Josephine~       I too, have been "wrestling" with this 1851 census of Eliza GRIFFITHS.  On the certificate of death for my g grandmother, her father's surname was listed as GRIFFITH which was quite incorrect.  On my grandmother's death certificate her mother's maiden name was listed as MURPHY.  Thus the same woman was assigned two different surnames by the people who were the informants.  On the former one it was my grandmother who was the informant.  One would think she would have known her mother's maiden name!  For the latter it was my Uncle Bill to supply his grandmother's maiden name which he stated MURPHY!!  Not even close or has a MURPHY surname ever been documented!!  These are prime examples of data on COD's being only as good as the informants knowledge.        Yesterday, I spent a great deal of time in the English census.  I have begun to think that Eliza GRIFFITH is wife #2 but where was Wm. between 1845 and 1861 when he shows up in the census with his father.  He lists his place of birth as Newport Monmouthshire Wale.  Could not locate him in 1851.  He could have been with a relative or maybe in an apprenticeship for coach maker.  Noticed that some men are listed as on vessel & ships name in the census.  My g grandfather if apprenticed might be listed as on vessel somewhere in the records.          Found that Abigail and Zacariah died as young children, not sure what happened to the other child.  Could David, as a young widower, placed his surviving children with family for the girl and apprenticeships for the sons??         More research and a snowy snowy day is needed.  Think the latter part is predicted starting tomorrow night.  Again thank you for your continuing interest. Mary Ellen Chambers ----- Original Message ---- From: Josephine Jeremiah <jojeremiah@dsl.pipex.com> To: bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 7:06:22 AM Subject: [B&S] GRIFFITHS as surname of Frederick John rather than TOWNSEND (was TOWNSEND Family) On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:03:26 -0000, Mary Ellen Chambers <maryln61@yahoo.com> wrote: > My g grandfather Fredrick J. TOWNSEND, was the son of David TOWNSEND  > Coach Maker of Bristol St. Paul area. > The 1861 census has 2 daughters; Alice born 1857, Louisa born 1859 and  > his son Wm. born 1845. Eliza is listed as his wife.  Both David and Wm,  > are listed as coach makers. Hi Mary Ellen, In a previous message, I noted that FreeBMD has a marriage registration in Bristol for David TOWNSEND in the June quarter of 1851 and that Eliza GRIFFITHS is recorded among the possible brides. On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 you wrote: > That may be the correct 2nd wife.  I base this on the fact that on  my g  > grandmother's deathcertificate in 1913, someone gave that surname as her  > father's surname.  This, of course wasincorrect but no one bothered to  > change it. I have been mulling this over for some days and I am beginning to think that the real surname of your great-grandfather could have been GRIFFITHS rather than TOWNSEND as he could have been Eliza's son rather than David's. The marriage certificate of David TOWNSEND and Eliza GRIFFITHS (if this is the correct wife from FreeBMD) could tell you if she was a widow before she married David. It could also tell you her father's name and occupation. I say 'could', because if she was illegitimate her father's name might not be recorded on the certificate. If you knew her father's name and occupation, you might be able to trace this side of the family in the 1841 census. As you think that your great-grandfather, Frederick John, was born c. 1840, you might find him and Eliza under the surname GRIFFITHS in the 1841 census. I am writing this because at the time of the 1841 census, wheelwright, David TOWNSEND, his first wife and children were living at Warmley Hill, Oldland. Both Hannah and David were recorded as being 25 and the children in their household were Abigail, 5, Zachariah, 3, and Mary 3 months. There was no mention of a son John born c.1840. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:22:25 -0000, Mary Ellen Chambers <maryln61@yahoo.com> wrote: > I too, have been "wrestling" with this 1851 census of Eliza GRIFFITHS. Hi Mary Ellen, If this was my family, I would obtain the Bristol marriage certificate of David TOWNSEND in the June quarter of 1851. Hopefully, his bride would turn out to be the Eliza GRIFFITHS, whose marriage was also registered at the same time, and from the certificate her maiden name could be found if she was a widow at the time of marriage. The marriage certificate might also show what her father's name and occupation was, though it might not if she was illegitimate and no father's name was recorded. If you can find out Eliza's maiden name or if she was a widow, her married name, from the marriage certificate, you would be able to look for Eliza and Frederick John, born c. 1840, in the 1841 census. If you find it's not the right marriage certificate, at least you will have left no stone unturned. > Yesterday, I spent a great deal of time in the English census. I don't have access to the censuses so what is the age and birthplace of Eliza in the 1861 census? It's a long shot, but if you let the list know this, the baptism of an Eliza of the right age might be tracked down. There are a number of baptism records online, now, so a match could be made. > I have begun to think that Eliza GRIFFITH is wife #2 but where was Wm. > between 1845 and 1861 when he shows up in the census with his father. > Could not locate him in 1851. I looked in two 1851 census transcriptions, one produced by Gordon Beavington and the other by Gloucestershire Family History Society, but I couldn't see him. A TOWNSEND family from Bitton, who were also coach makers, were in Derby at the time of the 1881 census. I suspect that the William TOWNSEND, shown as being born c. 1844, in the 1881 Derby census, was the William TOWNSEND whose birth was registered in Keynsham in the March quarter of 1844. Keynsham was the registration district for the Bitton area. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com