Might he just have played the organ in the church and still have been a coppersmith? I have a builder who was the church organist, a tinsmith who wrote hymns. Another which I still can't comprehend - an Ag Lab who became a teacher!! My great grandfather was an iron moulder who made grates and became an inspector in the insurance business. His wife encouraged him to better himself. Another of my ancestors was an organ builder in 1881 - obviously working with his father and brother who were organ builders, by 1891 he was a carpenter and joiner - not so different because you had a lot of carpentry in creating a church organ but by 1901 he has followed another of his brothers and was a "Wholesale Clothing Manufacturer". My daughter was in sales and marketing in 5 star hotels and airlines - she's now a camel farmer so what could be more different! From smart uniform and 3" heels to mucking out the animals, etc. She also has llamas, pigs, rabbits, ducks, geese, hens, Pygmy goats and umpteen other critters. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" <familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [B&D] William Henry HARRIS c1825 BRISTOL > Brad Rogers wrote: > >> Stranger things happen; My father always wanted to be a musician. He >> managed it. >> >> "How?" I hear you ask. >> >> He joined the army. Whilst there he joined the band, and was taught to >> play and read music. > > Makes sense and it could have happened back then as well, that's why I > added "on the face of it" :)) > >> Going the other way, from musician to (in this case) Coppersmith is, to >> my mind, not a big jump. Especially if he was struggling to make money >> as a musician. He'd have had to do something to earn money. > > The only real problem I can see is that to be a coppersmith, he would > have had to serve an apprenticeship. I don't think he'd have been > allowed to be a musician during his apprenticeship. If he was already > a musician and struggling financially, he'd have been quite a bit > older than most when he started his apprenticeship. > > The only way I could see that working out was if he'd apprenticed and > possibly qualified as a coppersmith, then became a musician but went > back to being a coppersmith when/if being a musician didn't work out. > That, though, begs the question: how did he keep his skills up > during the musical period. > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM > Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Brad Rogers wrote: > Stranger things happen; My father always wanted to be a musician. He > managed it. > > "How?" I hear you ask. > > He joined the army. Whilst there he joined the band, and was taught to > play and read music. Makes sense and it could have happened back then as well, that's why I added "on the face of it" :)) > Going the other way, from musician to (in this case) Coppersmith is, to > my mind, not a big jump. Especially if he was struggling to make money > as a musician. He'd have had to do something to earn money. The only real problem I can see is that to be a coppersmith, he would have had to serve an apprenticeship. I don't think he'd have been allowed to be a musician during his apprenticeship. If he was already a musician and struggling financially, he'd have been quite a bit older than most when he started his apprenticeship. The only way I could see that working out was if he'd apprenticed and possibly qualified as a coppersmith, then became a musician but went back to being a coppersmith when/if being a musician didn't work out. That, though, begs the question: how did he keep his skills up during the musical period. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

On 6 Feb 2010 at 9:37, Brad Rogers wrote: > On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:47:57 +0000 > Charani <familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk> wrote: > > Hello Charani, > > > line or whoever completed the register may have made a mistake: but > > I agree, on the face of it, it is a bit of a stretch. > > Stranger things happen; My father always wanted to be a musician. He > managed it. > > "How?" I hear you ask. > > He joined the army. Whilst there he joined the band, and was taught > to play and read music. > > Going the other way, from musician to (in this case) Coppersmith is, > to my mind, not a big jump. Especially if he was struggling to make > money as a musician. He'd have had to do something to earn money. > My grandfather appears in a 1906 trade directory for Bradford, Yorks, as a boot and shoe repairer. When he married my grandmother in Dublin in 1913 he was described on the certificate as a professional musician. Nobody would have believed it was the same man unless they knew the story! He was so good on the violin that he was determined to make it his career and life, much against the wishes of his parents who thought that playing music in a theatre was not respectable in those days. He was so insistent that eventually they relented on condition that he learned what they called a "proper job" first, so he served an apprenticeship as a boot and shoe repairer while continuing with the violin in his spare time. Eventually he managed to become a professional and spent the next 50-plus years playing in theatre orchestras in Dublin and the north of England, also in the camp orchestras at Butlin's holiday camps. However, he never forgot his first trade and on the rare occasions when he wasn't working in the theatre he filled in for a week or two at his local boot and shoe shop, so he was always grateful to his parents for making him do it! Robin

