Mike said: >I am involved in a similar project to transcribe Poor Law records of Kirby >Muxloe in Leicestershire and faced the same daunting prospect as you when >faced with hundreds of pages. I'm gradually evolving a technique to >simplify the task and make it a practical proposition. Thanks, Mike - some useful ideas there. >Use voice recognition software and dictate the names, instead of >typing them. How do you cope (if you do) with the multiple spellings of a single name typical of old records? I have taken the view that these should be retained as they indicate the variability of use and possibly indicate the interconnection of people who ended up with different surnames which might once have been the same. I also have the unsupported conviction that variant spellings may indicate local pronunciation in some cases. Spelling changes often indicate a change of author too. I have 6 spellings of "Lydia" in my present file. >Use MS Word automatic index generation using a concordance file to create >the index from a transcription that follows the original pages. I'll have to look into that - it's not a feature I am aware of. My current practice is to begin a list of names, kept alphabetical and added to as needed. Then as I work down a page, I append that page number (by one copy and multiple pastes) to each name appearing there. Every 20 pages or so I start a new list of names and the separate lists are consolidated by a homebrew program. >You may also wish to consider converting images of the original records >into PDF format and making them available, either on-line or on CD. There >are free PDF converters available. Yes, it would be good. The current jpg format is OK for a CD too. But I'd have to charge either way (I don't have that much webspace available!), and I'd need permission on that basis from the owners. I can't see it happening soon. Best wishes, Ian

Hi Ian, I am involved in a similar project to transcribe Poor Law records of Kirby Muxloe in Leicestershire and faced the same daunting prospect as you when faced with hundreds of pages. I'm gradually evolving a technique to simplify the task and make it a practical proposition. I offer the following suggestions that you and others doing similar work may like to consider: 1) Only transcribe the names, since that's what most people are interested in (from your posting, you already plan to do this). 2) Use voice recognition software and dictate the names, instead of typing them. I use Dragon Naturally Speaking software. 3) Restrict the vocabulary of the voice recognition software to just the names you are transcribing and gradually build up this list. You can train it to recognise the list. 4) Use MS Word automatic index generation using a concordance file to create the index from a transcription that follows the original pages. 5) You may also wish to consider converting images of the original records into PDF format and making them available, either on-line or on CD. There are free PDF converters available. Hope this helps, Mike Gould Leicestershire -----Original Message----- From: bristol_and_district-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bristol_and_district-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ian Sage Sent: 05 April 2010 17:27 To: bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B&D] Overseers' Accounts Availability (was Female officers) Pat said: >I think that Overseers' Accounts and Church Wardens' Accounts are >fantastic <snip> and listed some available transcripts. Thanks for the overview, Pat. Yes, poor records are a goldmine of information where they survive, and throw up plenty of problems too. A particularly frequent (if sad) problem solver is that poor law records often provide clues to the living relatives of a burial entry in the PR, and help identify the deceased (provided they are poor enough) For Nailsea, I hope soon to complete a name index of the first set of records, which I will post on line. I can then offer look-ups, which would be quite impossible without the index to work from. I considered a full transcription, but the volume (one of three) which I am working from is well over 300 pages and the irregular formatting and layout of pages and odd spellings would make it a huge job. Ian ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>> At a Vestry held this 1 day of August 1784 Whereas the small pox now >> broke out in this parish, We do hearby [sic] Agree for the Church >> Wardens & Overseers to Gett a Man to Inoculate the inhabitence [sic] >Interesting, that they thought of doing that back then. > > I thought that was a bit early for Jenner, and I found this by Googling. > http://www.thedorsetpage.com/history/smallpox/smallpox.htm > Caroline In fact, although vaccination and inoculation are today pretty much synonymous, the 2 words originally referred to quite different methods - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innoculation which does a slightly clearer job of explaining the differences. In fact, inoculation against smallpox (in the original sense) was actually later banned in favour of vaccination, as it says in that Wikipedia article. Adrian B

C Rihan wrote: > Interesting, that they thought of doing that back then. I was surprised too. > I thought that was a bit early for Jenner, and I found this by Googling. > http://www.thedorsetpage.com/history/smallpox/smallpox.htm Thanks for that little gem :)) It wouldn't surprise me if there had been earlier inoculations than Benjamin JESTY's since it was a well known fact by 1774. It's interesting that the overseers in Walton instigated what must have been a similar process and on a large scale: 70 people. I'd love to know who they were but it obviously worked because there was only one burial after 1 Aug and that was a 5 wk old baby on September 5. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" <familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk> To: <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [B&D] Overseers' Accounts and Female parish officers? > This entry is also from Walton: > > At a Vestry held this 1 day of August 1784 Whereas the small pox now > broke out in this parish, We do hearby [sic] Agree for the Church > Wardens & Overseers to Gett a Man to Inoculate the inhabitence [sic] > of this parish in number about 70 And we do further agree to give the > Sum of three Guineas and half and no More as Witness our Hands ?3 13s 6d Interesting, that they thought of doing that back then. I thought that was a bit early for Jenner, and I found this by Googling. http://www.thedorsetpage.com/history/smallpox/smallpox.htm Caroline

