Hi Syd, I couldn't find him on an Ancestry search of the 1841 census. Do you know of anyone else likely to be in the house (parents or siblings) ? It might help in case there has been a mis-transcription. Best wishes, Mike Gould Leicestershire -----Original Message----- From: bristol_and_somerset-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bristol_and_somerset-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Syd Hockey Sent: 11 November 2010 16:38 To: BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET@rootsweb.com Subject: [B&S] 1841 CENSUS for BRISTOL Hello Everybody, If there is anyone with the 1841 census for the BRISTOL area would you kindly keep a look out for SAMUEL BIDDER, he was b, about 1829 BRISTOL. Thank you for any help. Regards, Syd ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Everybody, If there is anyone with the 1841 census for the BRISTOL area would you kindly keep a look out for SAMUEL BIDDER, he was b, about 1829 BRISTOL. Thank you for any help. Regards, Syd

On 11 Nov 2010 at 15:33, Josephine Jeremiah wrote: > Yesterday, I sent a message to the list about an article in Tuesday's > Evening Post concerning John HORWOOD, from Hanham, who was the first > person to be executed at the New Bristol Gaol in 1821. > > http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/want-burial-denied/article-2852289 > -detail/article.html > I find this story quite bizarre and I am afraid I am not in agreement with the attitude of John Horwood's living family who have apparently won the right to have his remains buried! I appreciate there will be some who will not agree with me, but in my book political correctness - and this is what this is - has no part in family history. We should accept the events of the past, however unfortunate and sad they might be, and to try and rewrite history and correct perceived wrongs almost 200 years later seems to me rather pointless and over-emotional. It also seems to me we are going down a very dangerous path if the descendants of people who were seen as being wrongly executed can demand the right to sue in today's climate - HM The Queen, for instance, would never be out of the courts once the principle is established, considering the vast numbers executed by her ancestors !!! I also don't believe the descendant Mary Halliwell (actually she's a collateral descendant of John Horwood, not a direct one) is thinking very straight when she talks about: "I am angry that a human being, Dr Smith, could do something so barbaric to another person. It is terrible and certainly wasn't very dignified." Of course it was barbaric by today's standards but in the early 19th century it was very common, routine practice for people who died on the gallows for murder to have their bodies given over to a hospital or the surgeons for dissection and medical research. I am extremely familiar with another famous case, that of Mary Bateman, known as the Yorkshire Witch (which I have researched extensively, written and lectured about) who was hanged at York in 1809 and whose body was also dissected and her skin tanned and sold as souvenirs. Leeds Infirmary made around £30 from this unusual fund- raising and by selling places at threepence each to fashionable ladies and gentlemen to view the dissection. Mary Bateman's skeleton too still exists in a medical museum in Leeds. Mary Halliwell obviously doesn't understand that according to the mores of the time it was quite a normal thing and she has fallen into the common trap of many beginners to family history by applying modern judgements and a mindset of 21st century values to something that happened two centuries ago. It's like apologising for slavery - we mustn't do it because there's no-one alive today who can possibly be blamed for it! I have not looked at the original trial reports but it seems very likely that the order for the body to be given to a hospital for dissection was part of the sentence under the law as it stood AT THE TIME. Thus, the family could no longer claim ownership of it and, in my view, that would be the case still today. Trying to correct the perceived wrongs of history by applying today's standards makes a complete nonsense of history and family historians are the very first people who should recognise this. In any event, were it my family I would take a (probably perverse) pleasure in knowing that my ancestor's skeleton still existed after he was hanged for murder and want it to remain publicly available! Especially as the fact that John Horwood was apparently the first to be executed at New Bristol Gaol is of important historical significance and of wider interest beyond any descendants. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Yesterday, I sent a message to the list about an article in Tuesday's Evening Post concerning John HORWOOD, from Hanham, who was the first person to be executed at the New Bristol Gaol in 1821. http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/want-burial-denied/article-2852289-detail/article.html My message hasn't come back to me yet, after yesterday's rootsweb close down, but it obviously reached some of you as I had a private response to it and I also saw it in the B & S archives. Anyway, the surname HORWOOD had me rooting around in my notes for my husband's family as I was wondered if his possible HORWOOD ancestor was related to the John HORWOOD who was executed. However, it doesn't appear, at the moment, that there was a direct link between the Hanham HORWOODs and Ian's possible ancestor, Elizabeth HORWOOD, who is likely to have been the daughter of Henry and Elizabeth and whose baptism took place at St. George, GLS on 22nd. July 1802. Last night I traced the St. George HORWOODs back to the marriage, by licence, of Henry HORWOOD and Martha PHELPS, who were married on 5th. September 1762 at St. George. Interestingly, the occupation of Henry HORWOOD was recorded as a mariner. I have mariners in my tree, but this is the first one I've found for Ian. This couple may have been Elizabeth's grandparents. The HORWOOD link with Ian's family is that a marriage between a John HEARNIMAN and an Elizabeth HORWOOD took place at St. George, Bristol on 20th. November 1827. Ian's 3x grest-grandparents were John HERNIMAN and wife, Elizabeth. This marriage is the best match I can find for the couple who lived with their young family in West Street, Bedminster at the time of the 1841 census. -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Hi Syd, Only two close variants anywhere on the census: Samuel Bedder c. 1828 and his family living in Middlesex. All born there. And Samuel Biddon c. 1829 living in Gainsborough. It would help if you knew one or both parents or siblings as he's probably obviously mis-transcribed. pamela -----Original Message----- From: bristol_and_somerset-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bristol_and_somerset-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Syd Hockey Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 12:38 PM To: BRISTOL_AND_SOMERSET@rootsweb.com Subject: [B&S] 1841 CENSUS for BRISTOL Hello Everybody, If there is anyone with the 1841 census for the BRISTOL area would you kindly keep a look out for SAMUEL BIDDER, he was b, about 1829 BRISTOL. Thank you for any help. Regards, Syd

