Knowing nothing on this subject other than what I have read here...did the journal specifically state this was a child? Could it not be that they were caring for an elderly man? One whose family wasn't nearby? Mary Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Rogers" <rogers922@intrstar.net> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Francis Stump item > The > interesting question is why would John borrow the money, and why would Peter > lend it? > > Since I know nothing of this time frame or the habits of those in this time, > it did strike me though, if this child was indeed an orphan, that depending > upon his age, maybe someone was helping the orphan acquire needed tools for > an apprenticeship? Maybe to purchase a mule or a horse as transportation to > get to said apprenticeship? Would they have sent this orphan to a boarding > school and needed funds for this purpose? (I strike that, I don't think an > amish lad would be headed to a boarding school, not even for religious > reasons)... > > Is there nothing in the Orphan Court records that could give light to this? > Was Livengood and Miller feel responsible for this child through > relationship of Uncle (maybe the brother of the mother) - > > But you are correct, that one line can sure generate a whole bunch of > questions. > > Many Blessings, > Janet Rogers > North Carolina > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Thomas" <wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 8:57 PM > Subject: [BRE] Francis Stump item > > > >I thought I would pass this tidbit of information along regarding Francis > > Stump. It is from the Journal of Peter Liebundgutt (Livengood), a notable > > German Baptist from Somerset County. Peter was likely Amish prior to > > this, > > since a number of his children married into Amish families, and he > > emigrated > > from Berks County to Somerset County with a group of Amish. > > > > > > > > The entry is dated August 20, 1783, and the info of interest is this: "we > > have loaned John Miller money for keeping Frantz Stump namely". > > > > > > > > John Miller is likely my ancestor "Wounded" John Miller, who was Amish and > > sold his farm in Elk Lick Township to Peter Livengood about 1786. John > > emigrated from Berks County at about the same time as Peter Livengood. > > The > > implication of the journal entry is that Frantz was living with John > > Miller. > > That would imply that Frantz was young, and possibly an orphan. The > > interesting question is why would John borrow the money, and why would > > Peter > > lend it? > > > > > > > > I have noted in the past of property records from a decade earlier for a > > John Stump, who owned property adjacent the Rhoads family in the Glades > > area, which is some miles north of the original Miller property. > > Property > > maps of Somerset County show Francis had warranted property in 1785 very > > close to Peter Livengood in current Elk Lick Township. A neighbor of > > Peter > > was Michael Beeghley. On the other side of the Beeghley property was a > > John > > Stump. The maps also show Francis Stump and Christian Schrock owning > > property together in 1786 next to Henry Rhoads in current Summit Township > > (near Meyersdale). Christian Schrock was Amish, and his brother John > > married a daughter of John Miller. > > > > > > > > Bill Thomas > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > > ------------------------ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/2008 > > 1:41 PM > > > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Also this could apply to a blind person (as in my Bechtel family in Somerset County) or a mentally handicapped person (as in my Shaffer family, also in Somerset County). Possibly money was borrowed with the knowledge that monies from an estate would become available as in the case of a minor child with a guardian, if the estate had not yet been settled. And it took a long time to settle estates in that mountain country in those days. Just some thoughts. John Shafer > From: lbooher6@woh.rr.com > To: brethren@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:19:32 -0500 > Subject: Re: [BRE] Francis Stump item > > Knowing nothing on this subject other than what I have read here...did the > journal specifically state this was a child? > > Could it not be that they were caring for an elderly man? One whose family > wasn't nearby? > > Mary Ann > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet Rogers" <rogers922@intrstar.net> > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 8:04 PM > Subject: Re: [BRE] Francis Stump item > > > > The > > interesting question is why would John borrow the money, and why would > Peter > > lend it? > > > > Since I know nothing of this time frame or the habits of those in this > time, > > it did strike me though, if this child was indeed an orphan, that > depending > > upon his age, maybe someone was helping the orphan acquire needed tools > for > > an apprenticeship? Maybe to purchase a mule or a horse as transportation > to > > get to said apprenticeship? Would they have sent this orphan to a boarding > > school and needed funds for this purpose? (I strike that, I don't think an > > amish lad would be headed to a boarding school, not even for religious > > reasons)... > > > > Is there nothing in the Orphan Court records that could give light to > this? > > Was Livengood and Miller feel responsible for this child through > > relationship of Uncle (maybe the brother of the mother) - > > > > But you are correct, that one line can sure generate a whole bunch of > > questions. > > > > Many Blessings, > > Janet Rogers > > North Carolina > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Thomas" <wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> > > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 8:57 PM > > Subject: [BRE] Francis Stump item > > > > > > >I thought I would pass this tidbit of information along regarding Francis > > > Stump. It is from the Journal of Peter Liebundgutt (Livengood), a > notable > > > German Baptist from Somerset County. Peter was likely Amish prior to > > > this, > > > since a number of his children married into Amish families, and he > > > emigrated > > > from Berks County to Somerset County with a group of Amish. > > > > > > > > > > > > The entry is dated August 20, 1783, and the info of interest is this: > "we > > > have loaned John Miller money for keeping Frantz Stump namely". > > > > > > > > > > > > John Miller is likely my ancestor "Wounded" John Miller, who was Amish > and > > > sold his farm in Elk Lick Township to Peter Livengood about 1786. John > > > emigrated from Berks County at about the same time as Peter Livengood. > > > The > > > implication of the journal entry is that Frantz was living with John > > > Miller. > > > That would imply that Frantz was young, and possibly an orphan. The > > > interesting question is why would John borrow the money, and why would > > > Peter > > > lend it? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have noted in the past of property records from a decade earlier for a > > > John Stump, who owned property adjacent the Rhoads family in the Glades > > > area, which is some miles north of the original Miller property. > > > Property > > > maps of Somerset County show Francis had warranted property in 1785 very > > > close to Peter Livengood in current Elk Lick Township. A neighbor of > > > Peter > > > was Michael Beeghley. On the other side of the Beeghley property was a > > > John > > > Stump. The maps also show Francis Stump and Christian Schrock owning > > > property together in 1786 next to Henry Rhoads in current Summit > Township > > > (near Meyersdale). Christian Schrock was Amish, and his brother John > > > married a daughter of John Miller. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Thomas > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > > ------------------------ > > > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > > > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > > > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: > 3/11/2008 > > > 1:41 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > > ------------------------ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join

This is Francis Stump who became a Brethren Elder and moved to Kentucky. -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mary Ann Booher Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:20 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Francis Stump item Knowing nothing on this subject other than what I have read here...did the journal specifically state this was a child? Could it not be that they were caring for an elderly man? One whose family wasn't nearby? Mary Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Rogers" <rogers922@intrstar.net> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Francis Stump item > The > interesting question is why would John borrow the money, and why would Peter > lend it? > > Since I know nothing of this time frame or the habits of those in this time, > it did strike me though, if this child was indeed an orphan, that depending > upon his age, maybe someone was helping the orphan acquire needed tools for > an apprenticeship? Maybe to purchase a mule or a horse as transportation to > get to said apprenticeship? Would they have sent this orphan to a boarding > school and needed funds for this purpose? (I strike that, I don't think an > amish lad would be headed to a boarding school, not even for religious > reasons)... > > Is there nothing in the Orphan Court records that could give light to this? > Was Livengood and Miller feel responsible for this child through > relationship of Uncle (maybe the brother of the mother) - > > But you are correct, that one line can sure generate a whole bunch of > questions. > > Many Blessings, > Janet Rogers > North Carolina > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Thomas" <wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 8:57 PM > Subject: [BRE] Francis Stump item > > > >I thought I would pass this tidbit of information along regarding Francis > > Stump. It is from the Journal of Peter Liebundgutt (Livengood), a notable > > German Baptist from Somerset County. Peter was likely Amish prior to > > this, > > since a number of his children married into Amish families, and he > > emigrated > > from Berks County to Somerset County with a group of Amish. > > > > > > > > The entry is dated August 20, 1783, and the info of interest is this: "we > > have loaned John Miller money for keeping Frantz Stump namely". > > > > > > > > John Miller is likely my ancestor "Wounded" John Miller, who was Amish and > > sold his farm in Elk Lick Township to Peter Livengood about 1786. John > > emigrated from Berks County at about the same time as Peter Livengood. > > The > > implication of the journal entry is that Frantz was living with John > > Miller. > > That would imply that Frantz was young, and possibly an orphan. The > > interesting question is why would John borrow the money, and why would > > Peter > > lend it? > > > > > > > > I have noted in the past of property records from a decade earlier for a > > John Stump, who owned property adjacent the Rhoads family in the Glades > > area, which is some miles north of the original Miller property. > > Property > > maps of Somerset County show Francis had warranted property in 1785 very > > close to Peter Livengood in current Elk Lick Township. A neighbor of > > Peter > > was Michael Beeghley. On the other side of the Beeghley property was a > > John > > Stump. The maps also show Francis Stump and Christian Schrock owning > > property together in 1786 next to Henry Rhoads in current Summit Township > > (near Meyersdale). Christian Schrock was Amish, and his brother John > > married a daughter of John Miller. > > > > > > > > Bill Thomas > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > > ------------------------ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/2008 > > 1:41 PM > > > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message