Merle I have a question. Where do you get all this info on these families? I have wanted to find out more about my Jacob Peck family but do not know where to look I guess. They lived around the Kimmel family but I don't know what church they attended a much else other than when born and died. Could you tell me where to look? Del ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle C Rummel" <cliff@rtkonline.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] wives of Philip Kimmel (1756-1830) > I have been collecting from World Connect - so I cannot proof any of my > information - > > I have Phillip Kimmel (Jr) as born 23 Mar 1756 (York Co PA) and died 28 > Dec 1820 (McCracken Co KY - so my death year is wrong by 10 years > (thanks). I had that his father (Phillip Kimmel) moved to Somerset Co > PA, to the Stoney Creek Church, about 1764 (that was the year that > George Adam Martin moved there) - which would have made Phillip Jr only > 8 years old at the time. There was considerable information on the > Whiskey Rebellion, where Phillip Sr is historically recorded (1794) -and > that he ran a tavern in 1788 - all in Somerset/Bedford Co PA. There was > record that Philip Jr was baptized in the Lower Bermudian Church > (Reformed Congregational), York Co PA on the given birthdate - 23 Mar 1756. > > The information I collected indicated that Phillip Jr and family moved > to Westmoreland Co PA about 1789 (so there might be something for the > disagreement tradition - Westmoreland is not that far from Somerset), > and then about 1800 to the Green River in Kentucky, where he collected > salt as a business. > > Philip married first, Drucilla (sp) Penrod, daughter of John Penrod Jr > and Catherine Barrone. The first son, Phillip, was born about 1775 - so > marriage would have been a little before that. Drusilla/Drucilla was > born 1760 in Frederick Co MD - so it there is not much leaway before > that. I'm guessing that the first son was actually born in 1776 or 1777 > - and that the marriage was 1776, which would be possible -on the > frontier, even if not normal. Second child is Catherine, born 1779. > Yes, I have 9 children by her [Phillip -Catherine -Jane -Mariah -John > -Daniel -David -Benjamin -George W] (no children by any other > marriage). Drusilla died 1803 in Muhlenberg Co KY. (I accept that > these dates might be approximate.) The youngest son, George Washington > Kimmel married about 1815 and came to Montgomery Co OH where his wife, > Elizabeth, died. He remarried in 1822 to a Susan Smith, and the next > year, 1823, married an Elizabeth Christian in Darke Co OH. He died in > Union Co IL, where at least his brother, Daniel, was living. The other > children were in Indiana or remained in Kentucky. Son John was a > Baptist Preacher (which now always catches my attention - ), in 1810 he > was in Henderson Co KY, in 1820 in Union Co IL and in 1830 in Spencer Co > IN - at the Little Pigeon Baptist Church. > > Phillip married second, Rachel (Martin) Stump - 1 Feb 1801 (except I > think it would have been 1802, and possibly 1803). Francis Stump seems > to have died in September of 1801, his estate was brought to court in > October. As near as I can find - Rachel was born about 1765 (possibly > Mifflin Co PA - if she is the daughter of Everhard Martin) and died > about 1810 in Kentucky (possibly in McCracken Co -since Phillip's > marriage to Ann Hester is there). There are no children listed for > her. Only a few of the records that I saw, indicated that Rachel was > daughter of George Adam Martin, almost consistently they said: Everhard > Martin. I have not been able to find a daughter named Rachel for George > Adam Martin (except for this claim or tradition -that Rachel was > daughter of George Adam), and none of his children seem to have gone to > Kentucky, whereas several of Everhard Martin's children went to > Muhlenberg Co KY. > > Phillip married third, Ann Hester Lovelace, daughter of Elias Lovelace, > marriage: 7 Apr 1814 in McCracken Co KY. She died in 1830, McCracken Co. > > No, my big question is on the daughters of Rachel Martin Stump, and > Francis Stump (after all, he was the first ordained Brethren Minister to > Muhlenberg Co KY - I HAVE to include Him!) I suspect they are correctly > named - since Rachel had sisters by the same names (if daughter of > Everhard Martin) -those sisters did have the marriages attributed to > Rachel's daughters -two of the sisters did live in Muhlenberg Co KY: > [Gilbert Vaught came from Pennsylvania to Kentucky with Capt Henry > Rhoads in 1784 (wife Mary Martin - not Mary Stump), and John Vaught soon > followed him (wife Elizabeth Martin - not Elizabeth Stump). Anna > Barbara Martin married John Frampton Jr, and lived in Beaver Valley, > north of Pittsburg (not Barbara Stump and "a Frampton"). I had found > info in Muhlenberg Co KY on the Vaught/Vought families - I had found no > Framptons.] > > So my question is still - what do we know about the children of Rachel > and Francis Stump? (Yes, son Frederick was murdered - 1799 - possibly > only 12 years old.) Rachel's marriage to Francis Stump was about 1780 > (more probably after). She was born about 1765 - so that would make her > pretty young for marriage, and Frederick (eldest known child) was born > about 1787 - so there would either be missing older children, or > possibly a later marriage date. Dates of birth for the 3 daughters were > in the 1790s. The information given was that Francis was born about > 1756, Cumberland Co PA (does anyone have better data?). > > Merle C Rummel > > > Philip 1756 married Drusilla Penrod, a daughter of John Penrod, but I don't > > have a date for that. Given the number of children attributed to Drusilla, > > I would assume that the marriage occurred in Somerset Co. PA, since Philip is > > supposed to have moved to Kentucky about 1796. The rumor within the family > > is that he fell out with all the brothers after Philip 1724's death in 1796. > > Marie's record for Drusilla says she died in Kentucky about 1803 and says > > "date is approximate." We have nine children attributed to Drusilla, the > > last of them in 1793 in Pennsylvnia. > > > > Marie indicates a second marriage by Philip 1756 to Ann (maiden name not > > given) who had previously been married to a man named Lovelace, then to a Robert > > Hester, and lastly to Philip Kimmel. Schaefer's Kimmel genealogies give > > Drusilla Penrod as first wife, and "R Bear" as second, but doesn't have a YOD > > for Drusilla. > > > > Philip Kimmel's will was written December 29 1829 and filed for probate in > > McCracken County, KY, March 8, 1830. > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >
> Merle I have a question. Where do you get all this info on these families? I > have wanted to find out more about my Jacob Peck family but do not know > where to look I guess. They lived around the Kimmel family but I don't know > what church they attended a much else other than when born and died. Could > you tell me where to look? Del > I was doing it the hard way, checking family names on Google - then tracing them down with other informations I found all over (including Ft Wayne Library - have a daughter who lives there -and a lovely young granddaughter!) Gale Honeyman introduced me to World Connect - and there are usually a number of people who have been researching these names - tthat doesn't mean they are correct - just like I've been asking. When a person gives exact dates - it usually means that they have something nearly accurate. You can expect people to have copied other peoples files, so just finding the same data repeated doesn't mean anything. Sometimes its family names, sometimes its churches - sometimes its counties (I check county history files). Again, when I do get up to Ft Wayne - I have a list ready to see what cross referencing I can do. I do a close check on dates (you would be surprised how many people have a woman married and having a child before she is 14 or 15, sometimes even 10 yrs old - someone made a mistake, and others copied it -and didn't use their head). I've seen the Peck name - didn't pay it much attention. The Kentucky Kimmels lived in Muhlenberg Co - most of the Brethren (starting with the Rhoads family) settled on the Mud and Pond rivers. Sacramento, Bremen and Browder were places where these families lived, so the Kimmels likely lived somewhere close. The fact that Phillip Kimmel made salt, on the Green River, puts him north in Muhlenberg Co. The fact that Frederick Stump, son of the minister, Francis Stump, was murdered while fishing in the Green River, also puts them north.. I don't have a real source about townships -sometimes they are give. These early Brethren seldom build a church building. It was customary to meet in homes of the members. Sometimes certain families usually had the meeting, because they had a house big enough for the whole church. I'm checking earliest churches (especially Baptist or Disciples) -which include the name of a river or creek - because these often began as Baptist Brethren. When possible, I get early membership lists - and find some of the families included (down a couple generations). I must admit, I have built up a collection of persons and families - a lot of it from information you all have given on the Brethren List - over the past 5-6 years. And I've gone back to the List Archives. These give me leads to check, for places and families. I have not gone to many of your family web-pages - but Google did have some of them included in what I viewed. Merle
Del and Carol, regarding Jacob Peck. (Sorry if you already know this). There is a short section relating to George, Jacob, Henry, and John Adam Peck Peck Allegheny Passage pages 455, and 659. E. Bittinger ----- Original Message ----- From: "Del & Carol" <delcarol@iezpc.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] wives of Philip Kimmel (1756-1830) > Merle I have a question. Where do you get all this info on these families? > I > have wanted to find out more about my Jacob Peck family but do not know > where to look I guess. They lived around the Kimmel family but I don't > know > what church they attended a much else other than when born and died. Could > you tell me where to look? Del > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Merle C Rummel" <cliff@rtkonline.com> > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:44 PM > Subject: Re: [BRE] wives of Philip Kimmel (1756-1830) > > >> I have been collecting from World Connect - so I cannot proof any of my >> information - >> >> I have Phillip Kimmel (Jr) as born 23 Mar 1756 (York Co PA) and died 28 >> Dec 1820 (McCracken Co KY - so my death year is wrong by 10 years >> (thanks). I had that his father (Phillip Kimmel) moved to Somerset Co >> PA, to the Stoney Creek Church, about 1764 (that was the year that >> George Adam Martin moved there) - which would have made Phillip Jr only >> 8 years old at the time. There was considerable information on the >> Whiskey Rebellion, where Phillip Sr is historically recorded (1794) -and >> that he ran a tavern in 1788 - all in Somerset/Bedford Co PA. There was >> record that Philip Jr was baptized in the Lower Bermudian Church >> (Reformed Congregational), York Co PA on the given birthdate - 23 Mar > 1756. >> >> The information I collected indicated that Phillip Jr and family moved >> to Westmoreland Co PA about 1789 (so there might be something for the >> disagreement tradition - Westmoreland is not that far from Somerset), >> and then about 1800 to the Green River in Kentucky, where he collected >> salt as a business. >> >> Philip married first, Drucilla (sp) Penrod, daughter of John Penrod Jr >> and Catherine Barrone. The first son, Phillip, was born about 1775 - so >> marriage would have been a little before that. Drusilla/Drucilla was >> born 1760 in Frederick Co MD - so it there is not much leaway before >> that. I'm guessing that the first son was actually born in 1776 or 1777 >> - and that the marriage was 1776, which would be possible -on the >> frontier, even if not normal. Second child is Catherine, born 1779. >> Yes, I have 9 children by her [Phillip -Catherine -Jane -Mariah -John >> -Daniel -David -Benjamin -George W] (no children by any other >> marriage). Drusilla died 1803 in Muhlenberg Co KY. (I accept that >> these dates might be approximate.) The youngest son, George Washington >> Kimmel married about 1815 and came to Montgomery Co OH where his wife, >> Elizabeth, died. He remarried in 1822 to a Susan Smith, and the next >> year, 1823, married an Elizabeth Christian in Darke Co OH. He died in >> Union Co IL, where at least his brother, Daniel, was living. The other >> children were in Indiana or remained in Kentucky. Son John was a >> Baptist Preacher (which now always catches my attention - ), in 1810 he >> was in Henderson Co KY, in 1820 in Union Co IL and in 1830 in Spencer Co >> IN - at the Little Pigeon Baptist Church. >> >> Phillip married second, Rachel (Martin) Stump - 1 Feb 1801 (except I >> think it would have been 1802, and possibly 1803). Francis Stump seems >> to have died in September of 1801, his estate was brought to court in >> October. As near as I can find - Rachel was born about 1765 (possibly >> Mifflin Co PA - if she is the daughter of Everhard Martin) and died >> about 1810 in Kentucky (possibly in McCracken Co -since Phillip's >> marriage to Ann Hester is there). There are no children listed for >> her. Only a few of the records that I saw, indicated that Rachel was >> daughter of George Adam Martin, almost consistently they said: Everhard >> Martin. I have not been able to find a daughter named Rachel for George >> Adam Martin (except for this claim or tradition -that Rachel was >> daughter of George Adam), and none of his children seem to have gone to >> Kentucky, whereas several of Everhard Martin's children went to >> Muhlenberg Co KY. >> >> Phillip married third, Ann Hester Lovelace, daughter of Elias Lovelace, >> marriage: 7 Apr 1814 in McCracken Co KY. She died in 1830, McCracken Co. >> >> No, my big question is on the daughters of Rachel Martin Stump, and >> Francis Stump (after all, he was the first ordained Brethren Minister to >> Muhlenberg Co KY - I HAVE to include Him!) I suspect they are correctly >> named - since Rachel had sisters by the same names (if daughter of >> Everhard Martin) -those sisters did have the marriages attributed to >> Rachel's daughters -two of the sisters did live in Muhlenberg Co KY: >> [Gilbert Vaught came from Pennsylvania to Kentucky with Capt Henry >> Rhoads in 1784 (wife Mary Martin - not Mary Stump), and John Vaught soon >> followed him (wife Elizabeth Martin - not Elizabeth Stump). Anna >> Barbara Martin married John Frampton Jr, and lived in Beaver Valley, >> north of Pittsburg (not Barbara Stump and "a Frampton"). I had found >> info in Muhlenberg Co KY on the Vaught/Vought families - I had found no >> Framptons.] >> >> So my question is still - what do we know about the children of Rachel >> and Francis Stump? (Yes, son Frederick was murdered - 1799 - possibly >> only 12 years old.) Rachel's marriage to Francis Stump was about 1780 >> (more probably after). She was born about 1765 - so that would make her >> pretty young for marriage, and Frederick (eldest known child) was born >> about 1787 - so there would either be missing older children, or >> possibly a later marriage date. Dates of birth for the 3 daughters were >> in the 1790s. The information given was that Francis was born about >> 1756, Cumberland Co PA (does anyone have better data?). >> >> Merle C Rummel >> >> > Philip 1756 married Drusilla Penrod, a daughter of John Penrod, but I > don't >> > have a date for that. Given the number of children attributed to > Drusilla, >> > I would assume that the marriage occurred in Somerset Co. PA, since > Philip is >> > supposed to have moved to Kentucky about 1796. The rumor within the > family >> > is that he fell out with all the brothers after Philip 1724's death in > 1796. >> > Marie's record for Drusilla says she died in Kentucky about 1803 and > says >> > "date is approximate." We have nine children attributed to Drusilla, > the >> > last of them in 1793 in Pennsylvnia. >> > >> > Marie indicates a second marriage by Philip 1756 to Ann (maiden name >> > not >> > given) who had previously been married to a man named Lovelace, then to > a Robert >> > Hester, and lastly to Philip Kimmel. Schaefer's Kimmel genealogies >> > give >> > Drusilla Penrod as first wife, and "R Bear" as second, but doesn't have > a YOD >> > for Drusilla. >> > >> > Philip Kimmel's will was written December 29 1829 and filed for probate > in >> > McCracken County, KY, March 8, 1830. >> > >> >> >> ------------------------ >> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >> ------------------------ >> Support Our Sponsoring Agency >> The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) >> For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com >> ------------------------ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message