On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 03:30:57 +0100, jcoupe <[email protected]> wrote: > I am searching for information about the parents of Joseph HILL. He was > born in Bristol, St.Phillips parish, around 1790-1801 and died in 1832. > His wife was Elizabeth (WATERS), born in Bristol about 1790-1800, and > died in 1832. > I am also interested in learning Elizabeth WATERS lineage. Her parents > may have been Benjamin and Sarah WATERS who were born about 1769 in St. > Phillips parish. Hi Judy, A possible match could be that of Benjamin WATERS and Sarah THOMPSON, who were married, by banns, om 28th. October 1788 at the church of St. James, Bristol. Both were of the parish. This marriage is included in Bristol Diocese Marriage Registers Vol 9 Groom and Bride Indexes & Transcripts 1754-1812 produced by Bristol & Avon Family History Society. www.bafhs.org.uk Josephine

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 03:30:57 +0100, jcoupe <[email protected]> wrote: > I am searching for information about the parents of Joseph HILL. He was > born in Bristol, St.Phillips parish, around 1790-1801 and died in 1832. > His wife was Elizabeth (WATERS), born inBristol about 1790-1800, and > died in 1832. > I am also interested in learning Elizabeth WATERS lineage. Her parents > may have been Benjamin and Sarah WATERS who were born about 1769 in St. > Phillips parish. Hi Judy, In my previous message I mentioned that Joseph HILL, brick and tile maker, was made a Bristol Burgess on 2nd. June 1823. His qualification to be made a Bristol Burgess was through his marriage to Elizabeth, daughter of Benjamin WATERS, wine hooper, who was a Bristol Burgess. Benjamin WATERS, wine hooper, was made a Bristol Burgess on 7th. April 1784. His qualification to be made a Bristol Burgess was as apprentice of Charles WITHINGTON. The source of this information is Bristol Burgess Books Vols.1 to 21 Index & Transcripts 1557 - 1995 produced by Bristol & Avon Family History Society. www.bafhs.org.uk Josephine

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 03:30:57 +0100, jcoupe <[email protected]> wrote: > I am searching for information about the parents of Joseph HILL. He was > born in Bristol, St.Phillips parish, around 1790-1801 and died in 1832. > His wife was Elizabeth (WATERS), born inBristol about 1790-1800, and > died in 1832. > I am also interested in learning Elizabeth WATERS lineage. Her > parents>may have been Benjamin andSarah WATERS who were born about 1769 > in St. Phillips parish. Hi Judy, Joseph HILL, brick and tile maker, was made a Bristol Burgess on 2nd. June 1823. His qualification to be made a Bristol Burgess was through his marriage to Elizabeth, daughter of Benjamin WATERS, wine hooper, who was a Bristol Burgess. The source of this information is Bristol Burgess Books Vols.1 to 21 Index & Transcripts 1557 - 1995 produced by Bristol & Avon Family History Society. www.bafhs.org.uk Josephine

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 03:30:57 +0100, jcoupe <[email protected]> wrote: > I am searching for information about the parents of Joseph > HILL. He was born in Bristol, St. Phillips parish, around 1790-1801 and > died in 1832. Hi Judy, A possible match could be Joseph HILL, the son of Joseph and Charlotte, who was baptized on 12th. July 1801, at the age of 2 years 11 months, at the church of St. Philip & St. Jacob, Bristol. Abode was The Marsh and father's occupation was tile maker. A brother, Henry, noted as an infant, was baptized at the same church on the same day. These baptisms are included in Bristol Diocese Baptismal Registers Vols. 8 to 10 Index & Transcripts 1754-1812 produced by Bristol & Avon Family History Society. www.bafhs.org.uk Josephine

Hi Josephine, Thank you so much for the information and the sources for Joseph HILL and Elizabeth WATERS families.  It all seems to fit into what I have researched.  Could you tell me what or where The Marsh was in Bristol that you mentioned as their abode?  Judy

I am researching an early Pittman or Pitman line from Virginia. Some Ancestry trees list the following person from Bitton (I have not verified this info): Thomas Pitman (1564-1604), born in Bittin, Gloucestershire, England, died in Wickwar, Gloucestershire, England Is there a Gloucestershire or other UK Pittman/Pitman out there who is currently reseaching this line? Thanks.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I guess it was purely an act of counting the population and their demographic in those times, they weren’t really interested in individual people, occupations, family groups etc Early censuses served the purpose of the time. Thank goodness they decided to take it another step further! Amanda NZ

