalisation: Epstein, Marks, from Russia. Resident in London. Certificate A8693 issued 28 January 1896. Angela Shire

Dear Cousins, I have a possible relative named Marks EPSTEIN, who lived for a while in London. The 1901 census shows him living in Whitechapel [address illegible], with the family of Wolf & Kate ROCKSHAR. Children: Betsy, Emmanuel, Martha, Paul & Polly. All born in Russia except Polly b. c1895 in London. Marks is the brother-in-law (Kate's brother). Cabinet maker. b1858 in Russia. And Michail a cousin b1865 Russia. Marks immigrated to America (Holyoke, Massachusett) in 1904. His father is listed in a document as Henry. From the Boston Ship Arrivals: GOLDMAN, Bertha 24 Dec 1916 age 15 Ship: Phila. From: England Dest: Father: Marks EPSTEIN 237 Park St Holyoke. I don't find the ROCKSHAR name in any of the earlier census reports. The actual writing on the census document is hard to read, so it may not even be the correct one. Best, Steve Orlen Tucson Arizona

In a message dated 6/8/2008 5:40:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, janetangela@googlemail.com writes: "The ISAACS picture is becoming a little clearer but as yet no information on the mystery MYERS (Peter Simon and his father Simon MYERS) who came from Poland!" Angela, I'm wondering if your MYERS is somehow connected to the John MYERS in my wife's family, who also came from Poland--we believe from Suwalki. Do you know where in Poland your Simon MYERS came from? Brian Neil Burg Fullerton, CA (Beautiful weather today) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

Hi Many thanks to all those who have responded to me. The ISAACS picture is becoming a little clearer but as yet no information on the mystery MYERS (Peter Simon and his father Simon MYERS) who came from Poland! I have been wondering what information is contained/available in publications such as the Jewish Chronicle. I would be very interested to learn what others have been able to glean from this. Regards Angela Wilkinson OTLEY, ENGLAND

Dear All My maternal grandfather,Jack TISMAN/TISHMAN(1904-1998)was naturalised in 1948. After being told on numerous occasions by the UK Archives that there were no records for him , I received a Certificate Number a few months ago. Since then I have been trying to find where his File is located with no luck so far. According to their site, A-N surnames for 1934-1948 have already been transferred. I have been liaising with Liverpool and Seacole House. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Naomi Ogin a1steve@bigpond.com Brisbane (ex London)

Dear All My maternal ggf, Solomon/Zelman/Schmyl Woolf TISHMAN son of Moses(1873-1954) m Annie LEBIS(1879-1960) - Hannah Ettel daughter of Yaakov. I am not sure where Solomon or Annie came from. For Solomon there is mention of Lithuania, Kovna/Kaunus, Vilna/Vilnius and Russia. There was also mention that Solomon was in the US at some stage. They lived in Old Montague St, Whitechapel and Ashfield St, E1. Annie lastly lived in Cambridge Heath Road. Their children who used the surname of TISMAN were;- Morris/Bob (b.1900/Russia) m Josie GERTSMAN in 1923 - son Derek m Cynthia WALLER - sons Peter and Andrew Jack/Jacob(b.1904/Russia-d.1998) m Dinah RUBINSTEIN(1909-1941) in 1931,Jubilee St Great Synagogue and lived in Stepney Way, Burross St and 79,Dunsmure Road, Stamford Hill - children Zena & Doreen - Jack's 2nd marriage was to Rachel/Ray BURNS-Rahel daughter of Mordechai(1904-1994). They lived in Dunsmure Rd for many years before moving to Woodburn Close, Hendon Leah(1907-1986) m Morris COHEN - daughters Sylvia, Rita, Brenda & Estelle - 2nd marriage to Morris BRESNARK - they lived in Canada Emma(b.1911) m Ben MYERSON - lived in 79,Dunsmure Road,Stamford Hill and Cricklewood - daughter Margaret(d.) Charlie (b.1913)m Pheobe - son Alan Annie & Solomon 'divorced' - I think by means of a 'GET' only and Solomon 'married' Golda STEIN/STONE/GOLD. Solomon and Golda are buried as TISMAN. Their children were;- Harry(1919-2007)m Doris LEADERMANN(d.2006) - son Bernie Simon/Simmy/Sammy(1920-2005) Golda's own children were;- Deborah/Debbie(d.1986) m Nat STOOKIN(d.1980) - son Alan Barnett m ? Solomon had three known siblings - Mordechai/Max/Marks TISSMAN(1862-1943) who m Elizabeth/Betsy/Biela SUCHERT (1863-1939) in Kovna/Kaunus. Betsy came from Sulwaki and the surname is SHACKETT in the US. They lived in Boundary Passage, Shoreditch and 117,Listria Pk, Stoke Newington. During WW11 Marks lived in Lytham St Annes. Marks was a founding member of North London Progressive whilst Betsy remained frum and attended Beth Hamedresh. Their children were;- Morris(b.1887) m Sarah MORRIS in 1918 - daughter Esther/Essie(1920-2002) m Alec GIRSMAN - daughter Janet. They belonged to Poets Rd Schul in Cannonbury and lived in Finchley. Benjamin(b.1889) immigrated to the US in 1910 and became Bernard TESMAN - m Martha and lived in Philadelphia Albert Israel (b.1904) - lived in the Isle of Wight Leah/Lil(1894-1968) m Ansell FLATEAU/ANSELL(1886-1954) in 1928 - daughters Barbara and Judy who m a GITTER Bloomah/Bea/Biele(b.1892) Rachel/Ray(1896-1968) - lived in Saltdean Emsie/Amelia/Mary m Robin NORTH Solomon's other sister Sarah/Esther TEISMAN m Lazarus BRESNARK(Leyzor Srulevich BROZNYK)in Mile End,1899 and they lived in Pauline Terrace, Whitechapel. Lazarus was a Private in the 9th Siberian Grenadier Regiment in the Lipovetsk Uezd, 2nd District and came from a place sounding like Manuan/Mancuan/Menerin. Their children were;- Morris m Annie KIRSCH in 1924 - children Julius and Leslie - and also married Leah COHEN(nee TISMAN) - they lived in Canada Nat(d.1985) m Rachel - lived at Linthorpe Rd, Stamford Hill - son Lawrence m Wendy BERNARD and two daughters Jennifer and Beryl Ada - daughter Adele Annie m Hymie KOSSANSKY - children Adele(adopted Ada's daughter),Evelyn and Leonard Barney(b.1902) m Freda - children Leslie and Janet The remaining sister - name unknown - married a GREENBERG and went to the US - they had a son called Albert who m Bertha GITTLESON and they lived in NY. Albert's children from that marriage are Byron(b.1928) and Lorraine m Buzz KULIK. If you have a connection to any of these names I'd be pleased to hear from you. Contact me privately if you prefer on a1steve@bigpond.com Thanks Naomi Ogin Brisbane (ex London)

Dear All My paternal ggp's were Rosa DAVIDOVITCH(1878-1948)- Roza daughter of Ezekial Ha Levi and Aaron RABINOVITCH/RABIN(1876-1952) - Raphael Arieh son of Todros Chanoch. They married in Mile End, 1898. Aaron was at one time a Cantor at Dukes Place Schul and also officiated at some of his children's wedding as 'Rev' - the last being held at Heathfield Park Schul. Their last address was Marlow Court in Willesden. There is a possibility that Aaron came from Krakow and Rosa from Riga but this is not proven as yet. There is also mention that Aaron came from a family of Rabbi's. Their children were;- Jack/Jacob m Eve/Eva BENDEL in 1924 - children Basil(b.1925) and Peggy RABIN, Theodore/Ted H(b.1903) m Fay son Michael RABIN m Nina BRILLIANT in around 1958,Phil(b.1904 or 1906) m ?,Ray/Rochy(b.1902 or 1905) m ? - daughter Annette, Lily(b.1913) m Harry GROSSMAN - son Anthony, Eve/Eva(1918-1994) m Sid/Solly KRAMER(1912-2001) - children David and Ruth, Louis/Lou m Marie SONING - sons Martin m Hedy GLASS and Harry & Miriam/Mimi(1900-1985) m Wolfie OGIN(1903-1987)in 1930-son Clive. If you have a connection to any of these surnames I'd be pleased to hear from you. If you prefer, contact me privately on a1steve@bigpond.com Thanks Naomi Ogin Brisbane (ex London) Also searching;BIRK,BRESNARK,COVERMAN,DECORVICK,FELDMAN,GOLD,GREENBERG,KATZ,KOSSA NSKY,LEBIS/LEYBIS,LISEYZNSKI,MANN, MELNICK,NATHAN,POLIAKOFF,RANDALL,RUBE/INSTEIN,STEIN/STONE,TISMAN/TISHMAN/TEI SMAN/WILSON/WOOLFSON - All these surnames were in the East End at some stage

Hello Angela, Sorry for the delay, been busy. Well, we know that Peter Simon MYERS was in UK by 1838 because of the marriage. We can't be sure his father ever came to UK, can we, so the fact he is not on the census could simply be he wasn't here to be enumerated. I have a possible brother for Peter Simon in the form of a Morris MYERS who married sarah FULLER in 1825 at the Great Synagogue (London). Presumably you have already tried searching the National Archives website for any possible naturalisation (I know we have no reason to think Peter Simon (Philip) naturalised but it never hurts to just "check it out" in case). Maybe trying to research Morris MYERS would be a way to go. Either he's not a brother and you can discount him, but if he is then perhaps he will help narrow the POB etc for Peter. Sherry (23170 Viersat, miserable, damp cold France) > > According to the Leeds Burials Peter Simon (Philip) MYERS was buried at Hill > Top Cemetery in 1889 at the age of 78. His wife Charlotte MYERS died in > 1902 at the age of 85. These dates immediately differ from the ones they > give in the censuses - but given what must have been 'great ages' for the > time in which they lived...... > With regard to the MYERS (father Simon and son Peter Simon) I have no clue > as to where or when they arrived from Poland, the name of the town they came > from, or what happened to their wife/mother. Peter Simon's father Simon > MYERS failed to fill in any census form and I have no clues as to whether > there are any other family members. > > I await any thoughts or direction.

Dear All In April, 1932, there was a death notice in the JC for Barnett WILSON(b.1886) husband of Alice nee TOSH/INSKI. Their children mentioned were; Alma who m Ellis BIRK, Betty who m Dr Bertie MANN, Pamela who m a BOYD and Gerald - who was a baby at the time. The address was Walm Lane, NW2. Barnett and his brothers established a company called Wilson Bros Greeting Cards which was sold to Hallmark in the 1980's. The year prior (27/10/31) Barnett's mother, Kreine/Kranee WOOLFSON had passed away. In 1933, two beds were consecrated in the Freemasons Ward of the London Jewish Hospital in honour of Barnett and his mother by Rabbi RABINOVITCH from Cricklewood Synagogue. The notice for Barnett mentions the following names of his brothers; Abraham WOOLFSON, Menelik Rd, NW2, Harry WILSON,Chatsworth Rd,NW2, Sam WOOLFSON, Chatsworth Rd, NW2 and O WOOLFSON, B WOOLFSON, Mrs Esther KANTIN,Clarence Rd,E5, Mrs Dora SINGER,Mare St,Hackney and Mrs Ray GRANVILLE, Holmleigh Rd,Stamford Hill,N16. In 1956, Carol June GRANVILLE-GROSSMAN, only daughter of Mr & Mrs Philip GRANVILLE-GROSSMAN, Bournemouth, was engaged to Norman KIRSCH, son of Mr & Mrs Victor KIRSCH of Stanmore. I believe Mrs Ray GRANVILLE is of the same family. The notice on behalf of Barnett's mother-in-law mentions Hyman, Ben and Leslie TOSH, Mr & Mrs STEINMAN(US),Mr & Mrs GOLDING,Mr & Mrs CALCHMAN,Mr & Mrs SEYNER and Mr & Mrs MUENDE. In the late 1920's, my maternal gm, Dinah TISHMAN nee RUBINSTEIN(1909-1941), was sent over to London by the WOOLFSON family who were cousins. I am trying to establish the circumstance of Dinah's arrival and how the two families are connected. Dinah was based with the WOOLFSON family in Portland Place and was then taken in by her aunt, Rosie MULLISH nee RUBINSTEIN(1894-1955) who was born in Babruysk. Rosie had two brothers living in the East End - Joe/Joseph who m Dora POLIAKOFF/POLIKOFF(d.1924) in 1906 and Nat/Noocham(1889-1944) who was involved with Wilson Bros. The family were particularly close to Harry WILSON and my aunt was named after Kreine WOOLFSON and possibly Dora SINGER if she was also a WOOLFSON. Joe & Dora's children eventually changed their surname to RANDALL. I have clear photo's of the RUBINSTEIN's mentioned should you wish to view them and would be glad to hear from anybody who is connected to any of these names. Should you wish to contact me direct my e mail is a1steve@bigpond.com Thanks Naomi Ogin Brisbane (ex London)

