Art, I am interested in whatever you find out about your Ludwig Miller. I am descended from Susannah Miller (1754-1848), whose father was also said to have been Ludwig Miller. The dates that I have for "my" Ludwig (Lodowich) Miller are c1729-1792; he is said to have lived in PA and MD. I have read that some researchers have confused the two men (at any rate, I am certainly confused!), and I am not sure which records pertain to which Ludwig, which are correct and which are not. Any enlightenment would be welcome. Susannah Miller married Michael Wine in Frederick Co, MD; by 1782 they were living in Shenandoah Co, VA. This Wine family was German Baptist and has produced several Church of the Brethren ministers. It is **possible, but not proved, that Susannah had a brother, Jacob Miller (b. 1748) who married Anna Martha Wine, Michael Wine's sister. Are you referring to yDNA or autosomal DNA? My sister, a 1st cousin and I have taken autosomal DNA tests (Family Finder, 23andMe), and we do have some matches with descendants of Susannah Miller and some of her descendants. I would be interested in knowing of other descendants of either Ludwig who have taken autosomal DNA tests and who have their results on GEDmatch.com for comparison. Whatever you learn about "your" Ludwig, please post it to this list. And if any one has figured out the two Ludwigs, please share your findings. Pat Moorefield Seaver On Dec 8, 2013, at 10:45 PM, Art wrote: > Looking for any information on Ludwig Miller who was born in 1720’s and died 1813 in Fayette Co., Pa. He was married to Barbara Grable and per his will had children: Samuel, Nicholas, Catherine, Hannah, Elizabeth, Solomon, David, Mary, Jacob, Abraham and Rebeccah. He lived in Manellen and Luzerne Twps. of Fayette Co. It is reported that he migrated with his cousins, George Craft (born 1727) and Joseph Grable (b.c1725), from Chester Co., Pa. to northern Md (lived on Pa/Md border) in 1750’s then to Fayette Co. about 1771. Have not been able to determine when the cousins came to US and who their parents were (except John Kraft is reported to have been father of George). Indications are that they all came from Nuremberg, Germany. Also, trying to determine what happened to some of Ludwig’s children i.e. David, Mary, Jacob and Rebeccah. Several descendants/researchers have done DNA testing and we would really like to find other Ludwig descendants so we could compare DNA ! results. Based on his associations, it would appear that Ludwig was of Brethren faith. > My personal objective is trying to determine if my David Miller was son of this Ludwig. My David was born early 1750’s, married Deborah Zook (d/o Peter Zook the Brethren preacher), lived in Fayette Co/Washington Co., Pa. in 1780-90’s and migrated to Nelson Co., Ky. in 1795 with his brother-in-law David Zook (he settled in Franklin Co., Ky.). DNA testing shows a familial relationship between my David and Ludwig Miller. Also, proximity and timing work but need more information to nail down the familial relationship. > Any insight into Ludwig and his family would be greatly appreciated. > Art Miller, Louisville > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat, There has been a good deal of research showing your Susannah and her brother Jacob as children of Ludowick Miller who was son of Michael Miller. Both are reported to have married into the Wine line. I can understand the confusion with the Ludwig/Ludowick Millers in the same area. In fact, I know of three to four in northern Md/southern Pa area at the same time. Here is outline of what I have found: >Ludowick Miller as son of Michael. He purchased a tract called Tom's >Chance next to his father's Ash Swamp in 1751 in now Washington Co., Md. >Per 1783 deed settling his father's estate he sold Ash Swamp to his brother >Phillip Jacob Miller. I did not find any data points for Ludowick other >than for land. Some have reported his wife as being Barbara Grable. It is >known that the Michael Miller family in 1727 came from Palatinate in >Germany and settled for a while in Coventry, Chester Co., Pa. I have not >seen any record of Ludowick's death...some report it as 1792 in Taneytown, >Md. >Ludwig Miller who purchased a tract called Hoggs Hall located on Friends >Creek on Pa/Md border in now Franklin Co., Pa. in 1757. He purchased and >sold other tracts most notably to George Craft his cousin that he migrated >with. These transactions appear on both Pa and Md deeds because of the >border dispute at the time. He shows on Antrim Twp (now Washington Twp) in >now Franklin Co., Pa. 1762-1770. He sold his land in 1771 but the deed was >not recorded until 1784 (the deed indicates that Ludwig was present at the >recording). Ludwig's cousins Joseph Grable and George Craft show up in now >Fayette Co. in 1771. Ludwig does not appear until 1776-82 (on a petition >of uncertain date). Ludwig's wife was also Barbara Grable (note same as >reported for Ludowick). This family too came through Coventry, Chester >Co., Pa. and reported came from Nuremburg, Germany. Ludwig died 1813 in >Fayette Co., Pa. >Ludwig Solomon Miller had a 1752 warrant in Manheim Twp of York Co., Pa. >which he sold in 1774. He was member of Lutheran Church in Manheim. He >moved to Hagerstown, Md. 1775 where he died 1779. His wives are reported >to have been Anna Barbara and Maria Barbara. >Another Ludwig Miller was on 1749 petition in Mt. Joy and Mt. Pleasant Twps >of now Adams Co., Pa. He had 1762 warrant for land located in both Germany >and Mt. Joy Twps. He sold the property in 1772 to Henry Myers. He had a >son named Ludwig who died 1795 in Germany. The older Ludwig died 1788 and >his estate showed that he owned land in Taneytown in now Carroll Co., Md. >(interestingly enough Ludowick, son of Michael, was reported to have been >in Taneytown...I'm thinking this was really this Ludwig, not son of >Michael). The best that I can tell, there are four Ludwig/Ludowick Milers involved here. I don't think either of the later two is the one that went to Fayette Co., Pa. Is Ludowick, s/o Michael, same as Ludwig that went to Fayette Co.? Based on my analysis of deeds we find the Ludowick sold his Tom's Chance tract in 1756 and in 1757 a Ludowick of York Co., Pa. purchased the Hogg Hall property. Based on later transactions we know this property was located in far s/e corner of now Franklin Co., Pa on Md. border. Interestingly, he was shown on the deeds as Ludowick and on the tax lists as Ludwig. Still, I feel sure it is the same guy. From this one would think Michael's Ludowick is same as Ludwig that went to Fayette Co. The problem is that Ludowick was present at settlement of his father Michael's estate in 1783 which is after Ludwig was in Fayette Co. This suggests two separate Ludowick/Ludwig Millers. Yet, both are reported to have married a Barbara Grable. Go figure!! Several fellow Ludwig Miller researchers have done the yDNA test and a couple of us have done the Family Finder all through FTDNA. We test out to be haplogroup R1a1/R1a1a. From what we gather about testing for Michael Miller's line he appears to be R1b1a2. If this is correct, it does not appear that Michael's Ludowick is same as the Ludwig that went to Fayette Co. This, along with different family origins, suggests two different Ludowick/Ludwig Millers. I certainly, would welcome any critique of this analysis. I have several Excel worksheets outlining all I know about Ludwig Miller and would be glad to share them. This analysis can be very confusing, so yell if more clarification is needed. Art -----Original Message----- From: Seaver Patricia Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:30 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Ludwig Miller of Fayette Co., Pa. Art, I am interested in whatever you find out about your Ludwig Miller. I am descended from Susannah Miller (1754-1848), whose father was also said to have been Ludwig Miller. The dates that I have for "my" Ludwig (Lodowich) Miller are c1729-1792; he is said to have lived in PA and MD. I have read that some researchers have confused the two men (at any rate, I am certainly confused!), and I am not sure which records pertain to which Ludwig, which are correct and which are not. Any enlightenment would be welcome. Susannah Miller married Michael Wine in Frederick Co, MD; by 1782 they were living in Shenandoah Co, VA. This Wine family was German Baptist and has produced several Church of the Brethren ministers. It is **possible, but not proved, that Susannah had a brother, Jacob Miller (b. 1748) who married Anna Martha Wine, Michael Wine's sister. Are you referring to yDNA or autosomal DNA? My sister, a 1st cousin and I have taken autosomal DNA tests (Family Finder, 23andMe), and we do have some matches with descendants of Susannah Miller and some of her descendants. I would be interested in knowing of other descendants of either Ludwig who have taken autosomal DNA tests and who have their results on GEDmatch.com for comparison. Whatever you learn about "your" Ludwig, please post it to this list. And if any one has figured out the two Ludwigs, please share your findings. Pat Moorefield Seaver On Dec 8, 2013, at 10:45 PM, Art wrote: > Looking for any information on Ludwig Miller who was born in 1720’s and > died 1813 in Fayette Co., Pa. He was married to Barbara Grable and per > his will had children: Samuel, Nicholas, Catherine, Hannah, Elizabeth, > Solomon, David, Mary, Jacob, Abraham and Rebeccah. He lived in Manellen > and Luzerne Twps. of Fayette Co. It is reported that he migrated with his > cousins, George Craft (born 1727) and Joseph Grable (b.c1725), from > Chester Co., Pa. to northern Md (lived on Pa/Md border) in 1750’s then to > Fayette Co. about 1771. Have not been able to determine when the cousins > came to US and who their parents were (except John Kraft is reported to > have been father of George). Indications are that they all came from > Nuremberg, Germany. Also, trying to determine what happened to some of > Ludwig’s children i.e. David, Mary, Jacob and Rebeccah. Several > descendants/researchers have done DNA testing and we would really like to > find other Ludwig descendants so we could compare DNA results. Based on > his associations, it would appear that Ludwig was of Brethren faith. > My personal objective is trying to determine if my David Miller was son of > this Ludwig. My David was born early 1750’s, married Deborah Zook (d/o > Peter Zook the Brethren preacher), lived in Fayette Co/Washington Co., Pa. > in 1780-90’s and migrated to Nelson Co., Ky. in 1795 with his > brother-in-law David Zook (he settled in Franklin Co., Ky.). DNA testing > shows a familial relationship between my David and Ludwig Miller. Also, > proximity and timing work but need more information to nail down the > familial relationship. > Any insight into Ludwig and his family would be greatly appreciated. > Art Miller, Louisville > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message