On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:53:44 +0000 Phil Warn <philwarnorp@googlemail.com> wrote: Hello Phil, > The 42 GBP fee (aka stealth tax), is this per person or household? Up to 10 people, at the same address. And you might wish to think of it as a tax, but it's going to take a person away from their usual job to do the look up and any necessary copy work, etc. This could easily entail more than an hour's work. Then the job they /should/ have been doing has to be done. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"
Interesting Phil. On a slightly different tack. For a long time I've been looking for my mother's uncle. His son is still alive and would love to know what happened to his father. I rather think we will never know. He would definitely be dead by now as he was born in 1893. He was a surveying mining apprentice in 1911 so you could imagine he might have travelled abroad but I doubt it as my mother always told me that he was a tramp (I gather he just couldn't cope with life and left his wife and two sons) and if she saw him around she was always scared of him. His son has asked me to try and track him down - he says he believes he saw him in 1949 and so he should have died after that date but it's very difficult to track down tramps. I tried using various ideas on the GRO - putting Unknown or Unidentified in instead of names - it's surprising what shows up. A tramp could end up anywhere. This isn't really a B&D problem although the son lives in Thornbury, I just thought I could air him to see what other members might do to track down a lost relative who would not have travelled abroad and who is definitely dead now. I imagine in 1940s and 50s there was no DNA but today I feel sure the authorities would take DNA from a dead unknown so that they could try and trace them at some time in the future. What other combinations would other members use apart from Unknown or Unidentified when looking for dead family members. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Warn" <philwarnorp@googlemail.com> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: [B&D] When is some one dead? > Dear all, > > Charani said > > > <quote> > [...] Where an individual is not recorded as being deceased, the > information will not be disclosed unless the applicant can produce > clear evidence which establishes that a death has taken place. *A > death certificate may not, in itself, provide sufficient evidence.* > </quote> > > I, with my family history hat on, and my usual kinky SOH wondered if > the NHS IC wanted sight of a mouldering body or the ashes before they > accept that Fred Bloggs is definitely dead? Will they want to carry > out DNA tests - indeed do they work after a cremation and the grinding > down of the bones, which do not burn? I'd love to meet up with that > backroom civil servant who coined those words! IMHO, when challenged, > NHS staff back down, with some sort of unacceptable (and see-through) > excuses. Trust me, I am a member of my local LINk (Local Involvement > Network) and see these Jobsworths up to and including Richmond House > (NHS HQ) level, and the way their minds work. > > If a death cert and the usual certificated death by a doctor is now > not necessarily sufficient, what more does the NHS require? > > When so many people are dying of Healthcare Associated illnesses like > MRSA and C Diff, are we seeing signs of a massive cover-up (as usual) > by them? <lol> > > Does any one know why this is in the hands of the NHS and not the > Registrar General or whoever the keeper of Censuses is these days? > > As I understand it, the 1939 "survey" by definition pre-dated the > start of the NHS. > > The 42 GBP fee (aka stealth tax), is this per person or household? > > My parents will be on it, living as a married couple, in the Bristol > area - they both worked for Frys at K E Y N S H A M - Somerdale, dad > as a personnel manager. Not HR in them days! > > I hope 42 quid (and not 84) would be payable? > > Many thanks > > Phil > Orpington, SE London & Kent. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Dear all, Charani said <quote> [...] Where an individual is not recorded as being deceased, the information will not be disclosed unless the applicant can produce clear evidence which establishes that a death has taken place. *A death certificate may not, in itself, provide sufficient evidence.* </quote> I, with my family history hat on, and my usual kinky SOH wondered if the NHS IC wanted sight of a mouldering body or the ashes before they accept that Fred Bloggs is definitely dead? Will they want to carry out DNA tests - indeed do they work after a cremation and the grinding down of the bones, which do not burn? I'd love to meet up with that backroom civil servant who coined those words! IMHO, when challenged, NHS staff back down, with some sort of unacceptable (and see-through) excuses. Trust me, I am a member of my local LINk (Local Involvement Network) and see these Jobsworths up to and including Richmond House (NHS HQ) level, and the way their minds work. If a death cert and the usual certificated death by a doctor is now not necessarily sufficient, what more does the NHS require? When so many people are dying of Healthcare Associated illnesses like MRSA and C Diff, are we seeing signs of a massive cover-up (as usual) by them? <lol> Does any one know why this is in the hands of the NHS and not the Registrar General or whoever the keeper of Censuses is these days? As I understand it, the 1939 "survey" by definition pre-dated the start of the NHS. The 42 GBP fee (aka stealth tax), is this per person or household? My parents will be on it, living as a married couple, in the Bristol area - they both worked for Frys at K E Y N S H A M - Somerdale, dad as a personnel manager. Not HR in them days! I hope 42 quid (and not 84) would be payable? Many thanks Phil Orpington, SE London & Kent.
Chris Jefferies wrote: > With my "Taxpayer" hat on I am pleased to see the government finding another > way to help reduce all those billions of pounds we are in debt!! However > with my "Family History" hat on it is rather a lot to pay for what is just > one census entry. It could well be a realistic price to cover the time taken > to find a record until someone digitises the data. However it may not be > practical to digitise the data because of the need to check if an individual > had died. I don't think I will be taking advantage of the service at the > moment. Nor I, now. As you say the problem is that there are many included in the Registration who are still alive. It'll be some time, I imagine, before they appear on one of the pay sites. Anyone who is looking for information on a recently deceased relative may have difficulty though because it states on the site: <quote> [...] Where an individual is not recorded as being deceased, the information will not be disclosed unless the applicant can produce clear evidence which establishes that a death has taken place. *A death certificate may not, in itself, provide sufficient evidence.* </quote> My emphasis -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk
With my "Taxpayer" hat on I am pleased to see the government finding another way to help reduce all those billions of pounds we are in debt!! However with my "Family History" hat on it is rather a lot to pay for what is just one census entry. It could well be a realistic price to cover the time taken to find a record until someone digitises the data. However it may not be practical to digitise the data because of the need to check if an individual had died. I don't think I will be taking advantage of the service at the moment. Chris Jefferies Cheltenham Glos -----Original Message----- From: bristol_and_district-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bristol_and_district-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charani Sent: 03 February 2010 12:34 PM To: B+D List Subject: [B&D] 1939 National Registration Update A while back I posted up about accessing data in the 1939 National Registration and the information I received in response to my request. It seems that there has been quite a response to the original announcement that a challenge under the FoI Act had been agreed by the Information Commissioner. An announcement has now been made that the data on *deceased* people whose deaths are recorded is now publically available but at a price! For full information: www.ic.nhs.uk/news-and-events/news/nhs-ic-launches-the-1939-register-service -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2665 - Release Date: 02/03/10 08:09:00
I am struggling to find the marriage of Francis ROTTENBURY or RATTENBURY. His has married Sarah .......... their first child seems to be Jane bapt 28 Aug 1748 at Temple, followed by Mary 1750, Sarah 1751, Betty 1754, Betty 1755, John .... all at Temple. Francis is a 'Weaver' He is on the Burgess CD, as Francis RATTENBURY, weaver, 26 June 1747 Ref 10-65-198, an apprentice of William NORWIL, also a Weaver. Francis in turn makes his son John a Burgess in 1780, he is a labourer. I can find no marriage for Francis and Sarah. Francis's father could be another Francis, also a Grandfather Francis. Grandfather could be Francis ROTTENBURY a 'Hot Presser' he could have been born abt 1650 married before 1674 when he became a Burgess, his father is also another Frances ROTTENBURY. Think he marries Anne JEFFE who was bapt 1635 Ilmington, Glos according to IGI. d/o Wm JEFFE (JEPHES)and Catherine. I have 6 children for them Anne b 1678 in Temple, Elizabeth 1676 Temple, Elizabeth 1679 Temple, Francis no date, Rachel no date but could have married in 1712 to Morris GRIFFIN, and another Frances or Francis 1674 again Temple. Francis ROTTENBURY, a Hot Presser' was made a Burgess in 1700 by his father. He was a Presser or Hot Presser 1674 - 1727 at Christchurch, St Nicolas and at the Cathedral. He was a Bondsman for John REVELL in 1695, and John SERJEANT in 1696. I would welcome any sightings of the above, or information. I am getting confused with all these Francis's, I think a Hot Presser could work with either parchment or cloth. He seems to have reached quite a high position. My line is Sarah RATTENBURY b 1751 Temple and d/o Francis and Sarah, she marries William TOVEY in 1773 St James. My 6 x Great Grandparents. Pat in Grimsby, Lincs
If you follow the link in Charani's original message, there's a link to the form and the address to send it to (with payment) www.ic.nhs.uk/news-and-events/news/nhs-ic-launches-the-1939-register-service Karen On 3 February 2010 14:35, Lynne Charles <lynnecharles7@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, Where would one apply to for this information. >
Lynne Charles wrote: > Hi, Where would one apply to for this information. All the details for how and where to apply are given in the link. You have to download a form, complete it and send it off to the address given together with your cheque. This is the link you need to click on: >> www.ic.nhs.uk/news-and-events/news/nhs-ic-launches-the-1939-register-service -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk
Hi, Where would one apply to for this information. > Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:34:06 +0000 > From: familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk > To: bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com > Subject: [B&D] 1939 National Registration Update > > A while back I posted up about accessing data in the 1939 National > Registration and the information I received in response to my request. > > It seems that there has been quite a response to the original > announcement that a challenge under the FoI Act had been agreed by the > Information Commissioner. > > An announcement has now been made that the data on *deceased* people > whose deaths are recorded is now publically available but at a price! > > For full information: > www.ic.nhs.uk/news-and-events/news/nhs-ic-launches-the-1939-register-service > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM > Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us now http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/
A while back I posted up about accessing data in the 1939 National Registration and the information I received in response to my request. It seems that there has been quite a response to the original announcement that a challenge under the FoI Act had been agreed by the Information Commissioner. An announcement has now been made that the data on *deceased* people whose deaths are recorded is now publically available but at a price! For full information: www.ic.nhs.uk/news-and-events/news/nhs-ic-launches-the-1939-register-service -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk
I am new to this list so would appreciate any help you can give me. William PHILLIPS b.abt 1793 Gloucestershire, ENG. I am looking for a marriage for him & his wife Anna.b.abt1803 I have a copy of the 1841 Census of the Family. They were living in Lower Maudlin Lane, Parish of St.James, Bristol, ENG. William PHILLIPS was a HAIRDRESSER. Only some of the Family were there in 1841. my 2xGrt/Grandmother was Martha Phillips b. 1825 & she was working as a maid in a Lodging House in Bolton Place St.Mary's ,Cheltenham, Gloucestershire. in 1841 Census. I hope this is enough information to start the search. Thanking You, Jan Gardner NZ
Roy Stockdill wrote: > What I am interested in, as a regular researcher into the ancestry of the famous, is > where the Riddifords came from originally. Research in the IGI suggests that it is > overwhelmingly a Gloucestershire surname, especially around North Nibley, and the > earliest date I can find is 1594, but that is an unsourced private submission by an LDS > member and therefore unreliable. The earliest officially extracted record I can find is at > North Nibley in 1616 of a Jone (sic, presumably Joan) RIDIFORD. Can anyone go > back further with the name? It does not seem to appear in either of my main surname > dictionaries (Reaney & Wilson and Hanks & Hodges' Oxford Dictionary of Surnames). I've had a rummage around on the Bristol & Avon FHS (BAFHS) CDs and have found a number of entries on several disks. Full details on the CDs which are available from the BAFHS. There are dozens of entries on the Gloucestershire Baptisms and Burials CDs which you can get from Gloucestershire FHS. Unfortunately it doesn't look as though either FHS will be at the WDYTYA fair. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk
On 1 Feb 2010 at 22:10, Liz wrote: > I have a Job YOUNGs but he is on the other side of Bristol. His > parents have always annoyed me. They were 1st cousins, their first > child, Job, was born 11 October 1846. I have never been able to find > a marriage and I wonder if the vicar of Winford wouldn't marry them > because of their relationship. > > Liz I imagine there must have been a number of men called Job Young in the West Country around that time - YOUNG being not exactly an uncommon name. In any event, the Job Young who was probably a brother to my ancestor Josiah Young was born earlier, since he was baptising children in 1833. I see from the the 1851 census that your Job's parents were Michael and Ann Young, but the fact you can't find a marriage doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't one. It may well simply not have made it to the IGI, especially as it was possibly after 1837 when civil registration began. Presumably you've looked at the actual parish registers for Winford and contiguous parishes? I would agree, though, that it doesn't seem to appear at FreeBMD. First cousins have never been prohibited from marrying in this country, as far as I'm aware, but I suppose some vicars did believe the relationship was too close. There are a number of examples of first-cousin marriages among the royals, William III and Queen Mary II being the classic example. They were first cousins, both being grandchildren of Charles I. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE
I have a Job YOUNGs but he is on the other side of Bristol. His parents have always annoyed me. They were 1st cousins, their first child, Job, was born 11 October 1846. I have never been able to find a marriage and I wonder if the vicar of Winford wouldn't marry them because of their relationship. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> My great-grandfather, ANDREW YOUNG, was born at Wotton-under Edge circa 1831/2, the son of Josiah Young and Mary Ann Moore, who were married at Wotton on June 6 1824. Like his father, Andrew was a weaver and worked at Frome, Kings Stanley, Stonehouse and Bath and eventually had to move north to Bradford in the 1870s when the West Country cloth trade was being decimated by the new technology of the Lancashire and Yorkshire cotton and woollen/textile mills.
Just thought I'd let you all know about a forthcoming GOONS Seminar in the area - and yes I do have to declare an interest as I am one of the speakers, talking about the ROWBERRY yDNA Project, which has already been very successful! Hope to see you there Polly The Guild of One Name Studies is organising a "DNA Developments" seminar at the National Star College, Ullenwood near Cheltenham, from 9.30am on Saturday February 20th 2010. DNA testing is changing the way we are now able to study surnames and the seminar will build on previous DNA discussions with emphasis on practical experience and the interpretation of results. The morning sessions will concentrate on project results and conclusions (looking at four specific surname studies) and consider the implications for surname studies in general. The afternoon sessions will look at the administration process (marketing and promotion, tracking down living relatives to test, fundraising and subsidies, and interpreting group results). The final session will discuss how to run a more effective project. The cost of attending is £18.00 and includes tea/coffee and a light buffet lunch. Full details and a booking form are available on the Guild website www.one-name.org Many thanks, Alan R Moorhouse [Seminar Organiser] Stroud, Gloucestershire farmery@one-name.org ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
My great-grandfather, ANDREW YOUNG, was born at Wotton-under Edge circa 1831/2, the son of Josiah Young and Mary Ann Moore, who were married at Wotton on June 6 1824. Like his father, Andrew was a weaver and worked at Frome, Kings Stanley, Stonehouse and Bath and eventually had to move north to Bradford in the 1870s when the West Country cloth trade was being decimated by the new technology of the Lancashire and Yorkshire cotton and woollen/textile mills. On April 7 1833, a multiple baptism of four children took place at Frampton on Severn, Gloucs, Independent Nonconformist (Brethren) Chapel, as follows:- Caroline Young, father Josiah Young, mother Mary Ann Andrew Young, father Josiah Young, mother Mary Ann John Young, father Job Young, mother Susannah Patience Young, father Job Young, mother Susannah * Source: IGI, Batch No. C036101, 17771837 (original registers of this chapel are at The National Archives). I assume Josiah and Job Young were probably brothers. Job married SUSANNAH CORNOCK at North Nibley in 1826. Since Frampton on Severn is some way from Wotton, I believe the family must have belonged to a fairly strict nonconformist sect and this was their nearest chapel. I recall my father, whose mother (and my grandmother) Harriet Young was one of the 9 children of Andrew and Sarah, telling me that she was of the Brethren faith. Andrew married SARAH MEAD at Rodden, near Frome, Somerset, in 1852, and they had nine children, born at Frome, Kings Stanley, Stonehouse and Bath. In the 1861 census they were at Twerton, near Bath, and by 1881 they were in Bradford. Does anyone have connections to the Youngs and Moores of Wotton-under-Edge? -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE
I wonder if there is anyone here who claims descent from the RIDDIFORD family of Thornbury? If so, you may be related to the pop singer Kylie Minogue and her sister Dannii. But you probably knew that already! Morgan John Riddiford (1876-1948) was the great-great-grandfather of the Minogue sisters on a female line. He was born at Thornbury in 1876 and in the 1891 census, aged 16, he was a prisoner in Gloucester Jail. What he was locked up for is easily found in Ancestry's England & Wales Criminal Registers 1791-1892 and there is a newspaper account of the police court hearing on the 19th Century British Newspapers website. Actually, it was for assault at Thornbury on a serving girl of 14 called Mary Ann Tandy, for which he was sentenced to 5 years' penal servitude at Gloucester Assizes in November 1890, Morgan Riddiford married Mary Ford at Bedminster, Somerset, in 1898, moved to Bristol and in the census of 1901 he appears as a tram inspector. They then moved again to Wales and in 1911 they are in Nantyffyllon, near Maesteg, Glamorgan. Morgan's great-granddaughter, Kylie and Danii's mother, Carol Ann Jones, was born at Maesteg and went to Australia with her family in 1955. All of this is well documented on the Internet and has been well publicised in national newspapers, so I am not revealing any secrets about living people. In any event, the records are in the public domain and on the Internet. What I am interested in, as a regular researcher into the ancestry of the famous, is where the Riddifords came from originally. Research in the IGI suggests that it is overwhelmingly a Gloucestershire surname, especially around North Nibley, and the earliest date I can find is 1594, but that is an unsourced private submission by an LDS member and therefore unreliable. The earliest officially extracted record I can find is at North Nibley in 1616 of a Jone (sic, presumably Joan) RIDIFORD. Can anyone go back further with the name? It does not seem to appear in either of my main surname dictionaries (Reaney & Wilson and Hanks & Hodges' Oxford Dictionary of Surnames). I wonder also if anyone recognises the name of the girl, victim, Mary Ann Tandy? She too appears in the 1891 census but I can't find her after that. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE
I've been investigating various criminal ancestors (apart from the ANDOWs <G>) with varying degrees of success. I had a ferret through my library and retrieved some potentially useful volumes which I secured from Bernard Welchman. The volumes in question are: Criminal Register Indexes 1805-1816 Vol 1 Somerset and Dorset edited by Stuart Tamblin and published by Harry Galloway Publishing of Taunton. This gives the name of the accused, the year charged, the crime, sentence, which assizes or session, age if given and the PRO (TNA) reference. Wilton Gaol Description Register 1806-1818 and Wilton Gaol Description Register 1818-1825 by Adrian J Webb & Peter Parrish and published by Hary Galloway Publishing. The first gives details of the holdings in Somerset Record Office. Both give the name of the prisoner, the date committed, age where given, where born and the last residence. The actual descriptoions register also gives height, complexion, eye and hair colour, whether married or single, whether maimed or otherwise marked, occupation, charge/offence, sentence, when and how discharged and the session or assize. Sadly, Harry Galloway doesn't appear to have a website but the books available at various family history fairs and Google will find other sources. These volumes are good starting points for finding where a criminal ancestor was or was not. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk
Robyn Horan wrote: > The newspaper archive is TOTALLY addictive - I love seeing the > newspaper image as well. I think any newspaper archive is addictive. It's so easy to get sidetracked by an interesting headline :)) > The gold rush started here in New South Wales in 1851 so the timing is > good. This is a good time line > > http://www.goldrush.com.au/ Many thanks for that :)) I've since found Uriah's brother, Job, was also transported albeit only for 7 years. He gets a mention on the Ancestry Australian Convicts Database (which also includes many who were never convicted, let alone transported) then vanishes completely - along with his family! A lady on another list very kindly offered to have a look for him but can't find any trace of him at all. She hasn't given up on him yet. All very strange. Job took one of Her Majesty's cruises before Uriah did. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <davidblackmore3@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:21 PM Subject: [B&D] THomas BARNES, Bitton > Ia mtrying to locate the parents of Charles Barnes who was born c. 1813 > and who married Harriet Duck on 24 February 1839. The only thing I know > about Charles' parents is that they were called Thomas Barnes and > Susannah. She died c. December 1825 and was buried on 1 January 1826. Bristol and Avon FHS marriages CD has Hariet's surname as DARK. If Susannah died in 1825 then it's possible that Thomas married again. There's a marriage on CD index of a Thomas BARNES in Kingswood to Mary GOVER on 5 Apr 1833, (both of this parish) but doesn't say whether he was bachelor or widower. May be you can get further clues from 1841/1851 census etc. If you look at that Thomas's age you can work out whether he was old enough to be Charles's father. Caroline