>The answer might be in Angela's wonderful database - a quick check revealed another child of Menachem Isaacs< Thanks for the encomium Sue, but do beware! There were three contemporaneous EMANUEL ISAACS.l with Hebrew name Menachem or Menachem Mendel or Manes At least one was a privileged member of the Great Synagogue, but that distinction is not always made in the entries of their respective children's marriages and the father's Hebrew name is not consistently rendered GSM 092/18 M 1805 [30 Jan] ISAACS Emanuel [Mendele (Privd Member) b. Isaac Aharon] married MAGNUS, Maria GSM 093/28 M 1805 [29 Apr] ISAACS Emanuel [Menachem Mendele b Simon Lemle] married ROBINS, Jane GSM 130/48 M 1810 [11 Jul] ISAACS Emanuel [Manes b. Benjamin Melepehrg, or from Eleperg (?)] married JACOBS, Catherine Angela Shire

Hello to all, A couple of days ago I came across the following notice in "The Examiner", London, 2 March 1834, Issue 1361, Category: birth, death, marriage notices On the 19th inst., at Chatham, Kent, Mrs. Phoebe SOLOMON, mother of Saul Solomon, Esq., of St. Helena, in her 90th year. It would appear the notice was first published in a different paper, then re-published by The Examiner, which would make the 19th inst. the 19th February 1834. The a/m Phoebe SOLOMON is Phoebe DE METZ, wife of Nathaniel SOLOMON, mentioned in the Susser Archives. According to this notice Phoebe was born about 1744/45 which is in line with what is mentioned in the Brown Family Papers. The Susser Archives give Phoebe's year of birth with about 1760 which appears to be her year of marriage because both sources, the Susser Archives and the Brown Family Papers, mention that Phoebe was 14 or 15 years old at the time of her marriage. Phoebe de Metz was my husband's 3rd great-grandmother. Regards, Sigi McMahon

The answer might be in Angela's wonderful database - a quick check revealed another child of Menachem Isaacs. Elias Isaacs married Dorothy Jonas in 1844. You might want to go through the records more carefully to see if you can prove it one way or another. I could not find Elias on the 1851 Census GSM 332/26 1838 [12 Mar] MYERS Peter Simon Fletiel ? Simon ISAACS Charlotte Shana Menachem, Privd. Memb GSMa 031/57 1844 [21 May] ISAACS Elias Eli Menachem JONAS Dorothy Teretsah David HaCohen According to FreeBMD the GRO reference is Jun 1844, London 2 177 Emanuel and Catherine were still living at Fishers Alley in 1851 - the other lead might be Samuel Kegenberg (as indexed sp?), the grandson living with them. With regards to Union St, Bishophsgate - it is now Brushfield St. See http://www.census1891.com/streets-u.htm Fishers Alley was off Sandys Row. I cannot find it on my A to Z but Sandys Row is a block from Brushfield St. So I would start with that family to see if you can prove or disprove that they were the right one. Regards, Susan McPhedran Ontario. From: Angela Wilkinson [mailto:janetangela@googlemail.com] Now to the ISAACS. I have two families headed by an Emanuel ISAACS, the question being which one did Charlotte MYERS nee ISAACS belong to. My starting point is her marriage in the Great Synagogue, Dukes Place, London to Peter Simon MYERS in March 1838. In the Census of 1841 and living at Fishers Alley Emanuel born about 1791 wife Catherine 1796 Benjamin 1821 ELIAS 1826 Hannah 1826 Sarah 1826 Rachael 1829 Maria 1831 Henry 1831 Julia 1834 In the Census of 1841 and living at St Mary Axe Emanuel Isaac(son) 1786 (the addition of 'son' being a transcription error) wife Maria (nee Magnus - Census 1851) 1796 Esther 1819 Joseph 1821 Caroline 1823 Whilst the Census of 1841 was just three years after Peter Simon and Charlotte's marriage, neither address is the ones on the Marriage Certificate of No 1 Union Street, Bishopsgate Street, or her spouses address of 4 Grove Street, Commercial Road.