Hi Edna, I have just caught up on this, yes if is true that much of the WWI records were destroyed int he Blitz in WWII. However, I can confirm that it you are very lucky and your great grandfather applied for his pension, the records might be at the National Archives in London. Unfortunately, it's a matter of hiring a researcher or getting a friend to visit in person. I note you can obtain a copy of his Medal Card online via the website (Online Records) I can confirm that RASC was in France as my great grandfather James Wm Denning (also born Bristol 1875) had served in the same Corps by the time he left the Army. Your ancestor was also an older man - had he served before? My great grandfather was an 'Old Contemptible' i.e a professional solder from age 17, and despite his age he was sent to France, after a stint in Whitewater Barracks on the Isle of Wight where I assume he may have been helping to train younger men. He re-enlisted in the Welsh Regiment in 1914, but because he was a miner he did not serve until 1915, his records show he served with quite a few Regiments before ending his service in the Labour Corps. He was injured and sent back to Bristol Royal Infirmary, then back to Front after his recovery. It's a thought that both Bristolians might have met and talked of home. I was lucky, in 1920 he applied for a pension and I have his Service Record. I believe the records were sent as part of the application, which means there is a chance they escaped the Blitz (being kept by the Pensions Dept). Mind you, if he applied after 1920, the 100 year rule may apply. James was also one of the lucky ones, returning to his home in the Rhondda where he lived until he was in his 70's. Sadly, his son, playing with his medals sometime after the war lost them. I'd love to track then down. Lisa ----- Original message ----- From: bristol_and_somerset-request@rootsweb.com To: bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com Subject: BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:13:38 -0700 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Edward Milward SEEDE PARKER [1909 International Genealogical Directory] (JHWM1) 2. Edwin Thomas Blake 1873-1930 Army Pension Records (liverpud) 3. Fifty years ago today... The Beatles at Bristol's Colston Hall -- Bristol Post article (Josephine Jeremiah) 4. William POOL/ WILLMETTS --RUSSELL/MERLEY married Barnstaple, Devon (B. Edmonds) 5. BISHOP/MULES -- CLARKE/COLLEY--STONE/OWENS -- BATTLE/JAMES married Devon (B. Edmonds) 6. Re: Edwin Thomas Blake 1873-1930 Army Pension Records (Nivard Ovington) 7. Edwin Thomas Blake 1873-1930 Army Pension Records (liverpud) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:40:21 +0000 From: JHWM1 <jhwm1@btconnect.com> Subject: Re: [B&S] Edward Milward SEEDE PARKER [1909 International Genealogical Directory] To: <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <748cd092-86d0-4fa6-94aa-655d114b1886@DBXPRD0710HT002.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Morning Bev, I'm always interested in my family name of millward but imnot sure I fully understand the relevance or chronology of your Edward Millward.Please could you point me in the right direction about this Edward? I have an Edward who settled north of Cardiff but my family Millward went far and wide at the turn of 1900,s. Please let.me know if you or. Anyone needs any info on any Millward, Bodman, Iles, Moore Regards John Sent from my BlackBerry?? PlayBook?? www.blackberry.com _________________________________________________________________ From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au> To: "bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com" <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Sent: 14 November 2013 04:12 Subject: [B&S] Edward Milward SEEDE PARKER [1909 International Genealogical Directory] Given that I was into looking at an Edward PARKER, Vicar of Bitton last week, I have since come across this in case anyone is interested. His son, Edward married Elizabeth ROSEWALL 16 Jun 1702 at Bitton [1909 International Genealogical Directory] Edward Milward Seede PARKER, Welford House, Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, England, is interested in PASTON, Norfolk and Midland Counties--ROGERS, Bristol and Ireland--ROSEWALL, Devon, Somerset, Wiltshire--RAWLINS, Gloucestershire and Herefordshire--MANSEL- Certified evidence required of relationship [if any] existing between John PASTON, of Norfolk -1421-1466, husband of Margaret MAUTEBY, or of any descendant of theirs, and either of the following:- Nicholas PASTON, King Swinford, Stafford, 1603-1621; John, same place, d. 1636; William living at Hales Owen, Shropshire, 1607; Edward, of Hales Owen, son of John, d. 1697; John, his son, Welford-on-Avon, Glouc.; d. 1689. No fee above a total of ??5 will be paid for this evidence. Looking at FreeCen + 1881 census [Ancestery] one can take this Edward M. S. PARKER right back to Bitton/Upton Cheyney Regards Bev ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-requ est@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:27:43 -0500 From: "liverpud" <liverpud-49@rogers.com> Subject: [B&S] Edwin Thomas Blake 1873-1930 Army Pension Records To: "Bristol-Somerset List" <Bristol_and_Somerset@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <C9F426913C82475C99674D047CAC3558@Edna> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Was wondering if there are any pension files on my Grandfather. He was born and lived in Bristol. Was in the Army 1914-1919 or thereabouts. Possibly in France with the ASC ( Army Service Corps) which was responsible for supplying and transporting the Army. His Army Identification was Private E.T. Blake, A.S.C., (T4-159129) inscribed on the British War Medal, which was approved by King George V in 1919 to commemorate the services rendered by His Majesty's Forces and to record the bringing of the War to a successful conclusion. ( Note: "T" in his number signified Transport Division). Edna has a photograph of the moustached Edwin in his Army uniform taken around 1920; with him is a friend who was in the Machine Gun Corps. Checked his Army record but apparently were in the Burnt Records meaning they were damaged or destroyed during WWII, at the War Office, London. An estimated 60% of the original 6.5 million records were destroyed. There is a card stating RASC, Roll number 101B109, pg. 11049 and that he was a Private. Also proves he received the silver British War Medal (Service Medal) and the Victor! y Medal. By receiving the Victory Medal it meant that he was in a theatre of war (overseas) so we can be fairly sure that he was in France. The qualification for award of the1914-15 Star was entering a theatre of war before the end of 1915, so there is a slight possibility that he was in the ASC before 31 Dec 1915. He was one of the lucky ones, he came home to Bristol. Thank you, Edna - Ottawa ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 18:59:40 -0000 From: "Josephine Jeremiah" <jojeremiah@dsl.pipex.com> Subject: [B&S] Fifty years ago today... The Beatles at Bristol's Colston Hall -- Bristol Post article To: bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <op.w6jy1qv842w82j@orion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes Hi Listers, Fifty years ago today the Beatles were at the Colston Hall, Bristol. http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/FIFTY-YEARS-AGO-TODAY/story-20076943-detail/story.html Were any B & S listers there? If so, do you have any memories of the event? Josephine ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 05:49:10 +1000 From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au> Subject: [B&S] William POOL/ WILLMETTS --RUSSELL/MERLEY married Barnstaple, Devon To: <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <8B691FBCF4964DF08FEDA0736EE8F03E@AthlonX2260> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Not my family but a Stray marriage or two. William POOL, of Norton, Somerset, of the N. D. [North Devon] Militia, and Sarah WILLMETTS married at Barnstaple, Devon 28 Jan 1799 Samuel RUSSELL, of South Petherton, of the Surry [sic] Cavalry, and Alice MERLEY married at Barnstaple 21 May 1799 Bev ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 05:54:07 +1000 From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au> Subject: [B&S] BISHOP/MULES -- CLARKE/COLLEY--STONE/OWENS -- BATTLE/JAMES married Devon To: <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <2159A8891C8E40E59C2225B35FA201BD@AthlonX2260> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Not my family, but a few stray marriages in Devon. Richard BISHOP of Brumvil, Somers.... [sic] and Catherine MULES 24 Jul 1796 at Barnstaple, Devon John CLARKE, widower, of Silworthy, Somers [sic], and Susannah COLLEY married at Barnstaple 12 Nov 1795 William STONE, merchant, of Taunton, and Mary OWENS married at Barnstaple, Devon, 1 May 1793 Benjamin BATTLE, blacksmith, of Froom, Somerset, and Hannah JAMES, married at Barnstaple 20 Feb 1791 Bev ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 22:20:06 +0000 From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [B&S] Edwin Thomas Blake 1873-1930 Army Pension Records To: bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <52854C96.6040806@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Edna Not sure from the narrative but do you have the British War Medal for him? or are you just describing how they were inscribed? The medal card for the man you mention shows he was entitled to the British War Medal and the Victory Medal but not the 1914/15 Star, therefore he did not serve in France before 1916 The T prefix means Horse Transport (M = Motorised) Is it possible your man served past 1920? If so his service papers would not be with the bulk of records damaged/destroyed during WW2 (although I doubt he would have been kept on as he would be 47 and there were a dearth of younger men But as you say approximately two thirds