A couple follow-up items on the subject discussion regarding Brethren pacifism and pietism. I went back and took a look at Durnbaugh's "Brethren in Colonial America". He talks about Brethren pacifism during the Revolutionary War, including Quaker, Mennonite and Moravian pacifism in general terms as opposed to personal specifics found in Sappington. I should note that Moravian's evolved out of pietism. He also has specifics in regard to the Annual Meeting dealing with the loyalty oath. He notes the petition by Mennonites and German Baptists to the Pennsylvania General Assembly in 1775 regarding their pacifist beliefs. He includes a draft law from North Carolina, dated 1778, that specifically dealt with the Moravians, Mennonites, Quakers and Dunkers. He also includes a letter written in 1784 by a John Frederick Reichel, a Moravian. Reichel said this: Pennsylvania is full of Quakers, also of various kinds of Baptists, and other denominations who hold that they dare not bear arms with a good conscience. All of these groups have remained true to their principles from the beginning until end. No Dunker, no Quaker took up arms." After the word Dunker Durnbaugh has in brackets "Taufer", which was the German word for an Anabaptist. This letter appears to be a translation (by Durnbuagh?) The letter specifically mentions the Mennonites, so the use of "Taufer" arguably applies to all the Anabaptists, which included the Amish and Brethren. The Moravian's, (a pietism denomination) were generally pacifist according to Durnbaugh, but there were exceptions. One other note. John Wesley who founded Methodism, another form of pietism, was greatly influenced by the Moravians. Wesley was not a pacifist and was both a loyal subject to King George III and supporter of the British cause. Bill Thomas