Just want to thank Charani, Tony, Adrian and Edna for your help. It seems I may not have the right family here, as it's a bit of a stretch to think a Musician would become a Coppersmith???? What puzzles me is that my ancestor William Henry born c1825 maintains on the 1851 and 1861 censuses that he was born in Bristol. Does the "Bristol Diocese" cover all parishes in Bristol? I notice that on GENUKI there are a fewer number of parishes listed under Bristol, than there are on the B&A FHS CD covering baptisms for the Bristol Diocese. The William Henry HARRIS x'd 1825 at Temple Bristol is apparently the only William Henry with a father Henry on the CD, per Tony's reply. So if the CD covers the whole of Bristol, where do I go from here........ Cheers Chris > Hi Chris > I have checked the BAFHS Bristol Diocese index of baptisms 1813 - 1832. > (can > be purchased from http://www.bafhs.org.uk/) > I have looked and there is no other William born and baptised to a Henry > and on a quick look > through all the baptisms to Harris families I can find no other children > born to a Henry Harris > Tony > Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:24:23 -0000 > From: "Adrian Bruce" <abruce@madasafish.com> > Subject: Re: [B&D] William Henry HARRIS- x'd 1825 Temple BRISTOL > > > According to the Bristol Baptisms 1813-37 from the B&A FHS CD (well worth > getting... See http://www.bafhs.org.uk/shop/shop.htm), the details are > > Page Number Date Birth/Age Forename Father's Forename Mother's Forename > Father's Surname Mother's Surname (if diff) Abode Occupation Minister > 252, 2013, 22.05.1825, 03-SEP-1824, WILLIAM HENRY, HENRY, ELIZABETH, > HARRIS,, ST.PAUL, MUSICIAN, E C BRICE > > Hm. Musician to Coppersmith would seem to be stretching it a bit. No other > William son of Henry that I can see on the CD. > > Adrian B

Hello Mairie/Marie (your name appears two ways in messages to the list) I append the International Genealogical Index (IGI) entry for Daniel's baptism at Somerford Keynes, Gloucester [sic] correctly Wiltshire. It is a controlled extraction process entry of his Church of England baptism which the Mormons call christening here because they practice a form of 'adult' baptism only (BTW, there are also two LDS [Mormon] patron submissions in the IGI which I have not appended as they, presumably, derive from this entry or the original parish register entry from which this index copy is, in turn, meant to derive)(N.B. I have also eliminated some of the excess verbiage and spacing, none of which is helpful, I find)(See www.familysearch.org for more.) DANIEL CLARK Event(s): Birth: Christening: 06 JUL 1784 Somerford Keynes, Gloucester, England Death: Burial: Parents: Father: WILLIAM CLARK Mother: MARY Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date. Source Information: Batch No.: C054901 Years: 1543-1812; 0857051 Film; 6911984 Film At the time, Somerford Keynes was in Wiltshire, though the LDS extraction process uses the county to which it was transferred in 1897 for sorting purposes. This entry, then, contains an historical and archival anachronism, akin to "USSR-Napoleonic Invasion" (Library of Congress subject heading catalog[ue]), though one not so glaringly obvious that anybody would immediately note it. The birth date you quoted may REALLY have been the same as the baptismal date, OR somewhere along the line someone may have decided that the christening/baptism date was his actual birthdate, without any independent substantiation of that claim. In the C of E one can be baptised at any time after birth, though after the break with Rome, the tendency was to baptise anywhere from a few days later to the more customary six weeks or so, unless there were an emergency (danger of infant death, normally). Some families, of course, waited years, and had their children 'done' in a job lot. At any rate, you'll want to bear in mind the possibility that Daniel's baptismal date may not IN FACT be his birth date as well as his date of baptism UNLESS you have some other convincing source information to believe that this was indeed the case. I hope this helps you. All the best, Richard OPC Purton and Rodbourne Cheney, Wilts. (with the occasional SK stray in my own LARGE family tree [by which I mean my maternal grandmother's maiden name, LARGE) Richard Carruthers, M.A. (Oxon.) ---------------------------------------- > From: heartseas@bigpond.com > To: nfrey@auracom.com; bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com > Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 09:58:10 +1100 > Subject: Re: [B&D] Daniel Clark > > Dear Nancy, > I Know there is no Daniel Clark christened with Parents Robert and Mary. > You misunderstood my email. > I would like to know in which church the Daniel Clark born 6th July 1784 > in Somerford Keynes Gloucestershire to parents William and Mary Clark (nee > Ancock) would have been christened. > Marie in Australia > > Everything has it's beauty, but not everyone sees it > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________

