I can't speak to preaching but my grandfather, who was born in 1880, once told me that all his aunts spoke German. I understood this to be saying that they did not use or understand English. His father (Henry Baker) was pastor of the West Branch (Palestine) church in Darke County until his death in 1918. Did he preach in German? I don't know, but considering that his sisters and sisters-in-law apparently spoke only German it is possible that he preached in both German and English even at that late date. I very much doubt, however, that he preached only in German. Bob Harter ----- Original Message ----- From: <RRRhoads@aol.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:57 AM Subject: Re: [BRE] BRETHREN Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20 > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:55:31 -0700 > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > Subject: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions > To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CADOsdMC7Bmu5H5V_y2kx6gFpjTbBW3wwvzza8rff4=UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > If a couple was married by a German Baptist minister in 1827, > PrebleCounty, OH - *may > I presume that one or both of their families were brethren?* > > During that time period, in relatively newly settled Ohio, would a German > Baptist minister have married couples who were not part of their church? > > The specific marriage record is for a Caty Sharow to a Daniel Brucker, on > May 17, 1827, Preble County, OH. > > Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time > period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume the > couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that church > members would be married by a JOP? > > I am working on a difficult family line that seems to have ties in Miami, > Montgomery and Preble counties, OH, from about 1810 - 1840+. > > Do I understand correctly that* the designation "German Baptist" is > synonymous with Dunker Brethren in the early 1800s, Ohio?* > > Lastly, *would the German Baptist churches in the Miami Valley have > spoken > ONLY German at that time? Could the churches have been bilingual? What > about the members?* The family I'm working on (Sherow, etc.), came from > a > Scot-Irish settlement in Augusta County, VA, and appears to have been > assimilated. My research so far indicates they likely spoke English by > the > time they arrived in the Miami Valley, about 1810. > > Thank you! > > Melanie Rice > Denver, Colo. > ------------------------------------------- > > Melanie, > Hey, your one of mine, cuzz (through Thomas Jefferson Rhodes)! My > experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. it > is > evidence that the couple was of two different denominations. As for the > spoken > language, I think that German was spoken among most German descendants > until > as late as the 1870s based on German language tombstones in Montgomery > Co. > I know that the Evangelical Lutheran (aka German) churches had German > language preaching until the 1930s. High schools in rural areas (e.g. > Brookville) had German courses that ended with WW I when Germany started > the war. > When the citizens of Brookville demanded the school stop all German > courses, the school officials refused. Whereupon the citizens stormed the > school > and burned the books. > > Roger Rhoads > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

The church of the brethren is the main body of what was once known as the German baptist brethren. In the split in the 1880's the conservative branch remained German baptist. The progressives became the brethren church and the main branch is now known as the church of the brethren. John Shafer Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 13, 2014, at 2:16 PM, "Melanie Rice" <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thank you, Roger. > > I've also seen references to COB (Church of the Brethren). My > understanding is that they are not the same as the German Baptist Brethren. > > > Am I correct in this? > > Melanie > > >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:45 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: >> >> "Would the terms Dunker or Dunkard Brethren and German Baptist be used >> interchangeably in this era?" >> Certainly. They original called themselves 'brethren" (lower case) >> and later other began to call them German Brethren or German Baptist. >> Outsiders began to call them Dunkers or Dunkards due to the belief that >> demanded >> three times full emersion for baptism. There were constant problems of >> "modernization" and the desire to staying isolated from the "world". Many >> Annual Meetings were devoted to what was "good" and "bad". Sunday >> Schools for >> example. The conservatives did not like it, but the progressives wanted >> them so that children could read the Bible. "Should carpets be allowed on >> dirt floors?" was another such issue. >> Finally, in 1882 various leaders in the Brookville-Trootwood area of >> Montgomery Co. began to have meetings that resulted in the original split >> between the conservatives and progressives (the house still stands and is >> a >> private residence). Today we have many such divisions such as Grace >> Brethren, Church of the Brethren, Old Baptist Brethren (very >> conservative), etc. >> I well remember as a child seeing buggies going by our home near >> Brookville >> going to church where the men went in one door and the women and children >> in another. The buggies are now gone, and the shed for the horses during >> cold weather has only recently been demolished. But there are still two >> ultra-conservative churches near Covington, OH that use horse and buggies. >> BTW, the United Brethren in Christ and in years past the United >> Brethren and Evangelical United Brethren (the two merged with the >> Methodist >> church to become United Methodist in 1964) were not related to the above >> group. >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 06:19:39 -0700 >> From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [BRE] BRETHREN Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20 >> To: RRRhoads@aol.com >> Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: >> <CADOsdMBZX2wRtPcpvV=qye_uXVxCyqS4qrf7J_=Vz_udHpuNmQ@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> I knew what you meant. :) >> >> >>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:14 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>> Woops! Make that Western townships. >>> >>> In a message dated 2/13/2014 8:02:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>> mjrice.denver@gmail.com writes: >>> >>> Cousin Roger! Good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well. I wish >>> this family left a trail like T. J. Rhodes did! >>> >>> "My experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a >> J.P. >>> it is >>> evidence that the couple was of two different denominations." >>> >>> I had not considered the different faiths angle. I also had no idea >> that >>> German was spoken for so long in some areas. Would a relatively >>> assimilated (into the melting pot) family have likely spoken both >>> languages? >>> >>> 1800 found the Sherow's living in a Scot-Irish area of Augusta County, >>> VA. There, they married into the Andrew and Weikle families, in the >>> Scot-Irish Presbyterian church. When they arrived in Miami Valley, OH, >> ca >>> 1810, they disbursed and didn't buy land immediately adjacent to the >> rest >>> of the family. The Andrew family landed in Montgomery County, and the >>> Sherow family in Miami County: Union & Concorde twps. Once there, most >>> subsequent marriages we find are by JOP, rather than ministers. >>> >>> I and a couple of other Sherow cousins are trying to dig further on this >>> line, and we are trying to establish the original nationality of >> "Sherow, >>> Sherrow, Sharow, Shero, Sharo, Shiro." We have never seen it spelled >>> Shearer, Sherrer, ect. - which I believe would be the more German >> variant. >>> >>> Once in the Miami Valley, the family married into the Young and Peck >>> families. A local history says Philip Young joined the Brethren late in >>> life. >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 4:57 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:55:31 -0700 >>>> From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> >>>> Subject: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions >>>> To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <CADOsdMC7Bmu5H5V_y2kx6gFpjTbBW3wwvzza8rff4=UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>> >>>> If a couple was married by a German Baptist minister in 1827, >>>> PrebleCounty, OH - *may >>>> I presume that one or both of their families were brethren?* >>>> >>>> During that time period, in relatively newly settled Ohio, would a >> German >>>> Baptist minister have married couples who were not part of their >> church? >>>> >>>> The specific marriage record is for a Caty Sharow to a Daniel Brucker, >> on >>>> May 17, 1827, Preble County, OH. >>>> >>>> Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time >>>> period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume >> the >>>> couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that >> church >>>> members would be married by a JOP? >>>> >>>> I am working on a difficult family line that seems to have ties in >> Miami, >>>> Montgomery and Preble counties, OH, from about 1810 - 1840+. >>>> >>>> Do I understand correctly that* the designation "German Baptist" is >>>> synonymous with Dunker Brethren in the early 1800s, Ohio?* >>>> >>>> Lastly, *would the German Baptist churches in the Miami Valley have >>>> spoken >>>> ONLY German at that time? Could the churches have been bilingual? >> What >>>> about the members?* The family I'm working on (Sherow, etc.), came >> from >>>> a >>>> Scot-Irish settlement in Augusta County, VA, and appears to have been >>>> assimilated. My research so far indicates they likely spoke English >> by >>>> the >>>> time they arrived in the Miami Valley, about 1810. >>>> >>>> Thank you! >>>> >>>> Melanie Rice >>>> Denver, Colo. >>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Melanie, >>>> Hey, your one of mine, cuzz (through Thomas Jefferson Rhodes)! My >>>> experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. >> it >>>> is >>>> evidence that the couple was of two different denominations. As for >> the >>>> spoken >>>> language, I think that German was spoken among most German descendants >>>> until >>>> as late as the 1870s based on German language tombstones in Montgomery >>>> Co. >>>> I know that the Evangelical Lutheran (aka German) churches had German >>>> language preaching until the 1930s. High schools in rural areas (e.g. >>>> Brookville) had German courses that ended with WW I when Germany >> started >>>> the war. >>>> When the citizens of Brookville demanded the school stop all German >>>> courses, the school officials refused. Whereupon the citizens stormed >>>> the school >>>> and burned the books. >>>> >>>> Roger Rhoads >> >> >> >> ------------------------ >> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >> ------------------------ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Regarding the use German vs. English in church services . . . at my mother's congregation in Iowa the church services were completely in German until World War I. She told me that during the war there was concern about appearing too "German", and they switched to having English services instead of German. The church centennial history book has a statement to that effect also. And having looked at the original church record books, I can tell you that prior to World War I the records are all written in German. During the War they suddenly switch to English. My mother (born in 1916) first learned to speak German rather than English, but she was the eldest of her siblings and the only one who ever learned German. Her sister born in 1918 only learned English. Her parents were of German descent and were Lutheran (although her mother had Brethren ancestors) and were not recent immigrants at all. One line came over in the 1700s, and the others in the 1850s-1870s. However they all spoke primarily German until World War I.

Thanks for the information, Judy. Do we still have Bishops? Kim D. Garrison Greetings from Weyers Cave, VA

Would the terms Dunker or Dunkard Brethren and German Baptist be used interchangeably in this era? === Yes. Dunkard, Dunkards Dunkard Brethren Fraternity of German Baptist German Baptist German Baptist Brethren also look for ways books or newspapers distinguished between German speaking churches that were "German Baptist" and (old) Baptist churches of mostly German-speaking folks.

In SWPA, they used Rev in church Minutes at least as early as 1840s upward. >From my research it was: Bishops Reverend or Pastor or Preacher Deacons In 1860s, they also used the term parsonage to designate a house where a brethren pastor/Reverend lived. The Library at Elgin (back in 1990s) hadn't heard of either of these, Rev or parsonage, in use so early. As well, earliest congregations in Deeds, legal matters etc., called themselves "The Fraternity of German Baptists"; in communities, "German Baptist". Judy

Thank you, John! On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:32 PM, john shafer <shaferjp@hotmail.com> wrote: > The church of the brethren is the main body of what was once known as the > German baptist brethren. In the split in the 1880's the conservative > branch remained German baptist. The progressives became the brethren church > and the main branch is now known as the church of the brethren. > John Shafer > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Feb 13, 2014, at 2:16 PM, "Melanie Rice" <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Thank you, Roger. > > > > I've also seen references to COB (Church of the Brethren). My > > understanding is that they are not the same as the German Baptist > Brethren. > > > > > > Am I correct in this? > > > > Melanie > > > > > >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:45 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > >> > >> "Would the terms Dunker or Dunkard Brethren and German Baptist be used > >> interchangeably in this era?" > >> Certainly. They original called themselves 'brethren" (lower case) > >> and later other began to call them German Brethren or German Baptist. > >> Outsiders began to call them Dunkers or Dunkards due to the belief that > >> demanded > >> three times full emersion for baptism. There were constant problems of > >> "modernization" and the desire to staying isolated from the "world". > Many > >> Annual Meetings were devoted to what was "good" and "bad". Sunday > >> Schools for > >> example. The conservatives did not like it, but the progressives > wanted > >> them so that children could read the Bible. "Should carpets be > allowed on > >> dirt floors?" was another such issue. > >> Finally, in 1882 various leaders in the Brookville-Trootwood area of > >> Montgomery Co. began to have meetings that resulted in the original > split > >> between the conservatives and progressives (the house still stands and > is > >> a > >> private residence). Today we have many such divisions such as Grace > >> Brethren, Church of the Brethren, Old Baptist Brethren (very > >> conservative), etc. > >> I well remember as a child seeing buggies going by our home near > >> Brookville > >> going to church where the men went in one door and the women and > children > >> in another. The buggies are now gone, and the shed for the horses > during > >> cold weather has only recently been demolished. But there are still > two > >> ultra-conservative churches near Covington, OH that use horse and > buggies. > >> BTW, the United Brethren in Christ and in years past the United > >> Brethren and Evangelical United Brethren (the two merged with the > >> Methodist > >> church to become United Methodist in 1964) were not related to the > above > >> group. > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 06:19:39 -0700 > >> From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > >> Subject: Re: [BRE] BRETHREN Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20 > >> To: RRRhoads@aol.com > >> Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com > >> Message-ID: > >> <CADOsdMBZX2wRtPcpvV=qye_uXVxCyqS4qrf7J_=Vz_udHpuNmQ@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> > >> I knew what you meant. :) > >> > >> > >>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:14 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Woops! Make that Western townships. > >>> > >>> In a message dated 2/13/2014 8:02:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > >>> mjrice.denver@gmail.com writes: > >>> > >>> Cousin Roger! Good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well. I > wish > >>> this family left a trail like T. J. Rhodes did! > >>> > >>> "My experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a > >> J.P. > >>> it is > >>> evidence that the couple was of two different denominations." > >>> > >>> I had not considered the different