Hello, I am searching for information about the parents of Joseph HILL.  He was born in Bristol, St. Phillips parish, around 1790-1801 and died in 1832.  His wife was Elizabeth (WATERS), born in Bristol about 1790-1800, and died in 1832.  Joseph was the owner of the Plume of Feathers Pub (now Castle Green Pub) from 1828-1832. They were married in 1822. They had three children Charlotte b. 1828, Sarah b. 1829, and Elizabeth b.1823.   I am also interested in learning Elizabeth WATERS lineage.  Her parents may have been Benjamin and Sarah WATERS who were born about 1769 in St. Phillips parish.  Joseph & Elizabeth died within months of each other.  Their children were then orphans and Charlotte, my 2X gr grandmother, was the first orphan at George Muller’s Orphanage in Bristol.  Muller recorded information about Charlotte and her plight in his admission book.  Her mother Elizabeth had died suddenly of some sort of infection and had not told her husband where she had hidden their savings of 300 pounds.  The once wealthy family was destitute and then Joseph  died but of an unknown cause. Eventually Charlotte became a house maid for an attorney until she married Joseph COX in 1851 at St. Mary’s Redcliff and then a few months later emigrated to Iowa in the USA. I have been searching for quite a while on familysearch.org and Freereg.  Thank you for any help. Judy Cooper

The list has mentioned censuses pre 1841. There was a list of men able to fight for King James I taken in 1608 by John Smyth who was the Steward to the Gloucestershire lands of Lord Berkeley of Berkeley Castle, Gloucestershire. John Smyth went from parish to parish and listed those men able to fight and described their rough age and stature as to which weapon they could bear for the King or what weapons they already possessed. Whilst this is by no means a census it is a useful guide as to where your Gloucestershire ancestors lived in 1608. I used to look at the actual volumes at the library but note that the details are now online if you google "Men and Armour for Gloucestershire in 1608" and a searchable database is on Coaley.net I don't think it is a list of all males in Gloucestershire parishes but it may list the person you've been looking for for years. There was also a list of inhabitants of Bristol in 1696, parish by parish. This is also now online and may be a useful finding aid for you. Bernice in Bristol

Hi Nancy, the book is called “Stories from St Phillip’s – A Trilogy of Local History” by Ian S Bishop. It’s great for general Bristol History too, lots of anecdotes, very readable. i picked it up in a second hand book store here in NZ after having seen it online lots of times. Re the census, we’ll have to wait n see if someone knows something about them! Regards Amanda From: Nancy Lange Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [B&S] Bristol Census Prior to 1841 Hi Amanda, What book are you reading about St Phillip & Jacob??? My people were in that parish for many, many years ... I think I'd like to read that book ... also, I'd love to find those earlier censuses too ... So if there's any information, it would be appreciated in the US too. Thanks, Nancy Lange Auburn, California Searching for Sheat, Scrase/Scrace in Bristol -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 5:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [B&S] Bristol Census Prior to 1841 Hi everyone, I'm reading a book on St Phillips & Jacob area at present and it mentions the censuses taken in Bristol starting in 1801 and every ten years thereafter. So what happened to these early pre-1841 censuses? Do they exist still somewhere? is the information in them too crude to be useful perhaps? Maybe they are available through mormon Family history libraries on film. Any information would be great! Amanda Kerby NZ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi everyone, I'm reading a book on St Phillips & Jacob area at present and it mentions the censuses taken in Bristol starting in 1801 and every ten years thereafter. So what happened to these early pre-1841 censuses? Do they exist still somewhere? is the information in them too crude to be useful perhaps? Maybe they are available through mormon Family history libraries on film. Any information would be great! Amanda Kerby NZ