Knowing where people live...even today...can be quite interesting. I have just taken on a new housekeeper, she told me her mother had moved to Bristol so, knowing Bristol well, I asked her what part of Bristol her mother was living in. The answer really amused me..."Weston super Mare"!!!! I told her, that's not Bristol, it's about 3/4 of an hour away. You see, people who live down here in Penzance have no concept of distances and places. When I explained to her that the distance from Bristol to WSM was about the same as Penzance to Truro, she was shocked. So you can see how easy it was for people in those days to get confused. When I had a business in Bristol I found that many of my staff didn't know that we bordered on Gloucestershire, Wiltshire and Somerset and they wouldn't have had a clue where Chippenham or Cheltenham were...that was until I taught them! So, is it surprising that our ancestors really weren't sure where they were born when they moved before the age of 6? My sister put me on Genesreunited without my permission - it seems she thought I was born in Yorkshire and she also got the year wrong! This didn't really surprise me as she was born 7 years later in Iraq! Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset

Dear Nancy, I Know there is no Daniel Clark christened with Parents Robert and Mary. You misunderstood my email. I would like to know in which church the Daniel Clark born 6th July 1784 in Somerford Keynes Gloucestershire to parents William and Mary Clark (nee Ancock) would have been christened. Marie in Australia Everything has it's beauty, but not everyone sees it

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:47:57 +0000 Charani <familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk> wrote: Hello Charani, > line or whoever completed the register may have made a mistake: but I > agree, on the face of it, it is a bit of a stretch. Stranger things happen; My father always wanted to be a musician. He managed it. "How?" I hear you ask. He joined the army. Whilst there he joined the band, and was taught to play and read music. Going the other way, from musician to (in this case) Coppersmith is, to my mind, not a big jump. Especially if he was struggling to make money as a musician. He'd have had to do something to earn money. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"

Chris & George Jamieson wrote: > Just want to thank Charani, Tony, Adrian and Edna for your help. It seems I > may not have the right family here, as it's a bit of a stretch to think a > Musician would become a Coppersmith???? It would depend if he was a full time musician or did it as a side line or whoever completed the register may have made a mistake: but I agree, on the face of it, it is a bit of a stretch. > What puzzles me is that my ancestor William Henry born c1825 maintains on > the 1851 and 1861 censuses that he was born in Bristol. He could have been born somewhere just outside Bristol and that was the nearest big place. Or he may have moved there as a small child and not known it wasn't where he was born. Or he may have been born in Bristol but christened elsewhere for some reason. > Does the "Bristol Diocese" cover all parishes in Bristol? I notice that on > GENUKI there are a fewer number of parishes listed under Bristol, than there > are on the B&A FHS CD covering baptisms for the Bristol Diocese. A diocese is usually very much larger than the actual place whose name it bears. Bristol Diocese would cover all the parishes in Bristol. > The > William Henry HARRIS x'd 1825 at Temple Bristol is apparently the only > William Henry with a father Henry on the CD, per Tony's reply. So if the CD > covers the whole of Bristol, where do I go from here........ The CD does cover the whole of Bristol. Have you tried www.freereg.org.uk in case he was baptised elsewhere? It's unfortunate that HARRIS is quite a common name which is going to make it that much harder. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Hi Marie, I checked the Bristol Diocese CD that I have and there is no Daniel CLARK or CLARKE baptised 1754 to 1812 with the parents Robert & Mary. Good luck with your search. Regards, Nancy Frey Newcastle, Ontario, CANADA OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset Moderator of Yahoo! Catsash Hundred Group Moderator of Yahoo! Glaston Twelve Hides Hundred Group Moderator of Yahoo! NorthWiltshire Group Moderator of Yahoo! SouthWiltshire Group Moderator of Yahoo! WestWiltshire Group Moderator of Yahoo! FULFORD_North Devon Group Moderator of Yahoo! DAVIDGE Connections Group ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mairie Young" <heartseas@bigpond.com> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:10 PM Subject: [B&D] Daniel Clark > > Dear Listers, > I hope someone on the list can help me please > My g-g-grandfather was Daniel Clark. According to his death certificate in > 1869 he was born in Bristol circa 1786 and his parents were Robert and > Mary > Ann Clark. His grandson was the informant on Daniel's > death certificate, so I don't know how accurate the DC is. > I have not been successful in finding a Daniel Clark born at that time > with > parents named Robert and May Ann. > > However, I found a Daniel CLARK born on 6th July 1784 in Somerford Keynes > Gloucestershire with parents named William and Mary Clark ( nee Ancock) > who > had married on 3rd March 1782 in Corse Gloucestershire. I believe > Somerford > Keynes is not very far from Bristol ( only about 30 miles or 50 Ks). > How can I find out which church Daniel would have been christened in in > 1784 > in Somerford Keynes and which church William and Mary would have married > in > in Corse ??? > > Marie in Australia > > Everything has it's beauty, but not everyone sees it > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For those of you who had ancestors in the above Work Houses here is an interesting article from 1867 about their conditions http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2310696/ David