of the service records were lost in 1940 so chances are his were amongst them Pensions wise there is some on them here <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/first-world-war-pensions.htm> But as I understood it the Ministry of Pensions retain the records post 1920 and there is 100 year closure on them in any case Now serial numbers in the Army Service Corps can be problematic Where a mans records are suspected of being destroyed, a ploy that often helps is to look at men in the same Regiment with serial numbers around your targets Helpfully any man with a Silver War Badge (as opposed to the British War Medal) was entered on the SWB roll which records the mans details but also the date of enlistment Edward ASH ASC T4/159110 enlisted 30th March 1916 George William BOLDING ASC T4/159166 enlisted 3rd April 1916 So I would suggest your man enlisted between those dates But as conscription started for single men between 18 & 41 in Jan 1916 and your man was already over 41 when that was introduced, suggests he volunteered before the end of 1916 but was not called up until the start of April 1916 The criteria for conscription was changed to include married men in May/June 1916, which again suggests he volunteered rather than was called up Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 14/11/2013 18:27, liverpud wrote: > Was wondering if there are any pension files on my Grandfather. He > was born and lived in Bristol. Was in the Army 1914-1919 or > thereabouts. > > Possibly in France with the ASC ( Army Service Corps) which was > responsible for supplying and transporting the Army. His Army > Identification was Private E.T. Blake, A.S.C., (T4-159129) inscribed > on the British War Medal, which was approved by King George V in 1919 > to commemorate the services rendered by His Majesty's Forces and to > record the bringing of the War to a successful conclusion. ( Note: > "T" in his number signified Transport Division). Edna has a > photograph of the moustached Edwin in his Army uniform taken around ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 19:13:39 -0500 From: "liverpud" <liverpud-49@rogers.com> Subject: [B&S] Edwin Thomas Blake 1873-1930 Army Pension Records To: <ovington.one@gmail.com>, "Bristol-Somerset List" <Bristol_and_Somerset@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <4EAC5476CE8D4A30916F9D3D8236A84B@Edna> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Nivard, Thanks for replying. I have the British War Medal, which I believe is also called the Service Medal. Around its perimeter, it has his name and the No. T4-159129 inscribed. There was a card stating RASC, Roll number 101B109, pg. 11049 and that he was a Private. This card has been mislaid .... I don't think he worked past 1920. My Mum had said he had been in France but she was a little tot at the time, and stories can be misinterpreted. I do know that my Grandfather was working in Bristol just before WWI started: STAPLETON ROAD SCAFFOLDING ACCIDENT Inquest in the in the Western Daily Press (C.S. Bragg born 1856 Exeter died Bristol 1914) INQUEST ON THE VICTIM Saturday 11 July 1914 (Source: FindMyPast ) An inquest was held yesterday on the body of Charles Samuel Bragg (59), of 137, Whitehouse Lane, Bedminster, who on Thursday met his death in a scaffold accident at Stapleton Road. Evidence of identification was given by the deceased son. Edwin Thomas Blake, a sign writer, said that the deceased, together with himself, were employed by Messrs. W. J. Rogers Ltd., brewers. At a few minutes to two o'clock on Thursday they were both engaged in painting and writing a sign at the railway bridge in Stapleton Road. They were standing on a scaffold composed of four planks, giving a platform 18 inches wide and the length of two planks. They were supported on a set of iron brackets that were specially constructed for painting work on the bridge. A protecting rope ran all round the platform, and was about the height of one's hip from the boards. At the time of the accident the deceased was holding a pot of paint that witness was using, and with his free hand had hold of the rope, as far as the witness could say, the deceased fell over the rope without any apparent reason and appeared to be quite unconscious of what was happening to him, as he made no effort to save himself. During the time that they were up on the platform the deceased was quite sure of his footing, but remarked on the heat of the sun. In answer to Mr. S. H. Pomeroy, who appeared on behalf of the brewing company, the deceased man's employers, the witness said that the only reason that he could give for his mate falling was that he was overcome by the heat. The medical evidence showed that death was due to fracture of the skull and the shock accompanying it. As there were some question as to the safety of the planks and rope raised by the brother of the deceased, the case was temporarily adjourned for the jury to examine them. Upon their return they said that