Thanks much - This is a start on what needs to be done on these known Brethren in the Carolinas. I will save this in my files, with some of the previous information on these churches and families. I am using them to assist in the Kentucky Migration - but this is a lead on those Brethren families who remained in the Carolinas. I still want to know more about the Crane Creek Church (just found a Brethren Casper Miller, who lived at Salisbury, his son Adam moved to Washington Co IN, 1824). Roger Sappington presented what he could find out on the Carolina churches in his History of the Brethren in North Carolina. This is the next step, because there is more information like this out there. I'm finding in Kentucky that the main way to learn of these churches which have disappeared, is to trace the families. And that is what we are doing in our family genealogies. That is what I've been doing with these Kentucky families -where they came from. I've told myself I'm taking a break on the work on the Kentucky Book (some of these "new" families need more research), maybe I'll pull together a start on these Carolina churches (my daughter is not going to be happy). I do have another interest here, included in your answer. Who is this Christopher Guise? There is a major frontiersman of western Pennsylvania, Christopher Gist. This Christopher Gist had a "plantation" near Uniontown PA. He led General Braddock's army toward Fort Duquesne (1755). He was an early explorer into Ohio. He moved south, presumably to Georgia. He signed the petition from Fort Redstone, with the Brethren of Brothers Valley and Washington Co PA. I picked up a copy of his "Journals", at Fort Necessity last summer (and haven't ready it yet). Is there a connection of these two men? or are they the same man? Was Christopher Gist Brethren? The Brethren Encyclopedia was written what 30 years ago. I know I wrote on what I knew then, and some of that has since proven to be incorrect. I'm finding the same true about what others wrote. And there is a lot more The 4th Volume was to correct these, but I admit, I didn't send anything more in, partially because I'm still finding out new things. But it is like Jeff Bach just reminded me - at some point, we have to present what we know now. Merle C Rummel > > There were three Brethren churches west of the Catawba River. The earliest > church, Killians Meeting House, later became regular Baptist and was located > in eastern Lincoln County. It began in the middle 1750's with Christopher > Guise (variously spelled) and Abraham Earhard as ministers. Mountain View > Baptist has an older cemetery which is the remnants of Lebanon Lutheran > Church. Lebanon was a later Lutheran church of Killians Meeting House. > Evidence suggests that Killians Meeting House was originally a union church > of Lutheran, Reformed, and Brethren. Rev. Lemuel Saunders, apparently a > regular Baptist, came to minister to the remains of the Brethren at Killians > Meeting House after the American Revolution. Many Brethren moved away just > before, during and after the Revolution. Some were Tories and Neutrals and > some just moved. > > Two other Brethren churches located in western Lincoln and western Catawba > County were both named Thessalonica. Their ministers were Henry Rhodes and > Lorentz Linhardt. I believe that members of the Thessalonica located in > present western Lincoln County joined Mt. Zion Baptist Church near present > Cherryville in present Gaston County. Many of the Catawba County members of > Thessalonica, the Millers and Bakers, moved to Cape Girardeau Missouri where > Peter Baker established a Brethren congregation around 1800, the Whitewater > congregation. They intermingled with the Rowan and Uwarrhi (spelling) > Hendricks. The Catawba County Thessalonica Church also became regular > Baptist Church. > > The two Thessalonica Brethren churches were served by Henry Rhodes and > Lorentz Linhardt. Both died in early 1830's and apparently no other > Brethren ministers served these congregations. Members apparently then > joined regular Baptist churches. > > More research needs to be done on these churches. I have seen no evidence > that the Brethren Church even recognizes Linhardt and Rhodes as ministers. > I have primary documentation that they were Dunker/Tunker ministers. > > I am not at all certain about the Rowan and Stanley County, NC churches. > > Hope this helps, >

Dear Merle, Christopher Guice (variously spelled) is on page 576 of the Brethren Encyclopedia Vol I (1983). According to the article he arrived in America in 1740 and Michael Frantz baptized him at Conestoga Church. In 1750 he was involved in the exommunication of Joseph Müller at Conestoga. By 1754 he was purchasing land on Killians Creek in present Lincoln County, NC. The article further states that by 1772 he moved to the Holston settlements and was active as a Brethren minister in Virginia. In 1784 the state of NC awarded him, son Christopher Jr. and son Jonathan land for their noncombatant services in defense of the Cumberland River settlements (later Davidson Co., TN). My research confirms the Brethren Encyclopedia information. He had left NC by 1772. Apparently there was some controversy at the Killian Settlement Meeting House around this time. The three parties deeded their land back to each other at this time. Some Brethren also left the area at this time. I believe that he and Christopher Gist are two different people. Sometime ago this issue was discussed on the mail list and it seemed that someone provided documentation that they were clearly different people. John Scott Davenport in his writings indicates that Philip Earhard also left NC in 1772 and went to the Antietam congregation in Maryland. He notes that as both Brethren ministers left, Lemuel Saunders arrived. He describes Lemuel Saunders as a Brethren enigma. He also describes the split in the Killians Meeting House union church arrangement. My research indicates that this meeting house continued to exist into the 1800's. We may never know or understand all these circumstances. My research suggest strongly that Lemuel Saunders was more regular Baptist than Brethren. He served many regular Baptist congregations west of the Catawba River. Robert Carpenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle C Rummel" <cliff@rtkonline.