Question - Is the surname JEFFERIES/JEFFERYS/JEFFERY considered an English surname and/or Welsh since Bristol is so near Wales??       I ask this because my granddaughter married into a family with the surname JEFFERY.  They have no idea of the ethnic origins of the surname.  They are light blond/reddish curly hair, freckles, very fair skin tones and blue eyes.        Actually, we are of Irish origins and still have family living in the Republic.  This is very like our family with the exception of a few we call "Black" Irish; very black hair, blue eyes and sallow complexion.        Since we have data for our Irish families back to the 1770s, my granddaughter Molly would love to start research for her children re: their paternal side.       Any advice is most welcome. Mary Ellen Chambers Lakewood, OH

Hello again David About the Redland, Bristol address. House is not on Ordnance Survey map of 1883 ( land is still grounds of Redland Court) but is on map dated 1899 - seems it was built between 1883 and 1899*. The house has sometimes been called "The Wilderness". I don't have full access to the 1911 census but the summary census record shows a Mr Perry as the occupier of 9 Woodstock Road but shows inhabitants at the census as 2 females !! ( Mr Perry possibly absent on the census night) I think one of the people counted is Emma Perry though the official 1911 website indexes her as Emma Parry 70 years old. Ties in with the entry for the house in 1901 census - Henry C Perry 60 and wife Emma Perry 59 ( Also a Florence Perry aged 23 listed as Domestic Servant at 13 Woodstock Rd - possibly their daughter !). Maybe you know all this already - apologies if so. *I have just noticed that Henry Perry and wife Emma are listed at "The Wilderness" in 1891 census so house was obviously built before that. Cheers Ian L > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David and Mary Bossenger" <[email protected]> 29 Dec 2010 >> I am actually looking for two residences in the UK. One in Bristol: 9 >> Woodstock Rd, Redlands which is now used by the girls school over the >> road. >> The period in question is 1890-1930. I suspect the owner was one H >> Charles >> PERRY.

In 1891 the houses in Woodstock Road appear to have names not numbers. It was called "The Wilderness" and occupied by Henry C PERRY In 1901 a Henry C PERRY was living at 9 Woodstock Road - he was a Stock Broker & Insurance Agent. Bristol Archives have Building Plans for houses in Woodstock Road (see their online catalogue) dated from 1886 including one dated 1927 for a garage at "The Wilderness" for a George CRISPIN - not sure whether that is the owner or the architect. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "David and Mary Bossenger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 3:59 AM Subject: [B&D] Property records in Bristol > Once again thank you to all who certainly enlightened me. > I am actually looking for two residences in the UK. One in Bristol: 9 > Woodstock Rd, Redlands which is now used by the girls school over the > road. > The period in question is 1890-1930. I suspect the owner was one H > Charles > PERRY. I approached the school in person in 2004 but without any joy. As > I > will be over for my youngest son's wedding in April I thought that there > would be some place that would be able to supply the answer. I now > realize > that it will be more complicated that I thought. > The second is "Avalon", the Avenue, Kingston near Lewes and between > 1910-1940. > Now if only there was a Deeds Office it would be simple :-) > David Bossenger > > > 4. Property records in England (David and Mary Bossenger) > 5. Re: Property records in England (Charani) > 6. Re: Property records in England (Liz) > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello again David Have you established who was living at these two addresses in the 1891,1901,1911 census' ? Can be done online, though not always free of charge.Larger houses in urban areas were usually occupied by the owners, but not always of course. Bristol Central Library holds quite a few Directories from the period ( Kellys, Matthews etc) and these may contain entries for the address in Redland. They also hold old phone directories which may help identify the occupiers after 1911. Similar records should be available locally for the Lewes address. If you are interested in when and by whom the houses were built you might consider contacting neighbours occupying similar houses nearby - they might have, or have access to, their own deeds which should have the builders details for Victorian or Edwardian houses. BUT DO REMEMBER THAT NEIGHBOURS MAY NOT WISH TO DISCUSS SUCH DETAILS. Cheers Ian L ----- Original Message ----- From: "David and Mary Bossenger" <[email protected]> 29 Dec 2010 > I am actually looking for two residences in the UK. One in Bristol: 9 > Woodstock Rd, Redlands which is now used by the girls school over the > road. > The period in question is 1890-1930. I suspect the owner was one H > Charles > PERRY. I approached the school in person in 2004 but without any joy. As > I > will be over for my youngest son's wedding in April I thought that there > would be some place that would be able to supply the answer. I now > realize > that it will be more complicated that I thought. > The second is "Avalon", the Avenue, Kingston near Lewes and between > 1910-1940. > Now if only there was a Deeds Office it would be simple :-) > David Bossenger

Mike Gould wrote: > The Bristol Central Library on College Green holds a series of Street > Directories that may be of use when you're over here, if you want to find > out when your families moved into and out of an address. They cover the > period in which you're interested. Most of them will simply record who the > head of household is at an address for a particular year. Some Trade > Direectories will also record their occupation. The electoral rolls might also help with the occupants who were eligible to vote in any year. I'm not sure whether they will be at the record office or central library though but I'm sure someone will know :)) -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Dear David, The Bristol Central Library on College Green holds a series of Street Directories that may be of use when you're over here, if you want to find out when your families moved into and out of an address. They cover the period in which you're interested. Most of them will simply record who the head of household is at an address for a particular year. Some Trade Direectories will also record their occupation. Hope this helps, Mike Gould Leicestershire -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David and Mary Bossenger Sent: 29 December 2010 04:00 To: [email protected] Subject: [B&D] Property records in Bristol Once again thank you to all who certainly enlightened me. I am actually looking for two residences in the UK. One in Bristol: 9 Woodstock Rd, Redlands which is now used by the girls school over the road. The period in question is 1890-1930. I suspect the owner was one H Charles PERRY. I approached the school in person in 2004 but without any joy. As I will be over for my youngest son's wedding in April I thought that there would be some place that would be able to supply the answer. I now realize that it will be more complicated that I thought. The second is "Avalon", the Avenue, Kingston near Lewes and between 1910-1940. Now if only there was a Deeds Office it would be simple :-) David Bossenger 4. Property records in England (David and Mary Bossenger) 5. Re: Property records in England (Charani) 6. Re: Property records in England (Liz) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi David Perhaps this site also might help. We still don't know what exactly you want to find out and the time frame. http://www.howto.co.uk/property/research-house-history/ Property history in the UK goes back a long way - I am currently working on Welsh Manor records from 1741. There are many references to fields and houses and who owned what with measurements and descriptions including references to what I think is the parish boundary system. Regards Lyn In Oz. > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of David and Mary Bossenger > Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2010 5:10 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [B&D] Property records in England > > Thank you to all who have replied. > I can see that the answer is not as simple as it would be in > South Africa where we practice mainly Roman-Dutch law with a > large English influence. > Records of all title deeds are kept in the local Deeds Office > and copies are > issued to each new owner after cancellation of the previous > deed. Property > transfers cannot take place without a Deeds Office clearance > and we have lawyers who specialize in property conveyancing. > My question as someone who is ignorant of English property > law was to me > simple and was thus couched in simple general terms. I now > understand that > English law is different and I can now also understand how > "Gezumping" (sp) > can occur. The practice is unheard of in SA. > I am sorry that some peoples crystal balls are in for service > but they wouldn't be needed to answer the question where I come from. > Any offence given to anybody by my "simple" question is regretted. > David Bossenger > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message

Once again thank you to all who certainly enlightened me. I am actually looking for two residences in the UK. One in Bristol: 9 Woodstock Rd, Redlands which is now used by the girls school over the road. The period in question is 1890-1930. I suspect the owner was one H Charles PERRY. I approached the school in person in 2004 but without any joy. As I will be over for my youngest son's wedding in April I thought that there would be some place that would be able to supply the answer. I now realize that it will be more complicated that I thought. The second is "Avalon", the Avenue, Kingston near Lewes and between 1910-1940. Now if only there was a Deeds Office it would be simple :-) David Bossenger 4. Property records in England (David and Mary Bossenger) 5. Re: Property records in England (Charani) 6. Re: Property records in England (Liz)

Hi David I personally don't know but searching with Google I discovered that there is no land registry in Bristol and that the nearest one is Gloucester. I also found this http://www.landregistrydeeds.co.uk/ Regards Lyn In Oz. > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of David and Mary Bossenger > Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2010 8:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [B&D] Property records in Bristol > > Hi list, > I am repeating my request in the hope of a reply. > Regards, > David Bossenger > > > > > Could sks advise me as to where property ownership records in > Bristol are > kept. In South Africa they are kept in the local Deeds > Office as opposed > to the > archives. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message

Thank you to all who have replied. I can see that the answer is not as simple as it would be in South Africa where we practice mainly Roman-Dutch law with a large English influence. Records of all title deeds are kept in the local Deeds Office and copies are issued to each new owner after cancellation of the previous deed. Property transfers cannot take place without a Deeds Office clearance and we have lawyers who specialize in property conveyancing. My question as someone who is ignorant of English property law was to me simple and was thus couched in simple general terms. I now understand that English law is different and I can now also understand how "Gezumping" (sp) can occur. The practice is unheard of in SA. I am sorry that some peoples crystal balls are in for service but they wouldn't be needed to answer the question where I come from. Any offence given to anybody by my "simple" question is regretted. David Bossenger

Yes, it really is worth writing to the present address. I have my Deeds going back to 1823 and they are absolutely fascinating. I can compare the Deeds to the censuses to see who else was living in the house, what the house was sold for, etc. You can get your deeds registered now, I considered it but it means that they take your Deeds from you and they are then destroyed and modern ones issued. People sell old documents on the internet, others frame them and have them on the wall. Each country is different for absolutely everything from birth, marriage and death certificates, censuses and census rules, deeds, leases, Wills, etc. etc. I love South African death records...ours are pretty useless most of the time and only ever any good if the death was accidental, murder, etc. in which case the records are often in the newspapers many of which are available for the 19th century. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [B&D] Property records in England > David and Mary Bossenger wrote: >> Thank you to all who have replied. >> I can see that the answer is not as simple as it would be in South >> Africa >> where we practice mainly Roman-Dutch law with a large English influence. >> Records of all title deeds are kept in the local Deeds Office and copies >> are >> issued to each new owner after cancellation of the previous deed. >> Property >> transfers cannot take place without a Deeds Office clearance and we have >> lawyers who specialize in property conveyancing. > > If you can locate the deeds you're looking for, then you can often get > a detailed list of previous owners if the property has changed hands > a number of times, plans of the property, details of any restrictions > various owners have applied and so on. House history can be very > interesting. > > If you give us the date you're interested in and the address, then we > can see what we can do to help. > >> My question as someone who is ignorant of English property law was to me >> simple and was thus couched in simple general terms. I now understand >> that >> English law is different and I can now also understand how "Gezumping" >> (sp) >> can occur. The practice is unheard of in SA. > > TBH, gazumping shouldn't be allowed over here either. > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM > Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

David and Mary Bossenger wrote: > Thank you to all who have replied. > I can see that the answer is not as simple as it would be in South Africa > where we practice mainly Roman-Dutch law with a large English influence. > Records of all title deeds are kept in the local Deeds Office and copies are > issued to each new owner after cancellation of the previous deed. Property > transfers cannot take place without a Deeds Office clearance and we have > lawyers who specialize in property conveyancing. If you can locate the deeds you're looking for, then you can often get a detailed list of previous owners if the property has changed hands a number of times, plans of the property, details of any restrictions various owners have applied and so on. House history can be very interesting. If you give us the date you're interested in and the address, then we can see what we can do to help. > My question as someone who is ignorant of English property law was to me > simple and was thus couched in simple general terms. I now understand that > English law is different and I can now also understand how "Gezumping" (sp) > can occur. The practice is unheard of in SA. TBH, gazumping shouldn't be allowed over here either. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Mary Ellen Chambers wrote: > > I am seeking records re: the family of my great great grandfather David > TOWNSEND; church/sacramental, possible business records and death. He was > Protestant but do not know what denomination. Since you are looking for some post civil registration records (ie after 1 July 1837), one of the first places to go, which is free of charge, is www.freeBMD.org.uk If you haven't visited it before it an index of all the births, marriages and deaths to be found in the GRO Indices. It is a volunteer project so not yet complete but it's as far as 1940, so "only" another 43 years to go :)) The births and deaths are not available online at all so the only way of getting the details is to buy the relevant certificates which you can do either direct from the GRO itself (9.25 GBP, post free anywhere in the world) or from the relevant local register office (9GBP but postage and/or a handling fee may be required). You can order certs online from the GRO but not all register offices accept online orders or payment by credit/debit card. *Don't* order from Ancestry or any other certificate "service" as they charge well over the true price and have to order from one or other of the above sources anyway. Sister projects are www.freeREG.org.uk which is the transcription of parish registers. Again it's a volunteer project and has a very long way to go. Parish registers started in 1538 but not all of those survive by any means. The transcriptions will go up to 1910 (currently). The third sister project is www.freeCEN.org.uk which is a volunteer project transcribing all the censuses from 1841 to 1901. Like the others, it is not yet complete. I don't know if any of the rare 1801, 1811, 1821 and 1831 survivals which actually give names will be included but I presume they will. > He was a coach maker, per the 1862 civil marriage record for my g > grandfather Fredrick J. TOWNSEND in Limerick City County Limerick Ireland. G > Grandfather was known as John. > David and his family resided in the Bristol area of England. He may have > Welsh origins but cannon locate any definitive data for Wales. I found him & > his family in the 1861 census but my g grandfather was already in Ireland at > this time. His younger brother William is listed along with sisters. The > mother's name is listed as Eliza but her age makes me think she could be a 2nd > wife or there is a census error. You may be able to resolve this with FreeBMD. > I have followed this family via census records to 1911 with the occupation > listed as coach maker for father & son William. I figured that it may have been > a "dying or dead" occupation by this time. Horse drawn coaches and carriages, yes, but not railways carriages/ coaches (railcars) or motor cars. That said horse drawn carriages are still made today. > Based on by g grandfather year of birth (1840) and William as 1846, David > was probably born about 1820. Also, William's birthplace on census is listed as > Wales. The districts in Wales will have volume numbers of 26 (south Wales) and 27 (north Wales). You won't find English/Welsh certificates as informative as US ones. For what is and is not on them, you'll find this site useful: http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/indexbd.htm For pre-civil registration baptisms, burials and marriages, there's the IGI (but be very wary of patron submissions which can vary from complete accuracy to pure fantasy and all points in between), FreeREG and the Bristol & Avon Family History Society data CDs. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

The Kennet & Avon Canal that runs between Bristol and Reading is 200 years old. Its birthday is being celebrated with a new avenue of 29 oak trees> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-12083685 -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Hello David Not sure if you are interested in current or historic property records. Property information for the last 50 years or so for many but not all properties in England and Wales is held by the Land Registry, a Government office which keeps the official record of registered titles. Almost all of the information is available for public access but there are fees to be paid. A lot of information about the system can be found at www.landregistry.gov.uk including a basic guide at http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/assets/library/documents/public_guide_001.html . In many areas of the country recent planning applications and decisions can be viewed online and sometimes this will give information about the property. For a given address look at the relevant County Council website which should tell you how to access Planning applications/decisions - sometimes it will be necessary to go the website of a lower level of local government eg a Borough Council. For historic property information it is worth searching the online catalogues of the County Record offices. Requires a bit of perseverance, searching using place names, addresses, family/business names. The Record offices hold old wills, leases, tithe maps etc, and the online catalogues sometimes reveal interesting property details, though it will often be necessary to go and look at the actual documents, or ask someone else to do so for you. Happy hunting Ian L Original Message ----- From: "David and Mary Bossenger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 10:58 AM Subject: [B&D] Property records in Bristol > > Hi list, > I am repeating my request in the hope of a reply. > Regards, > David Bossenger > > > > > Could sks advise me as to where property ownership records in Bristol are > kept. In South Africa they are kept in the local Deeds Office as opposed > to the > archives. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

