Hi. This is my first post and I am a bit of a newbie to all this but have come across an interesting conundrum which you experts MAY be able to point me in the direction of unravelling Also apologies if this is a bit long but bear with me, you will see that I couldnt really shorten it much! I am looking at the branch of the Bayntons which ended up in Bristol from Bromham, Wilts via Mells, Som. William Baynton (1799) married (in 1823) Sophia Buckler (1796) who is recorded in later censuses as born in Abbots Leigh They had 2 sons, William (1824) and Robert (1827) In the 1841 census William (senior) and Sophia are recorded as running the Angel Inn in Long Ashton. William (Junior) and Robert have left home and their household is; William Baynton 40 Sophia Baynton 45 Sarah Lock 25 Plus 4 servants (presumably pub staff) In the 1851 census the couple have moved to an address in Bower Ashton Terrace and William is recorded as a Coal Merchant and their household is; William Baynton 49 Sophia Baynton 58 Emma Knight UNMARRIED DAUGHTER born Long Ashton 23 Ellen Locke GRANDCHILD born Bedminster 7 John Locke GRANDSON born Newport Mon. 8 Lionel Locke GRANDSON born Bedminster 3 Ann Vowles Servant 20 The question arises where does Emma Knight come into the picture? And of whom is she the daughter, William or Sophia and where does the name Knight come from? Furthermore whose are the three Locke children? If they ARE grandchildren of William or Sophia then they don't seem to be offspring of the two legitimate sons who I have tracked and are apparently happily married elsewhere. The likelihood is that they are Emma Knight's. She would have been 16 when the first, Ellen was conceived. So who is Locke the father of these three? A search on the youngest of the three 'grandchildren' Lionel Locke born about 1848 in the 1861 census leads us to the household of Lewis Locke at 3 Clouds Hill Villas St George. Lewis is 50 and the Manager of an Iron Mine. The household is Lewis Locke head 50 Sarah Locke wife 44 Sylvina Locke daughter 11 Lionel Locke son 13 This then is almost certainly the SAME Sarah Locke recorded as being at the Angel Inn in 1841 and the daughter of William or Sophia Baynton SO, if Sarah Locke & Lewis Locke are the parents of Lionel (and Sylvina) and by implication of John and Ellen (who could well have flown the nest by 1861) what were they doing living with my 3 x Great Grand Parents in a Coal Merchant's house in 1851 being recorded as their grandchildren, without a parent. And WHO was Emma Knight - was she REALLY an illegitimate daughter of William or Sophia? There is one final twist to this story. William Baynton was a son of John Baynton and the only one of the sons not to go into found Baynton's Brewery at Ashton Gate (where Baynton Road now is just up from the City Ground) but according to Theo Baynton's book on the Bayntons there is evidence that he (William not Theo!) selected the site for the brewery and designed the layout of Ashton Vale Colliery He had strong connections with this colliery The excellent Coal Mining History Resource website http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/database/cmhrc?text_search=baynton&action=search_by_keyword Records the owner as Baynton and KNIGHT When the colliery finished, I understand that the business became The Ashton Vale Iron Company Limited The Ashton Vale Iron Company Limited was registered on 17 June 1864 as the successor to a series of partnerships which included Baynton, Knight and Co., Knight, Abbots and Co. and Edwin Knight and Co. Note the name KNIGHT keeps on cropping up is there any connection to the enigmatic Emma Knight? Any tips?

I have looked at Long Ashton baptisms and could find one Emma Knight. 1826 Aug 31 Emma Sophia to Richard and Sophia Knight, Long Ashton, tiler and plasterer.   Regards Mary. Mary`s Portbury Hundred records at: http://www.portbury-hundred.co.uk --- On Sat, 15/5/10, roger baynton <baynton@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: From: roger baynton <baynton@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: [B&D] A conundrum To: "Bristol & Dist Roots web" <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, 15 May, 2010, 17:38 Hi. This is my first post and I am a bit of a newbie to all this but have come across an interesting conundrum which you experts MAY be able to point me in the direction of unravelling Also apologies if this is a  bit long but bear with me, you will see that I couldnt really shorten it much! I am looking at the branch of the Bayntons which ended up in Bristol from Bromham, Wilts via Mells, Som. William Baynton (1799) married (in 1823) Sophia Buckler (1796) who is recorded in later censuses as born in Abbots Leigh They had 2 sons, William (1824) and Robert (1827) In the 1841 census William (senior) and Sophia are recorded as running the Angel Inn in Long Ashton. William (Junior) and Robert have left home and their household is; William Baynton 40 Sophia Baynton 45 Sarah Lock 25 Plus 4 servants (presumably pub staff) In the 1851 census the couple have moved to an address in Bower Ashton Terrace and William is recorded as a Coal Merchant and their household is; William Baynton 49 Sophia Baynton 58 Emma Knight UNMARRIED DAUGHTER born Long Ashton 23 Ellen Locke GRANDCHILD born Bedminster 7 John Locke GRANDSON born Newport Mon. 8 Lionel Locke GRANDSON born Bedminster 3 Ann Vowles Servant 20 The question arises where does Emma Knight come into the picture? And of whom is she the daughter, William or Sophia and where does the name Knight come from? Furthermore whose are the three Locke children? If they ARE grandchildren of William or Sophia then they don't seem to be offspring of the two legitimate sons who I have tracked and are apparently happily married elsewhere. The likelihood is that they are Emma Knight's. She would have been 16 when the first, Ellen was conceived. So who is Locke the father of these three? A search on the youngest of the three 'grandchildren' Lionel Locke born about 1848 in the 1861 census leads us to the household of Lewis Locke at 3 Clouds Hill Villas St George. Lewis is 50 and the Manager of an Iron Mine. The household is Lewis Locke head 50 Sarah Locke wife 44 Sylvina Locke daughter 11 Lionel Locke son 13 This then is almost certainly the SAME Sarah Locke recorded as being at the Angel Inn in 1841 and the daughter of William or Sophia Baynton SO, if Sarah Locke & Lewis Locke are the parents of Lionel (and Sylvina) and by implication of John and Ellen (who could well have flown the nest by 1861) what were they doing living with my 3 x Great Grand Parents in a Coal Merchant's house in 1851 being recorded as their grandchildren, without a parent. And WHO was Emma Knight - was she REALLY an illegitimate daughter of William or Sophia? There is one final twist to this story. William Baynton was a son of John Baynton and the only one of the sons not to go into found Baynton's Brewery at Ashton Gate (where Baynton Road now is just up from the City Ground) but according to Theo Baynton's book on the Bayntons there is evidence that he (William not Theo!)  selected the site for the brewery and designed the layout of Ashton Vale Colliery He had strong connections with this colliery The excellent Coal Mining History Resource website http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/database/cmhrc?text_search=baynton&action=search_by_keyword Records the owner as Baynton and KNIGHT When the colliery finished, I understand that the business became The Ashton Vale Iron Company Limited The Ashton Vale Iron Company Limited was registered on 17 June 1864 as the successor to a series of partnerships which included Baynton, Knight and Co., Knight, Abbots and Co. and Edwin Knight and Co. Note the name KNIGHT keeps on cropping up is there any connection to the enigmatic Emma Knight? Any tips? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

first thought is Sophia BUCKLER ? KNIGHT was married before at least once in 1824 she would be 31 years old when William BAYNTON was born Sarah LOCK 25 would be a married daughter? does it say daughter? Step daughter, daughter in law ? married ? on 1841 all three of her children born after 1841 census sarah born 1816 when Sophia was 23 years old look for Lewis LOCK on 1851 census and his marriage look for Sophia marriage before 1816 possible no marriage just kids Emma KNIGHT could be a sister to Sarah and daughter of Sophia Knight but born 1828 ( as 1851 census age) which would make no sense ? was she older? can you find her on 1841 census 1861 census if she later married get the certificate it will state mum and dad jim On 15-May-10, at 9:38 AM, roger baynton wrote: > Hi. This is my first post and I am a bit of a newbie to all this > but have > come across an interesting conundrum which you experts MAY be able > to point > me in the direction of unravelling > Also apologies if this is a bit long but bear with me, you will > see that I > couldnt really shorten it much! > I am looking at the branch of the Bayntons which ended up in > Bristol from > Bromham, Wilts via Mells, Som. > > William Baynton (1799) married (in 1823) Sophia Buckler (1796) who is > recorded in later censuses as born in Abbots Leigh > They had 2 sons, William (1824) and Robert (1827) > In the 1841 census William (senior) and Sophia are recorded as > running the > Angel Inn in Long Ashton. William (Junior) and Robert have left > home and > their household is; > William Baynton > 40 > Sophia Baynton > 45 > Sarah Lock > 25 > Plus 4 servants (presumably pub staff) > > In the 1851 census the couple have moved to an address in Bower Ashton > Terrace and William is recorded as a Coal Merchant and their > household is; > > William Baynton > 49 > Sophia Baynton > 58 > Emma Knight UNMARRIED DAUGHTER born Long Ashton > 23 > Ellen Locke GRANDCHILD born Bedminster > 7 > John Locke GRANDSON born Newport Mon. > 8 > Lionel Locke GRANDSON born Bedminster > 3 > Ann Vowles Servant > 20 > > The question arises where does Emma Knight come into the picture? > And of > whom is she the daughter, William or Sophia and where does the name > Knight > come from? > Furthermore whose are the three Locke children? If they ARE > grandchildren of > William or Sophia then they don't seem to be offspring of the two > legitimate > sons who I have tracked and are apparently happily married > elsewhere. The > likelihood is that they are Emma Knight's. She would have been 16 > when the > first, Ellen was conceived. > > So who is Locke the father of these three? > A search on the youngest of the three 'grandchildren' Lionel Locke > born > about 1848 in the 1861 census leads us to the household of Lewis > Locke at 3 > Clouds Hill Villas St George. Lewis is 50 and the Manager of an > Iron Mine. > The household is > > Lewis Locke head > 50 > Sarah Locke wife > 44 > Sylvina Locke daughter > 11 > Lionel Locke son > 13 > > This then is almost certainly the SAME Sarah Locke recorded as > being at the > Angel Inn in 1841 and the daughter of William or Sophia Baynton > > SO, if Sarah Locke & Lewis Locke are the parents of Lionel (and > Sylvina) and > by implication of John and Ellen (who could well have flown the > nest by > 1861) what were they doing living with my 3 x Great Grand Parents > in a Coal > Merchant's house in 1851 being recorded as their grandchildren, > without a > parent. And WHO was Emma Knight - was she REALLY an illegitimate > daughter of > William or Sophia? > > There is one final twist to this story. William Baynton was a son > of John > Baynton and the only one of the sons not to go into found Baynton's > Brewery > at Ashton Gate (where Baynton Road now is just up from the City > Ground) but > according to Theo Baynton's book on the Bayntons there is evidence > that he > (William not Theo!) selected the site for the brewery and designed > the > layout of Ashton Vale Colliery > He had strong connections with this colliery > > > The excellent Coal Mining History Resource website > http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/database/cmhrc? > text_search=baynton&action=search_by_keyword > > Records the owner as Baynton and KNIGHT > > When the colliery finished, I understand that the business became > The Ashton > Vale Iron Company Limited > The Ashton Vale Iron Company Limited was registered on 17 June 1864 > as the > successor to a series of partnerships which included Baynton, > Knight and > Co., Knight, Abbots and Co. and Edwin Knight and Co. > > Note the name KNIGHT keeps on cropping up is there any connection > to the > enigmatic Emma Knight? > > Any tips? > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message

BAYNTON, this is a very old name in Bristol including a book written in 1797 by Thomas BAYNTON a surgeon of Bristol On 15-May-10, at 9:38 AM, roger baynton wrote: >

Hello Roger Re. > So who is Locke the father of these three? > A search on the youngest of the three 'grandchildren' Lionel Locke born > about 1848 in the 1861 census leads us to the household of Lewis Locke at > 3 > Clouds Hill Villas St George. Lewis is 50 and the Manager of an Iron Mine. > The household is Lewis Locke head 50 Sarah Locke wife 44 Sylvina Locke daughter 11 Lionel Locke son 13 > This then is almost certainly the SAME Sarah Locke recorded as being at > the > Angel Inn in 1841 and the daughter of William or Sophia Baynton> >From Free BMD (www.freebmd.org) Lewis LOCKE married Sarah Holyman KNIGHT in September qtr 1840 Williton district. So it looks like Sarah and Emma were sisters. In 1841 Lewis is in Newport - occupation Brewer. In 1851 Lewis and Sarah are in Bedminster - daughter Sylvana is with them. Lewis' occupation is traveller. If you get a copy of Lewis and Sarah's marriage certificate it should tell you who Sarah's father was. Will send copies of the census entries off list. Cheers, Fee in Bristol

Hello again Roger. According to the IGI from www.familysearch.org William BAYNTON married Cornelia BUCKLER in Warminster in 1823 and had offspring William Buckler BAYNTON in 1824 and Robert Ashman BAYNTON in 1827. Sarah Hollyman KNIGHT born 1816 and Emma Sophia KNIGHT born 1826 are listed as being the daughters of Richard KNIGHT and Sophia as well as a third daughter Jane Ellen who was born in 1831. >From Free BMD William BAYNTON married in Septembe qtr 1839 Bedminster district to Sophia KNIGHT. So it looks like the Knight girls were step-daughters of William BAYNTON. Given the middle name of Sarah Hollyman KNIGHT I would guess that her mother's maiden name was Hollyman. >From the census entries Sophia (wife of William BAYNTON) was born in Abbots Leigh c. 1793. The IGI lists a Sophia HOLLYMAN Christened 1790 Abbots Leigh. Hope this helps. Fee