death was due to the causes set forth in the medical evidence, but in their opinion the planks composing the scaffolding were not suitable and the rope was much too low. With appreciation, Edna - Ottawa -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:20 PM To: bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B&S] Edwin Thomas Blake 1873-1930 Army Pension Records Hi Edna Not sure from the narrative but do you have the British War Medal for him? or are you just describing how they were inscribed? The medal card for the man you mention shows he was entitled to the British War Medal and the Victory Medal but not the 1914/15 Star, therefore he did not serve in France before 1916 The T prefix means Horse Transport (M = Motorised) Is it possible your man served past 1920? If so his service papers would not be with the bulk of records damaged/destroyed during WW2 (although I doubt he would have been kept on as he would be 47 and there were a dearth of younger men But as you say approximately two thirds of the service records were lost in 1940 so chances are his were amongst them Pensions wise there is some on them here <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/first-world-war-pensions.htm> But as I understood it the Ministry of Pensions retain the records post 1920 and there is 100 year closure on them in any case Now serial numbers in the Army Service Corps can be problematic Where a mans records are suspected of being destroyed, a ploy that often helps is to look at men in the same Regiment with serial numbers around your targets Helpfully any man with a Silver War Badge (as opposed to the British War Medal) was entered on the SWB roll which records the mans details but also the date of enlistment Edward ASH ASC T4/159110 enlisted 30th March 1916 George William BOLDING ASC T4/159166 enlisted 3rd April 1916 So I would suggest your man enlisted between those dates But as conscription started for single men between 18 & 41 in Jan 1916 and your man was already over 41 when that was introduced, suggests he volunteered before the end of 1916 but was not called up until the start of April 1916 The criteria for conscription was changed to include married men in May/June 1916, which again suggests he volunteered rather than was called up Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 14/11/2013 18:27, liverpud wrote: > Was wondering if there are any pension files on my Grandfather. He > was born and lived in Bristol. Was in the Army 1914-1919 or > thereabouts. > > Possibly in France with the ASC ( Army Service Corps) which was > responsible for supplying and transporting the Army. His Army > Identification was Private E.T. Blake, A.S.C., (T4-159129) inscribed > on the British War Medal, which was approved by King George V in 1919 > to commemorate the services rendered by His Majesty's Forces and to > record the bringing of the War to a successful conclusion. ( Note: > "T" in his number signified Transport Division). Edna has a > photograph of the moustached Edwin in his Army uniform taken around ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ To contact the BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET list administrator, send an email to BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-admin@rootsweb.com. 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Hi Lisa Ancestry have the loosely titled Pension Records as a separate database to the service records In effect the two databases are (1) the burnt records (WO363), those records that survived the WW2 fire, some whole, some damaged, approximately two thirds were completely destroyed And (2) the unburnt records (WO364) the service records with the pensions and other departments There are some other smaller record sets that survived More here <http://www.greatwar.co.uk/research/military-records/british-soldiers-ww1-service-records.htm> As to the Army Service Corps (later the Royal Army Service Corps) they served all over the world in every field of operations at home and abroad as they supplied the rest of the Army They can be one of the hardest parts of the Army to research as it was such a large organisation For service records for those that served past 1920, including WW2, they will not be passed to the National Archives until 2030 (ie for general release to the public) You can apply for copies but there is a £30 fee and proof of death etc may be required Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 23/11/2013 12:33, gene.genie@4email.net wrote: > Hi Edna, > I have just caught up on this, yes if is true that much of the WWI > records were destroyed int he Blitz in WWII. However, I can confirm > that it you are very lucky and your great grandfather applied for his > pension, the records might be at the National Archives in London. > Unfortunately, it's a matter of hiring a researcher or getting a friend > to visit in person. I note you can obtain a copy of his Medal Card > online via the website (Online Records)