Dwayne: Thanks for the information. I did find several Orphan Court Records for Baltzer Frantz (two). Based on that information, and an obituary of one of his son's named George Adam Frantz from Elizabeth Township, I believe the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is the son of Baltzar. I should also point out that a 6/10/1755 Orphan court record for Baltzar also lists a daughter Anna Maria Frantz, who is named as the wife of Michael Frantz. Based on your 2006 MFH article on the Frantz family that would appear to be Michael the s/o Christian I. The Orphan Court records are from a book of Lancaster County Orphan Court abstracts (1742-1767). If so, that would make them first cousins. What concerns me is the previous Orphan Court record is dated 3/5/1755. In this record, Elizabeth is listed as a minor child but above age 14. In the June record, it lists her husband. So she was both a minor child and married....not sure if that makes sense or not. It may be due to a poor quality transcription of the actual record. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Bill, Now I suspect that I need to make another correction. I'm unsure about the generations of the successive Hans/John Frantz men. One of them married a Hostetter, but I'm not at all confident it was the one who died in 1787, so please don't put much stock into the details of what I wrote below. However, I will stick with my basic contention that the John Frantz of Manor Township was a descendant of Hans Frantz who immigrated in 1717. Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I suspect that I need to make a correction in what I wrote in the message below. The John Frantz of Manor who married Elizabeth Hostetter and died in 1787, may have been the son of the John Frantz of Manor who died in 1767, who in turn may have been the son of the 1717 immigrant Hans Frantz (death date unknown, but probably very early on). So I think I left out a generation. Also I forgot to say that the John Frantz who died in 1787 was the father of Christian Frantz who was a well known Mennonite minister in Lancaster County. Dwayne Wrightsman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Bill, If I were just making a guess, it would be that you have two different John Frantz men. I think the John Frantz (died 1787) of Manor Township was a Mennonite who was married to Elizabeth Hostetter. and who had a brother named Jacob who also married a Hostetter. John and Jacob were probably from the line of Hans Frantz (immigrant ca. 1717). This immigrant Hans Frantz is alleged to have been the brother of Christian Frantz I, Michael Frantz I, and Balzar Frantz. Balzar immigrated in 1727, the same year as Michael I. Balzar's oldest son was also named John and he may have been born about 1728. I don't know if he was the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township, and I don't know who he married. My source for the John Frantz of Manor Township is Lorrraine Frantz Edwards, "Frantz Families - Kith & Kin," Volume 1, 1996, pp. 49-51. Lorraine leans heavily on old letters and on the research of Ruth Frantz Rhinehart who believes that John's father, John (Hans) Frantz also died in Manor Township, in 1767. Ruth says that when the son John Frantz bought land in Donegal Township in 1769 he was of Manor Township. All four of the Frantz immigrants had sons named John. For years, the Brethren Frantzes thought that the John Frantz who married Elizabeth Hostetter was a son of Michael Frantz II; now you suspect that he might have been connected to Balzar; but I think he was in the line of Hans Frantz the Mennonite who immigrated long before his "brothers." I don't know if any of these Johns connect with your Thommens. Good luck! Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Thomas Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I have been trying to find info on a Frantz family that lived in Elizabeth and Manor Townships of Lancaster County, PA. I found some info from Dwayne Wrightsman in the archives, and this helped me in my search. The specific person of interest is a John Frantz, who is likely the John Frantz who died about 1787 in Manor Township. This is what I have pieced together, and would appreciate any feedback. 1. A John Frantz and wife Elizabeth purchased property on 5/23/1750, along Conoy Creek, in what appears to be present day West Donegal Township. The property was purchased shortly before this time on 3/8/1750, by Adam Thomas and his wife Veronica. 2. I believe Adam is the Adam Thommen who lived along Beaver Creek in present day Providence Township (then Martic), who died about 1762. Adam had a daughter Elizabeth, and I suspect she was the wife of John Frantz (the short hold time indicates that Adam may have bought the property for his daughter). 3. Everything points to Adam Thommen being Mennonite, since his property on Beaver Creek was part of a large property purchase by Mennonite Martin Kendig in 1717, and Mennonites Martin Bare and Henry Herr were executors of his Will. Many of his descendents were Mennonite as well. 4. John Frantz then sold the Conoy Creek property in 1760 to Mary Horsch, the widow of Jacob Horsch. I believe Jacob was the son of Jacob Horsh and Barbara Schenk, who were Mennonite. 5. A John Frantz is found in Manor Township in the 1771 through 1779 tax lists, and John Frantz has a 1787 Will filed in Manor Township. 