ADMIN Please forgive me - on my previous email I completely forgot to snip - it's probably because of the heat ........... Angie Israel   Searching: RAYKH-ZELIGMAN/RICHMAN, Stakliskes, Lithuania/Leeds COHEN, Sakiai, Lithuania/Leeds MAGIDOWITZ, Jurbarkas, Lithuania/Leeds KASSIMOFF, Rezekne, Latvia/Leeds ----- Original Message ---- From: Angie Elfassi <aelfassi51@yahoo.com> To: british-jewry@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:26:41 PM Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Birth certificate Fanny Eva SAMUEL/S Am having computer problems and so can only see my emails courtesy of friends ......... therefore am replying now.

Am having computer problems and so can only see my emails courtesy of friends ......... therefore am replying now. My brother-in-law is "Barnett" and they came from London  and previously Ukraine (if my memory serves me well). Any connection? Regards Angie very  very very hot Israel (39 deg)   Searching: RAYKH-ZELIGMAN/RICHMAN, Stakliskes, Lithuania/Leeds COHEN, Sakiai, Lithuania/Leeds MAGIDOWITZ, Jurbarkas, Lithuania/Leeds KASSIMOFF, Rezekne, Latvia/Leeds ----- Original Message ---- From: Ludij Peden <ludij@ludijpeden.com.au> To: british-jewry@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 5:16:42 AM Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Birth certificate Fanny Eva SAMUEL/S Hi Naomi, Just new to this. Did your Barnett name originate from Gabriel Barnett in the UK ? He was my husband's 2 times great grandfather and I'm trying to find out more. Have found his marriage to Phoebe Jacobs and his death in London, and various census info but am trying to find his birth and parents. Any suggestions ?? Are there any other Barnetts out there ??? Thanks, Ludij Peden Cairns, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: british-jewry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:british-jewry-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Merv & Naomi Barnett Sent: Saturday, 14 June 2008 4:44 PM To: British Jewry Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Birth certificate Fanny Eva SAMUEL/S Hello Listers Perhaps someone can help me solve a long-standing question. I am trying to verify a time of arrival in England for an ancestor Heinrich (aka Henry) SAMUEL/S.  Heinrich was born around 1817 in Germany.  He married (date of marriage not known) a Chanah (aka Hanna/Hannah)SCHELINSKI , born 1834.  They emigrated to England but we don't know if it was before or after marriage.  Their eldest child, Fanny Eva SAMUEL/S was born in 1852.  I am trying to obtain a birth certificate for Fanny Eva.  They went on to have 4 more children Louis (1854), Joseph (1861), Leah (1863) and Rachel (1867). We have all the information about the marriages etc of Fanny Eva and all her siblings but determining where and when Fanny Eva was born would be marvellous. Fanny Eva married Abraham Rose in the Hambro Synagogue in 1872 and we have the ketubah. Any suggestions?  I wondered if the book recently published by Harold Pollins might have this birth registered. Many thanks Naomi Barnett Melbourne, Australia Our website is at www.british-jewry.org.uk We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Our website is at www.british-jewry.org.uk We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Naomi, Oops sorry, yes, I have them in a mountain of emailos to answer...been a really hectic week. As I have no "off the top of my head" answer I need to have a bit of a delve, which I have not had time to do, this week. Will be in touch ASAP. Sherry (Salford, LAN and a bit stressed) I'm not sure if you received my 2 emails sent a day or so ago to your google address re New Briggate and Elswick. Can resend if you haven't sighted them.

Sherry I'm not sure if you received my 2 emails sent a day or so ago to your google address re New Briggate and Elswick. Can resend if you haven't sighted them. Naomi