From: "Dave Napier" <[email protected]> > Censuses taken before 1841 will be of little value to you because > they were numbers only jobs. Sometimes you may make a rare find where a local > vicar made an unofficial list in a register in order to complete the > required return but 1801 -1831 censuses generally do not contain information > that identifies individuals.> That is not strictly speaking an entirely accurate reply, although it depends on what you mean by "rare"! "Local Census Listings 1522-1930: Holdings in the British Isles" by Jeremy Gibson and Mervyn Medlycott (one of the near-legendary - at least to we older family historians who have been at it since long before the Internet was invented - series called Gibson Guides) lists more than 750 parishes in which names are given for the censuses of 1801-1831. They are mostly householders only with numbers in each house, sometimes divided into numbers of males and females and sometimes into age groupings. My edition of this valuable little book is dated 1997, so probably more have been discovered since then. The Gibson Guides were originally published by the Federation of Family History Societies. What happened, as Dave says, is that the enumerator - who was often either the vicar or village schoolmaster - was conscientious enough to make a list of householders (in a few rare cases even all the inhabitants) and kept them after sending the mathematical returns to London. Sometimes this was done for points of reference, to make sure no-one was missed or that someone wasn't counted twice. Some of these unofficial lists found their way into record offices and survive. There are other lists such as ecclesiastical censuses, Easter Books, Communicants Lists and Incumbents' Visiting Books, some dating back to the 16th century. These were taken because the Church wanted to "keep tabs" on its flocks of parishioners. These lists and those unofficial ones from the censuses of 1801-31 were sometimes useful to the local Poor Law officers as well. The Gibson-Medlycott book I mention at the start of this message lists all known local census listings throughout the British Isles including England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, the Channel Isles and the Isle of Man, alphabetically county by county. Under Gloucestershire and Bristol it lists a whole page of these unofficial censuses and where they can be found. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Bristol Record Office has a copy of 1831 census for Bitton which names heads of household, lists the number of males and females in each household and gives their ages. With care it is possible to recognise families from this information but the list would include others living at the same address including servants. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josephine Jeremiah" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 7:26 AM Subject: [B&S] Bitton censuses 1801-1831 (Bristol Census Prior to 1841) > > Hi Listers, > > I have information concerning the 1801, 1811, 1821 and 1831 population > figures for > Bitton from the handwritten notes of H.T. Ellacombe curate then vicar. > > Bitton 1801 > > Bitton 1,094 > Hanham 795 > Oldland 3,103 > > Total 4,992 > > Bitton 1811 > > Males 731 > Females 755 > > Hamlet of Hanham 1811 > > Males 435 > Females 499 > > Hamlet of Oldland 1811 > > Males 1,753 > Females 1,888 > > In 1811, total inhabitants in the whole parish 6,061 > > Bitton 1821 > Total inhabitants 7,171 > > Bitton 1831 > Total inhabitants 8,703 > > Josephine > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Amanda, Dave and those interested in census Dave is quite right in his comments re census before 1841. But occasionally you are lucky and find something useful. There is a census taken in 1803 by Samuel James rector of St Nicholas Church, Radstock, of the inhabitants of Radstock. He lists all the households, the heads by name and age, marital status, and inhabitants of the house but not by name in their case, just status and sex. For example, Thomas LATCHEM, 40, 1 wife, 2 sons and 1 daughter. He also lists lodgers and servants. William Latchem 18...but was he a lodger or a servant? And whose house was he living in? He has an interesting summary in number of male housekeepers, female housekeepers, wives and female servants (isn't that a lovely way of enumerating wives!), male children, female children, lodgers and male servants. I just came on it when going through a film of the parish records of Radstock at the local LDS Family History Centre. So many odd things are found when looking at the actual records. Oh, yes, he also lists number of oxen, cows, young cattle, sheep, pigs, riding horses and draft horses. Helps in picturing the village/town in 1803. Maybe it would be an interesting time looking at the parish records for St Philips & Jacob! Marjorie Latcham Keates Canada >Censuses taken before 1841 will be of little value to you because they were >numbers only jobs. Sometimes you may make a rare find where a local vicar >made an unofficial list in a register in order to complete the required >return but 1801 -1831 censuses generally do not contain information that >identifies individuals. > >Dave > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >[email protected] >Sent: 21 August 2012 01:27 >To: [email protected] >Subject: [B&S] Bristol Census Prior to 1841 > > >Hi everyone, > >I'm reading a book on St Phillips & Jacob area at present and it mentions >the censuses taken in Bristol starting in 1801 and every ten years >thereafter. >So what happened to these early pre-1841 censuses? Do they exist still >somewhere? is the information in them too crude to be useful perhaps? >Maybe they are available through mormon Family history libraries on film. > >Any information would be great! > >Amanda Kerby >NZ

