Thank you all for the information so far. Julia Haines was born about 1829 and I have her in 1851 with her family at 3 Lions Place or Paddock. Her father is John Haines a journeyman hatter from Strood and she has an older brother frederick (who later appears in Liverpool living with Samuel and Julia) and a younger sister Martha who like Julia is a milliner (ref HO/107/1951).  I have Julia's mother as being called Harriet.  I gave you the wrong date for the marriagewhich took place in Liverpool at St Phillip's church on 24th August 1855, Julia gives her father as John Haines, Hatter and Samuel gives his father as John Burt Weaver, sorry not sure where i got carpenter from. neither father is listed a deceased so presumably both are still alive. the witnesses are Mr & Mrs Maddocks and both bride and groom give their address as 27 Heath Street Liverpool.  both signed their names. and were bachelor and spinster.  given this marriage in Liverpool I find it interesting that the eldest two children are baptised in Bristol.  I wonder if Sameul went to sea.   I have the Haines family in the 1841 census in bristol st Mary Radcliffe (HO/107/373/3) when John's occupation is listed as porter and they are living in what looks like Lambfirst.  I don't know as much as I would like about the Bristol area despite having people in my tree from this fine city too.  Julia and Samuel are the gg grandparents of my partner, their son John Edwin  who was bornin Liverpool in 1870 was the father of my partner's paternal grandmother.  His family knows nothing of the Burt family and were not even aware that they had come from somerset being firmly of the belief that the family had always been from the Merseyside area.   Samuel Burt I can find no census mention for before 1871 in 1861 his wife Julia and 4 children are all living in Liverpool and she is working to support them  I have wondered if the Burt's were actually scottish as weaving was very popular up there as is the name Burt!  so I am completely floundering over Samuel.  when he does appear he gives his place of birth as Bristol Somerset. (ref RG10/3782)  I may have found him listed as Samuel Birch in 1851 in Yorkshire but that is the only other mention of him before 1871.   thanks for all help received Elaine Westaway ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2012, 23:15 Subject: BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET Digest, Vol 7, Issue 242 Today's Topics:   1. Re: BURT marriage (bernice pegler)   2. BIRT (sic) baptism, St. James, Bristol,    1809 (was BURT       marriage) (Josephine Jeremiah)   3. Re: Testing (john king)   4. Re: Testing (Mike Gould) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 18:47:21 +0100 From: "bernice pegler" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [B&S] BURT marriage To: "elaine westaway" <[email protected]>,     <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original Elaine A John Burt married Hester Player at St Paul, Bristol on 28.8.1808. Bernice From: "elaine westaway" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [B&S] BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET Digest, Vol 7, Issue 238 I am looking for info on Sameul Burt. he was born in Bristol in 1826 and married to Julia Haynes in Liverpool in 1870. Julia was the daughter of a sailor from Strood in Gloucestershire. Samuel gives his father's name as John Burt carpenter and his own profession as cabinet maker. I cannot find any information of Sameul prior to 1851 or on his father. anyhelp on the Burt and the Haynes family much welcomed and Iwould love to know why they went to Liverpool, they remained on Merseyside and had a family there. thanks Elaine Westaway ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2012, 8:02 Subject: BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET Digest, Vol 7, Issue 238 Today's Topics:   1. Bristol Pound officially launched across city -- article in The Post (Josephine Jeremiah)   2. Manorial Documents Register -- National Archives (Josephine Jeremiah)   3. Re: Lesson learnt (klausdach)   4. Re: Thoughts on these Chewton FLOWERs would be appreciated (Mike Matthews)   5. Re: Lesson learnt (Edie)   6. Re: Lesson learnt ([email protected]) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:28:26 +0100 From: "Josephine Jeremiah" <[email protected]> Subject: [B&S] Bristol Pound officially launched across city -- article in The Post To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes Hi Listers, Today will go down in history as the day that the Bristol Pound was launched. There's an article in The Post: Bristol Pound officially launched across city http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Bristol-Pound-officially-launched-city/story-16934165-detail/story.html Josephine ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:45:35 +0100 From: "Josephine Jeremiah" <[email protected]> Subject: [B&S] Manorial Documents Register -- National Archives To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes Hi Listers, The Manorial Documents Register in the National Archives may be of interest to listers who haven't heard of it before: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/mdr/ Using the advanced search http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/mdr/searches/advancedsearch.asp I've just searched for Bitton in Gloucestershire and found a number of references. Josephine ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:50:27 +1000 From: "klausdach" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [B&S] Lesson learnt To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original You are all confirming what I know and have proved.  There are at least 7 Family Lists on Ancestry pertaining to my family and all have it incorrect. There is a mistranscription between the Parish Records and the Bishops Transcripts giving a different Bride, same date. Phillimores Marriage Records for the Parish Church and another for the Local Church also differ but then the entry on the Phillimores Directories on line notes the incorrect entry giving both Brides.  