Yep, Sixth Cousin Bob.... Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Harter" <rharter36@myfairpoint.net> To: brethren@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 7:02:56 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s For what it is worth, Catherine and Hanna Lesh's mother was Hanna (Anna) Harter, daughter of Adam Harter and Esther Hardman. Adam was brother of my great-great-great-great grandfather. In addition, John Brower married Rebecca Harter, daughter of Christian Harter, another brother. Bob Harter ----- Original Message ----- From: <captainlaser@comcast.net> To: <cliff@nwwnet.net>; <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s > Merle, > > My ggrandfather Lewis Hoff married Catherine Lesh in Preble Co. in 1834 > and his brother Solomon married Hannah Lesh in the same year. > > The minister was John Brower. He shows up in the marriage records as very > active. I cannot remember where the marriage record book is (County Office > in Eaton, or at the Preble County Historical Society in Eaton, OH). > > > The marriage records are on line.... > http://www.pcdl.lib.oh.us/marriage/details.cfm?ID=12098 > > > > > Ray > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Merle Rummel" <cliff@nwwnet.net> > To: brethren@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:31:52 PM > Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s > > Do the Brethren records mention a John Brower, who was a minister of the > gospel in Miami Valley, OH during the early 1800s? > > He married a couple I'm researching, in Preble County, OH, 1827. The > PrebleCounty books indicate he was originally licensed to perform > marriages in Montgomery County, OH. > > Are there any records of his being a minister in the Brethren church? > > ***************** > > John Brower (1786-1842) was the son of Enoch Brower, grandson of the > immigrant, Christian Brower > his mother was Frances Veronica Eikenberry - grandfather Peter > Eichenberg > he was married to Hannah Miller (1795-1856), dau of Daivd Miller and Mary > Eikenberry > > His family researchers list him as a minister of the German Baptist > Brethren (the name was taken officially only in 1830) > He was born possibly at the Coventry Church, Chester PA, and some list him > as dying in Rockingham Co VA. > Hannah died in Allen Co OH (near Lima) - where a couple of the children > lived - so he might have been out here before he died.. > > I have other Browers in Preble Co - and sons John - but none other have > the > given death date. I haven't followed his children - 2 of them were listed > as dying in Allen Co OH, one went on to N Manchester IN, one to Iowa and > one to Oregon. Your John could have been here during the given times. > > I had a Daniel Brower (cousin of your John) as an early Elder here at the > Four Mile Church (Indiana side of the line - Daniel lived on the Ohio side > of the State Line Road - Preble Co - but his son, John, was not a preacher > and was too late for your period). [A descendent ("Butch" Brower) lived > next door to me here in Boston IN - now is retired, living east of town.] > > Merle C Rummel > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Merle, My ggrandfather Lewis Hoff married Catherine Lesh in Preble Co. in 1834 and his brother Solomon married Hannah Lesh in the same year. The minister was John Brower. He shows up in the marriage records as very active. I cannot remember where the marriage record book is (County Office in Eaton, or at the Preble County Historical Society in Eaton, OH). The marriage records are on line.... http://www.pcdl.lib.oh.us/marriage/details.cfm?ID=12098 Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle Rummel" <cliff@nwwnet.net> To: brethren@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:31:52 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s Do the Brethren records mention a John Brower, who was a minister of the gospel in Miami Valley, OH during the early 1800s? He married a couple I'm researching, in Preble County, OH, 1827. The PrebleCounty books indicate he was originally licensed to perform marriages in Montgomery County, OH. Are there any records of his being a minister in the Brethren church? ***************** John Brower (1786-1842) was the son of Enoch Brower, grandson of the immigrant, Christian Brower his mother was Frances Veronica Eikenberry - grandfather Peter Eichenberg he was married to Hannah Miller (1795-1856), dau of Daivd Miller and Mary Eikenberry His family researchers list him as a minister of the German Baptist Brethren (the name was taken officially only in 1830) He was born possibly at the Coventry Church, Chester PA, and some list him as dying in Rockingham Co VA. Hannah died in Allen Co OH (near Lima) - where a couple of the children lived - so he might have been out here before he died.. I have other Browers in Preble Co - and sons John - but none other have the given death date. I haven't followed his children - 2 of them were listed as dying in Allen Co OH, one went on to N Manchester IN, one to Iowa and one to Oregon. Your John could have been here during the given times. I had a Daniel Brower (cousin of your John) as an early Elder