I am looking for the Burials of Thomas Murphy aged 67 when he died in 1927. and Elizabeth Murphy who died about 1940. Dale --- On Sat, 27/3/10, Leonard Skinner <leonard.skinner@btinternet.com> wrote: > From: Leonard Skinner <leonard.skinner@btinternet.com> > Subject: [B&D] Beese or Bees Family > To: bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com > Date: Saturday, 27 March, 2010, 11:55 > Hi Dale > > > > I would be happy to share my Beese/Bees family information > with you. > > > > Beese Descendent Chart sent off list. > > > > Leonard > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Does anyone have the burial records for Mangotsfield/Downend grave yards, especially for Luke and Elizabeth Barnes around the 1880s. Dale --- On Sat, 27/3/10, Leonard Skinner <leonard.skinner@btinternet.com> wrote: > From: Leonard Skinner <leonard.skinner@btinternet.com> > Subject: [B&D] Beese or Bees Family > To: bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com > Date: Saturday, 27 March, 2010, 11:55 > Hi Dale > > > > I would be happy to share my Beese/Bees family information > with you. > > > > Beese Descendent Chart sent off list. > > > > Leonard > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Pat said: >I think that Overseers' Accounts and Church Wardens' Accounts are >fantastic <snip> and listed some available transcripts. Thanks for the overview, Pat. Yes, poor records are a goldmine of information where they survive, and throw up plenty of problems too. A particularly frequent (if sad) problem solver is that poor law records often provide clues to the living relatives of a burial entry in the PR, and help identify the deceased (provided they are poor enough) For Nailsea, I hope soon to complete a name index of the first set of records, which I will post on line. I can then offer look-ups, which would be quite impossible without the index to work from. I considered a full transcription, but the volume (one of three) which I am working from is well over 300 pages and the irregular formatting and layout of pages and odd spellings would make it a huge job. Ian

Hello Listers I used to regularly consult the overseers of the poor records for Oldland parish when down at Bristol Record Office. You can gain much knowledge from the accounts, including vestry minutes, and I've found some of my own ancestors listed as receiving parish relief, taking on apprentices, making people work on the roads, helping one family whose son was disabled and unable to work, etc, etc. Sometimes they appeared very harsh on the people applying for poor relief and other times very sympathetic. You can see how much they paid out to each individual and for how long. There are even a few details of settlement papers where parishioners of other parishes were sent back to their own parish if they did not have legal settlement in Oldland. There were also settlement papers received from other parishes returning Oldland parishioners to Oldland. I am pretty sure that these days you can find indexes to these records on A2A or The National Archives. I can't say that I noticed any female names in the elections for Overseers of The Poor in the Oldland records or among the signatories. Bernice

Pat Hase wrote: > I think that Overseers' Accounts and Church Wardens' Accounts are > fantastic - not only do you usually get the names of rate payers but such an > insight into what the money was spent on and how life was led at that time. This entry is also from Walton: At a Vestry held this 1 day of August 1784 Whereas the small pox now broke out in this parish, We do hearby [sic] Agree for the Church Wardens & Overseers to Gett a Man to Inoculate the inhabitence [sic] of this parish in number about 70 And we do further agree to give the Sum of three Guineas and half and no More as Witness our Hands ?3 13s 6d > I can't lay my hands on my notes for the following but I seem to remember > that in Weston-super-Mare one year the Overseers' accounts were beautifully > written and presented but the Overseer made his mark when signing them! > Further investigation showed that the accounts were actually kept my his > wife. Comments about this were made elsewhere in the records but the > situation was allowed to continue. 8>< > These are just a few which come to mind - what others are there? I have those for Walton from 1819 to 1836 but they are not online as yet. I also have a partial transcription of the books from 1757-1784 but, as you say, they are difficult to read. The first time one of the ladies of the village is mentioned as an overseers is 1758 when Sarah PALMER, widow, was appointed along with Samuel WHITE "for their own estates". The 2nd entry, appropriate given today is Easter Monday, reads (my notes are in angle brackets): Easter Monday Mar the 27th 1758 we whose names are under written Do allow of the foregoing accts and Do nominate and appoint Sarah PALMER widdow and Samuel WHITE to serve the office of overseers for the Year ensuing. The mark of Stephen GREGORY <mark resembles cap V> Richard POLTON, William WATKINS, Richard PINKARD, Joseph HOBBS, John WITHY <all sign> It's unfortunate that whenever a female overseer is mentioned subsquently, it's formally: Mrs HURMAN, Mrs RAWLINGS, Mrs IVISON, Mrs HOOPER and so on. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