> For family history research into property, the Land Registry recommend the House Detectives, > but they are a research/consultancy service with fees starting @ £250 per day! The House Detectives > website (shortened link below) might give you some (free) pointers to the different sources of > information that might be available, but as they say, this will vary from property to property. > http://tinyurl.com/2uplgj6 Sorry, that link didn't work - it was displaying the correct page on my screen, but the link just takes you back to the Land Registry portal. Try this: http://www.house-detectives.co.uk/archive.htm Jan > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:15:39 +0000 > Subject: Re: [B&D] Property records in Bristol > > > > > Could sks advise me as to where property ownership records in Bristol are > > > kept. In South Africa they are kept in the local Deeds Office as opposed > > > to the archives. > > > > You don't give a time frame and without that, no one can give you a > > definitive answer. > > It would also help to know exactly what it is you're trying to find out, David. Do you actually want to see the deeds or could you get the information another way? I was going to suggest the Land Registry as a starting point, but I've looked at their website and they only seem to focus on the current ownership and prices of property/land. > > For family history research into property, the Land Registry recommend the House Detectives, but they are a research/consultancy service with fees starting @ £250 per day! The House Detectives website (shortened link below) might give you some (free) pointers to the different sources of information that might be available, but as they say, this will vary from property to property.http://tinyurl.com/2uplgj6 > Hope this helps, > > Jan > > Beaconsfield, UK > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> > Could sks advise me as to where property ownership records in Bristol are > > kept. In South Africa they are kept in the local Deeds Office as opposed > > to the archives. > > You don't give a time frame and without that, no one can give you a > definitive answer. It would also help to know exactly what it is you're trying to find out, David. Do you actually want to see the deeds or could you get the information another way? I was going to suggest the Land Registry as a starting point, but I've looked at their website and they only seem to focus on the current ownership and prices of property/land. For family history research into property, the Land Registry recommend the House Detectives, but they are a research/consultancy service with fees starting @ £250 per day! The House Detectives website (shortened link below) might give you some (free) pointers to the different sources of information that might be available, but as they say, this will vary from property to property.http://tinyurl.com/2uplgj6 Hope this helps, Jan Beaconsfield, UK

Hi list, I am repeating my request in the hope of a reply. Regards, David Bossenger Could sks advise me as to where property ownership records in Bristol are kept. In South Africa they are kept in the local Deeds Office as opposed to the archives.

I hold my own deeds because I don't have a mortgage. The best solution is to write to the present owner of the property or if it's rented, write to the tenant and request that your letter be forwarded to the owner. You can then ask the owner if they know where the Deeds are now. As Charani says, if there is a mortgage then the mortgage society/bank will hold the Deeds which will be released to a solicitor if and when the property is being sold. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset

David and Mary Bossenger wrote: > Hi list, > I am repeating my request in the hope of a reply. > Could sks advise me as to where property ownership records in Bristol are > kept. In South Africa they are kept in the local Deeds Office as opposed > to the archives. You don't give a time frame and without that, no one can give you a definitive answer. Modern property deeds were/are held by a solicitor if the property has no mortgage on it or by the building society/bank if there is although I believe there was a move to put the deeds online. I don't know if that happened or not. For historical deeds they could be held by the family who owned the property and be with privately held family papers, held by the family solicitor, deposited at the record office or no longer exist. In order to get a reply, you need to give definitive information: date, address, name of owner, providing this does not concern living people. Living people requests are not acceptable. Historically, most people rented the property they lived in. They didn't own it outright. If you want help, you'll have to give more information. I don't know about others, but my crystal ball is in for a service. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/