Could some one tell me what the abbrev's refer to PAU, HYX, MAG, MIL, ALP, STS on a list of BMD dates please. TIA Bryan, PERTH No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.783 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2742 - Release Date: 03/13/10 03:33:00

Bryan Haycock wrote: > Could some one tell me what the abbrev's refer to PAU, HYX, MAG, MIL, ALP, STS > on a list of BMD dates please. Can you give an example of each instance to put it in context, please? Were they in an original register or were they in a transcript? -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Charani wrote: > Now using a calculator ('cos my maths isn't that good), that increase > works out at 32.1428571 pence a year. That's less than! the annual > increase in the Carer's Allowance I get for my son and less than just > about every other State benefit and allowance. It's also less than > wages have increased for the non self employed. That calculation assumes that we each buy only 1 certificate per year... Is that realistic? Regards, Jan ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:33:20 +0000 > From: familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk > To: bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [B&D] Changes to certificate ordering > > Whenever the cost of certs goes up it's invariably by a significant > amount because the increases are not done annually. > > Yes, an increase of 2.25GBP is a lot in one go but the certs haven't > gone up for 7 years. > > Now using a calculator ('cos my maths isn't that good), that increase > works out at 32.1428571 pence a year. That's less than the annual > increase in the Carer's Allowance I get for my son and less than just > about every other State benefit and allowance. It's also less than > wages have increased for the non self employed. > > If pensions and other State benefits and allowances had been kept at > the same level for 7 years and then the accumulated annual increases > were given us in one hit, we'd all be dancing on the ceiling and > planning round the world trips! > > We won't know whether the withdrawal of the reference checking will > mean the GRO will keep the fee or return it until after 6 April. Yes, > it will make it more difficult for people researching common names. > It may well be the addtional information that's not required at the > moment will need to be given, if known. Clarification on this would > have to come from the GRO themselves because they are the ones who'd > know the answer. > > Yes, they do make mistakes from time to time. They are no more > perfect than anyone else and we all make mistakes from time to time > even if we don't like admitting it. > > These charges will go ahead and petitions to the Government aren't > going to stop them. As far as I'm aware, there are only two petitions > that have ever had an effect. One of those was for a conversion to > allow a severely disabled soldier to live as independent a life as > possible. I don't think the wishes of hobbyists will have the same > impact somehow. > > I know that all sounds harsh and uncaring but it's not. My income is > as severely limited as all those who are on a pension or DLA so it's > going to have just as great an impact on me as well. > > This discussion is one of those that's going to go round and round > until it disappears up our exhausts, so I'm asking everyone to, > please, send it to our ancestors. > > For those waiting to see if they have anyone mentioned int the Hearth > Tax book I have - I'm getting there! :)) I still have the Lay Subsidy > book to go through as well. > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM > Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/

Whenever the cost of certs goes up it's invariably by a significant amount because the increases are not done annually. Yes, an increase of 2.25GBP is a lot in one go but the certs haven't gone up for 7 years. Now using a calculator ('cos my maths isn't that good), that increase works out at 32.1428571 pence a year. That's less than the annual increase in the Carer's Allowance I get for my son and less than just about every other State benefit and allowance. It's also less than wages have increased for the non self employed. If pensions and other State benefits and allowances had been kept at the same level for 7 years and then the accumulated annual increases were given us in one hit, we'd all be dancing on the ceiling and planning round the world trips! We won't know whether the withdrawal of the reference checking will mean the GRO will keep the fee or return it until after 6 April. Yes, it will make it more difficult for people researching common names. It may well be the addtional information that's not required at the moment will need to be given, if known. Clarification on this would have to come from the GRO themselves because they are the ones who'd know the answer. Yes, they do make mistakes from time to time. They are no more perfect than anyone else and we all make mistakes from time to time even if we don't like admitting it. These charges will go ahead and petitions to the Government aren't going to stop them. As far as I'm aware, there are only two petitions that have ever had an effect. One of those was for a conversion to allow a severely disabled soldier to live as independent a life as possible. I don't think the wishes of hobbyists will have the same impact somehow. I know that all sounds harsh and uncaring but it's not. My income is as severely limited as all those who are on a pension or DLA so it's going to have just as great an impact on me as well. This discussion is one of those that's going to go round and round until it disappears up our exhausts, so I'm asking everyone to, please, send it to our ancestors. For those waiting to see if they have anyone mentioned int the Hearth Tax book I have - I'm getting there! :)) I still have the Lay Subsidy book to go through as well. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

