Dear all, Charani said <quote> [...] Where an individual is not recorded as being deceased, the information will not be disclosed unless the applicant can produce clear evidence which establishes that a death has taken place. *A death certificate may not, in itself, provide sufficient evidence.* </quote> I, with my family history hat on, and my usual kinky SOH wondered if the NHS IC wanted sight of a mouldering body or the ashes before they accept that Fred Bloggs is definitely dead? Will they want to carry out DNA tests - indeed do they work after a cremation and the grinding down of the bones, which do not burn? I'd love to meet up with that backroom civil servant who coined those words! IMHO, when challenged, NHS staff back down, with some sort of unacceptable (and see-through) excuses. Trust me, I am a member of my local LINk (Local Involvement Network) and see these Jobsworths up to and including Richmond House (NHS HQ) level, and the way their minds work. If a death cert and the usual certificated death by a doctor is now not necessarily sufficient, what more does the NHS require? When so many people are dying of Healthcare Associated illnesses like MRSA and C Diff, are we seeing signs of a massive cover-up (as usual) by them? <lol> Does any one know why this is in the hands of the NHS and not the Registrar General or whoever the keeper of Censuses is these days? As I understand it, the 1939 "survey" by definition pre-dated the start of the NHS. The 42 GBP fee (aka stealth tax), is this per person or household? My parents will be on it, living as a married couple, in the Bristol area - they both worked for Frys at K E Y N S H A M - Somerdale, dad as a personnel manager. Not HR in them days! I hope 42 quid (and not 84) would be payable? Many thanks Phil Orpington, SE London & Kent.

Interesting Phil. On a slightly different tack. For a long time I've been looking for my mother's uncle. His son is still alive and would love to know what happened to his father. I rather think we will never know. He would definitely be dead by now as he was born in 1893. He was a surveying mining apprentice in 1911 so you could imagine he might have travelled abroad but I doubt it as my mother always told me that he was a tramp (I gather he just couldn't cope with life and left his wife and two sons) and if she saw him around she was always scared of him. His son has asked me to try and track him down - he says he believes he saw him in 1949 and so he should have died after that date but it's very difficult to track down tramps. I tried using various ideas on the GRO - putting Unknown or Unidentified in instead of names - it's surprising what shows up. A tramp could end up anywhere. This isn't really a B&D problem although the son lives in Thornbury, I just thought I could air him to see what other members might do to track down a lost relative who would not have travelled abroad and who is definitely dead now. I imagine in 1940s and 50s there was no DNA but today I feel sure the authorities would take DNA from a dead unknown so that they could try and trace them at some time in the future. What other combinations would other members use apart from Unknown or Unidentified when looking for dead family members. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Warn" <philwarnorp@googlemail.com> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: [B&D] When is some one dead? > Dear all, > > Charani said > > > <quote> > [...] Where an individual is not recorded as being deceased, the > information will not be disclosed unless the applicant can produce > clear evidence which establishes that a death has taken place. *A > death certificate may not, in itself, provide sufficient evidence.* > </quote> > > I, with my family history hat on, and my usual kinky SOH wondered if > the NHS IC wanted sight of a mouldering body or the ashes before they > accept that Fred Bloggs is definitely dead? Will they want to carry > out DNA tests - indeed do they work after a cremation and the grinding > down of the bones, which do not burn? I'd love to meet up with that > backroom civil servant who coined those words! IMHO, when challenged, > NHS staff back down, with some sort of unacceptable (and see-through) > excuses. Trust me, I am a member of my local LINk (Local Involvement > Network) and see these Jobsworths up to and including Richmond House > (NHS HQ) level, and the way their minds work. > > If a death cert and the usual certificated death by a doctor is now > not necessarily sufficient, what more does the NHS require? > > When so many people are dying of Healthcare Associated illnesses like > MRSA and C Diff, are we seeing signs of a massive cover-up (as usual) > by them? <lol> > > Does any one know why this is in the hands of the NHS and not the > Registrar General or whoever the keeper of Censuses is these days? > > As I understand it, the 1939 "survey" by definition pre-dated the > start of the NHS. > > The 42 GBP fee (aka stealth tax), is this per person or household? > > My parents will be on it, living as a married couple, in the Bristol > area - they both worked for Frys at K E Y N S H A M - Somerdale, dad > as a personnel manager. Not HR in them days! > > I hope 42 quid (and not 84) would be payable? > > Many thanks > > Phil > Orpington, SE London & Kent. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:53:44 +0000 Phil Warn <philwarnorp@googlemail.com> wrote: Hello Phil, > The 42 GBP fee (aka stealth tax), is this per person or household? Up to 10 people, at the same address. And you might wish to think of it as a tax, but it's going to take a person away from their usual job to do the look up and any necessary copy work, etc. This could easily entail more than an hour's work. Then the job they /should/ have been doing has to be done. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"