Naomi, I don't know if this is any help but I searched FreeBMD and found the marriages below. If you then look in 1901 for the grooms, you can usually pair the brides up. If you check the brides you might find someone of the right age and POB who might be Jetty/Yetta. HTH Sherry (Salford, LAN) Marriages Dec 1895 Cziransky Sarah Mile End 1c 944 Epstein Hyman Mile End 1c 944 Rosenberg Harris Mile End 1c 944 Shkolnick Sarah Mile End 1c 944 Marriages Dec 1898 CZERNUSKY Mary Mile End 1c 931 Feldman Sophie Mile End 1c 931 Garnosky Mary Mile End 1c 931 GOPSTEIN Jacob Mile End 1c 931 Katz Sam Mile End 1c 931 Levitt Rebecca Mile End 1c 931 Marriages Jun 1895 Alexander John Mile End 1c 866 Garlett Moses Davis Mile End 1c 866 Morris Sarah Mile End 1c 866 Szewachowitz Yetta Mile End 1c 866 Marriages Sep 1900 Gollan Fanny Mile End 1c 813 Gollon Fanny Mile End 1c 813 Holipat Hyman Mile End 1c 813 Sinai Yetta Mile End 1c 813 Slavonsky Yetta Mile End 1c 813 Zettlin E__el Mile End 1c 813 On 19/06/2008, a1steve's rubbish removals <a1steve@bigpond.com> wrote: > Dear All > In the 1891 census under a listing for my gguncle, there is a name of Jetty > CHERNOSKY - aged 24 - cap maker - born in Poland(c.1867) - sister.

Dear All In the 1891 census under a listing for my gguncle, there is a name of Jetty CHERNOSKY - aged 24 - cap maker - born in Poland(c.1867) - sister. The address was 31 Church Street, Bethnal Green North. My uncle's name was listed as Marks TISHMAN(1862-1943) born Russia - his wife was listed as Fanny born Poland - however, she was actually known as Betsy/Biela/Elizabeth(1863-1939)and her maiden name was SUCHERT a.k.a SHACKETT - her mother was SCHANOWITZ. Betsy was born in Sulwaki and married Marks in Kovna/Kaunus. In the 1901 census it states they were both born in Russia and living at 1 Boundary Passage, Shoreditch with their surname listed as TESSMAN. There is no mention of Jetty. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who is searching the CHERNOSKY(sp) surname - the 1891 census info implies she was possibly Betsy's sister because of the mention of Poland, but then I suppose she could also be Marks sister! Thanks Naomi Ogin Brisbane Searching: BENDEL, BIRK, BRESNARK, BRILLIANT, COVERMAN, DAVIDOVITCH, DECORVICK, FELDMAN, GLASS, GREENBERG, GOLD, GROSSMAN, KATZ, KRAMER, KOSSANSKY, LEBIS, LISEYZNSKI, MANN, MELNICK, NATHAN, OGIN, POLIAKOFF, RABIN/OVITCH, RANDALL, RUBE/INSTEIN, STEIN/STONE, TISMAN/TISHMAN/TIESMAN/TESMAN, WILSON/WOOLFSON

With pleasrue angie. I am having the forms sent as Im ot very good at filling things in on the net at the moment. My husband has just had an op and Im a bit up tight . Yes. I athought that once i get the info it can be compred with other Gilbergs or Gelbergs and see if they are related. with best wishes, louise Original Message ----- From: "Angie Elfassi" <aelfassi51@yahoo.com> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Naturalisation > Louise - when you get the documents, please share - I have a GELBERG on > the tree (I think you and I have discussed this before) and they were from > Austria/Poland. > > Regards > Angie > Israel > > Searching: > RAYKH-ZELIGMAN/RICHMAN, Stakliskes, Lithuania/Leeds > COHEN, Sakiai, Lithuania/Leeds > MAGIDOWITZ, Jurbarkas, Lithuania/Leeds > KASSIMOFF, Rezekne, Latvia/Leeds > > --- On Tue, 6/17/08, Alfred and Louise <alfredlouise@btinternet.com> > wrote: > > From: Alfred and Louise <alfredlouise@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Naturalisation > The problem is > that sometimes he is on record as a Gilberg or a Gelbberg or a Gelberg . > (There have even been times when my eye caught by chance a Gelbart in the > copper plated books that used to be heaved up from the Family Records > Office. Then some censuses say he is from Austria, others from Poland and > one from Russia. I suppose it depended on who won the plebiscite at the > time. > > > > Our website is at > www.british-jewry.org.uk > We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. > > British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1506 - Release Date: 17/06/2008 > 16:30 > >

I believe DOROT like Jewishgen automatically bars the information concerning living people. Jackye Sullins > . It is all of the descendents alive today. What do you think of the > idea. > It must be converted to GEDCOM format. > > As I am still working on it and worried about privacy of those lviing. is > it a good idea? > Best wishes, Louise

Louise - when you get the documents, please share - I have a GELBERG on the tree (I think you and I have discussed this before) and they were from Austria/Poland. Regards Angie Israel Searching: RAYKH-ZELIGMAN/RICHMAN, Stakliskes, Lithuania/Leeds COHEN, Sakiai, Lithuania/Leeds MAGIDOWITZ, Jurbarkas, Lithuania/Leeds KASSIMOFF, Rezekne, Latvia/Leeds --- On Tue, 6/17/08, Alfred and Louise <alfredlouise@btinternet.com> wrote: From: Alfred and Louise <alfredlouise@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Naturalisation The problem is that sometimes he is on record as a Gilberg or a Gelbberg or a Gelberg . (There have even been times when my eye caught by chance a Gelbart in the copper plated books that used to be heaved up from the Family Records Office. Then some censuses say he is from Austria, others from Poland and one from Russia. I suppose it depended on who won the plebiscite at the time.

To all the very kind listers who took the trouble of responding to my enquiry - thank you. I feel the consensus is correct in that she was born in ???? and came to England with her parents. I will have to look elsewhere. Naomi Barnett Melbourne, Australia

Hi Louise (and others) Try http://www.raynorshyn.com/gedclean/ which is a link to a programme called gedclean which you use on your gedcom. It'll delete all living people from that gedcom so that you can safely post it to the internet. There are two versions here, I am referring you to the free one and have to say I have never used it-I used gedprivy which doesn't seem to be available any longer. The only other way is to contact all the people in the tree and ask them for their express permission to post the tree on-line. You can be sure that they won't all agree and you'll have to mess about removing people manually. HTH Sherry (in Salford, LAN) On 17/06/2008, Alfred and Louise <alfredlouise@btinternet.com> wrote: > It must be converted to GEDCOM format. > > As I am still working on it and worried about privacy of those lviing. is it a good idea?

A further thought. If you already know the certificate number from the background papers and can match it with the correct HO 334 piece number in TNA's online catalogue, you could try ordering a duplicate from Kew via Digital Express. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ I can probably help you (off list) with the online catalogue if needed, but I have no personal experience of ordering online from this particular series. Elly 2008/6/17 Elly Smith <elly99uk@googlemail.com>: > Duplicate copies of certificates issued after 1870 are > held at Kew in the class HO 334. Unfortunately you can't order online, > as they are catalogued by certificate number and aren't > surname-indexed online > 2008/6/16 Clinton Davis <clinton.304@blueyonder.co.uk>: > >> What I would like to know ...... would he have been given some sort of >> actual certificate; and if he was & it was lost long long ago then would it >> be possible to get a copy of the original. >

A certificate was sent to each applicant when naturalisation was granted, and the Home Office background papers normally note the date it was sent. Duplicate copies of certificates issued after 1870 are held at Kew in the class HO 334. Unfortunately you can't order online, as they are catalogued by certificate number and aren't surname-indexed online, though there are some paper name-indices at Kew. A certificate would normally contain only a summary of what you already have in the background papers. Elly 2008/6/16 Clinton Davis <clinton.304@blueyonder.co.uk>: > What I would like to know ...... would he have been given some sort of > actual certificate; and if he was & it was lost long long ago then would it > be possible to get a copy of the original.

Dear Ann Jenson, I wrote a general letter explaining why I have so many books u p a ladder. Fascinating and sad. I am sorry your Uncle Richard's prayer book is not up there , but we do have a Tallit , somewhere, given to my husband by a Mr. Howard Warner, about thirty years ago. With best wishes, Louise ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mrs Mansefield" <annjen@ozemail.com.au> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:36 PM Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Louise prayer book >

Thank you Angela for the idea to contact Petra. I will. I know these were books that were given to my parents by a friend. Why do I have so many books up on the top shelves of my corridor wide book shelf upstairs? Because my husband was orphaned by the holocaust and the only material thing he inherited or was given by relatives were old Jewish books. We still have a good library of other Jewish books that are used daily, and to which we have added, but these are worn, often in German and duplicates of everything we have. I still have to find someone to advise me on them I have learnt so much about family from some of them. One gave all the names of my husband's grandmother's family and an old English bible of my parents , came from my great grandmother with lists of all the tiny babies born and died within a few days. Comparing the;hem to the official records, someone had the wrong dates ! My granddaughter in Washington is going to be Batmitzvah at 12 in October and she is doing a research and presentation about her great grandmother Ketty Goldschmidt who perished in Auschwitz Her mother has collected memorabilia and yesterday, to my delight I found , on my top shelf, a very tiny Haggadah which belonged to Ketty when she was 8 years old. So that will go into the presentation. the climb was worth it, just for that alone I have also found thrugh the machzorim ( Festival prayers books) that I inherited from my great Aunt, elizbaeth and Rachel Hart, exactly where they lived,not many streets away from where I live now. So gelalogically speaking, a climb up a ladder is always worth while. With many thanks again to everyone for their suggestions, Louise ----- Original Message ----- From: <Angellza@aol.com> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:39 AM Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Jewish Prayer Books MONTAGUE > The roots of some of these families can be found in Petra Laidlaw's 1851 > project > > ie: Subject ID 10573 = Helena Davis daughter of David Davis - she is > born > c 1840 in Glasgow. > > an email to Petra would allow her give you the contact details of the > submitter of these persons or, if they have required anonymity, to > contact them > herself. Surely they will be delighted to hear of such a personal > record. > > Please go back to your attic Louise and see what else is up there - but > be > careful on the ladder and take a mobile phone with you! > Regards > Angela Shire > > > > > > Our website is at > www.british-jewry.org.uk > We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. > > British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1503 - Release Date: 14/06/2008 > 18:02 > >

Dear Listers, I received an e-mail from cousins suggesting that we place our family tree dating back to 1700 at the Douglas E Goldman Jewish Genealogy Center in the Museum of the Jewish People in Israel. . It is all of the descendents alive today. What do you think of the idea. It must be converted to GEDCOM format. As I am still working on it and worried about privacy of those lviing. is it a good idea? Best wishes, Louise -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1503 - Release Date: 14/06/2008 18:02

I would like to know why/how Louise has so many prayer books at the top of her ladder. I would love to find the prayer book of my g-uncle Richard Warner which he gave to the journalist Chance Newton in 1912....is it up there? Ann Jensen Music Halls

Women can naturalise now, of course, but regarding our ancestors: women were naturalised with their husbands along with any minor children (even if the children were born in UK and technically were already British you often see them listed). Best wishes Sherry (Salford, LAN) On 16/06/2008, Clinton Davis <clinton.304@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > > Then I can move on to his wife - but I don't think it was thought necessary > for the women to naturalise.

The roots of some of these families can be found in Petra Laidlaw's 1851 project ie: Subject ID 10573 = Helena Davis daughter of David Davis - she is born c 1840 in Glasgow. an email to Petra would allow her give you the contact details of the submitter of these persons or, if they have required anonymity, to contact them herself. Surely they will be delighted to hear of such a personal record. Please go back to your attic Louise and see what else is up there - but be careful on the ladder and take a mobile phone with you! Regards Angela Shire

Hi Folks After a great deal of help my gt gf's naturalization papers were found at Kew. Not under Ockenofsky; variations of which were used for his children's birth certs BUT Afkansky. 'Spose it must sound similar in a broad xxxxx accent - don't know what he would have had - his home area having been Russia, Germany, Lithuania & Poland at various times Anyway I've got copies of the various documents etc submitted by the various people concerned from Kew records office. What I would like to know ...... would he have been given some sort of actual certificate; and if he was & it was lost long long ago then would it be possible to get a copy of the original. That would complete one little corner of my family history. Then I can move on to his wife - but I don't think it was thought necessary for the women to naturalise. Any advice & comment appreciated. Clinton Davies Birmingham, UK