6. John appears to be the son of Balzar Frantz. Balzar had a 1733 warrant for property along Pequa Creek. Beaver Creek flows into Pequa Creek near Adam Thommen, and two of Adam's grandchildren lived in Pequa Township. 7. Balzar Frantz is said to have been married to an Anna Barbara, and both were baptized by Michael Frantz of the German Baptist Conestoga congregation around 1738. 8. I have found info that states that Balzar was the brother of German Baptist Elder Michael Frantz (source includes European tax records). 9. Balzar apparently died about 1742, since an Anna Barbara Frantz filed a 6/13/1743 warrant for property on Cocalico Creek. She filed a second warrant for the same property on 11/19/1747. This property was adjacent Henry Landis and very close to Rudolph Bollinger, both German Baptists, and very close to Ephrata. She may have wanted to leave Mennonite Pequa for German Baptist Ephrata to raise her children. 10. John Frantz had a son John Frantz and a brother Abraham Frantz. Abraham had a 1757 warrant for a property along Mill Creek in Elizabeth Township. John Frantz is found living on that same property and is in the tax lists of Elizabeth Township from 1771 through 1782. He is also listed in a 1786 Elizabeth Township property record as well. 11. This second John Frantz was the executor in the 1770 Will of Jacob Thommen of Elizabeth Township. Jacob's Will refers to John Frantz as his neighbor. This property was very close to the property of Mennonite Michael Schenk (later owned by son Martin Schenk). Michael Schenk also had property near by in Warwick Township. 12. Jacob Thommen is likely Joggi Thommen who immigrated with his wife Barbara Handschin from Holstein Switzerland in 1749. He would have been close to 90 years old when he died. I suspect Joggi was also Mennonite. 13. John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is not likely the son of Abraham Frantz, who lists only two sons (Abraham & Adam) in his 1770 will. 14. The Will of John Frantz of Manor Township lists Jacob Frantz executor, and Jacob Frantz is listed in the 1782 Manor Township tax (not John). I have a two questions: 1. Does anyone have any reliable information on the John Frantz of Manor Township? 2. Could John Frantz of Manor Township and John Frantz of Elizabeth Township be the same person (owning property in both places and thus paying taxes in both places, but living in Elizabeth Township? Bill Thomas ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bill, The two orphans court entries are easy to reconcile. On March 5, 1755, Elizabeth Frantz (daughter of Baltzar) was not yet married. She married Michael Kitch on June 3, 1755. (Source: Bindnagel Evangelical Lutheran Church Records). When the orphans court reconvened on June 10, 1755, she was the wife (of one week) of Michael Kitch. Dwayne Wrightsman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Thomas Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Dwayne: Thanks for the information. I did find several Orphan Court Records for Baltzer Frantz (two). Based on that information, and an obituary of one of his son's named George Adam Frantz from Elizabeth Township, I believe the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is the son of Baltzar. I should also point out that a 6/10/1755 Orphan court record for Baltzar also lists a daughter Anna Maria Frantz, who is named as the wife of Michael Frantz. Based on your 2006 MFH article on the Frantz family that would appear to be Michael the s/o Christian I. The Orphan Court records are from a book of Lancaster County Orphan Court abstracts (1742-1767). If so, that would make them first cousins. What concerns me is the previous Orphan Court record is dated 3/5/1755. In this record, Elizabeth is listed as a minor child but above age 14. In the June record, it lists her husband. So she was both a minor child and married....not sure if that makes sense or not. It may be due to a poor quality transcription of the actual record. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Bill, Now I suspect that I need to make another correction. I'm unsure about the generations of the successive Hans/John Frantz men. One of them married a Hostetter, but I'm not at all confident it was the one who died in 1787, so please don't put much stock into the details of what I wrote below. However, I will stick with my basic contention that the John Frantz of Manor Township was a descendant of Hans Frantz who immigrated in 1717. Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I suspect that I need to make a correction in what I wrote in the message below. The John Frantz of Manor who married Elizabeth Hostetter and died in 1787, may have been the son of the John Frantz of Manor who died in 1767, who in turn may have been the son of the 1717 immigrant Hans Frantz (death date unknown, but probably very early on). So I think I left out a generation. Also I forgot to say that the John Frantz who died in 1787 was the father of Christian Frantz who was a well known Mennonite minister in Lancaster County. Dwayne Wrightsman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Bill, If I were just making a guess, it would be that you have two different John Frantz men. I think the John Frantz (died 1787) of Manor Township was a Mennonite who was married to Elizabeth Hostetter. and who had a brother named Jacob who also married a Hostetter. John and Jacob were probably from the line of Hans Frantz (immigrant ca. 1717). This immigrant Hans Frantz is alleged to have been the brother of Christian Frantz I, Michael Frantz I, and Balzar Frantz. Balzar immigrated in 1727, the same year as Michael I. Balzar's oldest son was also named John and he may have been born about 1728. I don't know if he was the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township, and I don't know who he married. My source for the John Frantz of Manor Township is Lorrraine Frantz Edwards, "Frantz Families - Kith & Kin," Volume 1, 1996, pp. 49-51. Lorraine leans heavily on old letters and on the research of Ruth Frantz Rhinehart who believes that John's father, John (Hans) Frantz also died in Manor Township, in 1767. Ruth says that when the son John Frantz bought land in Donegal Township in 1769 he was of Manor Township. All four of the Frantz immigrants had sons named John. For years, the Brethren Frantzes thought that the John Frantz who married Elizabeth Hostetter was a son of Michael Frantz II; now you suspect that he might have been connected to Balzar; but I think he was in the line of Hans Frantz the Mennonite who immigrated long before his "brothers." I don't know if any of these Johns connect with your Thommens. Good luck! Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Thomas Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I have been trying to find info on a Frantz family that lived in Elizabeth and Manor Townships of Lancaster County, PA. I found some info from Dwayne Wrightsman in the archives, and this helped me in my search. The specific person of interest is a John Frantz, who is likely the John Frantz who died about 1787 in Manor Township. This is what I have pieced together, and would appreciate any feedback. 1. A John Frantz and wife Elizabeth purchased property on 5/23/1750, along Conoy Creek, in what appears to be present day West Donegal Township. The property was purchased shortly before this time on 3/8/1750, by Adam Thomas and his wife Veronica. 2. I believe Adam is the Adam Thommen who lived along Beaver Creek in present day Providence Township (then Martic), who died about 1762. Adam had a daughter Elizabeth, and I suspect she was the wife of John Frantz (the short hold time indicates that Adam may have bought the property for his daughter). 3. Everything points to Adam Thommen being Mennonite, since his property on Beaver Creek was part of a large property purchase by Mennonite Martin Kendig in 1717, and Mennonites Martin Bare and Henry Herr were executors of his Will. Many of his descendents were Mennonite as well. 4. John Frantz then sold the Conoy Creek property in 1760 to Mary Horsch, the widow of Jacob Horsch. I believe Jacob was the son of Jacob Horsh and Barbara Schenk, who were Mennonite. 5. A John Frantz is found in Manor Township in the 1771 through 1779 tax lists, and John Frantz has a 1787 Will filed in Manor Township. 6. John appears to be the son of Balzar Frantz. Balzar had a 1733 warrant for property along Pequa Creek. Beaver Creek flows into Pequa Creek near Adam Thommen, and two of Adam's grandchildren lived in Pequa Township. 7. Balzar Frantz is said to have been married to an Anna Barbara, and both were baptized by Michael Frantz of the German Baptist Conestoga congregation around 1738. 8. I have found info that states that Balzar was the brother of German Baptist Elder Michael Frantz (source includes European tax records). 9. Balzar apparently died about 1742, since an Anna Barbara Frantz filed a 6/13/1743 warrant for property on Cocalico Creek. She filed a second warrant for the same property on 11/19/1747. This property was adjacent Henry Landis and very close to Rudolph Bollinger, both German Baptists, and very close to Ephrata. She may have wanted to leave Mennonite Pequa for German Baptist Ephrata to raise her children. 10. John Frantz had a son John Frantz and a brother Abraham Frantz. Abraham had a 1757 warrant for a property along Mill Creek in Elizabeth Township. John Frantz is found living on that same property and is in the tax lists of Elizabeth Township from 1771 through 1782. He is also listed in a 1786 Elizabeth Township property record as well. 11. This second John Frantz was the executor in the 1770 Will of Jacob Thommen of Elizabeth Township. Jacob's Will refers to John Frantz as his neighbor. This property was very close to the property of Mennonite Michael Schenk (later owned by son Martin Schenk). Michael Schenk also had property near by in Warwick Township. 12. Jacob Thommen is likely Joggi Thommen who immigrated with his wife Barbara Handschin from Holstein Switzerland in 1749. He would have been close to 90 years old when he died. I suspect Joggi was also Mennonite. 13. John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is not likely the son of Abraham Frantz, who lists only two sons (Abraham & Adam) in his 1770 will. 14. The Will of John Frantz of Manor Township lists Jacob Frantz executor, and Jacob Frantz is listed in the 1782 Manor Township tax (not John). I have a two questions: 1. Does anyone have any reliable information on the John Frantz of Manor Township? 2. Could John Frantz of Manor Township and John Frantz of Elizabeth Township be the same person (owning property in both places and thus paying taxes in both places, but living in Elizabeth Township? Bill Thomas