Had a look at Ancestry. The 3 probates are all relations of this family: 1.Guillaume Lucien VERRIERE, b France 1801, died Bristol 1866 2.Elizabeth VERRIERE nee HULL, his 2nd wife born 1805 and died 1876 3.Frederick Lucien Heatly VERRIERE, grandson of the above Guillame, born Woolwich 1859, died unmarried Weare, Somerset 1884 The inheritance must have come from elsewhere! One possible was Louisa (nee WATTS), 2nd wife of WH VERRIERE, who died in Hazel Grove, Cheshire in 1902 - although she was still alive in the 1901 census she may have been supporting him - or he may have been borrowing off the expectation of the inheritance as she was then 72! Marion > Yes, I was interested to see that Louis was a servant in 1881 and I agree > with you, he must have had an inheritance. There are 3 Probates on > Ancestry > for the VERRIERE family. I can't access them because they've changed the > settings and you can only access them if you have their full subscription. > Liz > www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery <http://www.btinternet.com/%7Ee.newbery> > OPC for Street, Somerset > >

It gets deeper. William Heatly VERRIERE married Jane Henrietta GREEN in 1857. However there is a marriage in Lambeth in 1888 for a Letitia Ada VERRIERE who was born about 1855. I found Letitia in the 1901 census and it shows her birthplace as Bristol, about 1854-5 Looking at birth registrations there is a Letitia Ada GREEN registered Dec qtr 1853 in Clifton, the area where WH Verriere lived. Presumably an illegitimate daughter who was later legitimated by the marriage. I suspect he liked the ladies. But probably didn't like being married!! Marion On 19 December 2010 19:41, Liz <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, it was his marriage to Jane Henrietta GREEN. > > Yes, I was interested to see that Louis was a servant in 1881 and I agree > with you, he must have had an inheritance. There are 3 Probates on > Ancestry > for the VERRIERE family. I can't access them because they've changed the > settings and you can only access them if you have their full subscription. > Liz > www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery <http://www.btinternet.com/%7Ee.newbery> > OPC for Street, Somerset > >

Marion wrote: > I'm just on the NA site now. I have looked in the past for Harry's birth > under both names. Now that the BMDs for Lancashire are online, I'll take > another look and see if it's there. It's quite possible you could find it there. Not all BMDs made it to the GRO and not all made it into the registers. > I do like a good mystery and I really appreciate the internet resources that > help us so quickly these days. I started researching in the days when you > had to wait until your annual holiday to do your research! You and me both then :)) I was lucky I used to work flexitime and was able to get an extra day off every month which I could spend at a record office or one of the London repositories. I lived near and worked in London at the time. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Yes, it was his marriage to Jane Henrietta GREEN. Yes, I was interested to see that Louis was a servant in 1881 and I agree with you, he must have had an inheritance. There are 3 Probates on Ancestry for the VERRIERE family. I can't access them because they've changed the settings and you can only access them if you have their full subscription. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [B&D] Divorce, bigamy or annulment? early 20th Century > Hi Liz > > Thank you for your input! > > The WH Verriere who married in 1858, was this Louis Victor's father. This > marriage apparently ended in divorce in 1864.

Good instincts Liz! Yes I suspect that neither chap was very easy to live with! Marion On 19 December 2010 19:07, Liz <[email protected]> wrote: > Sounds like they were a very interesting family. I felt convinced that > he'd > divorced...sounds like both father and son were somewhat "wayward"!!! I > love a good mystery. > Liz > www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery <http://www.btinternet.com/%7Ee.newbery> > OPC for Street, Somerset > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marion" <[email protected]> > To: "bristol district" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 7:04 PM > Subject: Re: [B&D] Divorce, bigamy or annulment? early 20th Century > > > > Thanks to Charani and Liz > > > > I have now found that there was a divorce between Mary and Louis in 1907, > > listed on the National Archives site. I have also found a divorce for his > > father, William, in 1864. In both cases the petition was by the wife. > > > > thanks for your help!! Marion > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I'm just on the NA site now. I have looked in the past for Harry's birth under both names. Now that the BMDs for Lancashire are online, I'll take another look and see if it's there. I do like a good mystery and I really appreciate the internet resources that help us so quickly these days. I started researching in the days when you had to wait until your annual holiday to do your research! Marion On 19 December 2010 19:06, Charani <[email protected]> wrote: > Marion wrote: > > > Thank you for these hints. > > YW :)) > > > I looked on FMP and didn't find this couple but I did find his > > father, William Heatly VERRIERE, who apparently divorced his first > > wife Jane Henrietta nee GREEN in 1864. > > You should be able to find that in the National Archives and be able > to download the first 10 pages more or less immediately or ask for the > whole file relating to them to be sent to you. > > > Louis and Mary were together in 1901, with son Harry who was > > apparently born in Manchester in 1891, but I have not yet found his > > birth registration. They didn't marry until 1892. > > Have you looked for Harry's birth under his mother's maiden name? > > > The more I find about this family, the more tangled it gets! Just > > the thing for a snowbound evening!! > > I have a family like that too :)) Fun, aren't they? :)) > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM > Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Sounds like they were a very interesting family. I felt convinced that he'd divorced...sounds like both father and son were somewhat "wayward"!!! I love a good mystery. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion" <[email protected]> To: "bristol district" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [B&D] Divorce, bigamy or annulment? early 20th Century > Thanks to Charani and Liz > > I have now found that there was a divorce between Mary and Louis in 1907, > listed on the National Archives site. I have also found a divorce for his > father, William, in 1864. In both cases the petition was by the wife. > > thanks for your help!! Marion > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Marion wrote: > Thank you for these hints. YW :)) > I looked on FMP and didn't find this couple but I did find his > father, William Heatly VERRIERE, who apparently divorced his first > wife Jane Henrietta nee GREEN in 1864. You should be able to find that in the National Archives and be able to download the first 10 pages more or less immediately or ask for the whole file relating to them to be sent to you. > Louis and Mary were together in 1901, with son Harry who was > apparently born in Manchester in 1891, but I have not yet found his > birth registration. They didn't marry until 1892. Have you looked for Harry's birth under his mother's maiden name? > The more I find about this family, the more tangled it gets! Just > the thing for a snowbound evening!! I have a family like that too :)) Fun, aren't they? :)) -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Thanks to Charani and Liz I have now found that there was a divorce between Mary and Louis in 1907, listed on the National Archives site. I have also found a divorce for his father, William, in 1864. In both cases the petition was by the wife. thanks for your help!! Marion

Hi Liz Thank you for your input! The WH Verriere who married in 1858, was this Louis Victor's father. This marriage apparently ended in divorce in 1864. Guillaume Lucien VERRIERE, the father of WH, was a wine merchant and as you say, wealthy. His company was dissolved in 1876 by his widow Louisa (nee WATTS). I don't think that his son did so well though, and the grandson, Louis, appears as a servant in 1881 and as a waiter in 1891. so its interesting that he was living on his own means in 1901 and possibly he had an inheritance. I'll pursue the divorce theory! Marion On 19 December 2010 18:38, Liz <[email protected]> wrote: > Firstly, if they had a child then I can't see that there could be an > annulment. As Victor sounds as though he's reasonably wealthy - "living on > own means" in 1901 he could well have afforded a divorce. Also, as there's > a son, had Victor committed bigamy then surely the son would be aware of > what was going on. > > There is a marriage in London on 2nd November 1857 - reported in the > Bristol > Mercury on 2nd January 1858 at St Clement Danes, Strand, London of W H > Verriere only son of G L Verriere Esq of this city to Jane Henrietta only > daughter of Mr Green late of Clifton. I imagine this is a relation but not > a > brother as he's referred to as "only son of". > > Vigger G L VERRIERE was one of the gentlemen who attended the luncheon of > the Anchor Society in Bristol in November 1836 in honour of Colston's > Anniversary. > > The family appear to have been very wealthy and so I see no reason why they > couldn't have afforded a divorce. Father or grandfather appears to have > come from France, the family were involved in Importing produce from > France. > > I would say it's most likely to be a divorce. > > Liz > www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery <http://www.btinternet.com/%7Ee.newbery> > OPC for Street, Somerset > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marion" <[email protected]> > To: "bristol district" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 4:57 PM > Subject: [B&D] Divorce, bigamy or annulment? early 20th Century > > > > Any input on this question would be welcomed. > > > > Louis Victor Choisy VERRIERE (who also used the first name Julius), born > > 1865 in Bristol, married (2ndly) Mary LAMPREY, in 1892 in Stockport. > > > > in 1908 Mary remarried, to Harold ELVIN, and I am sure it is the same > > woman > > as a) the marriage registers index gives both her maiden and married > > surnames and b) in the 1911 census her son, Harry, is living with this > > couple. > > > > Louis, however, also remarried in 1909, to Harriet WILSON, and this > couple > > can also be found together in 1911, this time he is indexed as Victor. > > > > I'm pretty sure that divorce was expensive and rare in those days, but is > > there way to find evidence if one took place? > > > > These people are not closely related to me but married "into the family" > - > > the sheer difficulty of finding them through the various census has kept > > me > > intrigued. > > > > Marion > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Charani Thank you for these hints. I looked on FMP and didn't find this couple but I did find his father, William Heatly VERRIERE, who apparently divorced his first wife Jane Henrietta nee GREEN in 1864. Louis and Mary were together in 1901, with son Harry who was apparently born in Manchester in 1891, but I have not yet found his birth registration. They didn't marry until 1892. Louis's first wife, Hannah SIDDONS, died in 1887. The more I find about this family, the more tangled it gets! Just the thing for a snowbound evening!! Marion On 19 December 2010 18:20, Charani <[email protected]> wrote: > Marion wrote: > > > I'm pretty sure that divorce was expensive and rare in those days, but is > > there way to find evidence if one took place? > > You are right to surmise divorce was expensive then. It was nothing > unusual for couples to go their separate ways and be done with it. > > Are the couple together in 1901? Or had they already separated? > > If the couple had separated 7 years earlier and had had no contact > with one another, they were able to marry on the presumption of the > death of their former spouse under the 7 year rule. In the event of > the first spouse reappearing on the scene, no legal action would > normally have been taken against any of the parties even though the > marriage/s would have been bigamous, but the first (legal) marriage > would have stood and the couple would have been expected to resume > their marital state as though nothing had happened. > > Only a fairly small percentage of divorce papers have survived but you > could try either FMP (Marital causes database) or the National > Archives. If you do find the divorce, the papers can include the > names and DoBs of any children, a copy of the marriage cert as well as > any addresses the couple lived at and a wealth of other information. > > One divorce I found appeared to have been contrived because the wife > defended her husband's action by saying he'd put her in such a > position that she had no choice but to commit adultery! > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM > Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Firstly, if they had a child then I can't see that there could be an annulment. As Victor sounds as though he's reasonably wealthy - "living on own means" in 1901 he could well have afforded a divorce. Also, as there's a son, had Victor committed bigamy then surely the son would be aware of what was going on. There is a marriage in London on 2nd November 1857 - reported in the Bristol Mercury on 2nd January 1858 at St Clement Danes, Strand, London of W H Verriere only son of G L Verriere Esq of this city to Jane Henrietta only daughter of Mr Green late of Clifton. I imagine this is a relation but not a brother as he's referred to as "only son of". Vigger G L VERRIERE was one of the gentlemen who attended the luncheon of the Anchor Society in Bristol in November 1836 in honour of Colston's Anniversary. The family appear to have been very wealthy and so I see no reason why they couldn't have afforded a divorce. Father or grandfather appears to have come from France, the family were involved in Importing produce from France. I would say it's most likely to be a divorce. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion" <[email protected]> To: "bristol district" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 4:57 PM Subject: [B&D] Divorce, bigamy or annulment? early 20th Century > Any input on this question would be welcomed. > > Louis Victor Choisy VERRIERE (who also used the first name Julius), born > 1865 in Bristol, married (2ndly) Mary LAMPREY, in 1892 in Stockport. > > in 1908 Mary remarried, to Harold ELVIN, and I am sure it is the same > woman > as a) the marriage registers index gives both her maiden and married > surnames and b) in the 1911 census her son, Harry, is living with this > couple. > > Louis, however, also remarried in 1909, to Harriet WILSON, and this couple > can also be found together in 1911, this time he is indexed as Victor. > > I'm pretty sure that divorce was expensive and rare in those days, but is > there way to find evidence if one took place? > > These people are not closely related to me but married "into the family" - > the sheer difficulty of finding them through the various census has kept > me > intrigued. > > Marion > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Marion wrote: > I'm pretty sure that divorce was expensive and rare in those days, but is > there way to find evidence if one took place? You are right to surmise divorce was expensive then. It was nothing unusual for couples to go their separate ways and be done with it. Are the couple together in 1901? Or had they already separated? If the couple had separated 7 years earlier and had had no contact with one another, they were able to marry on the presumption of the death of their former spouse under the 7 year rule. In the event of the first spouse reappearing on the scene, no legal action would normally have been taken against any of the parties even though the marriage/s would have been bigamous, but the first (legal) marriage would have stood and the couple would have been expected to resume their marital state as though nothing had happened. Only a fairly small percentage of divorce papers have survived but you could try either FMP (Marital causes database) or the National Archives. If you do find the divorce, the papers can include the names and DoBs of any children, a copy of the marriage cert as well as any addresses the couple lived at and a wealth of other information. One divorce I found appeared to have been contrived because the wife defended her husband's action by saying he'd put her in such a position that she had no choice but to commit adultery! -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Any input on this question would be welcomed. Louis Victor Choisy VERRIERE (who also used the first name Julius), born 1865 in Bristol, married (2ndly) Mary LAMPREY, in 1892 in Stockport. in 1908 Mary remarried, to Harold ELVIN, and I am sure it is the same woman as a) the marriage registers index gives both her maiden and married surnames and b) in the 1911 census her son, Harry, is living with this couple. Louis, however, also remarried in 1909, to Harriet WILSON, and this couple can also be found together in 1911, this time he is indexed as Victor. I'm pretty sure that divorce was expensive and rare in those days, but is there way to find evidence if one took place? These people are not closely related to me but married "into the family" - the sheer difficulty of finding them through the various census has kept me intrigued. Marion

You might find this interesting ~~ http://napoleonic-literature.com/Articles/28th_Foot/Chapter_1.htm Cheers, Edna - snowy Ottawa Merry Christmas and a Healthy New Year

Please can anyone tell me where I might be able to find non-conformist baptism records for Midsomer Norton in the 1840s? I'm looking for some record of the birth of my g-grandfather Albert James HOME - he was Congregationalist, and was born in Midsomer Norton about 1846. I haven't found him in the civil registration of births. (His surname was sometimes - wrongly - spelt HOLMES.) Thanks, Margaret Hayon [HOME] Galilee, Israel

Hi List, Could sks advise me as to where property ownership records in Bristol are kept. In South Africa they are in the local Deeds Office as opposed to the archives. Regards, David Bossenger

Just goes to show benefit cheats are nothing new Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHLEEN LOPEZ" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 1:40 AM Subject: [B&D] interesting comments from records This chat about information from church records reminds me of something I copied out from the register of Newington, Kent. Oct. 16,1785, Burials, Hannah Morgan. This woman received alms of the Parish about 16 years and at her death it was currently reported and generally believed that she was in posession of about £500. A sad instance of hypocritical duplicity. Henry Friend Curate. Seems impossible that any old woman could save that much money in 1785. However, Henry Friend wrote it up in the Parish Register for all to read. Kathleen in Toronto ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My Great Grandfather was born in James Street, Bristol on the 12 March 1863. The family moved to Nottingham soon after and therefore I would be interested to know if anyone can help with a Baptism date and the name and location of the Church. David Lindsell

Quite a few churches in Bristol, a few denominations, pick out the one you think and then search for its parish records: www.churchcrawler.co.uk Cheers, Edna - sunny Ottawa ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lindsell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 1:20 PM Subject: [B&D] Frank LINDSELL My Great Grandfather was born in James Street, Bristol on the 12 March 1863. The family moved to Nottingham soon after and therefore I would be interested to know if anyone can help with a Baptism date and the name and location of the Church. David Lindsell