On 13 Mar 2010 at 21:29, Polly Rubery wrote: > Hi Liz > > There is a petition see: > > http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/grocertificates/ > > Polly > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liz" <e.newbery@btinternet.com> > To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:21 PM > Subject: Re: [B&D] Changes to certificate ordering > > > Hi Polly > > I'm surprised there has been no petition to Downing Street on this new > charge. It is well above the pay rises and as the vast majority of > people who send for certificates are pensioners and our pensions are > only going up by something just over 2% I think this increase is > appalling. > I am sorry to seem like a wet blanket and a party pooper but if anyone seriously thinks a petition to Downing Street is going to make an 'aporth of difference, then the moon is made of green cheese and I'm George Formby! Many years as a professional cynic tells me that petitions to the government are about as much use as the proverbial catflap in an elephant house. Surely you can see that they are simply a highly cynical device to make us, the great British public, believe that our views matter, whereas the truth is that nobody in government, whether MPs or civil servants, could give a monkeys! The whole object of these online petitions is to deceive us into thinking the government is being democratic and listening to the electorate, whereas once the next election is over they will treat us with the same contempt that they always do. Has anyone ever heard of one of these petitions changing anything? I fear we will have to swallow the GRO increases and pay up if we want to continue with our researches. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

<<snipped>> I cannot see how they could possibly justify such an increase <<snipped>> If you've ever tried to cost work, I think you'd end up with the impression that they could easily charge more. Somewhere there's a costing on the web that works out the time taken to process the order, multiplies it by the employee's pay rate per minute and adds in the postage. That's way off the mark - for a start you need to add in all the stuff that the employer pays (such as NI, etc). Then there's the building costs, microfilming costs (where approp), etc. Producing certificates for FH simply cannot be done in marginal costs (i.e. the building, people and facilities would be there anyway). Think about it - what possible reason, apart from FH, is there to store, film and print vital certificates over (say) 110y old? FH really must contribute 90-odd percent of the certificate ordering traffic at the GRO (that's from the Department of Guesswork, by the way). And as Brad said, spread the increase over the 7 years, when all those costs have been going up, and it's not dramatically out of the range of inflation. What I find quite astonishing is that the cost in a local registrar's office is going to be a few coppers less than the GRO price - given that so many of them don't have stuff on microfilm and give superb service, I'm just crossing my fingers and thanking them and my lucky stars. Adrian B