I think that Overseers' Accounts and Church Wardens' Accounts are fantastic - not only do you usually get the names of rate payers but such an insight into what the money was spent on and how life was led at that time. I can't lay my hands on my notes for the following but I seem to remember that in Weston-super-Mare one year the Overseers' accounts were beautifully written and presented but the Overseer made his mark when signing them! Further investigation showed that the accounts were actually kept my his wife. Comments about this were made elsewhere in the records but the situation was allowed to continue. The originals need to be examined and they are not easy to transcribe or index but are well worth the effort of studying although you have to take them year by year. There are some exceptions to this. In the Reference Section of Weston-super-Mare Library are printed extracts from the Weston Overseers' Accounts by Brian Austin. These are arranged by surname of recipient so you can see every payment for each person (all done pre-computer) Nailsea & District Local History Society has the text of a publication about the Nailsea Poor Rate in 1828 available online http://www.ndlhs.org.uk/ebooks/Nailsea1828-final.pdf Mary Mason has included Portbury Church Wardens' Accounts on her Portbury Hundred site http://www.portbury-hundred.co.uk/accportbury.htm Outside this area. Paul Mansfield has examined the Enmore Overseers' Accounts. See http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SOM/Enmore/index.html These are just a few which come to mind - what others are there? Pat

Ian Sage wrote: > Thanks for the input, Charani: YW :)) > Sarah Greenfield evidently played a full part in the duties of the post, > though in a couple of places she notes that payments were made "on the > advice of J Coombs" (the churchwarden). Bowing to the advice of one more experienced. Sarah was earlier than the lady in Walton (IIRC). My notes are on my other computer which isn't fired up atm. > Sadly the Nailsea overseers acounts only survive as a (apparently mid-late > Victorian) transcription so I cannot assess the handwriting. But Sarah's > entries have characteristics of their own, including more extensive use of > people's initials instead of names, and the use of numerals in place of > months (8m^th for August, for example). She was apparently highly literate > and well educated. It would seem so, although use of initials and the use of numerals could also hide any problems she had with the spelling of names and months but that could be because she didn't want to make any mistakes given what may have been a relatively unusual position for a woman to hold. > Unfortunately at this time the rates returns are not included in the > overseer's accounts - assessment and collection of rates had apparently been > "outsourced" to the schoolteacher at this time - so I cannot see what > property she held. That's a shame. Walton's overseers don't give the property, only the amounts paid. I can't think offhand what sources there might be other than a will possibly (if extant). It's too early for the usual sources. > Incidentally, I cannot resist the following entry for those who share my > macabre affection for inappropriate wording: > > 12th October 1807 - Paid Mr Help his bill for the Jurymen & Coroner when > they sat on the Body of James Vawer - 13 shillings 8 pence ha'penny. I have a slightly macabre sense of humour and had to have a chuckle over that <G> Who was Mr HELP? I have a HELP(E)S family who ended up in Bristol. They're proving to be a bit of a headache (knocking your head against a brickwall does tend to have that effect after a while ;)) ). -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Roy, Any potential that you're related to the famous Capt. William Keeling, 17th century sailor and discover, who had the Cocos and Keeling Islands in the Indian Ocean named after him. Would be interesting to know? Peter On 4/3/10, Keeling <roy.keeling@tesco.net> wrote: > Bernice, Thank you very much for your response. > > Everyone is so helpful. > > I must be honest, Isaac is the first link I have had to the area because all > the other research for the KEELING family has been in and around Cheshire. > > On the 1861 census Isaac states he was from Notts but on 1851 he states > Poynton, Cheshire, which is really what I am looking for, as this is where > my Isaac is from. The family were born and married there for several > generations. > > Best wishes > > Roy > > -----Original Message----- > From: bristol_and_district-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:bristol_and_district-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Bernpeg@aol.com > Sent: 02 April 2010 23:10 > To: bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [B&D] Isaac Keeling > > Hello again Roy > I expect you already know that a Christopher Keeling was a 49 year old coal > mine proprietor at Cromhall, Glos in 1851. His parish of birth was stated > as Moore Green, Notts. > I notice that the coal miner Jacob and Edith Keeling at Yate in 1851 had a > son also called Christopher Keeling who was baptised in 1828 at The > Tabernacle Calvanistic Methodist chapel at Wotton Under Edge, Glos. It > appears > that your Isaac, Jacob and Christopher Keeling are probably brothers. > Bernice > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi again Ian At St James, Bristol there was a burial of Ann HAY on 23.6.1789 and a Lewis HAY on 6.12.1788. At St Augustine, Bristol a Jane HAY was buried on 10.5.1800. Hope this helps. Bernice