Bless these brave men and women: http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp Edna - Ottawa

Today, the thoughts of many will be about Armistice Day. On Tuesday 11th. November 2008, I sent to the list a description of Bristol on Armistice Day, 11th. November 1918. For anyone who missed this post or who would like to read it again it's in the Bristol_and_Somerset archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/bristol_and_somerset/2008-11/1226398567 Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

In article <51601.19274.qm@web88306.mail.re4.yahoo.com>, Patricia A <smadap@rogers.com> wrote: > I have always found it so very sad that the three little ones my > wonderful Nan lost between 1896 and 1908 were each buried in with > another person, somewhere in Greenbank cemetery. I remember going to > Greenbank with her when I was a small girl, as we lived not far away on > Whitehall Road, but not fully understanding at the time just who we > were "visiting". Patricia, this has reminded me that my grandparents also had a baby buried in Greenbank Cemetery in difficult circumstances. During the Great War, my mother's baby brother was baptized on 14th. November 1917 at St. Michael's Church, Two Mile Hill, Bristol. His death was registered in the December quarter of 1917 with the age of 0 years against it. His birth registration was in the same quarter. At the time that the baby died, I think that my grandfather, who was a coal miner, was temporarily out of work due to injury in the pit, so there was no money for funeral expenses. My grandparents took the baby's coffin to Greenbank Cemetery, themselves, and the baby was buried in a mass grave. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah http://www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

There was an article in yesterday's Evening Post about John HORWOOD, from Hanham, who was the first person to be executed at the New Bristol Gaol in 1821. His distant relative wants him to have the funeral he was denied: http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/want-burial-denied/article-2852289-detail/article.html -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Edwardian Farm, is on BBC2 tonight at 8 p.m. Information about this television programme is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00w15jc TV blog Edwardian Farm: The hard graft of country life http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tv/2010/11/edwardian-farm.shtml -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Pat, Thank you so very much for this as I have often wondered how I would find that information, so I shall certainly send them an email and see what they require. I do have copies of the death certificates for each of the little ones. It would be really nice to think that I could find answers to this as we shall be in the UK next April to attend my nephew's wedding in Milton Keynes, but a side trip to Bristol is (hopefully) still on the agenda! Patricia A. Almonte, Canada ________________________________ From: Pat Hase <pat@pathase.demon.co.uk> To: bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 7:51:14 AM Subject: Re: [B&S] Death, grief and povery in Britain, 1870-1914 If you wished to find out exactly where each of the children were buried the records should show this. The records for Greenbank are at Canford E-mail: cems.crems@bristol.gov.uk If you gave the names and dates of each death they could probably tell you the location of each burial and even perhaps the names of others in the same grave. I'm not sure of the cost involved. Pat

Patricia, It was a very common practice to bury young children in the same grave as an adult who was being buried the same day. At a time when the infant mortality rate was high this was accepted by many families. If you wished to find out exactly where each of the children were buried the records should show this. The records for Greenbank are at Canford E-mail: cems.crems@bristol.gov.uk If you gave the names and dates of each death they could probably tell you the location of each burial and even perhaps the names of others in the same grave. I'm not sure of the cost involved. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia A" <smadap@rogers.com> To: <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [B&S] Death, grief and povery in Britain, 1870-1914 > Thank you for referring to that book, Josephine, which I took a look at on > Google Books. > > > I have always found it so very sad that the three little ones my wonderful > Nan > lost between 1896 and 1908 were each buried in with another person, > somewhere in > Greenbank cemetery. I remember going to Greenbank with her when I was a > small > girl, as we lived not far away on Whitehall Road, but not fully > understanding at > the time just who we were "visiting". I have no idea where Arthur James, > Alfred > Edward or Beatrice Emily are in that cemetery, or even who they were > buried with > as she kept those things to herself. It also makes me angry to think that > she > had to revert to something like that most likely due to the fact that her > husband, my grandfather MILLINER, was much too fond of his drink, while > she > struggled to make ends meet and feed her family. > > Patricia A > Almonte, Canada

Hi List, I am after information on the Bridgwater Ironworks, that operated in Bridgwater in the 1760's. As far as I can tell it was in the possession of Thomas Bayley, then it went Bayley & Street, then Bayley, Street & co. then Street and Pyke. Street is the part I am most interested in. Robert Street, born abt 1710. (going by his age at death) and Susanna Street had 10 children born in Bridgwater between 1746 and 1763. Robert died in 1785, in Bridgwater age 77 years. The childrens names are: Susannah, Sarah,Frances,Robert, John, Fanny, Mary, Charles, William, James. There is no trace of the children in Bridgwater either. I am sure I found John, William, Sarah and Fanny in Middlesex in the 1770's. I dont think Robert or Susannah were originally from Bridgwater. As I couldnt find anything else relating to them on the Bridgwater freereg online. There is a possible marriage on free reg. for Robert Street and a Susanna Chubb in Chilton Trinity in 1740. But there is no children born there. So there is a gap of 6 years before the first child Susanna is born in 1746 in Bridgwater. I would love to find information on how Robert became a brazier and who he was apprenticed too. Any suggestion on where I should look? I would also be interested in anything to do with the Foundry that they ran in Bridgwater and also any of the names mentioned. I have emailled the Bridgwater Museum, and are still awaiting a reply. Thanking you. Karen in Australia

Thank you for referring to that book, Josephine, which I took a look at on Google Books. I have always found it so very sad that the three little ones my wonderful Nan lost between 1896 and 1908 were each buried in with another person, somewhere in Greenbank cemetery. I remember going to Greenbank with her when I was a small girl, as we lived not far away on Whitehall Road, but not fully understanding at the time just who we were "visiting". I have no idea where Arthur James, Alfred Edward or Beatrice Emily are in that cemetery, or even who they were buried with as she kept those things to herself. It also makes me angry to think that she had to revert to something like that most likely due to the fact that her husband, my grandfather MILLINER, was much too fond of his drink, while she struggled to make ends meet and feed her family. Patricia A Almonte, Canada ________________________________ From: Josephine Jeremiah <jojeremiah@dsl.pipex.com> As there has been recent reference to undertakers, list members might be interested in learning more about funerals from a chapter on the subject in 'Death, Grief and Poverty in Britain, 1870-1914' by Julie-Marie Strange. Chapter 4 The funeral, pages 98-130, can be found on Google Books. Josephine --

As there has been recent reference to undertakers, list members might be interested in learning more about funerals from a chapter on the subject in 'Death, Grief and Poverty in Britain, 1870-1914' by Julie-Marie Strange. Chapter 4 The funeral, pages 98-130, can be found on Google Books. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Yes, I did know that my Blake family lived at #3 Regent's Place Fishponds, and the Pooles were at #2 (1901 Census) I would imagine that John Poole purchased his newspaper from my Grandmother Ada Amelia Blake née Worth (1870-1947). Thank you Josephine. Edna - Ottawa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josephine Jeremiah" <jojeremiah@dsl.pipex.com> To: <bristol_and_somerset@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:35 AM Subject: Re: [B&S] Poole of Fishponds, Undertaker On Sun, 07 Nov 2010 18:11:31 -0000, liverpud <liverpud-49@rogers.com> wrote: > Another Poole of Fishponds was the Undertaker for my Gt. Grandfather: > John Charles Worth (1830-97) of Filwood Rd. Hi Edna, You probably already know this, but John POOLE, draper and undertaker, was listed in Fishponds Road, Fishponds next to your grandmother, Ada Amelia BLAKE, newsagent, in Wright's Bristol Directory of 1901. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Bristol as our ancestors saw it, c. 1853. We now return where we entered Christmas Street, and proceed on the left through Nelson Street, which is occupied by Messrs. BUDGETTS, and other large wholesale warehouses, till we come to the BRISTOL DIOCESAN SCHOOL for boys and girls. Leaving the BRIDEWELL and CENTRAL POLICE STATION in Bridewell Street on the left, we enter Broadmead, and pass the BAPTIST CHAPEL, nearly opposite Union Street. The original structure was formed about 1671, but the present was built about the beginning of the 18th century. The chief pastor must understand Hebrew and Greek, and is the principal of the STOKE's CROFT BAPTIST ACADEMY. Passing the entrance to the LOWER ARCADE, as well as the GREYHOUND COMMERCIAL AND FAMILY HOTEL on the opposite side of the street, (adjoining to the Hotel are the BROADMEAD ROOMS, where public meetings are frequently held, &c. &c.) we notice the WELSH CALVINISTIC METHODIST CHAPEL. Turning the corner on the left we enter Old King Street, where are two Dissenting Chapels. The one on the right is a BAPTIST CHAPEL, the congregation from the Pithay, removing here in 1815; and the other is the EBENEZER METHODIST CHAPEL, erected in 1795, when the Large Room, originally built under the auspices of the Rev. John Wesley in Broadmead, was abandoned. Walking into the Horse Fair on the left we enter the UPPER ARCADE, that extends into St. James's Barton, and which, with the Lower, were opened in June, 1825, by three spirited individuals, for the accommodation of the inhabitants of St. Paul's and Kingsdown, as affording a better communication with the centre of the City. In ST. JAMES' BARTON BENEVOLENT SCHOOL there are no less than three hundred children, who are daily taught reading, writing, &c., and some of them are clothed. -- Josephine Jeremiah http://www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Bristol as our ancestors saw it, c. 1853. At the bottom of the street is ST. JOHN'S CHURCH, which is the smallest in Bristol,-consisting of one aisle only. It was founded by Walter Frampton, who was buried here, and the date on his tomb is 1357. On the south side of the tower are " quaintly carvelled" two venerable figures of the brothers BRENNUS and BELINUS, said to be founders of our City. The Church of St. Lawrence, which stood immediately to the west end of the archway in Tower Lane, was sold and taken down in 1580, when the parish was incorporated with St. John's. Passing through the archway under the tower we enter Christmas Street, the scene of many important events. It was through this street that QUEEN ELIZABETH and QUEEN ANNE, with all the pomp and pageantry of royalty, passed when they respectively visited our City. It was here that Mr. SHERIFF BOUCHER resided, who, with Mr. YEAMANS, attempted to deliver up the City to their royal master in 1644, and for which they were hanged; and lastly, it is in this street that a building known as ST. BARTHOLOMEW'S HOSPITAL existed from 1205 till within the last few years, but which is now (1853) a Cooperage. Crossing over St. John's Bridge from thence, lead us to view the UNITARIAN CHAPEL in Lewin's Mead, which was rebuilt in 1789. The Alms House and Charity School in Stoke's Croft were built and endowed by members of this congregation. -- Josephine Jeremiah http://www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

On Sun, 07 Nov 2010 18:11:31 -0000, liverpud <liverpud-49@rogers.com> wrote: > Another Poole of Fishponds was the Undertaker for my Gt. Grandfather: > John Charles Worth (1830-97) of Filwood Rd. Hi Edna, You probably already know this, but John POOLE, draper and undertaker, was listed in Fishponds Road, Fishponds next to your grandmother, Ada Amelia BLAKE, newsagent, in Wright's Bristol Directory of 1901. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Google Books: Kellys directory of Somersetshire: with city of Bristol by Kellys (;-)) Edna - Ottawa