I would like the managers of this list to know that I am finding this discussion of the beginnings of Universalism MOST interesting. Please do NOT terminate this line anytime soon. This looks like it may lead to better understanding of my own family history. My father was born in Scotland and brought to America as a wee laddie. When he grew up, he rebelled against the Church of Scotland and became a Unitarian. Mother tagged along with this and I was raised Unitarian. Only later did I come to understand the differences in social attitudes separating Unitarians and Universalists. Then I realized that mother was really a Universalist. Her paternal ancestors left the Brethren Church about a generation after the events which Wayne is describing, when they were living in Champaign County, Ohio, only about 50 miles from his venue. I get to wonder if this squabble had anything to do with their departure. At 10:41 AM 7/7/08 -0400, Wayne Webb wrote: > In getting back to Samuel Bolton we discover that all of his children > were married by ministers of the New Light church. I believe that Merle > can comment on this far better than I but it is my understanding that > this is a Universalist church of English extraction. I also offer new > found insight into William Rose Smith who was a devotee of Elder Miller > while in Virginia but will let the readers of this writing discover this > on their own. > > > > In a nut shell we can now state with a certain accuracy that the > Virginia Conference of 1811 demonstrates an earlier ramification of the > same problems that would come to haunt the Far Western Brethren and which > has now become a portion of the history of the German Baptist church as a > whole. I believe we can state that Elder Miller was heavily influenced > by Elder Martin and his religious views. Elder Miller seems, possibly, > to also have a portion of the views of Ephrata through the teachings of > Elder Martin. Elder Miller is likely that Jacob Miller mentioned as > being baptised in the Conestoga church listings which also lists his > unnamed wife. The unknown parents of the five Miller brothers would, > logically, be one of the other Millers listed in the same set of early records. > > > > Elder Miller has as students Samuel Bolton and William Rose Smith, > both Englishers, who would figure into the early history of the church in > Indiana and Ohio. Samuel Bolton in the Miami Valley and Elder Smith in > Virginia and Indiana. One was removed from the church and the other > forgotten, either intentionally or by error. Elder Miller, because of > his Universalist and / or Pietist views differed in opinion from the > Annual Meeting Brethren in the guise of Elders Ulrich and Gripe thus > resulting in the dividing of the early churches in the Miami Valley of > Ohio via the Virginia Conference of Ohio. > > > > I apologize for the length of this email to my fellow members. I > also apologize for the poor writing skills. While this is a subject dear > to my heart the vocabulary of the writer is not quite up to the task. In > part this is because a portion of the material comes from documentation > and a portion from logic. There is a lot that is documented but there is > not a shred of documentation on the underpinnings of the reasons of the > Virginia Conference of 1811. Only the actions afterward taken. > > > > That being said if one was to read between the lines in the 1920 > Southern District of Ohio and compare it with those churches of Southern > Indiana that went either Disciples or Christian Church you will see a > similarity of surnames that is truly astounding. It is not common > knowledge but a near relative of Joseph Hochstetler (the boy preacher), > of whom Friend Merle has related interesting information, was Christian > Hochstetler. Christian moved from Shelby county, Kentucky into > Montgomery county, Ohio (likely in the northern portion) where he died in > 1814. A good sized portion of his family later moved into the Southern > Indiana region of which Merle has told us. > > > >Wayne Webb > > ------------------------ >Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) >For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

RE: "I am finding this discussion of the beginnings of Universalism MOST interesting." An over simplification of Universalism, is the belief that all mankind will eventually be in Heaven. However, Brethren were not Unitarian, they had a Trinitarian theology. On page 122 of Cooper's "Two Centuries of Brothersvalley Church of the Brethren" is a reprint of an article in an 1864 issue of the "Gospel Visitor" that summarizes some of the controversial theology of George Adam Martin, which includes Universalism. Sappington's "The Brethren in the New Nation" dedicates most of a chapter on Universalism in relation to the 19th Century Brethren. He also discusses Universalism in various parts of his book. Durnbaugh's "The Brethren in Colonial America" also dedicates a chapter on Universalism in relation to the 18th Century Brethren. Durnbaugh notes that Universalism was a mark of radical Pietism. He also notes that documents indicate Alexander Mack Sr. subscribed to some of the theology of Universalism, but wasn't a proponent of it. Bill Thomas