David, This is wonderful work that you have done. Your research is careful and methodical and has added much to what we know about the Surhuisterveen Brethren marriages. You have now added two more marriages to the ones that we knew about previously. I would like to comment on some of the marriages on your list. The May 19, 1721, marriage of John Juriens and Anna Catherine Kipping was (despite the terminology) a three proclamation marriage. Durnbaugh, in his 1958 book, European Origins of the Brethren, page 293, writes that the first proclamation was April 28, 1721; the second proclamation was May 5, 1721; and the third was May 19, 1721. Thus you seem to be correct in saying that this marriage was "placed in the wrong category." By the way, John Juriens was John George Koch. He and his wife Anna Catherine nee Kipping came over on the Ship Allen in 1729. One new marriage that you found is the May 3, 1728, marriage of Johannes Gondy of Surhuisterveen. This is the Hans Gunde whose signature (in his hand) appears in Lists B and C of the Ship Allen of 1729. Hans did not arrive in Philadelphia with a wife, so either she died at sea or didn't come over with him. She was not from Surhuisterveen which might have been a factor. The second new marriage that you found is the January 12, 1727, marriage between two names with which I am unfamiliar. Only the bride was from Surhuisterveen, the husband from Joure. They were not on the Ship Allen. The marriage which is on my list of nine that you do not have on your list of ten is the March 10, 1726, marriage between Hans Hoffer and Catharina Hasse. It might be from a different data base than the one you used. Did you look at "Trouwregister Hervormde gemeente Surhuisterveen, 1688-1772." All the others on my list of nine were from "Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen, 1606-1725." My list of nine seems to have been prepared by someone representing a Dutch Mennonite Church that runs the website where I got my information. This couple did not come over on the Ship Allen. If we combine your list of ten (two on your list not on mine) with my list of nine (one on my list not on yours) we end up with a list of eleven marriages, eight of which were marriages of Brethren who came over on the Ship Allen in 1729. I am especially pleased about your finding the Hans Gunde marriage, which can now be added to those of the other seven Brethren couples who were on the Allen. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 11:15 PM Subject: [BRE] Third proclamation marriages in Surhuisterveen, 1720-1729 > In going through the marriages at the Dutch website, it seemed to me that > the marriages that we know are Brethren through Willoughby's book (see > separate post) were all listed as Derde proclamatie -- Third proclamation > -- and that almost all of the rest were listed as Bevestiging huwelijk -- > Confirmation of marriage (with one exception). I don't know for sure but > I would bet that, despite Holland's liberal attitude towards religious > practice, the country still had a state religion at that time, probably > Dutch Reformed. The Dutch website has the following. > > "In 1811 the 'Burgerlijke Stand', the Registry of Births, Deaths and > Marriages was introduced in the Netherlands. People searching for > personal information dating prior to 1812 will have to rely on other > sources, such as church registers." > > I would guess that Derde proclamatie is the listing given to a > nonconformist marriage that was recorded in the Dutch Reformed Church's > books. I wanted to look up other nonconformist marriages -- like > Mennonites -- but I didn't have any names to work with at the time. In > going through "Counting the Cost" today, I noticed that Wopke Rommerts is > listed as a Mennonite lay preacher on page 106. I vaguely remember > seeing that name in the Dutch database so I will have to look for him to > confirm my suspicions. > > I used the following search terms for what I was looking for. > > Derde proclamatie, Surhuisterveen > > This should have given me all of the Derde proclamatie marriages that had > Surhuisterveen mentioned somewhere in the record. There were 91 such > marriages, with nine occurring in the 1720-1729 time period. The one > apparent exception (mentioned above) for the Brethren marriages is the > marriage of Johan Juriens and Anna Catharina Kipping. I don't know what > happened with that one. It may have been placed in the wrong category > when the Dutch website was indexed. > > The nine (plus one) follow, in chronological order. > > > > Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1721 > Vermelding: Bevestiging huwelijk op 19 mei 1721 > Man : Johan Juriens afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > Vrouw : Anna Catharina Kipping afkomstig van > Surhuisterveen > > Gestandaardiseerde namen: JOHANNES JURJENS en ANTJE > > Bron: > Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) > Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 > Inventarisnr.: 1 > Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar > > [Johan Juriens coming from Surhuisterveen married Anna Catharina Kipping > coming from Surhuisterveen, 19 May 1721.] > -------------------------- > > Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1723 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 22 februari 1723 > Man : Wilhelmus Knepper afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > Vrouw : Friene Bloem afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > > Gestandaardiseerde namen: WILLEM en VERENA > > Bron: > Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) > Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 > Inventarisnr.: 1 > Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar > > [Wilhelmus Knepper coming from Surhuisterveen married Friene Bloem coming > from Surhuisterveen, 22 Feb 1723.] > ----------------------------- > > Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1724 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 28 februari 1724 > Man : Jan Hendrix Kalckleser afkomstig van > Surhuisterveen > Vrouw : Anna Lys Layen afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > > Gestandaardiseerde namen: JAN HENDRIKS en ANTJE > > Bron: > Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) > Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 > Inventarisnr.: 1 > Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar > > [Jan Hendrix Kalckleser coming from Surhuisterveen married Anna Lys Layen > coming from Surhuisterveen, 28 Feb 1724.] > ------------------------------ > > Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1724 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 30 oktober 1724 > Man : Jacob Bosser afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > Vrouw : Susanna Keymen afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > > Gestandaardiseerde namen: JAKOB en SUSANNA > > Bron: > Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) > Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 > Inventarisnr.: 1 > Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar > > > [Jacob Bosser coming from Surhuisterveen married Susanna Keymen coming > from Surhuisterveen, 30 Oct 1724.] > ---------------------------- > > Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 26 februari 1725 > Man : Joannes Mack afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > Vrouw : Joanna Margarita Snederen afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > > Gestandaardiseerde namen: JOHANNES en JOHANNA > > Bron: > Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) > Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 > Inventarisnr.: 1 > Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar > > [Joannes Mack coming from Surhuisterveen married Joanna Margarita > Snederen coming from Surhuisterveen, 26 Feb 1725.] > -------------------------- > > Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 12 maart 1725 > Man : Johannes Lodewijck Beinum afkomstig van > Surhuisterveen > Vrouw : Anne Senebeecken afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > > Gestandaardiseerde namen: JOHANNES en ANTJE > > Bron: > Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) > Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 > Inventarisnr.: 1 > Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar > > [Johannes Lodewijck Beinum coming from Surhuisterveen married Anne > Senebeecken coming from Surhuisterveen, 12 Mar 1725.] > -------------------------- > > Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 12 november 1725 > Man : Christejaen Sneeder afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > Vrouw : Susanna Mackingh afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > > Gestandaardiseerde namen: CHRISTIAAN en SUSANNA > > Bron: > Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) > Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 > Inventarisnr.: 1 > Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar > > [Christejaen Sneeder coming from Surhuisterveen married Susanna Mackingh > coming from Surhuisterveen, 12 Nov 1725.] > ------------------------- > > Haskerland, huwelijken 1727 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 12 januari 1727 in Joure > Man : Auke Obbes afkomstig van Joure > Vrouw : Antje Bouwes afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > Opmerking : getrouwd te Joure > > Gestandaardiseerde namen: AUKE OBBES en ANTJE BOUWES > > Bron: > Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) > Trouwregister Hervormde gemeente Joure Westermeer Snikzwaag > 1637-1744 > Inventarisnr.: 360 > Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar > > [Auke Obbes coming from Joure married Antje Bouwes coming from > Surhuisterveen, 12 Jan 1727.] > --------------------------------- > > Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1728 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 3 mei 1728 > Man : Joannes Gondy afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > Vrouw : Aeltie Rickes afkomstig van Sapmeer > > Gestandaardiseerde namen: JOHANNES en AALTJE RIJKS > > Bron: > Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) > Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 > Inventarisnr.: 1 > Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar > > [Joannes Gondy coming from Surhuisterveen married Aeltie Rickes coming > from Sapmeer, 3 May 1728.] > ---------------------------- > > Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1728 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 6 december 1728 > Man : Christoffel Kalckleser afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > Vrouw : Maria Mackingh afkomstig van Surhuisterveen > > Gestandaardiseerde namen: CHRISTOFFEL en MARIA > > Bron: > Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) > Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 > Inventarisnr.: 1 > Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar > > [Christoffel Kalckleser coming from Surhuisterveen married Maria Mackingh > coming from Surhuisterveen, 6 Dec 1728.]