Hi Mike I looked up Henry and his family to refresh my memory. 12 children in the family. First 5 were baptised, didn't find a baptism for the 6th. Henry, the 7th, baptised when he was 5, and at least 3 years before he entered the workhouse. Didn't find any baptisms for next 4, the 12th born in May 1845, baptised in July and buried in Jan...the same day as her father who died when 'cliff fell on him at the old works'. Ruth was 8 months and ' buried in the same coffin with her father.' Interesting little notes you find when reading the actual register. The mother was buried the day the 12th child, Ruth, was baptised. I expect that Henry and the now youngest child Nicholas entered the work house after their father's death. Using the TNA site you told us about I found a reference in a letter dated 18 Feb 1852 to Nicholas Latcham age 10 fit for employment. An unexpected mention of Nicholas Thank you again for mention of the TNA site. By the way there has been a lenghty discussion on another group re baptisms and fees. The vicar was not supposed to charge for a baptism. Perhaps some did but it was against church rules. Perhaps some families just didn't really care whether or not their children were baptised and every now and then would be prodded into taking them to church and having any unbaptised children 'done'. Best wishes Marjorie >People think of the Workhouse as a dreadful place, but for some members of >the community, it did provide a useful service. Henry would have been fed >and possibly clothed by the Workhouse - it wasn't necessarily such a bad >life. The intent was to make it a bad place for those who could work but >didn't choose to. The (local) government wanted to crack down on the >scroungers - nothing changes, does it ! But Henry and others would receive >more sympathetic treatment. > >I don't believe there was any "official" requirement for inmates to be >baptised as a condition of admission, but local vicars, or perhaps the >Workhouse Master, may have excerted pressure for it to happen. As to why >the parents hadn't baptised him at birth, I can only speculate. Perhaps >they thought he wouldn't survive beyond infancy and couldn't afford the cost >of a baptism. Was he baptised at the same time as one of his siblings ? >That often happened, since vicars could do a "two for the price of one" >deal. > >Best wishes, > >Mike

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 22:01:43 +0100, <Bernpeg@aol.com> wrote: > Although I also can't find Benjamin Joseph in the Gordon Beavington 1851 > census for Bristol, I note from familysearch.org that Benjamin Joseph > married Caroline Woodbridge at the church of St Thomas, Bristol on > 16.12.1848. Hi Bernice, Thanks very much for that confirmation. I saw a reference on WorldConnect to the marriage at St. Thomas's Church, Bristol, but I haven't looked at familysearch.org for information. > His father was quoted as John Joseph and her father was quoted as Thomas > Woodbridge. Thanks for that, too. I've now found a possible marriages for both the fathers. > I also note that the Woodbridges lived a couple of doors away from > Benjamin Joseph in the 1881 census at Bedminster Down. I'm not sure > whether you > already knew this about the families. No, I didn't know it so thanks for that, as well. I'd only taken a brief look in the 1881 census, using my 1881 Southwestern census CD, because I have to do complicated things to get at it on this computer, which in some ways is as wayward as my old Acorn. > If you don't find them in 1851 in Wales either, have you considered > County Durham? No, I hadn't got as far as thinking that. Wales sprang into my mind first. I did look in the 1851 Glamorgan census, which I have on CD, and saw a lot of people with the surname JOSEPH there, but no Benjamin JOSEPH. > I have coal mining ancestors from the Bitton area who went north to > Durham. I think that some of the Somerset VEATERs went there, too. > I also have ancestors who emigrated to Australia in the gold rush in > the 1850s and who returned to Bitton by the 1881 census. > Just a thought. And I good one, too! That's reminded me that Ian's great-grandfather went to Cuyahoga, Ohio after the 1871 census and was back in Wales by the 1881 census. I've just found the 1873 baptism of Ian's great-uncle in Cuyahoga, this week. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:22:59 +0100, Jan Boyes <markandjanboyes@ntlworld.com> wrote: > I've just looked at the image, trying to see if it was bad handwriting > for > JOSEPH, and it isn't. > It really does look like JEFFERIS, so I don't think this is your man. Hi Jan, Thanks very much for looking in the 1851 census for me. The husband's first name and wife's first names were right and their approximate birth years could have fitted with their baptisms. (Benjamin JOSEPH was baptized in 1827 and Caroline WOODBRIDGE was baptized in 1830.) But as you say, the clear writing of JEFFERIS indicates that the Mangotsfield couple isn't the Bedminster couple for whom I am looking. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Hi Josephine, I've just looked at the image, trying to see if it was bad handwriting for JOSEPH, and it isn't. It really does look like JEFFERIS, so I don't think this is your man. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Boyes" <markandjanboyes@ntlworld.com> To: <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [B&S] JOSEPH Benjamin, 1851 census,possibly coal mining commumity > Hi Josephine, > This is the only one I could come up with - though if it is him, its a bad > error. > > 1851 Census > > JEFFERIS, Benjamin Head Married M 23 1828 Minor > Mangotsfield >

Hi Josephine, This is the only one I could come up with - though if it is him, its a bad error. 1851 Census JEFFERIS, Benjamin Head Married M 23 1828 Minor Mangotsfield Gloucestershire JEFFERIS, Caroline Wife Married F 24 1827 Stapleton Gloucestershire JEFFERIS, George Son M 0 (2 MOS) 1851 Stapleton Gloucestershire RG number: HO107 Piece: 1955 Folio: 319 Page: 9 Registration District: Clifton Sub District: Stapleton Enumeration District: 2B Ecclesiastical Parish: Civil Parish: Stapleton Municipal Borough: Address: Lodge Causeway, Stapleton County: Gloucestershire Do you think this could be him? Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josephine Jeremiah" <jojeremiah@dsl.pipex.com> To: <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: [B&S] JOSEPH Benjamin, 1851 census, possibly coal mining commumity >I am still on the track of the Bristol family of my Australian > correspondent. > > Benjamin Foord JOSEPH, son, of John and Hannah, was baptized on 23rd. > December 1827 at Bedminster. > > Josephine > > >

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:05:35 +0100, Tony Harrison <a.harrison@tesco.net> wrote: > Have been unable to find in 1851 but have found them both in 1861,1871 > and 1901 still living in Bedminster. If you want further details let me > know and I will send them. Yes, please, Tony. I am intrigued by this family. I was wondering if there was a Welsh link as I couldn't find them in the 1851 Bedminster census, where I thought they might have been. A number of families in my tree and Ian's went from Bedminster to Wales for work. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Hi Josephine Have been unable to find in 1851 but have found them both in 1861,1871 and 1901 still living in Bedminster. If you want further details let me know and I will send them. Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josephine Jeremiah" <jojeremiah@dsl.pipex.com> To: <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: [B&S] JOSEPH Benjamin, 1851 census, possibly coal mining commumity >I am still on the track of the Bristol family of my Australian > correspondent. > > Benjamin Foord JOSEPH, son, of John and Hannah, was baptized on 23rd. > December 1827 at Bedminster. > > Abode was Bedminster Down and father's occupation was hawker. (Earlier > baptisms for his sisters, Caroline and Jane, at the church of St. Philip & > Jacob, Bristol, give the information that the father was a pedlar and the > abode was St. Philip.) > > Benjamin JOSEPH and Caroline WOODBRIDGE were married on 16th. December > 1848 in Bristol. > > It's likely that Benjamin was a coal miner. > > I have been looking for Benjamin and Caroline in Bedminster in Gordon > Beavington's 1851 census transcription, but have drawn a blank. Could they > be in Wales at this time? > > Can anyone find them in the 1851 census, please? > > Josephine > > > -- > Josephine Jeremiah > www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am still on the track of the Bristol family of my Australian correspondent. Benjamin Foord JOSEPH, son, of John and Hannah, was baptized on 23rd. December 1827 at Bedminster. Abode was Bedminster Down and father's occupation was hawker. (Earlier baptisms for his sisters, Caroline and Jane, at the church of St. Philip & Jacob, Bristol, give the information that the father was a pedlar and the abode was St. Philip.) Benjamin JOSEPH and Caroline WOODBRIDGE were married on 16th. December 1848 in Bristol. It's likely that Benjamin was a coal miner. I have been looking for Benjamin and Caroline in Bedminster in Gordon Beavington's 1851 census transcription, but have drawn a blank. Could they be in Wales at this time? Can anyone find them in the 1851 census, please? Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:23:16 +0100, Josephine Jeremiah <jojeremiah@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > I am trying to help an Australian correspondent with her Bristol > families. > > The marriage of Thomas SMITH and Emily Jane KANE was registered in the > March quarter of 1879 in Bristol. > I've been told that Hannah's father was Thomas William Smith born 1853, a > labourer from Westwickham, Buckinghamshire. On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:13:26 +0100, Tony Harrison <a.harrison@tesco.net> wrote: > I think this is Thomas in 1861 {RG9/862 Folio 72 Page 1}with his family > they were all born Saunderton Buckinghamshire which comes within Wycombe > Registration District. He was still with his family in 1871. Thank you very much for this sighting of the Smith family, Tony. Smith is such a difficult name to research, especially in unfamiliar territory. I've discovered something else new because I didn't know where Saunderton is. I've just looked it up in my atlas. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Hi Tony According to the 1841 census father was a William Sargent mother Mary siblings Edwin b abt 1830, Mary b abt 1832and Emma b abt 1834 all living High Street Walcot Bath Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "caple anthony" <tony.caple@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:29 PM Subject: [B&S] Sargeant Christiana > Hi All > > Have Christiana SARGEANT born Bath , circa 1839 > > Have her marriage BUT unable to find her parent,s or siblings. > > She married Robert GAMLIN in 1858. > > Any help most welcome. > > Regards > > Tony > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:43:19 +0100, Marion <lowe.marion@gmail.com> wrote: > Thomas's wife, nee Emily Jane KANE, might be the daughter of William > KANE and wife Eliza, who were in Twinnell Rd in 1871: > RG10/2564, page 24, folio 57 > 4 Twinnell Rd, St Philip & Jacob > William KANE, Head, Mar, 34, labourer, born Dauntsey Wilts > Eliza ", wife, mar, 30, wife, born Ditcheat Somerset > Frederick James ", son, 10, born St Philip & St Jacob Bristol > Emily Jane ", dau, 8, born St Philip & St Jacob Bristol > William Ashford ", 4, born St Philip & St Jacob Bristol Thanks to Marion's reply to my message about Emily Jane KANE, I have been able use to the information above to find out more about the family of my Australian correspondent. The birth of Emily Jane KANE was registered in the March quarter of 1863 at Clifton. The marriage of William KANE and Eliza ASHFORD was registered in the September quarter of 1860 at Clifton. There's a likely match for Eliza ASHFORD in the 1851 Somerset census, which shows her living in Ditcheat. Then, she was a 9-year-old silk spinner in the household of Henry and Mary Ann ASHFORD. Henry, 56, was a pauper pig and cattle jobber, while Mary Ann was a straw bonnet maker. Others in the household were Henry, 18, an agricultural labourer and 12-year-old Mary Ann, a silk spinner. All were born in Ditcheat. Eliza ASHFORD, daughter of Henry and Mary Anne ASHFORD, was baptized on 27th. June 1841 at the church of St. Mary Magdalene, Ditcheat, Somerset. Abode was Wraxall and father's occupation was labourer. A possible marriage for the parents is that of Henry ASHFORD, bachelor, and Mary Ann FURZE, spinster, which took place on 25th. December 1826 at the church of St. Peter and St. Paul, Shepton Mallet, Somerset. This shows how a reply to a question on list can lead to lots of other information. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Hi Josephine I think this is Thomas in 1861 {RG9/862 Folio 72 Page 1}with his family they were all born Saunderton Buckinghamshire which comes within Wycombe Registration District. He was still with his family in 1871. Members: Name Age Thomas Smith 53 Leah Smith 42 Dan Smith 23 Emma Smith 19 John Smith 12 Samuel Smith 10 Thomas Smith 7 Ann Smith 4 Maria Smith 1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josephine Jeremiah" <jojeremiah@dsl.pipex.com> To: <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 10:23 AM Subject: [B&S] SMITH Thomas & Emily Jane (nee KANE). Bristol 1879 & 1888, Census location for 1881 and 1891, please >I am trying to help an Australian correspondent with her Bristol families. > > The marriage of Thomas SMITH and Emily Jane KANE was registered in the > March quarter of 1879 in Bristol. > > Te birth of their daughter, Hannah Eliza M. C. SMITH, was registered in > Barton Regis in June 1888. > > I've been told that Hannah's father was Thomas William Smith born 1853, a > labourer from Westwickham, Buckinghamshire. > > I couldn't find Thomas and Emily Jane SMITH on my 1881 census CD for the > Southwestern Region. Have I missed them or weren't they living in Bristol > at this time? Can anyone give me their location, please? > > I would be also grateful for 1891 census details of the SMITH family, who > may or may not have been in Bristol at this time, so that I can find out > the age and birth place of Emily Jane and possibly trace the KANE family > further back. > > Any answers to the list, please, so that my correspondent can see them in > the B & S archives. > > Josephine > > -- > Josephine Jeremiah > www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Josephine Although I also can't find Benjamin Joseph in the Gordon Beavington 1851 census for Bristol, I note from familysearch.org that Benjamin Joseph married Caroline Woodbridge at the church of St Thomas, Bristol on 16.12.1848. His father was quoted as John Joseph and her father was quoted as Thomas Woodbridge. I also note that the Woodbridges lived a couple of doors away from Benjamin Joseph in the 1881 census at Bedminster Down. I'm not sure whether you already knew this about the families. If you don't find them in 1851 in Wales either, have you considered County Durham? I have coal mining ancestors from the Bitton area who went north to Durham. I also have ancestors who emigrated to Australia in the gold rush in the 1850s and who returned to Bitton by the 1881 census. Just a thought. Bernice

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:42:52 +0100, liverpud <liverpud-49@rogers.com> wrote: > Yes my Mum (Agnes Blake 1909-1992) was a student at Barleyfields School. > I still have her report card somewhere here. It stated one thing that > Mum> was always proud of -- > she was never late. And that is true. W. E. Braund was the master > there at that time. > > Good memory, Josephine. Hi Edna, I'm going to need that good memory, more and more, as my other half hasn't retrieved everything in my Acorn's archive, yet. The good thing is that much of our correspondence is in the B & S archives. I'll just have to remember key words to find what I've written over the last decade. Our B & S Barleyfields correspondence, which led the Australian researcher to me, and Marion's census information about the SMITH and KANE family has led me to 14-year-old William KANE in Dauntsey in the 1851 Wiltshire census and 10-year-old Eliza ASHFORD in Ditcheat in the 1851 Somerset census. The Barleyfields link was because my Australian correspondent has a school prize given to one of her relatives, Edgar SMITH, in 1909. Sadly, within a decade, he and his twin brother, Thomas, lost their lives in the Great War. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Hi Tony BathBMD has the birth of Christiana SARGENT in 1838 in Lansdown sub-district. Her mother's maiden name is given as MOLD. In the 1841 Census there is the following family HO 107/970/13, page 23, folio 16 High Street, Walcot William SARGENT, 35, MS, not born in Somerset Mary SARGENT, 35, not born in Somerset Edwin " , 11, born in Somerset Mary " , 9, " Emma " , 7, " Christiana " , 3, " hope that helps Marion > On 25 October 2010 13:29, caple anthony <tony.caple@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >> Hi All >> >> Have Christiana SARGEANT born Bath , circa 1839 >> >> Have her marriage BUT unable to find her parent,s or siblings. >> >> She married Robert GAMLIN in 1858. >> >> Any help most welcome. >> >> Regards >> >> Tony >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >

Hi Tony BathBMD has the birth of Christiana SARGENT in 1838 in Lansdown sub-district. Her mother's maiden name is given as MOLD. In the 1841 On 25 October 2010 13:29, caple anthony <tony.caple@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > Hi All > > Have Christiana SARGEANT born Bath , circa 1839 > > Have her marriage BUT unable to find her parent,s or siblings. > > She married Robert GAMLIN in 1858. > > Any help most welcome. > > Regards > > Tony > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi All Have Christiana SARGEANT born Bath , circa 1839 Have her marriage BUT unable to find her parent,s or siblings. She married Robert GAMLIN in 1858. Any help most welcome. Regards Tony

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:43:19 +0100, Marion <lowe.marion@gmail.com> wrote: > I have had no luck finding them in 1881 as yet. There do not appear to > be any likely Hannah Eliza's with parents Thomas and Emily. Thanks very much for looking in the 1881 census, Marion. I thought I must have missed the SMITH family, when I was looking in my 1881 census CD. > In 1891 this is the closest I can find: > RG12/1981, page 16, folio 99 > 36 Twinnell Rd, St Philip & Jacob > Thomas SMITH, head, M, 37, Stationary Engine Fireman, born Oxford, High > Wycombe > Emily ", wife, M, 29, born Bristol > Emily M ", Daur, S, 6, born Bristol > Maude ", Daur, S, 3, born Bristol > Thomas W ", son, S, 1, born Bristol Thank you very much for this, too. No wonder I couldn't find the family in my 1891 Bristol census index as I was looking for the daughter Hannah SMITH. > and in 1901 the above couple are still in Bristol: > RG13/2384, page 7, folio 58 > 61 Old Bread St, St Philip & Jacob > Thomas SMITH, head, M, 47, labourer [pencil mark "Brewery", born Wycombe > Bucks I think this must be the family I'm looking for as my correspondent mentioned that Thomas SMITH worked in a distillery. > Emily ", dau, S, 16, trousers machinist, born Portland Dorset > Maud ", dau, S, 12, school, born Bristol I think that Maud was the Hannah I'm looking for as Hannah's third name was Maud so this confirms that this is the family. > Thomas's wife, nee Emily Jane KANE, might be the daughter of William > KANE and wife Eliza, who were in Twinnell Rd in 1871: > RG10/2564, page 24, folio 57 > 4 Twinnell Rd, St Philip & Jacob > William KANE, Head, Mar, 34, labourer, born Dauntsey Wilts > Eliza ", wife, mar, 30, wife, born Ditcheat Somerset > Frederick James ", son, 10, born St Philip & St Jacob Bristol > Emily Jane ", dau, 8, born St Philip & St Jacob Bristol > William Ashford ", 4, born St Philip & St Jacob Bristol > > if this is the correct family, Emily Jane would have been about 16 at > marriage. This is great, Marion, and it gives me something to work on. Thank you for all this new information. Josephine Sorry, listers if this arrives twice. I thought I'd sent it, but couldn't find it in the sent folder. -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Hi Josephine I have had no luck finding them in 1881 as yet. There do not appear to be any likely Hannah Eliza's with parents Thomas and Emily. However: In 1891 this is the closest I can find: RG12/1981, page 16, folio 99 36 Twinnell Rd, St Philip & Jacob Thomas SMITH, head, M, 37, Stationary Engine Fireman, born Oxford, High Wycombe Emily ", wife, M, 29, born Bristol Emily M ", Daur, S, 6, born Bristol Maude ", Daur, S, 3, born Bristol Thomas W ", son, S, 1, born Bristol and in 1901 the above couple are still in Bristol: RG13/2384, page 7, folio 58 61 Old Bread St, St Philip & Jacob Thomas SMITH, head, M, 47, labourer [pencil mark "Brewery", born Wycombe Bucks Emily ", wife, M, 38, trousers machinist, born Bristol Emily ", dau, S, 16, trousers machinist, born Portland Dorset Maud ", dau, S, 12, school, born Bristol Thomas ", son, S, 11, school, born Bristol this presumes that Hannah Eliza MC was known as Emily M, and the Portland Dorset may be a red herring also, given the previous entry. Thomas's wife, nee Emily Jane KANE, might be the daughter of William KANE and wife Eliza, who were in Twinnell Rd in 1871: RG10/2564, page 24, folio 57 4 Twinnell Rd, St Philip & Jacob William KANE, Head, Mar, 34, labourer, born Dauntsey Wilts Eliza ", wife, mar, 30, wife, born Ditcheat Somerset Frederick James ", son, 10, born St Philip & St Jacob Bristol Emily Jane ", dau, 8, born St Philip & St Jacob Bristol William Ashford ", 4, born St Philip & St Jacob Bristol if this is the correct family, Emily Jane would have been about 16 at marriage. Marion On 25 October 2010 10:23, Josephine Jeremiah <jojeremiah@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > I am trying to help an Australian correspondent with her Bristol families. > > The marriage of Thomas SMITH and Emily Jane KANE was registered in the > March quarter of 1879 in Bristol. > > Te birth of their daughter, Hannah Eliza M. C. SMITH, was registered in > Barton Regis in June 1888. > > I've been told that Hannah's father was Thomas William Smith born 1853, a > labourer from Westwickham, Buckinghamshire. > > I couldn't find Thomas and Emily Jane SMITH on my 1881 census CD for the > Southwestern Region. Have I missed them or weren't they living in Bristol > at this time? Can anyone give me their location, please? > > I would be also grateful for 1891 census details of the SMITH family, who > may or may not have been in Bristol at this time, so that I can find out > the age and birth place of Emily Jane and possibly trace the KANE family > further back. > > Any answers to the list, please, so that my correspondent can see them in > the B & S archives. > > Josephine > > -- > Josephine Jeremiah > www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am trying to help an Australian correspondent with her Bristol families. The marriage of Thomas SMITH and Emily Jane KANE was registered in the March quarter of 1879 in Bristol. Te birth of their daughter, Hannah Eliza M. C. SMITH, was registered in Barton Regis in June 1888. I've been told that Hannah's father was Thomas William Smith born 1853, a labourer from Westwickham, Buckinghamshire. I couldn't find Thomas and Emily Jane SMITH on my 1881 census CD for the Southwestern Region. Have I missed them or weren't they living in Bristol at this time? Can anyone give me their location, please? I would be also grateful for 1891 census details of the SMITH family, who may or may not have been in Bristol at this time, so that I can find out the age and birth place of Emily Jane and possibly trace the KANE family further back. Any answers to the list, please, so that my correspondent can see them in the B & S archives. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com