faiths angle. I also had no idea > >> that > >>> German was spoken for so long in some areas. Would a relatively > >>> assimilated (into the melting pot) family have likely spoken both > >>> languages? > >>> > >>> 1800 found the Sherow's living in a Scot-Irish area of Augusta County, > >>> VA. There, they married into the Andrew and Weikle families, in the > >>> Scot-Irish Presbyterian church. When they arrived in Miami Valley, > OH, > >> ca > >>> 1810, they disbursed and didn't buy land immediately adjacent to the > >> rest > >>> of the family. The Andrew family landed in Montgomery County, and the > >>> Sherow family in Miami County: Union & Concorde twps. Once there, > most > >>> subsequent marriages we find are by JOP, rather than ministers. > >>> > >>> I and a couple of other Sherow cousins are trying to dig further on > this > >>> line, and we are trying to establish the original nationality of > >> "Sherow, > >>> Sherrow, Sharow, Shero, Sharo, Shiro." We have never seen it spelled > >>> Shearer, Sherrer, ect. - which I believe would be the more German > >> variant. > >>> > >>> Once in the Miami Valley, the family married into the Young and Peck > >>> families. A local history says Philip Young joined the Brethren late > in > >>> life. > >>> > >>> Thank you! > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 4:57 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Message: 1 > >>>> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:55:31 -0700 > >>>> From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > >>>> Subject: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions > >>>> To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com > >>>> Message-ID: > >>>> <CADOsdMC7Bmu5H5V_y2kx6gFpjTbBW3wwvzza8rff4=UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>>> > >>>> If a couple was married by a German Baptist minister in 1827, > >>>> PrebleCounty, OH - *may > >>>> I presume that one or both of their families were brethren?* > >>>> > >>>> During that time period, in relatively newly settled Ohio, would a > >> German > >>>> Baptist minister have married couples who were not part of their > >> church? > >>>> > >>>> The specific marriage record is for a Caty Sharow to a Daniel > Brucker, > >> on > >>>> May 17, 1827, Preble County, OH. > >>>> > >>>> Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and > time > >>>> period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume > >> the > >>>> couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that > >> church > >>>> members would be married by a JOP? > >>>> > >>>> I am working on a difficult family line that seems to have ties in > >> Miami, > >>>> Montgomery and Preble counties, OH, from about 1810 - 1840+. > >>>> > >>>> Do I understand correctly that* the designation "German Baptist" is > >>>> synonymous with Dunker Brethren in the early 1800s, Ohio?* > >>>> > >>>> Lastly, *would the German Baptist churches in the Miami Valley have > >>>> spoken > >>>> ONLY German at that time? Could the churches have been bilingual? > >> What > >>>> about the members?* The family I'm working on (Sherow, etc.), came > >> from > >>>> a > >>>> Scot-Irish settlement in Augusta County, VA, and appears to have > been > >>>> assimilated. My research so far indicates they likely spoke English > >> by > >>>> the > >>>> time they arrived in the Miami Valley, about 1810. > >>>> > >>>> Thank you! > >>>> > >>>> Melanie Rice > >>>> Denver, Colo. > >>>> ------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> Melanie, > >>>> Hey, your one of mine, cuzz (through Thomas Jefferson Rhodes)! My > >>>> experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. > >> it > >>>> is > >>>> evidence that the couple was of two different denominations. As for > >> the > >>>> spoken > >>>> language, I think that German was spoken among most German > descendants > >>>> until > >>>> as late as the 1870s based on German language tombstones in > Montgomery > >>>> Co. > >>>> I know that the Evangelical Lutheran (aka German) churches had > German > >>>> language preaching until the 1930s. High schools in rural areas > (e.g. > >>>> Brookville) had German courses that ended with WW I when Germany > >> started > >>>> the war. > >>>> When the citizens of Brookville demanded the school stop all German > >>>> courses, the school officials refused. Whereupon the citizens > stormed > >>>> the school > >>>> and burned the books. > >>>> > >>>> Roger Rhoads > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------ > >> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > >> ------------------------ > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

"Would the terms Dunker or Dunkard Brethren and German Baptist be used interchangeably in this era?" Certainly. They original called themselves 'brethren" (lower case) and later other began to call them German Brethren or German Baptist. Outsiders began to call them Dunkers or Dunkards due to the belief that demanded three times full emersion for baptism. There were constant problems of "modernization" and the desire to staying isolated from the "world". Many Annual Meetings were devoted to what was "good" and "bad". Sunday Schools for example. The conservatives did not like it, but the progressives wanted them so that children could read the Bible. "Should carpets be allowed on dirt floors?" was another such issue. Finally, in 1882 various leaders in the Brookville-Trootwood area of Montgomery Co. began to have meetings that resulted in the original split between the conservatives and progressives (the house still stands and is a private residence). Today we have many such divisions such as Grace Brethren, Church of the Brethren, Old Baptist Brethren (very conservative), etc. I well remember as a child seeing buggies going by our home near Brookville going to church where the men went in one door and the women and children in another. The buggies are now gone, and the shed for the horses during cold weather has only recently been demolished. But there are still two ultra-conservative churches near Covington, OH that use horse and buggies. BTW, the United Brethren in Christ and in years past the United Brethren and Evangelical United Brethren (the two merged with the Methodist church to become United Methodist in 1964) were not related to the above group. Message: 1 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 06:19:39 -0700 From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [BRE] BRETHREN Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20 To: RRRhoads@aol.com Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CADOsdMBZX2wRtPcpvV=qye_uXVxCyqS4qrf7J_=Vz_udHpuNmQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I knew what you meant. :) On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:14 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > Woops! Make that Western townships. > > In a message dated 2/13/2014 8:02:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mjrice.denver@gmail.com writes: > > Cousin Roger! Good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well. I wish > this family left a trail like T. J. Rhodes did! > > "My experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. > it is > evidence that the couple was of two different denominations." > > I had not considered the different faiths angle. I also had no idea that > German was spoken for so long in some areas. Would a relatively > assimilated (into the melting pot) family have likely spoken both > languages? > > 1800 found the Sherow's living in a Scot-Irish area of Augusta County, > VA. There, they married into the Andrew and Weikle families, in the > Scot-Irish Presbyterian church. When they arrived in Miami Valley, OH, ca > 1810, they disbursed and didn't buy land immediately adjacent to the rest > of the family. The Andrew family landed in Montgomery County, and the > Sherow family in Miami County: Union & Concorde twps. Once there, most > subsequent marriages we find are by JOP, rather than ministers. > > I and a couple of other Sherow cousins are trying to dig further on this > line, and we are trying to establish the original nationality of "Sherow, > Sherrow, Sharow, Shero, Sharo, Shiro." We have never seen it spelled > Shearer, Sherrer, ect. - which I believe would be the more German variant. > > Once in the Miami Valley, the family married into the Young and Peck > families. A local history says Philip Young joined the Brethren late in > life. > > Thank you! > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 4:57 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:55:31 -0700 >> From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> >> Subject: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions >> To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: >> <CADOsdMC7Bmu5H5V_y2kx6gFpjTbBW3wwvzza8rff4=UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> If a couple was married by a German Baptist minister in 1827, >> PrebleCounty, OH - *may >> I presume that one or both of their families were brethren?