here at the Four Mile Church (Indiana side of the line - Daniel lived on the Ohio side of the State Line Road - Preble Co - but his son, John, was not a preacher and was too late for your period). [A descendent ("Butch" Brower) lived next door to me here in Boston IN - now is retired, living east of town.] Merle C Rummel ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, VAcirca 1800. LOTS of them. All of my father's ancestors were in Rockingham Co, VA [which split off Augusta in 1778] in the 1700s. Of his 8 GGPs, one was raised Presbyterian, 2 German Reformed, 1 Mennonite and 4 German Baptist. Thom Flory -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 10:32 pm Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow Thank you, Lynn. Yes, that book has been helpful. I can't figure out why two couples married in the Scot-Irish Presbyterian church would become German Baptists when they relocated to OH. I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, VA circa 1800. Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Lynn Sewell <lbsewell@frontiernet.net>wrote: > Melanine, I have two comments. Are you familiar with the book which is on > the internet. Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia. This > may help you with your questions. > > Also my father was raised a Mennonite and while my father and mother were > dating he took her to church which was all in German Swiss. So German was > definitely spoken in some areas until 1920. It was my mother's family that > has the German Brethren roots. > > Lynn Sewell > -----Original Message----- > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Melanie Rice > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:21 PM > To: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com > Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > Thank you, Gale. > > I believe our Sherow's had connections in Montgomery, Darke and Preble > counties, OH. > > I belive Elizabeth Sherow, who owned land in Union and Concorde townships, > Miami County, OH - was a sister to Margaret Weickle Andrew, of Montgomery > County, OH. > > Margaret Weickle married Samuel Andrew, in Augusta County, VA. This is > also > where John (sr) Sherow married Elizabeth Weickle (Sherow). These marriages > were in a Presbyterian congregation in a Scot-Irish area. At least these > two couples migrated from Augusta County, VA to Miami Valley, Ohio ca 1810. > > John (sr) and Elizabeth Sherow had at least one son, John. This John > married Susannah Young. The couple had at least 13 children. It looks > like > the whole family moved to Marshall County, Indiana between 1840 and 1843. > > I'm trying to understand why two couples living in a Scot-Irish area and > married in a Presbyterian church - would relocate to OH, and possibly > become > part of German Baptist congregations. And - hoping this digging will give > clues of where to find more information. > > Melanie > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > > > Melanie, > > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The > > Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the > > Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a > > pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties > > who had no connections with the church. > > Gale > > > > > > ------------------------ Search the Archives > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Melanine, I have two comments. Are you familiar with the book which is on the internet. Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia. This may help you with your questions. Also my father was raised a Mennonite and while my father and mother were dating he took her to church which was all in German Swiss. So German was definitely spoken in some areas until 1920. It was my mother's family that has the German Brethren roots. Lynn Sewell -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Rice Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:21 PM To: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow Thank you, Gale. I believe our Sherow's had connections in Montgomery, Darke and Preble counties, OH. I belive Elizabeth Sherow, who owned land in Union and Concorde townships, Miami County, OH - was a sister to Margaret Weickle Andrew, of Montgomery County, OH. Margaret Weickle married Samuel Andrew, in Augusta County, VA. This is also where John (sr) Sherow married Elizabeth Weickle (Sherow). These marriages were in a Presbyterian congregation in a Scot-Irish area. At least these two couples migrated from Augusta County, VA to Miami Valley, Ohio ca 1810. John (sr) and Elizabeth Sherow had at least one son, John. This John married Susannah Young. The couple had at least 13 children. It looks like the whole family moved to Marshall County, Indiana between 1840 and 1843. I'm trying to understand why two couples living in a Scot-Irish area and married in a Presbyterian church - would relocate to OH, and possibly become part of German Baptist congregations. And - hoping this digging will give clues of where to find more information. Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > Melanie, > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The > Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the > Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a > pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties > who had no connections with the church. > Gale > > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Thom! Are you aware if there was any group migration (of Brethren folks) from Rockingham / Augusta, VA to the Miami Valley in OH about 1810? Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:39 PM, Thom <thomasflory@aol.com> wrote: > > >I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, > VAcirca 1800. > LOTS of them. All of my father's ancestors were in Rockingham Co, VA > [which split off Augusta in 1778] in the 1700s. Of his 8 GGPs, one was > raised Presbyterian, 2 German Reformed, 1 Mennonite and 4 German Baptist. > > Thom Flory > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 10:32 pm > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > Thank you, Lynn. > > Yes, that book has been helpful. > > I can't figure out why two couples married in the Scot-Irish Presbyterian > church would become German Baptists when they relocated to OH. > > I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, VA > circa 1800. > > Melanie > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Lynn Sewell <lbsewell@frontiernet.net > >wrote: > > > Melanine, I have two comments. Are you familiar with the book which is > on > > the internet. Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia. > This > > may help you with your questions. > > > > Also my father was raised a Mennonite and while my father and mother were > > dating he took her to church which was all in German Swiss. So German > was > > definitely spoken in some areas until 1920. It was my mother's family > that > > has the German Brethren roots. > > > > Lynn Sewell > > -----Original Message----- > > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > On Behalf Of Melanie Rice > > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:21 PM > > To: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com > > Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > > Thank you, Gale. > > > > I believe our Sherow's had connections in Montgomery, Darke and Preble > > counties, OH. > > > > I belive Elizabeth Sherow, who owned land in Union and Concorde > townships, > > Miami County, OH - was a sister to Margaret Weickle Andrew, of Montgomery > > County, OH. > > > > Margaret Weickle married Samuel Andrew, in Augusta County, VA. This is > > also > > where John (sr) Sherow married Elizabeth Weickle (Sherow). These > marriages > > were in a Presbyterian congregation in a Scot-Irish area. At least these > > two couples migrated from Augusta County, VA to Miami Valley, Ohio ca > 1810. > > > > John (sr) and Elizabeth Sherow had at least one son, John. This John > > married Susannah Young. The couple had at least 13 children. It looks > > like > > the whole family moved to Marshall County, Indiana between 1840 and 1843. > > > > I'm trying to understand why two couples living in a Scot-Irish area and > > married in a Presbyterian church - would relocate to OH, and possibly > > become > > part of German Baptist congregations. And - hoping this digging will > give > > clues of where to find more information. > > > > Melanie > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > Melanie, > > > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The > > > Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the > > > Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a > > > pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties > > > who had no connections with the church. > > > Gale > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Search the > Archives > > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you, Lynn. Yes, that book has been helpful. I can't figure out why two couples married in the Scot-Irish Presbyterian church would become German Baptists when they relocated to OH. I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, VA circa 1800. Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Lynn Sewell <lbsewell@frontiernet.net>wrote: > Melanine, I have two comments. Are you familiar with the book which is on > the internet. Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia. This > may help you with your questions. > > Also my father was raised a Mennonite and while my father and mother were > dating he took her to church which was all in German Swiss. So German was > definitely spoken in some areas until 1920. It was my mother's family that > has the German Brethren roots. > > Lynn Sewell > -----Original Message----- > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Melanie Rice > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:21 PM > To: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com > Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > Thank you, Gale. > > I believe our Sherow's had connections in Montgomery, Darke and Preble > counties, OH. > > I belive Elizabeth Sherow, who owned land in Union and Concorde townships, > Miami County, OH - was a sister to Margaret Weickle Andrew, of Montgomery > County, OH. > > Margaret Weickle