Thanks - I was not aware of the English complaint - I do think that David Martin is the son of George Adam Martin - - I would have real problems with David being of English origin my reasoning hinges a lot on the fact that he became such a leading Brethren Elder - seemingly early - at least by the time of the Revolution - - - 1754 to South Carolina (David - 17 years old) - 1759, minister of earliest church there (David - 22 years old) - - - 1770 ordained (by Nicholas Martin/Daniel Leatherman) - likely he knew and spoke German - even though much of the early church in the south is noted as having used considerable English - - most of the Brethren migration to the Carolinas (7th Day and 1st Day) was from Pennsylvania - German speaking, although capable in English - remember - this is only 40 some years after Alexander Mack brought the second shipload of Brethren to this Continent - - - - (well, migration to SC was c1750 - 20 years after Alexander Mack's shipload) - - so combine a move to the distant south - with a top leading position among those distant Brethren -almost requires someone of the early Brethren - - - I suspect that George Adam was involved in that earliest church in Newberry Co SC - and David being minister! - - and David's faith was that of the moderate Pietists - where George Adam was a major leader - - - David seems not to be a 7th Day Baptist, although he was seemingly much involved with the local Sabbatarians - David shows the same kind of capabilities as George Adam - broad acceptance/leadership among a number of church groups - then connecting the local names of George Jr/James/John/Elijah - presumed to also be sons of George Adam My problem still comes at the age of Mary (Knepper) Martin (b. c1725), and the birth of David (b. 1737) - Mary was about 12 years old!!! - and her parents were married c22 Feb 1723 - so her birth is approximately correct! could it be possible that George Adam Martin (b. 1712) had an earlier wife? per Floyd Mallott, Studies in Brethren History (includes - Ephrata Chronicle - George Adam Martin autobiography) George Adam Martin -was first minister at the Big Conewago Church - - - interest in religion - 1733 (21 years old) - - at Great Swamp Meeting -with Conrad Biessel - 1737 - - united as member at Conewago - 1735/- - ordained - 1739/- - elder - 1741 - - sent to Moravian Synod -as Brethren representative (by Elder Martin Urner) - 1742 (effort at union of German Churches - Count Zinzendorf -leader of Moravians) - - c1760 - Bermudian Church - York Co PA - - c1762 - Antietam Valley (vicinity of Snow Hill Cloisters) - - to Brothers Valley - 1763-4 nothing on date of deaconship - normally required before ordination customary - married before deaconship/certainly before ordination (I'm not sure of these customs back in those earliest days). David's birth date is OK - for records of George Adam Martin - I have a possible dozen children for George Adam (no good proof - few dates) Merle C Rummel >> - and as far as I know - we do not really have proof that David is a son >> of George Adam. >> > > I've given talks where I've mentioned David Martin, and when I do I say: > "the evidence points more toward David Martin being of English descent who > became associated with the Brethren; but the story that he was the son of > George Adam Martin is a much more compelling and interesting story - and since > the difference between the proof of the evidence is slight, I personally go > with the much more compelling story " (and then I go on to explain who GAM > was....) > > > the slight proof of his being English, is the complaint by some Brethren in > the circa 1770s (sorry for not including the actual complaint) of the > English taking over the Brethren in the western South Carolina; and a > non-documented listing of David Martin's parents (who wasn't GAM) in an early 20th century > Newberry book. > steven rowe >

Recall my comment from the other day of a David Martin and Jacob Martin on the 1776 non-enrollers listing for Frederick County, MD. Numerous Brethren are on the list with them including a Nicholas Leatherman. Durnbaugh includes Nicholas Leatherman as a signer of a document from the 1763 Annual Meeting along with Daniel Leatherman and Nicholas Martin (p. 266). Morgan Edwards includes Nicholas Martin as a Connecocheague, MD minister and Daniel Leatherman as a Monocacy, MD minister, circa 1770. Morgan also notes that Daniel Martin of S.C. was ordained by Daniel Leatherman and Nicholas Martin. Is it possible that Daniel Martin came to MD at some point, and it seems likely to me that Martin may have gone to MD to be ordained as opposed to Daniel Leatherman and Nicholas Martin going to SC. Durnbaugh also lists a David Martin Jr. in his index for the page he describes Rev. David Martin. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Merle C Rummel Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 8:46 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com; wildflours@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Martin Thanks - I was not aware of the English complaint - I do think that David Martin is the son of George Adam Martin - - I would have real problems with David being of English origin my reasoning hinges a lot on the fact that he became such a leading Brethren Elder - seemingly early - at least by the time of the Revolution - - - 1754 to South Carolina (David - 17 years old) - 1759, minister of earliest church there (David - 22 years old) - - - 1770 ordained (by Nicholas Martin/Daniel Leatherman) - likely he knew and spoke German - even though much of the early church in the south is noted as having used considerable English - - most of the Brethren migration to the Carolinas (7th Day and 1st Day) was from Pennsylvania - German speaking, although capable in English - remember - this is only 40 some years after Alexander Mack brought the second shipload of Brethren to this Continent - - - - (well, migration to SC was c1750 - 20 years after Alexander Mack's shipload) - - so combine a move to the distant south - with a top leading position among those distant Brethren -almost requires someone of the early Brethren - - - I suspect that George Adam was involved in that earliest church in Newberry Co SC - and David being minister! - - and David's faith was that of the moderate Pietists - where George Adam was a major leader - - - David seems not to be a 7th Day Baptist, although he was seemingly much involved with the local Sabbatarians - David shows the same kind of capabilities as George Adam - broad acceptance/leadership among a number of church groups - then connecting the local names of George Jr/James/John/Elijah - presumed to also be sons of George Adam My problem still comes at the age of Mary (Knepper) Martin (b. c1725), and the birth of David (b. 1737) - Mary was about 12 years old!!! - and her parents were married c22 Feb 1723 - so her birth is approximately correct! could it be possible that George Adam Martin (b. 1712) had an earlier wife? per Floyd Mallott, Studies in Brethren History (includes - Ephrata Chronicle - George Adam Martin autobiography) George Adam Martin -was first minister at the Big Conewago Church - - - interest in religion - 1733 (21 years old) - - at Great Swamp Meeting -with Conrad Biessel - 1737 - - united as member at Conewago - 1735/- - ordained - 1739/- - elder - 1741 - - sent to Moravian Synod -as Brethren representative (by Elder Martin Urner) - 1742 (effort at union of German Churches - Count Zinzendorf -leader of Moravians) - - c1760 - Bermudian Church - York Co PA - - c1762 - Antietam Valley (vicinity of Snow Hill Cloisters) - - to Brothers Valley - 1763-4 nothing on date of deaconship - normally required before ordination customary - married before deaconship/certainly before ordination (I'm not sure of these customs back in those earliest days). David's birth date is OK - for records of George Adam Martin - I have a possible dozen children for George Adam (no good proof - few dates) Merle C Rummel >> - and as far as I know - we do not really have proof that David is a son >> of George Adam. >> > > I've given talks where I've mentioned David Martin, and when I do I say: > "the evidence points more toward David Martin being of English descent who > became associated with the Brethren; but the story that he was the son of > George Adam Martin is a much more compelling and interesting story - and since > the difference between the proof of the evidence is slight, I personally go > with the much more compelling story " (and then I go on to explain who GAM > was....) > > > the slight proof of his being English, is the complaint by some Brethren in > the circa 1770s (sorry for not including the actual complaint) of the > English taking over the Brethren in the western South Carolina; and a > non-documented listing of David Martin's parents (who wasn't GAM) in an early 20th century > Newberry book. > steven rowe > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have the following children listed for Elder David Martin - with little more information - Catherine (m. Block), Hester (m. Colley), David, Deborah, Ruth, George, Solomon Samuel Merle C Rummel > Durnbaugh also lists a David Martin Jr. in his index for the page he > describes Rev. David Martin. >