I have obtained all the original entries, Banns, Marriage, Baptism of their children entries so believe I have the correct information so I can only presume they have either all followed one another or not confirmed their information.  Patricia G. in Melbourne. > Dear List, > Last year we joined ancestry and duly added all my information on my > family from Midsomer Norton.Now I am usually really pedantic about my > research and check and double check and follow up with certificates where > I can.I didn't have much on my GGrandfathers brother Richard but a hint > got me in contact with a lady who was related to him which made me very > excited.For 2 years we have been corresponding and I didn't recheck what > was given to me .Now my new cousin has informed me that at last she has > sent for her GGGrandfathers marriage certificate and instead of Richard > being his father she has discovered it was a James,therefore throwing all > the information I have out the window.Maybe somewhere down the track we > may find a connection and have decided to stay in contact as "adopted > cousins" but this has taught me a big lesson,ie even when all appears > right please don't take it as gospel.You still need to check it all > yourself and follow up with certificates etc where you can.. > I started this email to ask for a lookup but will do so in another email. > Regards Elaine Skehan, > Victoria,Australia. > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 9.0.0.888, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20620) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:39:22 +0100 From: "Mike Matthews" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [B&S] Thoughts on these Chewton FLOWERs would be appreciated To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAA[email protected]boddyparts.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Andy Thanks for your message. I have commissioned bits and pieces of research work with the CM registers in an effort to solve the mystery, but without much luck. It would appear that John and Elizabeth did not marry in Chewton. Emborough burials are alleged to have ceased before John died in the 1840s, which makes the reference on the CM memorial that he was "interred at Emborough" rather confusing. However I believe some later burials did actually take place in Emborough and records for these are still kept at CM church. As yet I haven't established whether this is indeed correct or, if this is the case, how I can access them. Best wishes Mike -----Original Message----- From: Andy Phillips [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 18 September 2012 16:34 To: [email protected]; Mike Matthews Subject: Re: [B&S] Thoughts on these Chewton FLOWERs would be appreciated Hi Mike, The Chewton Mendip registers are still being transcribed for FreeReg, ChewtonHundred and Somerset OPC. Currently baptisms and burials are up to 1812 and marriages to 1753. You might find it useful to conact the Chewton Mendip OPC (who is also the transcriber). He is Steve Bumstead who's email address can be found at http://wsom-opc.org.uk/index.php?id=39&k=272. Andy, FreeReg Area Assistant for Somerset and Chewton Hundred Moderator ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Matthews" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 2:47 PM Subject: [B&S] Thoughts on these Chewton FLOWERs would be appreciated > Dear all, > > > > I am descended from Mary FLOWER, baptised in Chewton Mendip, Somerset in > 1823. She was the daughter of John and Elizabeth FLOWER, and I have had > great difficulty identifying them. > > > > The 1841 census shows the family living in Nedge, John aged 35 and > Elizabeth > aged 30. However these ages are clearly rounded down as their first > child, > Eliza, was born in 1819 and it's therefore more likely that they were both > born c.1795-1800. > > > > John died before 1851, so all I know about him is that he was born in > Somerset. Elizabeth lived into the 1880s and later censuses show her > birthplace as Chewton Mendip, around 1799. > > > > John and Elizabeth's children were: Eliza (1819), James (1821), Mary > (1823), > William (1826), George (1828), Edwin (1831) and Ann (1834). > > > > I have found no trace of their marriage on FreeReg or the IGI, though I > realise that not all Somerset marriages are on these sites as yet. > > > > I have found a marriage for John Flower and Elizabeth Flower in St > Nicholas, > Bristol in 1816, which is tantalising. Only one John and Elizabeth Flower > were living in Bristol (Shirehampton) in 1841, and later census records > indicate that this John would've been too young to marry in 1816. So > maybe > the St Nicholas couple were my ancestors? The only drawback with this > theory is that there is no trace of a baptism for Elizabeth Flower in > Chewton c. 1800. > > > > John's origins are also a mystery. His gravestone indicates that he was > interred in Emborough, which perhaps indicates a family connection to this > parish, and indeed a John Flower was baptised in Emborough in 1798, son of > George and Betty. However, an old family tree I have seen shows George > and > Betty with a son called George born just 8 months before John was > baptised, > and I have a feeling that George and John were the same person, i.e. he > was > baptised John but later renamed George. This tree was compiled by a > descendant of George, and while no sources are provided I suspect George's > birth date might come from a family bible. > > > > There was also a John baptised in Chewton in 1797, but he corresponds with > the burial of a John Flower in Chewton in 1820, aged 22. > > > > No wills seem to be available to provide any further clues. > > > > John and Elizabeth's daughter Ann married a man from Timsbury, and I know > that a lot of Flowers lived there. So perhaps my John came from there > originally. A John Flower was baptised in Timsbury in 1805, son of Josiah > and Ann, but unless he was baptised when several years old, he would be > too > young to be my John. > > > > Another point worth noting is that John and Elizabeth's daughter Mary > married Thomas CURTIS, and they named their second son Henry, which was > not > a name used greatly by the Curtis family. They could've just chosen the > name on a whim, or it could be a significant name in the Flower family. > > > > I have a feeling that I'll never find a marriage for John and Elizabeth, > or > find out where they came from, but any thoughts or suggestions would be > most > welcome. > > > > Regards > > > > Mike > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:50:22 +1000 From: "Edie" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [B&S] Lesson learnt To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Maybe the more correct of the two between Parish Registers and Bishops transcript, would be the Parish Registers. Did you check the Banns as well should correspond with the Parish register, or License whichever way it went. I understand the Bishops transcripts could have been copied anytime up to a month after the event. Edie ----- Original Message ----- From: "klausdach" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [B&S] Lesson learnt > You are all confirming what I know and have proved.  There are at least 7 > Family Lists on Ancestry pertaining to my family and all have it > incorrect. > There is a mistranscription between the Parish Records and the Bishops > Transcripts giving a different Bride, same date. Phillimores Marriage > Records for the Parish Church and another for the Local Church also differ > but then the entry on the Phillimores Directories on line notes the > incorrect entry giving both Brides.  I have obtained all the original > entries, Banns, Marriage, Baptism of their children entries so believe I > have the correct information so I can only presume they have either all > followed one another or not confirmed their information.  Patricia G. > in Melbourne. > > >> Dear List, >> Last year we joined ancestry and duly added all my information on my >> family from Midsomer Norton.Now I am usually really pedantic about my >> research and check and double check and follow up with certificates where >> I can.I didn't have much on my GGrandfathers brother Richard but a hint >> got me in contact with a lady who was related to him which made me very >> excited.For 2 years we have been corresponding and I didn't recheck what >> was given to me .Now my new cousin has informed me that at last she has >> sent for her GGGrandfathers marriage certificate and instead of Richard >> being his father she has discovered it was a James,therefore throwing all >> the information I have out the window.Maybe somewhere down the track we >> may find a connection and have decided to stay in contact as "adopted >> cousins" but this has taught me a big lesson,ie even when all appears >> right please don't take it as gospel.You still need to check it all >> yourself and follow up with certificates etc where you can.. >> I started this email to ask for a lookup but will do so in another email. >> Regards Elaine Skehan, >> Victoria,Australia. >> >> >> >> ======= >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> (Email Guard: 9.0.0.888, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20620) >> http://www.pctools.com/ >> ======= >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 06:57:41 +0100 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [B&S] Lesson learnt To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From:  "Edie" <[email protected]> > Maybe the more correct of the two between Parish Registers and Bishops > transcript, would be the Parish Registers. Did you check the Banns > as well should correspond with the Parish register, or License whichever > way > it went. I understand the Bishops transcripts could have been copied > anytime up to a month after the event. < > Edie Sometimes a year after the event! Particularly when some clerics were bone idle and didn't get round to doing the BTs until they suddenly realised the Bishop or the Archdeacon would be chasing them up and panicked. Or if they were really lazy they'd get the curate or parish clerk to do it, which is why it is always worth checking both the registers and the BTs if you possibly can because sometimes they don't agree with one another. I have a classic example in my Yorkshire researches in Scarborough where the IGI, which had been extracted from the BTs, showed my great-great-grandfather as being 18 at marriage and his wife 20. In fact, when I went to check the registers it transpired that the nought in 20 was actually a 6, so my great-great-grandmother was actually 26 and some 8 years older than her "toy boy" husband and not two years older. A good friend of mine, Colin Blanshard Withers, another well-known Yorkshire genealogist, cites a case where the incumbent used to scribble out the details of baptisms, marriages and burials on the backs of old envelopes, sugar bags and the like and then once a year he'd write them out properly and send them to the Bishop, presumably storing the envelopes and sugar bags in a drawer as the original registers! -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------ To contact the BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET Digest, Vol 7, Issue 238 **************************************************** ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 19:41:51 +0100 From: "Josephine Jeremiah" <[email protected]> Subject: [B&S] BIRT (sic) baptism, St. James, Bristol,    1809 (was BURT     marriage) To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;     delsp=yes On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 13:19:50 +0100, elaine westaway <[email protected]> wrote: > I am looking for info on Sameul Burt. he was born in Bristol in 1826 and  > married to Julia Haynes in Liverpool in 1870. Julia was the daughter of  > a sailor from Strood in Gloucestershire. Samuel gives his father's name  > as John Burt carpenter and his own profession as cabinet maker. On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 18:47:21 +0100, bernice pegler <[email protected]> wrote: > A John Burt married Hester Player at St Paul, Bristol on 28.8.1808. Hi Elaine, Following on from the marriage Bernice has found, here's a likely baptism  for a son baptized the next year. John Player BIRT (sic), son of John and Hester, was baptized on 19th.  November 1809 at the church of St. James, Bristol. Josephine ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 21:17:09 +0100 From: "john king" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [B&S] Testing To: "Polly Rubery" <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original Hi Polly, Thanks for the welcome. Have also received a digest. Will have to get used to the new systems. Will come back shortly with my current research details. Have had considerable success on several lines but a brick wall on my mother's family, the Parkers of Wrington Regards,  John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polly Rubery" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [B&S] Testing > Hi John > > You are! And Welcome back! > Polly > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john king" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 5:33 PM > Subject: [B&S] Testing > > > Am attempting to rejoin after a five year gap but am get ing lost in the > new > registration requirements/jargon. This is jjust to check whether I am in > touch or not. > > John King > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 23:13:44 +0100 From: "Mike Gould" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [B&S] Testing To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" Hi John, Hi John, You can still subscribe in List mode, if that's what you prefer.  You will need to unsubscribe from Digest mode and then subscribe to List mode. See http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/ENG/Bristol_and_Somerset.html Best wishes, Mike Gould -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of john king Sent: 20 September 2012 21:17 To: Polly Rubery Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [B&S] Testing Hi Polly, Thanks for the welcome. Have also received a digest. Will have to get used to the new systems. Will come back shortly with my current research details. Have had considerable success on several lines but a brick wall on my mother's family, the Parkers of Wrington Regards,  John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polly Rubery" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [B&S] Testing > Hi John > > You are! And Welcome back! > Polly > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john king" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 5:33 PM > Subject: [B&S] Testing > > > Am attempting to rejoin after a five year gap but am get ing lost in the > new > registration requirements/jargon. This is jjust to check whether I am in > touch or not. > > John King > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ To contact the BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET Digest, Vol 7, Issue 242 ****************************************************

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 14:02:19 +0100, elaine westaway <[email protected]> wrote: > I gave you the wrong date for the marriagewhich took place in Liverpool > at St Phillip's church on24th August 1855, Julia gives her father as > John Haines, Hatter and Samuel gives his father asJohn Burt Weaver, > sorry not sure where i got carpenter from. Hi Elaine, As John BURT, the father, was recorded as weaver this ties in with the 1825 baptism I found for Samuel BURT and the baptisms for other children of John and Hester BURT where the father's occupation was recorded as sail-cloth weaver or weaver. > I have wondered if the Burt's were actually scottish as weaving was very > popular up there as is thename Burt! Bristol was known for its cloth industry in medieval times. Temple Church had a Weavers' Chapel and there was a Weavers' Hall in Temple Street. There were people with the surname BURT or BERT among the inhabitants of Bristol in 1696. So perhaps the BURT family had lived in Bristol for generations. Among wills in the probate registry at Bristol 1572-1792 are those of William BURT 1601, Anne BURT 1609 and John BURT 1762. Josephine

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 14:02:19 +0100, elaine westaway <[email protected]> wrote: > Samuel Burt I can find no census mention for before 1871 in 1861 his > wife Julia and 4 children are all living in Liverpool and she is working > to support them I have wondered if the Burt's were actually scottish as > weaving was very popular up there as is the name Burt! so I am > completely floundering over Samuel. when he does appear he gives his > place of birth as Bristol Somerset. (ref RG10/3782) I may have found > him listed as Samuel Birch in 1851 in Yorkshire but that is the only > other mention of him before 1871. Hi Elaine. Don't forget Bernice's sighting of the BURT family in the 1841 Bristol census: On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:13:03 +0100, bernice pegler <[email protected]> wrote: > On the 1841 census for Castle Green, Castle Precincts, Bristol, Samuel is > shown as age 17 a cabinet maker the son of John Burt age 55 , > Independent, > and Hester age 50??. All born in the county of Gloucestershire. George Pryce described the area of Castle Precincts in his 'History of Bristol', which was published in 1861. 'THE CASTLE PRECINCTS embrace the space which lies between the parishes of St. Philip and Jacob on the east, and that of St. Peter on the west; the river Frome on the north, and the waters of the Avon on the south. Within these boundaries once stood (as the name implies) the Castle of Bristol; the site of which is now occupied by modern streets, having some allusion, by name, to the great feudal fortress. With the exception of two chapels situated in Castle Green, one in Lower Castle Street, and a new school, recently erected at its western extremity, for St. Peter's parish, there is nothing of a public character in this district to be described in these pages.' Josephine