Hi Merle, here I am again - throwing my offering into the "mess" of Stump early Brethren. #1. Is the message about Franz Stump entering a theory that he is THE Francis Stump, or either the son, brother or nephew? Or is Franz just a new entry in the pile of questions????? #2. This may be my penultimate e-mail to you referring to trying to find the names and numbers of families who left Muhlenberg Co. KY and emigrated to Clarke and Edgar Counties, Ill. as a body (or group) during the period 1820 to about 1825-30. #3 Have you ever had contact with the John Vought (Vaught) Family Assn.? On the net maintained by mvyoung@shawneelink.com. In an old Archives Ref/ from LDS Library in Salt Lake City Vaught mentioned "probably 100 families first Brethren Settlers in Muhlenberg Co. KY." The Vaught assn material takes info from Chapter 11 of "Two Centuries of Brothers Valley." would it be worthwhile to try and find this Article? Some of these notes seem to have been duplicated and I am not sure if I have sent them to you or not - hope you won't mind - if I consider them interesting and perhaps helpful I do want to get them to you. 1683 Germans to Germantown - Phila. 1714 German redemptioners sent to Falls of Rappahannock and became Colony of Germanna. 1732 Justus Hite (German) led group from Hork PA to Wincheser, Va. More possible names Hite, Solomon Rhoades solemnized marriage of Jacob Rhoades (perhaps son of Daniel) to Eliz. Ripple in Muhlenberg Co. KY. 1809 bu date is questionable - from Marriage Records Bk 1 Muhlenberg Co. Eliz. Ripple Rhoads born 27 Oct. 1788 Northampton PA died 29 Sept. 1862 buried Ogden Cemetery, Edgar Co. Ill. Rhoades (Roth) and Willis surnames - to me - have not connected to Brethren. Then when I find some of my husband's Francis' line marrying one of those names, I tend to think they would have been among those moving up to Illinois. David Washabaugh Stump was one of them who bought several pieces of land in Edgar County, IL in 1830s and apparently died in Edgar County in the 1840s. But, so far, no death or burial record. The William McClay Chapter, Sons of Revo. published "Susquanna Tales" in 1955 ref. Penna. beginning with 1668 in which "hunsicker is mentioned several times - never a given name, but during the period between 1700 and 1769 - when Francis Stump seemed to be in Penna., going via VA and on into KY. In Annals of Buffalo Valley - Conrad Weiser is called "German Counterpart of William Penn. Was William Penn a Brethren? Half a page of handwritten notes "The Ky. migration 1785 og 202 & 203 Oeter Becker, settled in Logan Co. - John & Eliz. Vaught Logan Co.; David Rhoads brother of former "Capt. Henry: Abraham Vaught mar. Eliza Bell 1808 dau. of William (Wm. Bell guardian to David Washabaugh) in KY ;; Polly Vaught mar. Adam Hunsacker - more, but has been drawn through . Many of such notes, I cannot recognize the handwriting. However, some of the facts I find in letters from Researchers my husband had paid. In the middle of some of the Sims Cemetery, records of Edgar Co. IL - relatives of David Washabaugh Stump buried there - with a question mark. I realize I've jumped back and forth on this. But --- Two pages of "History of Somerset County", PA - more names of Washabaughs, Millers, Penrods ---Francis Stump there in Elk Lick Twp from 1783-1799 - he sold his farm there and moved to Fayette Co. PA. then 1801 he died in Muhlenberg Co. KY - that man sure did travel - providing the dates he was in all these places are correct. But if there were Brethren groups there and in Ayr and Tod Twps. PA perhaps there are some records The Hebron congregation of the Reformed Church - Jacob Share organized it and Mary A. Washabaugh was an early member. "The old Dunkards, without any prefix or affix to their name are also represented in Ayr by a few families. This sect eschews church buildings and worhips in houses and barns, some of the brethren being selected from time to time to conduct divine services. They are a very devout , conscientious, Christian people. I write all this thinking you may know things that will fit some of these facts I've copied and one thing will lead to another. I do think I've told you that I feel - after all this reading - that the Stump descendants left the Brethren group in Clarke and Edgar Counties, Ill and have always thereafter been Methodist. Such is my hope. Best ever to you and your book. Liz Stump ----- Original Message ---- From: Merle C Rummel <cliff@rtkonline.com> To: brethren@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:30:31 AM Subject: Re: [BRE] Francis Stump item Let me throw another theory into the mess from Berks County to Somerset County - in those years Elder George Adam Miller - while he moved first to the Antietam before going on to Brother's Valley - was originally from the general area including Berks -and we find a number of those who moved to Somerset were of his Pietistic frame of belief. (The Stony Creek Church had recorded problems between the Brethren and the Sabbatarians -those holding more to the Ephrata beliefs.) One of the pietist concepts was that of celibacy - "living with" was used in several of the statements about pietists practicing celibacy - when a couple men were living together as celibates. Again - ages are not given -but could we be seeing here a couple men holding to pietistic celibacy - living together? That doesn't mean that it continued forever - but for that period of time - and - at least with Elder Jacob Miller (who was in Brother's Valley from 1764-1766) the "living with" (Harshbarger Letter - in the Miami Valley in Ohio) seems to possibly be a "living nearby" - "living nextdoor" - "taking care of each other"!! Merle C Rummel > >> I thought I would pass this tidbit of information along regarding Francis >> Stump. It is from the Journal of Peter Liebundgutt (Livengood), a notable >> German Baptist from Somerset County. Peter was likely Amish prior to >> this, >> since a number of his children married into Amish families, and he >> emigrated >> from Berks County to Somerset County with a group of Amish. >> >> >> >> The entry is dated August 20, 1783, and the info of interest is this: "we >> have loaned John Miller money for keeping Frantz Stump namely". >> >> >> >> John Miller is likely my ancestor "Wounded" John Miller, who was Amish and >> sold his farm in Elk Lick Township to Peter Livengood about 1786. John >> emigrated from Berks County at about the same time as Peter Livengood. >> The >> implication of the journal entry is that Frantz was living with John >> Miller. >> That would imply that Frantz was young, and possibly an orphan. The >> interesting question is why would John borrow the money, and why would >> Peter >> lend it? >> >> >> >> I have noted in the past of property records from a decade earlier for a >> John Stump, who owned property adjacent the Rhoads family in the Glades >> area, which is some miles north of the original Miller property. >> Property >> maps of Somerset County show Francis had warranted property in 1785 very >> close to Peter Livengood in current Elk Lick Township. A neighbor of >> Peter >> was Michael Beeghley. On the other side of the Beeghley property was a >> John >> Stump. The maps also show Francis Stump and Christian Schrock owning >> property together in 1786 next to Henry Rhoads in current Summit Township >> (near Meyersdale). Christian Schrock was Amish, and his brother John >> married a daughter of John Miller. >> >> >> >> Bill Thomas >> >> >> ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message