Thanks, Merle. That's so interesting. I also liked Gale's theory of amore! William R. Smith lived next door to John Fosher in Putnam County, IN, and Fosher was one of the first Universalists there. Last fall we drove through Fincastle, IN, and saw the Universalist church which was built there, I believe in the 1870s. Did you ever hear back from Emmert--you were trying to find out more information on Brethren Bonen and Wine--the two elders who heard the dispute and had Wm R. removed as pastor? Thanks. Janie --- Merle C Rummel <cliff@rtkonline.com> wrote: > Any theory as to why a Brethren would marry a > non-Brethren? Tobias > Miller was son of Jacob Miller. > Seems like it would have created a bit of a squabble > that he married a > Henderson girl whose father had slaves? > > > > Proximity - > > But another - the Brethren of the earlier times > (including Elder Jacob > Miller) were Pietists. They accepted faith in Jesus > as the > primary/often only consideration. It was called > "open meetings" - it > was really only AFTER the American Revolution, under > the influence of > the Anabaptist Mennonites, that the Annual Meeting > and the Elder's Body > went to "closed meetings" ("you had to be a > Brethren"). The Pietists > seem to be very evangelical, reaching out to all > their neighbors for > religious services, and the early Brethren were > this, and the Brethren > on the frontier were this. Worship services were > held in their home, > and they invited everyone around to come - even when > they were NOT > preachers - and the church grew -all these > non-german families are > suddenly "Brethren".. > > The Blackwater Chapel was just below the home of > Elder Jacob Miller, in > Franklin County VA - and Samuel Henderson lived very > close. All the > community seemed to have been part of that > congregation (at least, > several of the local families that married into the > Miller family did) - > and I really suspect that Elder Jacob preached > there. It is not now a > Brethren Church (at least, I don't remember seeing > anything like that > when I drove past there -some years ago), I don't > think it was > technically a "Brethren" Church back then. > > One strong Pietist tradition was Eternal Restoration > (Universalism) - > and Tobias Miller (son of Elder Jacob) moved to > LaPorte IN in 1833, as a > Universalist Preacher. The early LaPorte County > History says that he > was the first Universalist Preacher in the county. > > Pietism is what Elder William R Smith was censured > for at Raccoon Creek > (church taken from his care in c1830 -by elders from > Virginia [northern > valley of virginia] - which was an area of the > Annual Meeting > -Anabaptist tradition) - he still held to the > Pietist traditions, which > he received in the teaching of Elder Jacob Miller, > he held "open meetings". > > Janie, I cover a lot about this in my papers at: > <www.cob-net.org/docs/brethrenlife.htm> - Frontier > Brethren, Brethren > Pietism > > Merle C Rummel > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring > Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists > (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams > mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

amore - proximity - basically the same thing - I have some family stories about that, too, like my gr grandfather! John Fosher - Universalist? - where did you get that? - his father was Daniel Fosher, one of the Four Mile families - Whitewater meetinghouse - over by the Whitewater River, northwest of of Liberty IN, north of Brownsville -about 12 miles from the Upper Four Mile Church. (The early road from Dayton to John Conner's Trading Post [now Connersville IN] came through Boston [where I live] and went through Brownsville - we don't know where it cut across country! -but somewhere close to the Foshers.) I only had their Four Mile connection. John's sisters, Susannah, married Joseph Pagin (Frenchman -from Fort Kaskaskia IL), and Anna, married a William Stanton, and both went to LaPorte Co IN - where Tobias Miller went in 1833 and is named as the first Universalist Preacher (we had a considerable migration out of the Four Mile after the Cholera Epidemic of 1831-32), - now I better check to see if there is any information on their religious preference! Only one of Daniel's children remained here (Matthias - I've identified his residence over there at the Whitewater) -I didn't consider it before, but it was only a few miles from the Universalist Center at Philomath (Delaware Indian Road -where they published the "Western Star" - before they moved it down to Cincinnati). There is no Universalist Church around the Whitewater Church area, now. Emmert said that he was going to Florida, and wouldn't be responding to e-mails for a while - I now suspect that meant -during the winter! No one else has responded about the names - "Wine" was a Brethren Elder name - but I don't know which one, I do not recognize "Boenin" - c1830. Merle C Rummel > I also liked Gale's theory of amore! > > William R. Smith lived next door to John Fosher in > Putnam County, IN, and Fosher was one of the first > Universalists there. Last fall we drove through > Fincastle, IN, and saw the Universalist church which > was built there, I believe in the 1870s. > > Did you ever hear back from Emmert--you were trying to > find out more information on Brethren Bonen and > Wine--the two elders who heard the dispute and had Wm > R. removed as pastor?