married Samuel Andrew, in Augusta County, VA. This is > also > where John (sr) Sherow married Elizabeth Weickle (Sherow). These marriages > were in a Presbyterian congregation in a Scot-Irish area. At least these > two couples migrated from Augusta County, VA to Miami Valley, Ohio ca 1810. > > John (sr) and Elizabeth Sherow had at least one son, John. This John > married Susannah Young. The couple had at least 13 children. It looks > like > the whole family moved to Marshall County, Indiana between 1840 and 1843. > > I'm trying to understand why two couples living in a Scot-Irish area and > married in a Presbyterian church - would relocate to OH, and possibly > become > part of German Baptist congregations. And - hoping this digging will give > clues of where to find more information. > > Melanie > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > > > Melanie, > > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The > > Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the > > Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a > > pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties > > who had no connections with the church. > > Gale > > > > > > ------------------------ Search the Archives > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you, Gale. I believe our Sherow's had connections in Montgomery, Darke and Preble counties, OH. I belive Elizabeth Sherow, who owned land in Union and Concorde townships, Miami County, OH - was a sister to Margaret Weickle Andrew, of Montgomery County, OH. Margaret Weickle married Samuel Andrew, in Augusta County, VA. This is also where John (sr) Sherow married Elizabeth Weickle (Sherow). These marriages were in a Presbyterian congregation in a Scot-Irish area. At least these two couples migrated from Augusta County, VA to Miami Valley, Ohio ca 1810. John (sr) and Elizabeth Sherow had at least one son, John. This John married Susannah Young. The couple had at least 13 children. It looks like the whole family moved to Marshall County, Indiana between 1840 and 1843. I'm trying to understand why two couples living in a Scot-Irish area and married in a Presbyterian church - would relocate to OH, and possibly become part of German Baptist congregations. And - hoping this digging will give clues of where to find more information. Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > Melanie, > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The Dunker > minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the Brush Creek > branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre 1850's Dunker > minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had no connections > with the church. > Gale > >

Of possible additional interest, Rev. John Brower's sister, Elizabeth (Betsy) Brower married John's brother-in-law, Rev. Joseph Harter,.and in 1836 they moved to Wabash County, Indiana. According to the Wabash County History Bicentennial Edition, 1976, "Joseph Harter, Sr., was the first resident preacher, elder, and moderator of the German Baptist Church (Dunkard) and preached in German." This would be referring to the North Manchester Church of the Brethren. John and Elizabeth were children of John Brower Sr. (1758-1812) and Mary Magdalene Titelow (1760 - 1845). Their brother, Abraham Brower also married a Harter, Elizabeth, daughter of George Harter and Magdalena Kitterman. George was another brother of Rev. John Brower's father-in-law. Bob Harter

Were there 2 John Brower's who were German Baptist ministers? I could have misinterpreted things, but it looks like there are 2 different lineages given for him here. The first lists him as a son of Enoch Brower and Frances Veronica Eikenberry, and husband to Hannah Miller, who died in Allen County, OH circa 1856. The second lists him as a son of John Brower, Sr. (grandson of immigrant, Christian Brower), and Mary Magdalene Titelow. Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Bob Harter <rharter36@myfairpoint.net>wrote: > Of possible additional interest, Rev. John Brower's sister, Elizabeth > (Betsy) Brower married John's brother-in-law, Rev. Joseph Harter,.and in > 1836 they moved to Wabash County, Indiana. According to the Wabash County > History Bicentennial Edition, 1976, "Joseph Harter, Sr., was the first > resident preacher, elder, and moderator of the German Baptist Church > (Dunkard) and preached in German." This would be referring to the North > Manchester Church of the Brethren. > John and Elizabeth were children of John Brower Sr. (1758-1812) and Mary > Magdalene Titelow (1760 - 1845). Their brother, Abraham Brower also married > a Harter, Elizabeth, daughter of George Harter and Magdalena Kitterman. > George was another brother of Rev. John Brower's father-in-law. > > Bob Harter > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you. Also - Family Search has an index of early marriage licenses for Preble Co, OH that lists the ministers: https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE109268 And - scanned images of the actual records: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19359-20084-58?cc=1614804&wc=M94Q-KLG:n1575376209 On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 4:01 PM, <captainlaser@comcast.net> wrote: > Merle, > > My ggrandfather Lewis Hoff married Catherine Lesh in Preble Co. in 1834 > and his brother Solomon married Hannah Lesh in the same year. > > The minister was John Brower. He shows up in the marriage records as very > active. I cannot remember where the marriage record book is (County Office > in Eaton, or at the Preble County Historical Society in Eaton, OH). > > > The marriage records are on line.... > http://www.pcdl.lib.oh.us/marriage/details.cfm?ID=12098 > > > > > Ray > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Merle Rummel" <cliff@nwwnet.net> > To: brethren@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:31:52 PM > Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s > > Do the Brethren records mention a John Brower, who was a minister of the > gospel in Miami Valley, OH during the early 1800s? > > He married a couple I'm researching, in Preble County, OH, 1827. The > PrebleCounty books indicate he was originally licensed to perform > marriages in Montgomery County, OH. > > Are there any records of his being a minister in the Brethren church? > > ***************** > > John Brower (1786-1842) was the son of Enoch Brower, grandson of the > immigrant, Christian Brower > his mother was Frances Veronica Eikenberry - grandfather Peter > Eichenberg > he was married to Hannah Miller (1795-1856), dau of Daivd Miller and Mary > Eikenberry > > His family researchers list him as a minister of the German Baptist > Brethren (the name was taken officially only in 1830) > He was born possibly at the Coventry Church, Chester PA, and some list him > as dying in Rockingham Co VA. > Hannah died in Allen Co OH (near Lima) - where a couple of the children > lived - so he might have been out here before he died.. > > I have other Browers in Preble Co - and sons John - but none other have the > given death date. I haven't followed his children - 2 of them were listed > as dying in Allen Co OH, one went on to N Manchester IN, one to Iowa and > one to Oregon. Your John could have been here during the given times. > > I had a Daniel Brower (cousin of your John) as an early Elder here at the > Four Mile Church (Indiana side of the line - Daniel lived on the Ohio side > of the State Line Road - Preble Co - but his son, John, was not a preacher > and was too late for your period). [A descendent ("Butch" Brower) lived > next door to me here in Boston IN - now is retired, living east of town.] > > Merle C Rummel > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

So, based on your knowledge of the early German Baptists in the Miami Valley, Ohio - may I conclude that a couple married by John Brower would have been of German Baptist families? Would a German Baptist minister of that era have been likely to marry a couple who was not of their faith? I know there were few if any church buildings in Miami County, OH in the first 20 or so years of European settlement. So, would a couple of another branch of Christianity have asked a German Baptist minister to marry them - if there were no other minister in the area? I ask this to try to establish the origin of the Sherow family, found in Miami County, OH circa 1810 - 1843. On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Bob Harter <rharter36@myfairpoint.net>wrote: > Of possible additional interest, Rev. John Brower's sister, Elizabeth > (Betsy) Brower married John's brother-in-law, Rev. Joseph Harter,.and in > 1836 they moved to Wabash County, Indiana. According to the Wabash County > History Bicentennial Edition, 1976, "Joseph Harter, Sr., was the first > resident preacher, elder, and moderator of the German Baptist Church > (Dunkard) and preached in German." This would be referring to the North > Manchester Church of the Brethren. > John and Elizabeth were children of John Brower Sr. (1758-1812) and Mary > Magdalene Titelow (1760 - 1845). Their brother, Abraham Brower also married > a Harter, Elizabeth, daughter of George Harter and Magdalena Kitterman. > George was another brother of Rev. John Brower's father-in-law. > > Bob Harter > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On page 167 the "History of the Church of the Brethren in Southern Ohio, 1708 - 1920" includes a bio on Rev. John Brower (6 Sept 1783 - 27 Apr 1863). He would have been licensed in Montgomery County because Preble County was not split off until 1808. However, so far as I know the family always lived in the area that became Preble County. Bob Harter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle Rummel" <cliff@nwwnet.net> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s > Do the Brethren records mention a John Brower, who was a minister of the > gospel in Miami Valley, OH during the early 1800s? > > He married a couple I'm researching, in Preble County, OH, 1827. The > PrebleCounty books indicate he was originally licensed to perform > marriages in Montgomery County, OH. > > Are there any records of his being a minister in the Brethren church? > > *****************

This is wonderful information. Do you know if the book you reference is available for purchase? "History of the Church of the Brethren in Southern Ohio, 1708 - 1920" Also, is there a recommended book that chronicles the early history of the Miami Valley? Thank you! On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 5:25 PM, Bob Harter <rharter36@myfairpoint.net>wrote: > On page 167 the "History of the Church of the Brethren in Southern Ohio, > 1708 - 1920" includes a bio on Rev. John Brower (6 Sept 1783 - 27 Apr > 1863). > He would have been licensed in Montgomery County because Preble County was > not split off until 1808. However, so far as I know the family always lived > in the area that became Preble County. > > Bob Harter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Merle Rummel" <cliff@nwwnet.net> > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:31 PM > Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s > > > > Do the Brethren records mention a John Brower, who was a minister of the > > gospel in Miami Valley, OH during the early 1800s? > > > > He married a couple I'm researching, in Preble County, OH, 1827. The > > PrebleCounty books indicate he was originally licensed to perform > > marriages in Montgomery County, OH. > > > > Are there any records of his being a minister in the Brethren church? > > > > ***************** > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

For what it is worth, Catherine and Hanna Lesh's mother was Hanna (Anna) Harter, daughter of Adam Harter and Esther Hardman. Adam was brother of my great-great-great-great grandfather. In addition, John Brower married Rebecca Harter, daughter of Christian Harter, another brother. Bob Harter ----- Original Message ----- From: <captainlaser@comcast.net> To: <cliff@nwwnet.net>; <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s > Merle, > > My ggrandfather Lewis Hoff married Catherine Lesh in Preble Co. in 1834 > and his brother Solomon married Hannah Lesh in the same year. > > The minister was John Brower. He shows up in the marriage records as very > active. I cannot remember where the marriage record book is (County Office > in Eaton, or at the Preble County Historical Society in Eaton, OH). > > > The marriage records are on line.... > http://www.pcdl.lib.oh.us/marriage/details.cfm?ID=12098 > > > > > Ray > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Merle Rummel" <cliff@nwwnet.net> > To: brethren@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:31:52 PM > Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s > > Do the Brethren records mention a John Brower, who was a minister of the > gospel in Miami Valley, OH during the early 1800s? > > He married a couple I'm researching, in Preble County, OH, 1827. The > PrebleCounty books indicate he was originally licensed to perform > marriages in Montgomery County, OH. > > Are there any records of his being a minister in the Brethren church? > > ***************** > > John Brower (1786-1842) was the son of Enoch Brower, grandson of the > immigrant, Christian Brower > his mother was Frances Veronica Eikenberry - grandfather Peter > Eichenberg > he was married to Hannah Miller (1795-1856), dau of Daivd Miller and Mary > Eikenberry > > His family researchers list him as a minister of the German Baptist > Brethren (the name was taken officially only in 1830) > He was born possibly at the Coventry Church, Chester PA, and some list him > as dying in Rockingham Co VA. > Hannah died in Allen Co OH (near Lima) - where a couple of the children > lived - so he might have been out here before he died.. > > I have other Browers in Preble Co - and sons John - but none other have > the > given death date. I haven't followed his children - 2 of them were listed > as dying in Allen Co OH, one went on to N Manchester IN, one to Iowa and > one to Oregon. Your John could have been here during the given times. > > I had a Daniel Brower (cousin of your John) as an early Elder here at the > Four Mile Church (Indiana side of the line - Daniel lived on the Ohio side > of the State Line Road - Preble Co - but his son, John, was not a preacher > and was too late for your period). [A descendent ("Butch" Brower) lived > next door to me here in Boston IN - now is retired, living east of town.] > > Merle C Rummel > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

When my now wife and I were planning on marrying in Ohio 1969. My wife had attended a non-denominational church in the country and she said she would like to get married there. We drove out to the church and talked with the minister. He refused to marry us because my wife had been married and divorced, On the way back to town we discussed what our options were. One of those options was a JP. Thanks, Dave In a message dated 2/13/2014 2:14:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mjrice.denver@gmail.com writes: So many things changed as our country developed and churches of many denominations were planted. However, in 1800 - 1840, Miami Valley, Ohio - things were quite different. I'm wanting to specifically explore the cultural norms among DunkardBrethren / German Baptist folks in that time and place, hoping to get clues for further research on my elusive Sherows. Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:43 AM, JFlorian <cageycat@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:03 AM, Shirley Frick <slsf74@emypeople.net> > wrote: > > > > > And then........in the late 20's, 30's and still in the mid 40's many > > couples were married in the bride's home with just family and the > minister. > > They didn't have much money, but to me it seemed better then going > > off to some JOP to be married. > > ======= > Home marriages became a norm in many families, not just in Brethren > families, at least between (at minimum 1900-1940s. On my Washington Co PA > website (freepages+genealogy at rootsweb.com, see > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/ ), "at home" > weddings were extremely common. > > I don't think it was as much an issue of money or not, but instead a bridal > trend, just like brides sometimes wore suits (skirt, blouse, jacket) or at > least changed to a "traveling suit" after the wedding. As well, as more > people owned cars, a 'motor trip honeymoon' through two or more states was > very common. You can look at bridal trend websites to get an idea about > influences on brides, their attire, wedding dress, and wedding location. > JP marriages were not at all uncommon, even in a town full of churches, > across all faiths, or as Shirley indicated, home weddings with their > minister officiating. Google any year+officiated or officiating and you > should find plentiful examples of home weddings. Also, many wedding > notices were less than a paragraph...many only a few paragraphs... in many > small town papers, these were Editor's choices, not subscriber choices. > > All that said, I cannot say that Brethren married more by JP or Minister. > And JP ("the law") would be more prevalent in newer settlements 1800s, but > would depend most on location post-1900 (or just before). As well, young > brides age 13-15 were not uncommon still in 1900-1940s at least in SW PA > where couples just crossed into WVA to marry (at churches or JPs). > > Judy > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My grandfather's mother spoke "Dutch" with her sisters - after he came to live with us, he wanted to teach me German - but I didn't want to be "different" - am sorry now. Down in Kentucky - speaking of one of the early Brethren ministers [ Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 Jacob Eversole -wife Mary Kessler] - it was said - He only preached in German, and no one could understand him - but "he was almighty inspiring!" Merle C Rummel ---------------------------------------- I can't speak to preaching but my grandfather, who was born in 1880, once told me that all his aunts spoke German. I understood this to be saying that they did not use or understand English. His father (Henry Baker) was pastor of the West Branch (Palestine) church in Darke County until his death in 1918. Did he preach in German? I don't know, but considering that his sisters and sisters-in-law apparently spoke only German it is possible that he preached in both German and English even at that late date. I very much doubt, however, that he preached only in German.

Do the Brethren records mention a John Brower, who was a minister of the gospel in Miami Valley, OH during the early 1800s? He married a couple I'm researching, in Preble County, OH, 1827. The PrebleCounty books indicate he was originally licensed to perform marriages in Montgomery County, OH. Are there any records of his being a minister in the Brethren church? ***************** John Brower (1786-1842) was the son of Enoch Brower, grandson of the immigrant, Christian Brower his mother was Frances Veronica Eikenberry - grandfather Peter Eichenberg he was married to Hannah Miller (1795-1856), dau of Daivd Miller and Mary Eikenberry His family researchers list him as a minister of the German Baptist Brethren (the name was taken officially only in 1830) He was born possibly at the Coventry Church, Chester PA, and some list him as dying in Rockingham Co VA. Hannah died in Allen Co OH (near Lima) - where a couple of the children lived - so he might have been out here before he died.. I have other Browers in Preble Co - and sons John - but none other have the given death date. I haven't followed his children - 2 of them were listed as dying in Allen Co OH, one went on to N Manchester IN, one to Iowa and one to Oregon. Your John could have been here during the given times. I had a Daniel Brower (cousin of your John) as an early Elder here at the Four Mile Church (Indiana side of the line - Daniel lived on the Ohio side of the State Line Road - Preble Co - but his son, John, was not a preacher and was too late for your period). [A descendent ("Butch" Brower) lived next door to me here in Boston IN - now is retired, living east of town.] Merle C Rummel

When his children and grandchildren babbled and couldn't be understood as they were learning to talk, my dad always said they were speaking Dutch. He was of Brethren and recent German descent. On 2/13/2014 4:38 PM, Merle Rummel wrote: > My grandfather's mother spoke "Dutch" with her sisters - after he came to > live with us, he wanted to teach me German - but I didn't want to be > "different" - am sorry now. > > Down in Kentucky - speaking of one of the early Brethren ministers [ > Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE > > MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 > Jacob Eversole -wife Mary Kessler] > > > > > > - it was said - He only preached in German, and no one could > understand him - but "he was almighty inspiring!" > > Merle C Rummel > > ---------------------------------------- > > I can't speak to preaching but my grandfather, who was born in 1880, once > told me that all his aunts spoke German. I understood this to be saying > that > they did not use or understand English. His father (Henry Baker) was pastor > > of the West Branch (Palestine) church in Darke County until his death in > 1918. Did he preach in German? I don't know, but considering that his > sisters and sisters-in-law apparently spoke only German it is possible that > > he preached in both German and English even at that late date. I very much > > doubt, however, that he preached only in German. > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I use the term Brethren and German Baptist as one in the same below. The terms Brethren, German Baptist, Dunker and Tunker mean the same. United Brethren is not associated with these terms, and was a completely different denomination, though it was of German heritage. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Thomas Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:26 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions Melanie....in response to your two questions below: Yes... speaking English wouldn't necessarily mean church services would be in English.....I'm talking early 19th Century. Early Brethren ministers were seldom licensed by the state, so you wouldn't want a Brethren minister marrying you if you were not Brethren. Brethren were a tiny minority of the population even among those of German heritage, and there would have been Lutheran, United Brethren and Reformed pastors that could also marry you, who were also more likely to be licensed. Emmert Bittinger explains early Brethren marriage customs in his book 'Allegheny Passage' (page 82). However, it was not unheard of for German Baptists to be married by Lutherans or other ministers, although it was frowned upon, and often harshly. The customs of the latter 19th Century don't have much relevance with those of the early 19th and 18th Century. The church in general became far more progressive as the decades progressed, leading to divisions in some cases by the more conservative/traditional German Baptists. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Rice Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:10 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions Thank you, Bill. If I understand correctly, it is possible that Brethren church members may have spoken both English and German, but the church may have used German in the early 1800s? WOULD a Brethren minister have married a couple who were not of that faith? For example, in more remote areas where there were not nearby churches - if a minister passed through the area, would he have been likely to marry couples wishing to marry, regardless of their faith? I'm trying to understand if a marriage by a Brethren minister is a strong indicator that the couple were both from Brethren families.

Melanie....in response to your two questions below: Yes... speaking English wouldn't necessarily mean church services would be in English.....I'm talking early 19th Century. Early Brethren ministers were seldom licensed by the state, so you wouldn't want a Brethren minister marrying you if you were not Brethren. Brethren were a tiny minority of the population even among those of German heritage, and there would have been Lutheran, United Brethren and Reformed pastors that could also marry you, who were also more likely to be licensed. Emmert Bittinger explains early Brethren marriage customs in his book 'Allegheny Passage' (page 82). However, it was not unheard of for German Baptists to be married by Lutherans or other ministers, although it was frowned upon, and often harshly. The customs of the latter 19th Century don't have much relevance with those of the early 19th and 18th Century. The church in general became far more progressive as the decades progressed, leading to divisions in some cases by the more conservative/traditional German Baptists. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Rice Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:10 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] German Baptist marriage record questions Thank you, Bill. If I understand correctly, it is possible that Brethren church members may have spoken both English and German, but the church may have used German in the early 1800s? WOULD a Brethren minister have married a couple who were not of that faith? For example, in more remote areas where there were not nearby churches - if a minister passed through the area, would he have been likely to marry couples wishing to marry, regardless of their faith? I'm trying to understand if a marriage by a Brethren minister is a strong indicator that the couple were both from Brethren families.