According to the Bristol Baptisms 1813-37 from the B&A FHS CD (well worth getting... See http://www.bafhs.org.uk/shop/shop.htm), the details are Page Number Date Birth/Age Forename Father's Forename Mother's Forename Father's Surname Mother's Surname (if diff) Abode Occupation Minister 252, 2013, 22.05.1825, 03-SEP-1824, WILLIAM HENRY, HENRY, ELIZABETH, HARRIS,, ST.PAUL, MUSICIAN, E C BRICE Hm. Musician to Coppersmith would seem to be stretching it a bit. No other William son of Henry that I can see on the CD. Adrian B -----Original Message----- From: bristol_and_district-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bristol_and_district-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chris & George Jamieson Sent: 05 February 2010 01:11 To: BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT@rootsweb.com Subject: [B&D] William Henry HARRIS- x'd 1825 Temple BRISTOL Hello I am new to this list but not to family history research. I have a Christening taken from the IGI as follows: William Henry HARRIS x'd 22 May 1825 Temple, BRISTOL Mother: Elizabeth Father: Henry My William HARRIS (not necessarily the same one as above) indicates on later London census records that he was born in Bristol, c1822. His marriage cert gives father's name as Henry HARRIS, Coppersmith. I am wondering if someone on this list has access to Temple PRs or any other material which may reveal Henry HARRIS's occupation, thus giving me an indication as to whether I may be on the right track with this x'ing. Many thanks Chris, Sydney Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Chris I have checked the BAFHS Bristol Diocese index of baptisms 1813 - 1832. (can be purchased from http://www.bafhs.org.uk/) William Henry who was baptised at the Temple Church on 22 May 1825 son of Henry and Elizabeth fathers occupation was Cooper date of birth given as 3 Sep 1824. Henry married Elizabeth 2 May 1823 also at Temple Church I have looked and there is no other William born and baptised to a Henry and on a quick look through all the baptisms to Harris families I can find no other children born to a Henry Harris Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris & George Jamieson" <chrisstanley024@ozemail.com.au> To: <BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:11 AM Subject: [B&D] William Henry HARRIS- x'd 1825 Temple BRISTOL > Hello > > I am new to this list but not to family history research. > > I have a Christening taken from the IGI as follows: > > William Henry HARRIS x'd 22 May 1825 Temple, BRISTOL > Mother: Elizabeth > Father: Henry > > My William HARRIS (not necessarily the same one as above) indicates on > later > London census records that he was born in Bristol, c1822. > > His marriage cert gives father's name as Henry HARRIS, Coppersmith. > > I am wondering if someone on this list has access to Temple PRs or any > other > material which may reveal Henry HARRIS's occupation, thus giving me an > indication as to whether I may be on the right track with this x'ing. > > Many thanks > Chris, Sydney Australia > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Chris & George Jamieson wrote: > Does anyone have access to Temple, Bristol records containing the above > marriage? According to the IGI it took place on 2 May 1823 - Henry HARRIS > married Elizabeth SANDOVER. I would like to know Henry's occupation if > possible. The IGI is correct according to the BAFHS CD. No occupation for Henry was given. It wasn't a requirement at that time and wasn't routinely given unless the incumbent or whoever made up the registers chose to add it for some reason. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Does anyone have access to Temple, Bristol records containing the above marriage? According to the IGI it took place on 2 May 1823 - Henry HARRIS married Elizabeth SANDOVER. I would like to know Henry's occupation if possible. Many thanks Chris, Sydney Australia