Thank you Polly. I have now signed...whether these petitions have any effort I don't know but the contents of the petition are perfect. They waste their money putting the Certificates in the post. I've had two faulty ones in the last month - Beaminster typed instead of Bedminster!! One 20 years out from the actual date. They have accepted their errors, sent me stamped addressed envelopes to send them back and they will be replaced. They have to have the original ones back for auditing purposes. All adds extra cost due to their inefficiency! Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polly Rubery" <polly@rowberry.org> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [B&D] Changes to certificate ordering Hi Liz There is a petition see: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/grocertificates/ Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz" <e.newbery@btinternet.com> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [B&D] Changes to certificate ordering Hi Polly I'm surprised there has been no petition to Downing Street on this new charge. It is well above the pay rises and as the vast majority of people who send for certificates are pensioners and our pensions are only going up by something just over 2% I think this increase is appalling. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polly Rubery" <polly@rowberry.org> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:05 PM Subject: [B&D] Changes to certificate ordering I previously wrote: > Get your certificate orders in quickly the price is going up on April > 6th, £7 to £9.25! > See: > http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/rde/xchg/ips_live/hs.xsl/1569.htm But in checking the GRO certificate ordering website today (http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/) I found this additional announcement: Changes to Fees and Services from 6 April 2010 Customers are asked to please note that there will be a change to the GRO fee structure which will take effect from 6 April 2010. Further details can be found on the IPS website at www.ips.gov.uk. Please note in addition that GRO have reviewed the range of services which we currently offer. We have been advised that there is no clear remit in statute for charging for a service to check additional index references, or to retain partial fees. In order to ensure full legal compliance, and in view of the fact that we cannot afford to offer this service free of charge, we are regretfully withdrawing our reference checking service from 6 April. This will include the withdrawal of the "checking points". So pay more and get a reduced service.... Polly ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Liz There is a petition see: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/grocertificates/ Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz" <e.newbery@btinternet.com> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [B&D] Changes to certificate ordering Hi Polly I'm surprised there has been no petition to Downing Street on this new charge. It is well above the pay rises and as the vast majority of people who send for certificates are pensioners and our pensions are only going up by something just over 2% I think this increase is appalling. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polly Rubery" <polly@rowberry.org> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:05 PM Subject: [B&D] Changes to certificate ordering I previously wrote: > Get your certificate orders in quickly the price is going up on April > 6th, £7 to £9.25! > See: > http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/rde/xchg/ips_live/hs.xsl/1569.htm But in checking the GRO certificate ordering website today (http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/) I found this additional announcement: Changes to Fees and Services from 6 April 2010 Customers are asked to please note that there will be a change to the GRO fee structure which will take effect from 6 April 2010. Further details can be found on the IPS website at www.ips.gov.uk. Please note in addition that GRO have reviewed the range of services which we currently offer. We have been advised that there is no clear remit in statute for charging for a service to check additional index references, or to retain partial fees. In order to ensure full legal compliance, and in view of the fact that we cannot afford to offer this service free of charge, we are regretfully withdrawing our reference checking service from 6 April. This will include the withdrawal of the "checking points". So pay more and get a reduced service.... Polly ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Brad wrote: <We have been advised that there is no clear remit in statute for charging for a service to check additional index references, or to retain partial fees.> The important bit being "or to retain partial fees." That means they give you all your money back if they can't supply a certificate.<< That's your reading of it, I take it to mean that they will retain all of it...:-(! They say they cannot search without covering the cost, so it's fairly obvious that they are not going to return the fee if the certificate isn't found, as otherwise how do they cover the cost of the search - far more than supplying a certificate with a given GRO reference?! I am not usually a "half-empty glass" pessimist, but in this case even I am not optimistic! Polly -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hmmm...are you a Civil Servant?? I cannot see how they could possibly justify such an increase and I don't think it would be allowed. I still think it's too great an increase. I will not be ordering any after 6th April - my postie will be glad when I stop ordering, he's never had so much to deliver to me as in the last month! Again...as the 3xg granddaughter of a Town Crier, I cry out to you all again...Order your Certificates now and put your email address on FreeBMD! Yes, I know I keep on about it but if everyone put their info on there we would never have to order another certificate. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Rogers" <brad@fineby.me.uk> > But that's after one year. The rise from £7.00 to £9.25 is after seven > years. Admittedly, it's still more than 2%/annum, but there's more > involved than that. The GRO could easily justify an increase to £12.00, > I reckon. > > -- > Regards _ > / ) "The blindingly obvious is > / _)rad never immediately apparent"

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:32:44 -0000 "Polly Rubery" <polly@rowberry.org> wrote: Hello Polly, > I haven't noticed anything about any refund - where did you spot that? >From the website, as quoted by yourself; <We have been advised that there is no clear remit in statute for charging for a service to check additional index references, or to retain partial fees.> The important bit being "or to retain partial fees." That means they give you all your money back if they can't supply a certificate. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:28:48 -0000 "Liz" <e.newbery@btinternet.com> wrote: Hello Liz, > So what if the marriage you are looking for isn't to be found? If we > can't find it on the GRO records how are they going to find it? I was I meant if you supply no reference, and they can't find what you're looking for, or even with reference checking, you got a partial refund. That's not legal. So, either they supply a cert, or you get a full refund. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:21:53 -0000 "Liz" <e.newbery@btinternet.com> wrote: Hello Liz, > who send for certificates are pensioners and our pensions are only > going up by something just over 2% I think this increase is appalling. But that's after one year. The rise from £7.00 to £9.25 is after seven years. Admittedly, it's still more than 2%/annum, but there's more involved than that. The GRO could easily justify an increase to £12.00, I reckon. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"