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [BRE] Carolina Churches > Thanks much - > > This is a start on what needs to be done on these known Brethren in the > Carolinas. I will save this in my files, with some of the previous > information on these churches and families. I am using them to assist > in the Kentucky Migration - but this is a lead on those Brethren > families who remained in the Carolinas. I still want to know more about > the Crane Creek Church (just found a Brethren Casper Miller, who lived > at Salisbury, his son Adam moved to Washington Co IN, 1824). > > Roger Sappington presented what he could find out on the Carolina > churches in his History of the Brethren in North Carolina. This is the > next step, because there is more information like this out there. I'm > finding in Kentucky that the main way to learn of these churches which > have disappeared, is to trace the families. And that is what we are > doing in our family genealogies. That is what I've been doing with > these Kentucky families -where they came from. > > I've told myself I'm taking a break on the work on the Kentucky Book > (some of these "new" families need more research), maybe I'll pull > together a start on these Carolina churches (my daughter is not going to > be happy). > > I do have another interest here, included in your answer. Who is this > Christopher Guise? There is a major frontiersman of western > Pennsylvania, Christopher Gist. This Christopher Gist had a > "plantation" near Uniontown PA. He led General Braddock's army toward > Fort Duquesne (1755). He was an early explorer into Ohio. He moved > south, presumably to Georgia. He signed the petition from Fort > Redstone, with the Brethren of Brothers Valley and Washington Co PA. I > picked up a copy of his "Journals", at Fort Necessity last summer (and > haven't ready it yet). Is there a connection of these two men? or are > they the same man? Was Christopher Gist Brethren? > > The Brethren Encyclopedia was written what 30 years ago. I know I wrote > on what I knew then, and some of that has since proven to be incorrect. > I'm finding the same true about what others wrote. And there is a lot > more The 4th Volume was to correct these, but I admit, I didn't send > anything more in, partially because I'm still finding out new things. > But it is like Jeff Bach just reminded me - at some point, we have to > present what we know now. > > Merle C Rummel > >> >> There were three Brethren churches west of the Catawba River. The >> earliest >> church, Killians Meeting House, later became regular Baptist and was >> located >> in eastern Lincoln County. It began in the middle 1750's with >> Christopher >> Guise (variously spelled) and Abraham Earhard as ministers. Mountain >> View >> Baptist has an older cemetery which is the remnants of Lebanon Lutheran >> Church. Lebanon was a later Lutheran church of Killians Meeting House. >> Evidence suggests that Killians Meeting House was originally a union >> church >> of Lutheran, Reformed, and Brethren. Rev. Lemuel Saunders, apparently a >> regular Baptist, came to minister to the remains of the Brethren at >> Killians >> Meeting House after the American Revolution. Many Brethren moved away >> just >> before, during and after the Revolution. Some were Tories and Neutrals >> and >> some just moved. >> >> Two other Brethren churches located in western Lincoln and western >> Catawba >> County were both named Thessalonica. Their ministers were Henry Rhodes >> and >> Lorentz Linhardt. I believe that members of the Thessalonica located in >> present western Lincoln County joined Mt. Zion Baptist Church near >> present >> Cherryville in present Gaston County. Many of the Catawba County members >> of >> Thessalonica, the Millers and Bakers, moved to Cape Girardeau Missouri >> where >> Peter Baker established a Brethren congregation around 1800, the >> Whitewater >> congregation. They intermingled with the Rowan and Uwarrhi (spelling) >> Hendricks. The Catawba County Thessalonica Church also became regular >> Baptist Church. >> >> The two Thessalonica Brethren churches were served by Henry Rhodes and >> Lorentz Linhardt. Both died in early 1830's and apparently no other >> Brethren ministers served these congregations. Members apparently then >> joined regular Baptist churches. >> >> More research needs to be done on these churches. I have seen no >> evidence >> that the Brethren Church even recognizes Linhardt and Rhodes as >> ministers. >> I have primary documentation that they were Dunker/Tunker ministers. >> >> I am not at all certain about the Rowan and Stanley County, NC churches. >> >> Hope this helps, >> > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >