Merle: I have some additional information, and other info you probably know, but I'll add it for the list's benefit. I wanted to first note that I found a Jacob and David Martin in the 1776 Frederick County, Maryland non-enroller listing. This implies a pacifist orientation, but I don't know of what connection they have to George Adam Martin or Rachel. A number of early Brethren moved from Maryland to Pennsylvania. Cooper also refers to James Martin being in the militia in 1774 (son of George Adam) in Somerset County. Cooper includes Philip Kimmel as an original member of Stony Creek based on a very old membership list he had seen. Cooper lists Jacob, George and Philip Kimmel as early landholders in Somerset County. He notes that the property of George was adjacent that of George Adam Martin. The Peter Livengood Journal includes a 1796 reference to George Kimmel and a 1772 reference to Jacob Kimmel. Morgan Edwards lists Philip Kimmel as an original member of the Stony Creek Congregation. Cooper also refers to Elder C. G. Lint's list of forty members, and includes Jonathan Kimmel son of Jacob Kimmel and Maria Hoffman Kimmel. Cooper's list of Stony Creek Elders includes Philip Kimmel noting he left in 1794. I also saw that Cooper lists early members in Kentucky, where he includes a John and Adam Stum, noting in brackets this is Stump. There is a Stom family found in Somerset County, including a John Stom of George Township, Fayette County who sold Somerset County property in 1796 on the Milford and Turkeyfoot Township line, and notes neighbors Jacob and Henry Zook (Zug). A Henry Stamm has a 1792 warrant in present day Greenville Township, Somerset County. The Zug connection implies this may be Stump, but I'm not sure Stom/Stamm is really Stump, or that Stom and Stamm are the same either. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Merle C Rummel Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:44 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] wives of Philip Kimmel (1756-1830) I have been collecting from World Connect - so I cannot proof any of my information - I have Phillip Kimmel (Jr) as born 23 Mar 1756 (York Co PA) and died 28 Dec 1820 (McCracken Co KY - so my death year is wrong by 10 years (thanks). I had that his father (Phillip Kimmel) moved to Somerset Co PA, to the Stoney Creek Church, about 1764 (that was the year that George Adam Martin moved there) - which would have made Phillip Jr only 8 years old at the time. There was considerable information on the Whiskey Rebellion, where Phillip Sr is historically recorded (1794) -and that he ran a tavern in 1788 - all in Somerset/Bedford Co PA. There was record that Philip Jr was baptized in the Lower Bermudian Church (Reformed Congregational), York Co PA on the given birthdate - 23 Mar 1756. The information I collected indicated that Phillip Jr and family moved to Westmoreland Co PA about 1789 (so there might be something for the disagreement tradition - Westmoreland is not that far from Somerset), and then about 1800 to the Green River in Kentucky, where he collected salt as a business. Philip married first, Drucilla (sp) Penrod, daughter of John Penrod Jr and Catherine Barrone. The first son, Phillip, was born about 1775 - so marriage would have been a little before that. Drusilla/Drucilla was born 1760 in Frederick Co MD - so it there is not much leaway before that. I'm guessing that the first son was actually born in 1776 or 1777 - and that the marriage was 1776, which would be possible -on the frontier, even if not normal. Second child is Catherine, born 1779. Yes, I have 9 children by her [Phillip -Catherine -Jane -Mariah -John -Daniel -David -Benjamin -George W] (no children by any other marriage). Drusilla died 1803 in Muhlenberg Co KY. (I accept that these dates might be approximate.) The youngest son, George Washington Kimmel married about 1815 and came to Montgomery Co OH where his wife, Elizabeth, died. He remarried in 1822 to a Susan Smith, and the next year, 1823, married an Elizabeth Christian in Darke Co OH. He died in Union Co IL, where at least his brother, Daniel, was living. The other children were in Indiana or remained in Kentucky. Son John was a Baptist Preacher (which now always catches my attention - ), in 1810 he was in Henderson Co KY, in 1820 in Union Co IL and in 1830 in Spencer Co IN - at the Little Pigeon Baptist Church. Phillip married second, Rachel (Martin) Stump - 1 Feb 1801 (except I think it would have been 1802, and possibly 1803). Francis Stump seems to have died in September of 1801, his estate was brought to court in October. As near as I can find - Rachel was born about 1765 (possibly Mifflin Co PA - if she is the daughter of Everhard Martin) and died about 1810 in Kentucky (possibly in McCracken Co -since Phillip's marriage to Ann Hester is there). There are no children listed for her. Only a few of the records that I saw, indicated that Rachel was daughter of George Adam Martin, almost consistently they said: Everhard Martin. I have not been able to find a daughter named Rachel for George Adam Martin (except for this claim or tradition -that Rachel was daughter of George Adam), and none of his children seem to have gone to Kentucky, whereas several of Everhard Martin's children went to Muhlenberg Co KY. Phillip married third, Ann Hester Lovelace, daughter of Elias Lovelace, marriage: 7 Apr 1814 in McCracken Co KY. She died in 1830, McCracken Co. No, my big question is on the daughters of Rachel Martin Stump, and Francis Stump (after all, he was the first ordained Brethren Minister to Muhlenberg Co KY - I HAVE to include Him!) I suspect they are correctly named - since Rachel had sisters by the same names (if daughter of Everhard Martin) -those sisters did have the marriages attributed to Rachel's daughters -two of the sisters did live in Muhlenberg Co KY: [Gilbert Vaught came from Pennsylvania to Kentucky with Capt Henry Rhoads in 1784 (wife Mary Martin - not Mary Stump), and John Vaught soon followed him (wife Elizabeth Martin - not Elizabeth Stump). Anna Barbara Martin married John Frampton Jr, and lived in Beaver Valley, north of Pittsburg (not Barbara Stump and "a Frampton"). I had found info in Muhlenberg Co KY on the Vaught/Vought families - I had found no Framptons.] So my question is still - what do we know about the children of Rachel and Francis Stump? (Yes, son Frederick was murdered - 1799 - possibly only 12 years old.) Rachel's marriage to Francis Stump was about 1780 (more probably after). She was born about 1765 - so that would make her pretty young for marriage, and Frederick (eldest known child) was born about 1787 - so there would either be missing older children, or possibly a later marriage date. Dates of birth for the 3 daughters were in the 1790s. The information given was that Francis was born about 1756, Cumberland Co PA (does anyone have better data?). Merle C Rummel > Philip 1756 married Drusilla Penrod, a daughter of John Penrod, but I don't > have a date for that. Given the number of children attributed to Drusilla, > I would assume that the marriage occurred in Somerset Co. PA, since Philip is > supposed to have moved to Kentucky about 1796. The rumor within the family > is that he fell out with all the brothers after Philip 1724's death in 1796. > Marie's record for Drusilla says she died in Kentucky about 1803 and says > "date is approximate." We have nine children attributed to Drusilla, the > last of them in 1793 in Pennsylvnia. > > Marie indicates a second marriage by Philip 1756 to Ann (maiden name not > given) who had previously been married to a man named Lovelace, then to a Robert > Hester, and lastly to Philip Kimmel. Schaefer's Kimmel genealogies give > Drusilla Penrod as first wife, and "R Bear" as second, but doesn't have a YOD > for Drusilla. > > Philip Kimmel's will was written December 29 1829 and filed for probate in > McCracken County, KY, March 8, 1830. > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message