Hello I am new to this list but not to family history research. I have a Christening taken from the IGI as follows: William Henry HARRIS x'd 22 May 1825 Temple, BRISTOL Mother: Elizabeth Father: Henry My William HARRIS (not necessarily the same one as above) indicates on later London census records that he was born in Bristol, c1822. His marriage cert gives father's name as Henry HARRIS, Coppersmith. I am wondering if someone on this list has access to Temple PRs or any other material which may reveal Henry HARRIS's occupation, thus giving me an indication as to whether I may be on the right track with this x'ing. Many thanks Chris, Sydney Australia

Dear Listers, I hope someone on the list can help me please My g-g-grandfather was Daniel Clark. According to his death certificate in 1869 he was born in Bristol circa 1786 and his parents were Robert and Mary Ann Clark. His grandson was the informant on Daniel's death certificate, so I don't know how accurate the DC is. I have not been successful in finding a Daniel Clark born at that time with parents named Robert and May Ann. However, I found a Daniel CLARK born on 6th July 1784 in Somerford Keynes Gloucestershire with parents named William and Mary Clark ( nee Ancock) who had married on 3rd March 1782 in Corse Gloucestershire. I believe Somerford Keynes is not very far from Bristol ( only about 30 miles or 50 Ks). How can I find out which church Daniel would have been christened in in 1784 in Somerford Keynes and which church William and Mary would have married in in Corse ??? Marie in Australia Everything has it's beauty, but not everyone sees it

Hi, I once ordered the LDS film for Temple and I never saw an occupation listed for those early dates. The film can be ordered from the LDS for a small fee but it is not an easy register to read. Good Luck, Edna - Ottawa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris & George Jamieson" <chrisstanley024@ozemail.com.au> To: <BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:11 PM Subject: [B&D] William Henry HARRIS- x'd 1825 Temple BRISTOL Hello I am new to this list but not to family history research. I have a Christening taken from the IGI as follows: William Henry HARRIS x'd 22 May 1825 Temple, BRISTOL Mother: Elizabeth Father: Henry My William HARRIS (not necessarily the same one as above) indicates on later London census records that he was born in Bristol, c1822. His marriage cert gives father's name as Henry HARRIS, Coppersmith. I am wondering if someone on this list has access to Temple PRs or any other material which may reveal Henry HARRIS's occupation, thus giving me an indication as to whether I may be on the right track with this x'ing. Many thanks Chris, Sydney Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am two people:-) The NHS number is not one we tend to remember or even look at. Many years ago I received a letter from them asking if I was "A" or "B"! I was somewhat surprised, I was in fact both "A" and "B", I could only come to the conclusion that having moved abroad in 1949, returning a few years later, the school must have re-registered me and they must have given me a new number. Being a child I wouldn't have known what was happening or why. It wasn't until the late 1960s that they picked up on this. I wonder if other people might have been given two "identities" inadvertently. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Lynn" <karenalynn@gmail.com> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [B&D] When is some one dead? >I believe that the national identity card numbers that were allocated based > on this survey were the same numbers used as NHS numbers when the NHS was > founded (presumably plus additions for children subsequently born). > > Karen > > On 4 February 2010 10:53, Phil Warn <philwarnorp@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> Does any one know why this is in the hands of the NHS and not the >> Registrar General or whoever the keeper of Censuses is these days? >> >> As I understand it, the 1939 "survey" by definition pre-dated the >> start of the NHS. >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I believe that the national identity card numbers that were allocated based on this survey were the same numbers used as NHS numbers when the NHS was founded (presumably plus additions for children subsequently born). Karen On 4 February 2010 10:53, Phil Warn <philwarnorp@googlemail.com> wrote: > Does any one know why this is in the hands of the NHS and not the > Registrar General or whoever the keeper of Censuses is these days? > > As I understand it, the 1939 "survey" by definition pre-dated the > start of the NHS. >