Hi Jan I have checked all the entries for 1838 and Residence in most cases is Westbury. It would appear that for a considerable time it was known as Westbury in the Forest before becoming Westbury on Severn so I can see that for most people it would just be Westbury. Regards Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan R" <tartania99@hotmail.co.uk> To: "Rootsweb Bristol & District" <bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 3:37 AM Subject: Re: [B&D] Ordering a birth certificate when GRO index reference isn't correct > >> Also many thanks to Tony for that extra info re Emma's baptism. >> "Westbury" and "Westbury on Severn" certainly seem to be used >> interchangeably in that area - I think they refer to the same place, >> don't they? - >>

Jan R wrote: > As Liz said, it would certainly be a good idea if there was a space > on the order form for us to add a short comment just to give them a > hint, since we may have spent hours of our own time investigating a > particular entry and could save them wasting theirs. It's always worth making the suggestion, esp as they're withdrawing the ref checking option in 3 days. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Just to add to the earlier thread that we've been talking about, ie Ordering a birth certificate. I have been looking for a death for a lady for some time now using FreeBMD and could not find her. I looked for her on the 1911 census and she wasn't there, this made me realise that she should have died between 1901 - 1911. Yes, there was one, aged 59 but my lady was only about 39 so I went to the spectacles at the end of the line and clicked on them to take me to the original GRO site and there she was aged 39. Yes, it was slightly difficult to read but without a doubt, it was 39. So easily mis-read by the transcriber. A short subscription to Findmypast is well worth the investment. Another of my ladies I couldn't find was a widow in 1889. My thoughts were that she must have married again because I couldn't find her death. I found her with her daughters from her first marriage plus new husband. As a result, I've been able to get her Death Certificate just in time before the increase. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset

Thanks to all for your replies. Polly's argument (that I should put the reference *exactly* as given in the GRO index) has persuaded me, so that's what I'll do - the reference is very clear in the scanned image and if, as I believe, it's wrong, then they'll soon find that out and it will be their responsibility to work out what it really is. Provided they're not completely snowed under with requests, of course! Also many thanks to Tony for that extra info re Emma's baptism. "Westbury" and "Westbury on Severn" certainly seem to be used interchangeably in that area - I think they refer to the same place, don't they? - but the registration district named Westbury is miles away in Wiltshire, which is why I think the GRO index is wrong... As Liz said, it would certainly be a good idea if there was a space on the order form for us to add a short comment just to give them a hint, since we may have spent hours of our own time investigating a particular entry and could save them wasting theirs. Best regards, Jan _________________________________________________________________ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/ Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now

Bernice, Thank you very much for your response. Everyone is so helpful. I must be honest, Isaac is the first link I have had to the area because all the other research for the KEELING family has been in and around Cheshire. On the 1861 census Isaac states he was from Notts but on 1851 he states Poynton, Cheshire, which is really what I am looking for, as this is where my Isaac is from. The family were born and married there for several generations. Best wishes Roy -----Original Message----- From: bristol_and_district-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bristol_and_district-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bernpeg@aol.com Sent: 02 April 2010 23:10 To: bristol_and_district@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B&D] Isaac Keeling Hello again Roy I expect you already know that a Christopher Keeling was a 49 year old coal mine proprietor at Cromhall, Glos in 1851. His parish of birth was stated as Moore Green, Notts. I notice that the coal miner Jacob and Edith Keeling at Yate in 1851 had a son also called Christopher Keeling who was baptised in 1828 at The Tabernacle Calvanistic Methodist chapel at Wotton Under Edge, Glos. It appears that your Isaac, Jacob and Christopher Keeling are probably brothers. Bernice ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRISTOL_AND_DISTRICT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Bernice, Thank you very much for your help. Once I have examined all the extra information I may well be able to link everything up - or of course I may have to decide it is not the same family. The fact that my Isaac was born in Poynton is what drew me to this man. Sadly, the family have a history of ditching their wives and taking off somewhere. I have been researching my paternal KEELING family since 2006 and only recently managed to get back this far. With my maternal family of DOWNES I have managed to get back to 1670 as they all stayed in and around Shropshire - much easier. Although I have visited various Record Offices and joined several FHS I would not have got this far without the help of the various Rootsweb lists. I find everyone so helpful, although I only post a query when I consider that I have exhausted all the avenues that I know about (that's not so many, but I'm learning all the time). I had noticed the mention that he was blind, but on the 1861 census it does not state this. Ah well, it's all good fun Once again, thank you so much for your help. Best wishes Roy