Hi Brad I haven't noticed anything about any refund - where did you spot that? Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Rogers" <brad@fineby.me.uk> To: "Bristol & District ML" <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [B&D] Changes to certificate ordering On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:05:12 -0000 "Polly Rubery" <polly@rowberry.org> wrote: Hello Polly, > So pay more and get a reduced service.... But on the plus side, if what you ask for isn't found, you get a full refund, not a partial one. Although, of course, it's difficult to see how it wouldn't be found. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"

So what if the marriage you are looking for isn't to be found? If we can't find it on the GRO records how are they going to find it? I was looking for one the other day - couldn't find it...perhaps another case of no marriage, ie they never quite got round to marrying! Will the local Registrar not charge if a marriage can't be found? Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Rogers" <brad@fineby.me.uk> > But on the plus side, if what you ask for isn't found, you get a full > refund, not a partial one. Although, of course, it's difficult to see > how it wouldn't be found.

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:05:12 -0000 "Polly Rubery" <polly@rowberry.org> wrote: Hello Polly, > So pay more and get a reduced service.... But on the plus side, if what you ask for isn't found, you get a full refund, not a partial one. Although, of course, it's difficult to see how it wouldn't be found. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent"

Hi Polly I'm surprised there has been no petition to Downing Street on this new charge. It is well above the pay rises and as the vast majority of people who send for certificates are pensioners and our pensions are only going up by something just over 2% I think this increase is appalling. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polly Rubery" <polly@rowberry.org> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:05 PM Subject: [B&D] Changes to certificate ordering I previously wrote: > Get your certificate orders in quickly the price is going up on April > 6th, £7 to £9.25! > See: > http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/rde/xchg/ips_live/hs.xsl/1569.htm But in checking the GRO certificate ordering website today (http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/) I found this additional announcement: Changes to Fees and Services from 6 April 2010 Customers are asked to please note that there will be a change to the GRO fee structure which will take effect from 6 April 2010. Further details can be found on the IPS website at www.ips.gov.uk. Please note in addition that GRO have reviewed the range of services which we currently offer. We have been advised that there is no clear remit in statute for charging for a service to check additional index references, or to retain partial fees. In order to ensure full legal compliance, and in view of the fact that we cannot afford to offer this service free of charge, we are regretfully withdrawing our reference checking service from 6 April. This will include the withdrawal of the "checking points". So pay more and get a reduced service.... Polly ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I previously wrote: > Get your certificate orders in quickly the price is going up on April > 6th, £7 to £9.25! > See: > http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/rde/xchg/ips_live/hs.xsl/1569.htm But in checking the GRO certificate ordering website today (http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/) I found this additional announcement: Changes to Fees and Services from 6 April 2010 Customers are asked to please note that there will be a change to the GRO fee structure which will take effect from 6 April 2010. Further details can be found on the IPS website at www.ips.gov.uk. Please note in addition that GRO have reviewed the range of services which we currently offer. We have been advised that there is no clear remit in statute for charging for a service to check additional index references, or to retain partial fees. In order to ensure full legal compliance, and in view of the fact that we cannot afford to offer this service free of charge, we are regretfully withdrawing our reference checking service from 6 April. This will include the withdrawal of the "checking points". So pay more and get a reduced service.... Polly

Thanks for your advice Liz. I had looked for marriages for the older children but hadn't thought to look in the 1861 census for the children, nor either of the wives, so I'll do that next. Many thanks Chris, Sydney Australia > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:09:16 -0000 > From: "Liz" <e.newbery@btinternet.com> > > You don't say if you've looked for the 5 children elsewhere in the 1861 > census? Have you looked for either of his "wives" to check if they are > around > and have just left him. >

If you still have any energy, and time, would appreciate a check on the following please CRUDGE WESTERN HELLINGS I would expect the WESTERN's to be Halberton, but could be anywhere. Many thanks Vernon in Grimsby, Lincs