Hi Amanda The censuses that were taken in the years 1801, 1811, 1821 and 1831 were published as statistical tables only and all of these can be found on the HistPop website: http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/ A few survive at a local level, some with some names, ie Head of household, and a few with more details. Look on GENUKI for details of these: http://www.genuki.org.uk/ HTH Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:27 AM Subject: [B&S] Bristol Census Prior to 1841 Hi everyone, I'm reading a book on St Phillips & Jacob area at present and it mentions the censuses taken in Bristol starting in 1801 and every ten years thereafter. So what happened to these early pre-1841 censuses? Do they exist still somewhere? is the information in them too crude to be useful perhaps? Maybe they are available through mormon Family history libraries on film. Any information would be great! Amanda Kerby NZ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Amanda, I'd love to find out about earlier census records too. My line comes from Bristol. Michele South Africa -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 21 August 2012 02:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [B&S] Bristol Census Prior to 1841 Hi everyone, I'm reading a book on St Phillips & Jacob area at present and it mentions the censuses taken in Bristol starting in 1801 and every ten years thereafter. So what happened to these early pre-1841 censuses? Do they exist still somewhere? is the information in them too crude to be useful perhaps? Maybe they are available through mormon Family history libraries on film. Any information would be great! Amanda Kerby NZ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 07:15:24 +0100, Dave Napier <[email protected]> wrote: > Censuses taken before 1841 will be of little value to you because they > were numbers only jobs. Sometimes you may make a rare find where a > local vicar made an unofficial list in a register in order to complete > the required > return but 1801 -1831 censuses generally do not contain information that > identifies individuals. Hi Listers, I have information concerning the 1801, 1811, 1821 and 1831 population figures for Bitton from the handwritten notes of H.T. Ellacombe curate then vicar. Bitton 1801 Bitton 1,094 Hanham 795 Oldland 3,103 Total 4,992 Bitton 1811 Males 731 Females 755 Hamlet of Hanham 1811 Males 435 Females 499 Hamlet of Oldland 1811 Males 1,753 Females 1,888 In 1811, total inhabitants in the whole parish 6,061 Bitton 1821 Total inhabitants 7,171 Bitton 1831 Total inhabitants 8,703 Josephine

Censuses taken before 1841 will be of little value to you because they were numbers only jobs. Sometimes you may make a rare find where a local vicar made an unofficial list in a register in order to complete the required return but 1801 -1831 censuses generally do not contain information that identifies individuals. Dave -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 21 August 2012 01:27 To: [email protected] Subject: [B&S] Bristol Census Prior to 1841 Hi everyone, I'm reading a book on St Phillips & Jacob area at present and it mentions the censuses taken in Bristol starting in 1801 and every ten years thereafter. So what happened to these early pre-1841 censuses? Do they exist still somewhere? is the information in them too crude to be useful perhaps? Maybe they are available through mormon Family history libraries on film. Any information would be great! Amanda Kerby NZ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For anyone interested in this book (after the pre 1841 discussion), you can find it at the Bristol & Avon FHS: http://www.bafhs.org.uk/bafhs-shop/books Happy reading, Eileen

Hi Amanda, What book are you reading about St Phillip & Jacob??? My people were in that parish for many, many years ... I think I'd like to read that book ... also, I'd love to find those earlier censuses too ... So if there's any information, it would be appreciated in the US too. Thanks, Nancy Lange Auburn, California Searching for Sheat, Scrase/Scrace in Bristol -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 5:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [B&S] Bristol Census Prior to 1841 Hi everyone, I'm reading a book on St Phillips & Jacob area at present and it mentions the censuses taken in Bristol starting in 1801 and every ten years thereafter. So what happened to these early pre-1841 censuses? Do they exist still somewhere? is the information in them too crude to be useful perhaps? Maybe they are available through mormon Family history libraries on film. Any information would be great! Amanda Kerby NZ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message