* >> >> During that time period, in relatively newly settled Ohio, would a German >> Baptist minister have married couples who were not part of their church? >> >> The specific marriage record is for a Caty Sharow to a Daniel Brucker, on >> May 17, 1827, Preble County, OH. >> >> Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time >> period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume the >> couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that church >> members would be married by a JOP? >> >> I am working on a difficult family line that seems to have ties in Miami, >> Montgomery and Preble counties, OH, from about 1810 - 1840+. >> >> Do I understand correctly that* the designation "German Baptist" is >> synonymous with Dunker Brethren in the early 1800s, Ohio?* >> >> Lastly, *would the German Baptist churches in the Miami Valley have >> spoken >> ONLY German at that time? Could the churches have been bilingual? What >> about the members?* The family I'm working on (Sherow, etc.), came from >> a >> Scot-Irish settlement in Augusta County, VA, and appears to have been >> assimilated. My research so far indicates they likely spoke English by >> the >> time they arrived in the Miami Valley, about 1810. >> >> Thank you! >> >> Melanie Rice >> Denver, Colo. >> ------------------------------------------- >> >> Melanie, >> Hey, your one of mine, cuzz (through Thomas Jefferson Rhodes)! My >> experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. it >> is >> evidence that the couple was of two different denominations. As for the >> spoken >> language, I think that German was spoken among most German descendants >> until >> as late as the 1870s based on German language tombstones in Montgomery >> Co. >> I know that the Evangelical Lutheran (aka German) churches had German >> language preaching until the 1930s. High schools in rural areas (e.g. >> Brookville) had German courses that ended with WW I when Germany started >> the war. >> When the citizens of Brookville demanded the school stop all German >> courses, the school officials refused. Whereupon the citizens stormed >> the school >> and burned the books. >> >> Roger Rhoads

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:03 AM, Shirley Frick <slsf74@emypeople.net> wrote: > > And then........in the late 20's, 30's and still in the mid 40's many > couples were married in the bride's home with just family and the minister. > They didn't have much money, but to me it seemed better then going > off to some JOP to be married. ======= Home marriages became a norm in many families, not just in Brethren families, at least between (at minimum 1900-1940s. On my Washington Co PA website (freepages+genealogy at rootsweb.com, see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/ ), "at home" weddings were extremely common. I don't think it was as much an issue of money or not, but instead a bridal trend, just like brides sometimes wore suits (skirt, blouse, jacket) or at least changed to a "traveling suit" after the wedding. As well, as more people owned cars, a 'motor trip honeymoon' through two or more states was very common. You can look at bridal trend websites to get an idea about influences on brides, their attire, wedding dress, and wedding location. JP marriages were not at all uncommon, even in a town full of churches, across all faiths, or as Shirley indicated, home weddings with their minister officiating. Google any year+officiated or officiating and you should find plentiful examples of home weddings. Also, many wedding notices were less than a paragraph...many only a few paragraphs... in many small town papers, these were Editor's choices, not subscriber choices. All that said, I cannot say that Brethren married more by JP or Minister. And JP ("the law") would be more prevalent in newer settlements 1800s, but would depend most on location post-1900 (or just before). As well, young brides age 13-15 were not uncommon still in 1900-1940s at least in SW PA where couples just crossed into WVA to marry (at churches or JPs). Judy

Thank you, Roger. I've also seen references to COB (Church of the Brethren). My understanding is that they are not the same as the German Baptist Brethren. Am I correct in this? Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:45 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > "Would the terms Dunker or Dunkard Brethren and German Baptist be used > interchangeably in this era?" > Certainly. They original called themselves 'brethren" (lower case) > and later other began to call them German Brethren or German Baptist. > Outsiders began to call them Dunkers or Dunkards due to the belief that > demanded > three times full emersion for baptism. There were constant problems of > "modernization" and the desire to staying isolated from the "world". Many > Annual Meetings were devoted to what was "good" and "bad". Sunday > Schools for > example. The conservatives did not like it, but the progressives wanted > them so that children could read the Bible. "Should carpets be allowed on > dirt floors?" was another such issue. > Finally, in 1882 various leaders in the Brookville-Trootwood area of > Montgomery Co. began to have meetings that resulted in the original split > between the conservatives and progressives (the house still stands and is > a > private residence). Today we have many such divisions such as Grace > Brethren, Church of the Brethren, Old Baptist Brethren (very > conservative), etc. > I well remember as a child seeing buggies going by our home near > Brookville > going to church where the men went in one door and the women and children > in another. The buggies are now gone, and the shed for the horses during > cold weather has only recently been demolished. But there are still two > ultra-conservative churches near Covington, OH that use horse and buggies. > BTW, the United Brethren in Christ and in years past the United > Brethren and Evangelical United Brethren (the two merged with the > Methodist > church to become United Methodist in 1964) were not related to the above > group. > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 06:19:39 -0700 > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [BRE] BRETHREN Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20 > To: RRRhoads@aol.com > Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CADOsdMBZX2wRtPcpvV=qye_uXVxCyqS4qrf7J_=Vz_udHpuNmQ@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I knew what you meant. :) > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:14 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > > > Woops! Make that Western townships. > > > > In a message dated 2/13/2014 8:02:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > mjrice.denver@gmail.com writes: > > > > Cousin Roger! Good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well. I wish > > this family left a trail like T. J. Rhodes did! > > > > "My experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a > J.P. > > it is > > evidence that the couple was of two different denominations." > > > > I had not considered the different faiths angle. I also had no idea > that > > German was spoken for so long in some areas. Would a relatively > > assimilated (into the melting pot) family have likely spoken both > > languages? > > > > 1800 found the Sherow's living in a Scot-Irish area of Augusta County, > > VA. There, they married into the Andrew and Weikle families, in the > > Scot-Irish Presbyterian church. When they arrived in Miami Valley, OH, > ca > > 1810, they disbursed and didn't buy land immediately adjacent to the > rest > > of the family. The Andrew family landed in Montgomery County, and the > > Sherow family in Miami County: Union & Concorde twps. Once there, most > > subsequent marriages we find are by JOP, rather than ministers. > > > > I and a couple of other Sherow cousins are trying to dig further on this > > line, and we are trying to establish the original nationality of > "Sherow, > > Sherrow, Sharow, Shero, Sharo, Shiro." We have never seen it spelled > > Shearer, Sherrer, ect. - which I believe would be the more German > variant. > > > > Once in the Miami Valley, the family married into the Young and Peck > > families. A local history says Philip Young joined the Brethren late in > > life. > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 4:57 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:55:31 -0700 > >> From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > >> Subject: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions > >> To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com > >> Message-ID: > >> <CADOsdMC7Bmu5H5V_y2kx6gFpjTbBW3wwvzza8rff4=UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> > >> If a couple was married by a German Baptist minister in 1827, > >> PrebleCounty, OH - *may > >> I presume that one or both of their families were brethren?* > >> > >> During that time period, in relatively newly settled Ohio, would a > German > >> Baptist minister have married couples who were not part of their > church? > >> > >> The specific marriage record is for a Caty Sharow to a Daniel Brucker, > on > >> May 17, 1827, Preble County, OH. > >> > >> Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time > >> period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume > the > >> couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that > church > >> members would be married by a JOP? > >> > >> I am working on a difficult family line that seems to have ties in > Miami, > >> Montgomery and Preble counties, OH, from about 1810 - 1840+. > >> > >> Do I understand correctly that* the designation "German Baptist" is > >> synonymous with Dunker Brethren in the early 1800s, Ohio?* > >> > >> Lastly, *would the German Baptist churches in the Miami Valley have > >> spoken > >> ONLY German at that time? Could the churches have been bilingual? > What > >> about the members?* The family I'm working on (Sherow, etc.), came > from > >> a > >> Scot-Irish settlement in Augusta County, VA, and appears to have been > >> assimilated. My research so far indicates they likely spoke English > by > >> the > >> time they arrived in the Miami Valley, about 1810. > >> > >> Thank you! > >> > >> Melanie Rice > >> Denver, Colo. > >> ------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Melanie, > >> Hey, your one of mine, cuzz (through Thomas Jefferson Rhodes)! My > >> experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. > it > >> is > >> evidence that the couple was of two different denominations. As for > the > >> spoken > >> language, I think that German was spoken among most German descendants > >> until > >> as late as the 1870s based on German language tombstones in Montgomery > >> Co. > >> I know that the Evangelical Lutheran (aka German) churches had German > >> language preaching until the 1930s. High schools in rural areas (e.g. > >> Brookville) had German courses that ended with WW I when Germany > started > >> the war. > >> When the citizens of Brookville demanded the school stop all German > >> courses, the school officials refused. Whereupon the citizens stormed > >> the school > >> and burned the books. > >> > >> Roger Rhoads > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

So many things changed as our country developed and churches of many denominations were planted. However, in 1800 - 1840, Miami Valley, Ohio - things were quite different. I'm wanting to specifically explore the cultural norms among DunkardBrethren / German Baptist folks in that time and place, hoping to get clues for further research on my elusive Sherows. Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:43 AM, JFlorian <cageycat@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:03 AM, Shirley Frick <slsf74@emypeople.net> > wrote: > > > > > And then........in the late 20's, 30's and still in the mid 40's many > > couples were married in the bride's home with just family and the > minister. > > They didn't have much money, but to me it seemed better then going > > off to some JOP to be married. > > ======= > Home marriages became a norm in many families, not just in Brethren > families, at least between (at minimum 1900-1940s. On my Washington Co PA > website (freepages+genealogy at rootsweb.com, see > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/ ), "at home" > weddings were extremely common. > > I don't think it was as much an issue of money or not, but instead a bridal > trend, just like brides sometimes wore suits (skirt, blouse, jacket) or at > least changed to a "traveling suit" after the wedding. As well, as more > people owned cars, a 'motor trip honeymoon' through two or more states was > very common. You can look at bridal trend websites to get an idea about > influences on brides, their attire, wedding dress, and wedding location. > JP marriages were not at all uncommon, even in a town full of churches, > across all faiths, or as Shirley indicated, home weddings with their > minister officiating. Google any year+officiated or officiating and you > should find plentiful examples of home weddings. Also, many wedding > notices were less than a paragraph...many only a few paragraphs... in many > small town papers, these were Editor's choices, not subscriber choices. > > All that said, I cannot say that Brethren married more by JP or Minister. > And JP ("the law") would be more prevalent in newer settlements 1800s, but > would depend most on location post-1900 (or just before). As well, young > brides age 13-15 were not uncommon still in 1900-1940s at least in SW PA > where couples just crossed into WVA to marry (at churches or JPs). > > Judy > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks, Shirley. However, I am specifically inquiring about the early 1800s in Miami Valley, OH. At that time, cultural norms were different because it was newly settled and the country was still in it's infancy. On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Shirley Frick <slsf74@emypeople.net> wrote: > In answering one of Melanie's questions, I know of several couples who were > raised in the Brethren Faith, within the last 5 years. Their parents taught > many good principles of faith, love, joy and mercy, yet, when their > children > were ready for marriage they traveled to another state, got married by the > JOP (who was a minister) and called their parents to let them know they > were > married. Some said they were pushed into having a big wedding and they > didn't want it. I suppose one could insert their own assumptions. Within a > matter of time, the couple chose to leave the Faith. > > However, if you turn the pages back to the year, 1914, my grandparents were > COB near Marshall County, IN. who went to the JOP to be married too! In > asking my father about it, he said,"To them, it was the thing to do!" Even > though they changed church affiliations, yet stayed Brethren, they enjoyed > 11 children. > > And then........in the late 20's, 30's and still in the mid 40's many > couples were married in the bride's home with just family and the minister. > They didn't have much money, but to me it seemed better then going > off to some JOP to be married. > > Just a chat, > Shirley Frick > > > >Melanie replies: > > Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time > > period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume the > > couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that church > > members would be married by a JOP? > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ruth, We have considered that possibility, but so far, no evidence points in that direction. This is why I'm digging around the collateral lines and looking at the family's religious affiliation. On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Ruth Hoese <ruthjh@gmail.com> wrote: > > Have you looked into the possibility that Shirrow could be French. As in > Shireau or Chireau or variants with an x on the end. Thought of this > because I lived in Cajun Louisiana for many years and they have that > type name variations. > > On 2/13/2014 7:19 AM, Melanie Rice wrote: > > I knew what you meant. :) > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:14 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> Woops! Make that Western townships. > >> > >> In a message dated 2/13/2014 8:02:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > >> mjrice.denver@gmail.com writes: > >> > >> Cousin Roger! Good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well. I wish > >> this family left a trail like T. J. Rhodes did! > >> > >> "My experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a > J.P. > >> it is > >> evidence that the couple was of two different denominations." > >> > >> I had not considered the different faiths angle. I also had no idea > that > >> German was spoken for so long in some areas. Would a relatively > >> assimilated (into the melting pot) family have likely spoken both > >> languages? > >> > >> 1800 found the Sherow's living in a Scot-Irish area of Augusta County, > >> VA. There, they married into the Andrew and Weikle families, in the > >> Scot-Irish Presbyterian church. When they arrived in Miami Valley, OH, > ca > >> 1810, they disbursed and didn't buy land immediately adjacent to the > rest > >> of the family. The Andrew family landed in Montgomery County, and the > >> Sherow family in Miami County: Union & Concorde twps. Once there, most > >> subsequent marriages we find are by JOP, rather than ministers. > >> > >> I and a couple of other Sherow cousins are trying to dig further on this > >> line, and we are trying to establish the original nationality of > "Sherow, > >> Sherrow, Sharow, Shero, Sharo, Shiro." We have never seen it spelled > >> Shearer, Sherrer, ect. - which I believe would be the more German > variant. > >> > >> Once in the Miami Valley, the family married into the Young and Peck > >> families. A local history says Philip Young joined the Brethren late in > >> life. > >> > >> Thank you! > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 4:57 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Message: 1 > >>> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:55:31 -0700 > >>> From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > >>> Subject: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions > >>> To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com > >>> Message-ID: > >>> <CADOsdMC7Bmu5H5V_y2kx6gFpjTbBW3wwvzza8rff4=UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>> > >>> If a couple was married by a German Baptist minister in 1827, > >>> PrebleCounty, OH - *may > >>> I presume that one or both of their families were brethren?* > >>> > >>> During that time period, in relatively newly settled Ohio, would a > German > >>> Baptist minister have married couples who were not part of their > church? > >>> > >>> The specific marriage record is for a Caty Sharow to a Daniel > Brucker, on > >>> May 17, 1827, Preble County, OH. > >>> > >>> Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time > >>> period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume > the > >>> couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that > church > >>> members would be married by a JOP? > >>> > >>> I am working on a difficult family line that seems to have ties in > Miami, > >>> Montgomery and Preble counties, OH, from about 1810 - 1840+. > >>> > >>> Do I understand correctly that* the designation "German Baptist" is > >>> synonymous with Dunker Brethren in the early 1800s, Ohio?* > >>> > >>> Lastly, *would the German Baptist churches in the Miami Valley have > >>> spoken > >>> ONLY German at that time? Could the churches have been bilingual? > What > >>> about the members?* The family I'm working on (Sherow, etc.), came > from > >>> a > >>> Scot-Irish settlement in Augusta County, VA, and appears to have been > >>> assimilated. My research so far indicates they likely spoke English > by > >>> the > >>> time they arrived in the Miami Valley, about 1810. > >>> > >>> Thank you! > >>> > >>> Melanie Rice > >>> Denver, Colo. > >>> ------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Melanie, > >>> Hey, your one of mine, cuzz (through Thomas Jefferson Rhodes)! My > >>> experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. > it > >>> is > >>> evidence that the couple was of two different denominations. As for > the > >>> spoken > >>> language, I think that German was spoken among most German descendants > >>> until > >>> as late as the 1870s based on German language tombstones in Montgomery > >>> Co. > >>> I know that the Evangelical Lutheran (aka German) churches had German > >>> language preaching until the 1930s. High schools in rural areas (e.g. > >>> Brookville) had German courses that ended with WW I when Germany > started > >>> the war. > >>> When the citizens of Brookville demanded the school stop all German > >>> courses, the school officials refused. Whereupon the citizens stormed > >>> the school > >>> and burned the books. > >>> > >>> Roger Rhoads > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------ > >>> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > >>> ------------------------ > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >> > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Back in the 1960's, when I was in college in Jefferson County, IA, there were so many German-speaking farmers in the area that the local stores and banks all made certain they had at least one German-speaking clerk. I was young and not inquisitive about the locals, so I don't know what faith(s) these people followed -- to me it seemed an aberration in "modern America." The German influence was so strong that the local congressional candidates were Mr. Schwengels and Mr. Schmidhauser (each won once while I was there). Only later, when I took up genealogy, did I learn I had relatives there (the ones I now know of weren't Brethren or German). Duncan Morrow -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Rice Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:11 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions Thank you, Bill. If I understand correctly, it is possible that Brethren church members may have spoken both English and German, but the church may have used German in the early 1800s? WOULD a Brethren minister have married a couple who were not of that faith? For example, in more remote areas where there were not nearby churches - if a minister passed through the area, would he have been likely to marry couples wishing to marry, regardless of their faith? I'm trying to understand if a marriage by a Brethren minister is a strong indicator that the couple were both from Brethren families. Thanks! On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Bill Thomas <wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> wrote: > There are exceptions to every rule, but a history of the Sandy Creek > Congregation in present day West Virginia that was written in an 1876 > issue of the 'Primitive Christian' states that they spoke German in > the Sandy Creek church services until 1824. In the early days they > also used a German Bible and sang German Hymns. In the 18th and early > 19th Century, one could be disowned for being married out side the > German Baptist church. But neither of these are absolutes. Speaking > English is not a guarantee they would preach in English. For example, > the Amish in 2014 preach in German, have a German Bible and sing in > German, even though they all speak English. > > Bill Thomas > > -----Original Message----- > From: Melanie Rice > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 8:55 PM > To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com > Subject: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions > > If a couple was married by a German Baptist minister in 1827, > PrebleCounty, OH - *may I presume that one or both of their families > were brethren?* > > During that time period, in relatively newly settled Ohio, would a > German Baptist minister have married couples who were not part of their church? > > The specific marriage record is for a Caty Sharow to a Daniel Brucker, > on May 17, 1827, Preble County, OH. > > Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time > period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume > the couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that > church members would be married by a JOP? > > I am working on a difficult family line that seems to have ties in > Miami, Montgomery and Preble counties, OH, from about 1810 - 1840+. > > Do I understand correctly that* the designation "German Baptist" is > synonymous with Dunker Brethren in the early 1800s, Ohio?* > > Lastly, *would the German Baptist churches in the Miami Valley have > spoken ONLY German at that time? Could the churches have been > bilingual? What about the members?* The family I'm working on > (Sherow, etc.), came from a Scot-Irish settlement in Augusta County, > VA, and appears to have been assimilated. My research so far > indicates they likely spoke English by the time they arrived in the Miami Valley, about 1810. > > Thank you! > > Melanie Rice > Denver, Colo. > > ------------------------ Search the > Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ Search the > Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In answering one of Melanie's questions, I know of several couples who were raised in the Brethren Faith, within the last 5 years. Their parents taught many good principles of faith, love, joy and mercy, yet, when their children were ready for marriage they traveled to another state, got married by the JOP (who was a minister) and called their parents to let them know they were married. Some said they were pushed into having a big wedding and they didn't want it. I suppose one could insert their own assumptions. Within a matter of time, the couple chose to leave the Faith. However, if you turn the pages back to the year, 1914, my grandparents were COB near Marshall County, IN. who went to the JOP to be married too! In asking my father about it, he said,"To them, it was the thing to do!" Even though they changed church affiliations, yet stayed Brethren, they enjoyed 11 children. And then........in the late 20's, 30's and still in the mid 40's many couples were married in the bride's home with just family and the minister. They didn't have much money, but to me it seemed better then going off to some JOP to be married. Just a chat, Shirley Frick >Melanie replies: > Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time > period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume the > couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that church > members would be married by a JOP? >

I am a member of the Church of the Brethren and have attended several Brethren churches over the years. I noticed that most congregations refer to their leaders as pastors. Has this been a consistent title throughout the years? I am aware that we also have Bishops, although I'm not aware of any at this time in the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia. I'm trying to find out where Rev. Ernest C. Landes b. 30 Apr 1884 d. 30 Jun 1930 preached. He is buried in Nokesville, Virginia in Valley View Cemetery. I checked the Nokesville CoB website for a list of pastors, but I couldn't find one. The Manassas CoB website has a broken link to their Brethren history page. Since his title is Rev. on his gravestone, I thought he may have been a minister at a Methodist or other church. Thank you for any help, suggestions or explanations. Kim D. Garrison Greetings from Weyers Cave, VA

Have you looked into the possibility that Shirrow could be French. As in Shireau or Chireau or variants with an x on the end. Thought of this because I lived in Cajun Louisiana for many years and they have that type name variations. On 2/13/2014 7:19 AM, Melanie Rice wrote: > I knew what you meant. :) > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:14 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: > >> Woops! Make that Western townships. >> >> In a message dated 2/13/2014 8:02:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> mjrice.denver@gmail.com writes: >> >> Cousin Roger! Good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well. I wish >> this family left a trail like T. J. Rhodes did! >> >> "My experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. >> it is >> evidence that the couple was of two different denominations." >> >> I had not considered the different faiths angle. I also had no idea that >> German was spoken for so long in some areas. Would a relatively >> assimilated (into the melting pot) family have likely spoken both >> languages? >> >> 1800 found the Sherow's living in a Scot-Irish area of Augusta County, >> VA. There, they married into the Andrew and Weikle families, in the >> Scot-Irish Presbyterian church. When they arrived in Miami Valley, OH, ca >> 1810, they disbursed and didn't buy land immediately adjacent to the rest >> of the family. The Andrew family landed in Montgomery County, and the >> Sherow family in Miami County: Union & Concorde twps. Once there, most >> subsequent marriages we find are by JOP, rather than ministers. >> >> I and a couple of other Sherow cousins are trying to dig further on this >> line, and we are trying to establish the original nationality of "Sherow, >> Sherrow, Sharow, Shero, Sharo, Shiro." We have never seen it spelled >> Shearer, Sherrer, ect. - which I believe would be the more German variant. >> >> Once in the Miami Valley, the family married into the Young and Peck >> families. A local history says Philip Young joined the Brethren late in >> life. >> >> Thank you! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 4:57 AM, <RRRhoads@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:55:31 -0700 >>> From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> >>> Subject: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions >>> To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com >>> Message-ID: >>> <CADOsdMC7Bmu5H5V_y2kx6gFpjTbBW3wwvzza8rff4=UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>> If a couple was married by a German Baptist minister in 1827, >>> PrebleCounty, OH - *may >>> I presume that one or both of their families were brethren?* >>> >>> During that time period, in relatively newly settled Ohio, would a German >>> Baptist minister have married couples who were not part of their church? >>> >>> The specific marriage record is for a Caty Sharow to a Daniel Brucker, on >>> May 17, 1827, Preble County, OH. >>> >>> Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time >>> period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume the >>> couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that church >>> members would be married by a JOP? >>> >>> I am working on a difficult family line that seems to have ties in Miami, >>> Montgomery and Preble counties, OH, from about 1810 - 1840+. >>> >>> Do I understand correctly that* the designation "German Baptist" is >>> synonymous with Dunker Brethren in the early 1800s, Ohio?* >>> >>> Lastly, *would the German Baptist churches in the Miami Valley have >>> spoken >>> ONLY German at that time? Could the churches have been bilingual? What >>> about the members?* The family I'm working on (Sherow, etc.), came from >>> a >>> Scot-Irish settlement in Augusta County, VA, and appears to have been >>> assimilated. My research so far indicates they likely spoke English by >>> the >>> time they arrived in the Miami Valley, about 1810. >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> Melanie Rice >>> Denver, Colo. >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Melanie, >>> Hey, your one of mine, cuzz (through Thomas Jefferson Rhodes)! My >>> experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. it >>> is >>> evidence that the couple was of two different denominations. As for the >>> spoken >>> language, I think that German was spoken among most German descendants >>> until >>> as late as the 1870s based on German language tombstones in Montgomery >>> Co. >>> I know that the Evangelical Lutheran (aka German) churches had German >>> language preaching until the 1930s. High schools in rural areas (e.g. >>> Brookville) had German courses that ended with WW I when Germany started >>> the war. >>> When the citizens of Brookville demanded the school stop all German >>> courses, the school officials refused. Whereupon the citizens stormed >>> the school >>> and burned the books. >>> >>> Roger Rhoads >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------ >>> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >>> ------------------------ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Woops! Make that Western townships. In a message dated 2/13/2014 8:02:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mjrice.denver@gmail.com writes: Cousin Roger! Good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well. I wish this family left a trail like T. J. Rhodes did! "My experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. it is evidence that the couple was of two different denominations." I had not considered the different faiths angle. I also had no idea that German was spoken for so long in some areas. Would a relatively assimilated (into the melting pot) family have likely spoken both languages? 1800 found the Sherow's living in a Scot-Irish area of Augusta County, VA. There, they married into the Andrew and Weikle families, in the Scot-Irish Presbyterian church. When they arrived in Miami Valley, OH, ca 1810, they disbursed and didn't buy land immediately adjacent to the rest of the family. The Andrew family landed in Montgomery County, and the Sherow family in Miami County: Union & Concorde twps. Once there, most subsequent marriages we find are by JOP, rather than ministers. I and a couple of other Sherow cousins are trying to dig further on this line, and we are trying to establish the original nationality of "Sherow, Sherrow, Sharow, Shero, Sharo, Shiro." We have never seen it spelled Shearer, Sherrer, ect. - which I believe would be the more German variant. Once in the Miami Valley, the family married into the Young and Peck families. A local history says Philip Young joined the Brethren late in life. Thank you! On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 4:57 AM, <_RRRhoads@aol.com_ (mailto:RRRhoads@aol.com) > wrote: Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:55:31 -0700 From: Melanie Rice <_mjrice.denver@gmail.com_ (mailto:mjrice.denver@gmail.com) > Subject: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions To: _BRETHREN@rootsweb.com_ (mailto:BRETHREN@rootsweb.com) Message-ID: <CADOsdMC7Bmu5H5V_y2kx6gFpjTbBW3wwvzza8rff4=_UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com_ (mailto:UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If a couple was married by a German Baptist minister in 1827, PrebleCounty, OH - *may I presume that one or both of their families were brethren?* During that time period, in relatively newly settled Ohio, would a German Baptist minister have married couples who were not part of their church? The specific marriage record is for a Caty Sharow to a Daniel Brucker, on May 17, 1827, Preble County, OH. Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume the couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that church members would be married by a JOP? I am working on a difficult family line that seems to have ties in Miami, Montgomery and Preble counties, OH, from about 1810 - 1840+. Do I understand correctly that* the designation "German Baptist" is synonymous with Dunker Brethren in the early 1800s, Ohio?* Lastly, *would the German Baptist churches in the Miami Valley have spoken ONLY German at that time? Could the churches have been bilingual? What about the members?* The family I'm working on (Sherow, etc.), came from a Scot-Irish settlement in Augusta County, VA, and appears to have been assimilated. My research so far indicates they likely spoke English by the time they arrived in the Miami Valley, about 1810. Thank you! Melanie Rice Denver, Colo. ------------------------------------------- Melanie, Hey, your one of mine, cuzz (through Thomas Jefferson Rhodes)! My experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. it is evidence that the couple was of two different denominations. As for the spoken language, I think that German was spoken among most German descendants until as late as the 1870s based on German language tombstones in Montgomery Co. I know that the Evangelical Lutheran (aka German) churches had German language preaching until the 1930s. High schools in rural areas (e.g. Brookville) had German courses that ended with WW I when Germany started the war. When the citizens of Brookville demanded the school stop all German courses, the school officials refused. Whereupon the citizens stormed the school and burned the books. Roger Rhoads ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to _BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com_ (mailto:BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com) with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just like the Amish, our German-descendant ancestors spoke both languages. In Montgomery Co. the eastern townships were almost totally that with the exception of town folks. Rog Rhoadsw In a message dated 2/13/2014 8:02:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mjrice.denver@gmail.com writes: Cousin Roger! Good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well. I wish this family left a trail like T. J. Rhodes did! "My experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. it is evidence that the couple was of two different denominations." I had not considered the different faiths angle. I also had no idea that German was spoken for so long in some areas. Would a relatively assimilated (into the melting pot) family have likely spoken both languages? 1800 found the Sherow's living in a Scot-Irish area of Augusta County, VA. There, they married into the Andrew and Weikle families, in the Scot-Irish Presbyterian church. When they arrived in Miami Valley, OH, ca 1810, they disbursed and didn't buy land immediately adjacent to the rest of the family. The Andrew family landed in Montgomery County, and the Sherow family in Miami County: Union & Concorde twps. Once there, most subsequent marriages we find are by JOP, rather than ministers. I and a couple of other Sherow cousins are trying to dig further on this line, and we are trying to establish the original nationality of "Sherow, Sherrow, Sharow, Shero, Sharo, Shiro." We have never seen it spelled Shearer, Sherrer, ect. - which I believe would be the more German variant. Once in the Miami Valley, the family married into the Young and Peck families. A local history says Philip Young joined the Brethren late in life. Thank you! On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 4:57 AM, <_RRRhoads@aol.com_ (mailto:RRRhoads@aol.com) > wrote: Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:55:31 -0700 From: Melanie Rice <_mjrice.denver@gmail.com_ (mailto:mjrice.denver@gmail.com) > Subject: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions To: _BRETHREN@rootsweb.com_ (mailto:BRETHREN@rootsweb.com) Message-ID: <CADOsdMC7Bmu5H5V_y2kx6gFpjTbBW3wwvzza8rff4=_UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com_ (mailto:UGGnwj5g@mail.gmail.com) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If a couple was married by a German Baptist minister in 1827, PrebleCounty, OH - *may I presume that one or both of their families were brethren?* During that time period, in relatively newly settled Ohio, would a German Baptist minister have married couples who were not part of their church? The specific marriage record is for a Caty Sharow to a Daniel Brucker, on May 17, 1827, Preble County, OH. Also, if other couples I am researching in the same vicinity and time period were NOT married by a minister of the gospel, *may I presume the couple was not religious?* Would there be legitimate reasons that church members would be married by a JOP? I am working on a difficult family line that seems to have ties in Miami, Montgomery and Preble counties, OH, from about 1810 - 1840+. Do I understand correctly that* the designation "German Baptist" is synonymous with Dunker Brethren in the early 1800s, Ohio?* Lastly, *would the German Baptist churches in the Miami Valley have spoken ONLY German at that time? Could the churches have been bilingual? What about the members?* The family I'm working on (Sherow, etc.), came from a Scot-Irish settlement in Augusta County, VA, and appears to have been assimilated. My research so far indicates they likely spoke English by the time they arrived in the Miami Valley, about 1810. Thank you! Melanie Rice Denver, Colo. ------------------------------------------- Melanie, Hey, your one of mine, cuzz (through Thomas Jefferson Rhodes)! My experience is that when a couple in those days were married by a J.P. it is evidence that the couple was of two different denominations. As for the spoken language, I think that German was spoken among most German descendants until as late as the 1870s based on German language tombstones in Montgomery Co. I know that the Evangelical Lutheran (aka German) churches had German language preaching until the 1930s. High schools in rural areas (e.g. Brookville) had German courses that ended with WW I when Germany started the war. When the citizens of Brookville demanded the school stop all German courses, the school officials refused. Whereupon the citizens stormed the school and burned the books. Roger Rhoads ------------------------

Do the Brethren records mention a John Brower, who was a minister of the gospel in Miami Valley, OH during the early 1800s? He married a couple I'm researching, in Preble County, OH, 1827. The PrebleCounty books indicate he was originally licensed to perform marriages in Montgomery County, OH. Are there any records of his being a minister in the Brethren church? What about marriage records? Could the marriages he performed be indexed anywhere? I've done a quick search of the Brethren archives at Rootsweb, and found several references to this John. Those posts don't discuss his service as a minister, but his genealogy. It looks like he married a Miller, and that he died in 1842. Thank you! Melanie Rice Denver, Colo.