Dwayne, The first sentence of Gibson was that the KY disturbance involved "the subject of slavery". Yet, througout the remainder of the quotation the issue of slavery was not mentioned. What was the issue of slavery in KY at this time and how did it contribute to the foot washing component of communion? Or was foot washing and communion a separate issue? Do you know? Robert Carpenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwayne Wrightsman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; "'Merle C Rummel'" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [BRE] "Somewhere between 1820 and 1826 there was cut off about 1,500 Brethren and sisters in Kentucky" > The subject is a quote from a letter of April 2, 1869, from Isham Gibson > to > Abraham Harley Cassel. I thought some of you might be interested in the > context of this alleged "cut off" by giving you a little more quotation > from > this long letter. Apparently Cassel was trying to learn from Isham Gibson > what happened in Kentucky in the 1820s. Bear in mind that Gibson was an > old > man when he wrote the letter. > > ".....a disturbance arose in Kentucky on the subject of slavery. A call > was > then made on our Eastern Brethren to assist them. Accordingly the > following > Brethren met at Brother Benjamin Coffman's in Muhlenberg Co. Kentucky in > the > year 1820. Samuel Arnold, Daniel Garver, John Brower, Joseph Roland, > George > Wolfe, James Hendricks, Jacob Garver, Henry Thornberry, Daniel Crouse, > Joseph Kingery, Samuel Danner, Jacob Wolfe, all these Brethren went into > Council. Propositions were discussed, the seventy and last was whether it > was right to wash feet, before or after supper..... The western Brethren > claimed that feet should be washed between supper and Bread of Communion > and > they, the western Brethren, claimed the victory over the Virginia > Brethren. > Then Brother Arnold asked the Brethren if he produced evidence that feet > were washed before supper would they not comply, to which they agreed. > Accordingly on their return home they sent testimony which settled the > question. This confirms your [Cassel's] History of the Brethren. In the > year 1823 I was baptized in Tennessee by Brother John Dick and was > ordained > May 14, 1826 [by Joseph Roland]. Somewhere between 1820 and 1826 there > was > cut off about 1,500 Brethren and sisters in Kentucky. This left only a > small remnant of Far western Brethren, the old ones having died. George > Wolfe in Union County, ILL, myself in Rutherford Co., Middle Tennessee, > having never seen each other, met in Morgan County, Illinois in > 1834......" > > Immediately after Joseph Roland ordained Isham Gibson in 1826, he > appointed > Gibson as elder in charge of the Long Creek congregation in southwestern > Muhlenberg County. Gibson was the first and only elder as the Long Creek > congregation was constituted in 1826, and then soon after disbanded, with > Joseph Roland, John Dick, and Isham Gibson leading the Far Western > Brethren > from Long Creek and Drakes Creek (in Simpson County) to Sugar Creek in > Sangamon County, Illinois, where a new congregation was constituted in > 1830. > The Long Creek Brethren existed many years before they were "constituted" > by > Joseph Roland, but by then, it was too late. I sort of doubt that my > gggrandfather Gibson was correct when he came up with the number of 1,500 > cut off, but the solution to the cut off was the same in 1826 as it was in > 1799. When, in 1799, the North Carolina Brethren were cut off for > believing > in Universal Restoration, they moved to Kentucky. When, in 1826, the > Kentucky Brethren were cut off for how they conducted Communion, those > associated with Elders Roland, Dick, and Gibson moved to Illinois. > > Dwayne Wrightsman > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Robert, I think I started the quote on a sentence too soon. Gibson tended not to use paragraphs in his letters. I have copies of his hand-written letters as well as typed transcriptions. Although he didn't address the issue of slavery, a few of the Brethren had slaves, but most did not. The foot washing and communion was a separate issue, and was the one that the quote was really about in terms of the "1,500" offending Far Western Brethren being cut off from the Eastern Annual-Meeting Brethren. Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert Carpenter Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] "Somewhere between 1820 and 1826 there was cut off about 1, 500 Brethren and sisters in Kentucky" Dwayne, The first sentence of Gibson was that the KY disturbance involved "the subject of slavery". Yet, throughout the remainder of the quotation the issue of slavery was not mentioned. What was the issue of slavery in KY at this time and how did it contribute to the foot washing component of communion? Or was foot washing and communion a separate issue? Do you know? Robert Carpenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwayne Wrightsman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; "'Merle C Rummel'" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [BRE] "Somewhere between 1820 and 1826 there was cut off about 1,500 Brethren and sisters in Kentucky" > The subject is a quote from a letter of April 2, 1869, from Isham Gibson to > Abraham Harley Cassel. I thought some of you might be interested in the > context of this alleged "cut off" by giving you a little more quotation from > this long letter. Apparently Cassel was trying to learn from Isham Gibson > what happened in Kentucky in the 1820s. Bear in mind that Gibson was an > old man when he wrote the letter. > > ".....a disturbance arose in Kentucky on the subject of slavery. A call was > then made on our Eastern Brethren to assist them. Accordingly the following > Brethren met at Brother Benjamin Coffman's in Muhlenberg Co. Kentucky in > the year 1820. Samuel Arnold, Daniel Garver, John Brower, Joseph Roland, > George Wolfe, James Hendricks, Jacob Garver, Henry Thornberry, Daniel Crouse, > Joseph Kingery, Samuel Danner, Jacob Wolfe, all these Brethren went into > Council. Propositions were discussed, the seventy and last was whether it > was right to wash feet, before or after supper..... The western Brethren > claimed that feet should be washed between supper and Bread of Communion > and they, the western Brethren, claimed the victory over the Virginia Brethren. > Then Brother Arnold asked the Brethren if he produced evidence that feet > were washed before supper would they not comply, to which they agreed. > Accordingly on their return home they sent testimony which settled the > question. This confirms your [Cassel's] History of the Brethren. In the year > 1823 I was baptized in Tennessee by Brother John Dick and was ordained > May 14, 1826 [by Joseph Roland]. Somewhere between 1820 and 1826 there > was cut off about 1,500 Brethren and sisters in Kentucky. This left only a > small remnant of Far western Brethren, the old ones having died. George > Wolfe in Union County, ILL, myself in Rutherford Co., Middle Tennessee, > having never seen each other, met in Morgan County, Illinois in 1834......" > > Immediately after Joseph Roland ordained Isham Gibson in 1826, he > appointed Gibson as elder in charge of the Long Creek congregation in southwestern > Muhlenberg County. Gibson was the first and only elder as the Long Creek > congregation was constituted in 1826, and then soon after disbanded, with > Joseph Roland, John Dick, and Isham Gibson leading the Far Western > Brethren from Long Creek and Drakes Creek (in Simpson County) to Sugar Creek > in Sangamon County, Illinois, where a new congregation was constituted in > 1830. The Long Creek Brethren existed many years before they were "constituted" > by Joseph Roland, but by then, it was too late. I sort of doubt that my > gggrandfather Gibson was correct when he came up with the number of 1,500 > cut off, but the solution to the cut off was the same in 1826 as it was in > 1799. When, in 1799, the North Carolina Brethren were cut off for believing > in Universal Restoration, they moved to Kentucky. When, in 1826, the > Kentucky Brethren were cut off for how they conducted Communion, those > associated with Elders Roland, Dick, and Gibson moved to Illinois. > > Dwayne Wrightsman

Dwayne, I was curious. Of the Brethren who remained in the Lincoln Co, NC area, most did not have slaves. Henry Rhodes Jr., son of the Dunker minister Henry Rhodes Sr., did own slaves and acquired significant financial success. Of course the Brethren congregation had disbanded by the 1840's or so. One of Younces owned a slave in the area before leaving for Ashe County, NC. Thanks for the information. Robert Carpenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwayne Wrightsman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] "Somewhere between 1820 and 1826 there was cut off about1, 500 Brethren and sisters in Kentucky" > Robert, > > I think I started the quote on a sentence too soon. Gibson tended not to > use paragraphs in his letters. I have copies of his hand-written letters > as > well as typed transcriptions. Although he didn't address the issue of > slavery, a few of the Brethren had slaves, but most did not. The foot > washing and communion was a separate issue, and was the one that the quote > was really about in terms of the "1,500" offending Far Western Brethren > being cut off from the Eastern Annual-Meeting Brethren. > > Dwayne > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Robert Carpenter > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:27 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BRE] "Somewhere between 1820 and 1826 there was cut off > about > 1, 500 Brethren and sisters in Kentucky" > > Dwayne, > > The first sentence of Gibson was that the KY disturbance involved "the > subject of slavery". Yet, throughout the remainder of the quotation the > issue of slavery was not mentioned. What was the issue of slavery in KY > at > this time and how did it contribute to the foot washing component of > communion? Or was foot washing and communion a separate issue? Do you > know? > > Robert Carpenter > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dwayne Wrightsman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>; "'Merle C Rummel'" <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:23 PM > Subject: [BRE] "Somewhere between 1820 and 1826 there was cut off about > 1,500 Brethren and sisters in Kentucky" > > >> The subject is a quote from a letter of April 2, 1869, from Isham Gibson > to >> Abraham Harley Cassel. I thought some of you might be interested in the >> context of this alleged "cut off" by giving you a little more quotation > from >> this long letter. Apparently Cassel was trying to learn from Isham >> Gibson >> what happened in Kentucky in the 1820s. Bear in mind that Gibson was an >> old man when he wrote the letter. >> >> ".....a disturbance arose in Kentucky on the subject of slavery. A call > was >> then made on our Eastern Brethren to assist them. Accordingly the > following >> Brethren met at Brother Benjamin Coffman's in Muhlenberg Co. Kentucky in >> the year 1820. Samuel Arnold, Daniel Garver, John Brower, Joseph Roland, >> George Wolfe, James Hendricks, Jacob Garver, Henry Thornberry, Daniel > Crouse, >> Joseph Kingery, Samuel Danner, Jacob Wolfe, all these Brethren went into >> Council. Propositions were discussed, the seventy and last was whether >> it >> was right to wash feet, before or after supper..... The western Brethren >> claimed that feet should be washed between supper and Bread of Communion >> and they, the western Brethren, claimed the victory over the Virginia > Brethren. >> Then Brother Arnold asked the Brethren if he produced evidence that feet >> were washed before supper would they not comply, to which they agreed. >> Accordingly on their return home they sent testimony which settled the >> question. This confirms your [Cassel's] History of the Brethren. In the > year >> 1823 I was baptized in Tennessee by Brother John Dick and was ordained >> May 14, 1826 [by Joseph Roland]. Somewhere between 1820 and 1826 there >> was cut off about 1,500 Brethren and sisters in Kentucky. This left only > a >> small remnant of Far western Brethren, the old ones having died. George >> Wolfe in Union County, ILL, myself in Rutherford Co., Middle Tennessee, >> having never seen each other, met in Morgan County, Illinois in > 1834......" >> >> Immediately after Joseph Roland ordained Isham Gibson in 1826, he >> appointed Gibson as elder in charge of the Long Creek congregation in > southwestern >> Muhlenberg County. Gibson was the first and only elder as the Long Creek >> congregation was constituted in 1826, and then soon after disbanded, with >> Joseph Roland, John Dick, and Isham Gibson leading the Far Western >> Brethren from Long Creek and Drakes Creek (in Simpson County) to Sugar > Creek >> in Sangamon County, Illinois, where a new congregation was constituted in >> 1830. The Long Creek Brethren existed many years before they were > "constituted" >> by Joseph Roland, but by then, it was too late. I sort of doubt that my >> gggrandfather Gibson was correct when he came up with the number of 1,500 >> cut off, but the solution to the cut off was the same in 1826 as it was >> in >> 1799. When, in 1799, the North Carolina Brethren were cut off for > believing >> in Universal Restoration, they moved to Kentucky. When, in 1826, the >> Kentucky Brethren were cut off for how they conducted Communion, those >> associated with Elders Roland, Dick, and Gibson moved to Illinois. >> >> Dwayne Wrightsman > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >