Thank you - all of you - for the excellent suggestions and information. This should keep me busy digging for a long time. I would still like a couple of suggestions for books that would provide a general overview of early Brethren history, and hopefully some insight into what their daily lives were like. Melanie

Dave, I'm so glad that you pointed this out. I heard that this same thing happened to couple about 25 years ago at the COB where I was attending. The woman had been attending our services but was not a member. She was divorced with older children. When she wanted to marry again our pastor wouldn't perform the service...... I'm sure that this is just another reason some couples were married by JPs. Another point, at least in the early 1800s Quaker community, if only one of the couple was a member, they ended up being married by a JP or sometimes a minister of another denomination. Pat Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:58:20 -0500 (EST) From:DESloan@aol.com Subject: Re: [BRE] couple married by JOP When my now wife and I were planning on marrying in Ohio 1969. My wife had attended a non-denominational church in the country and she said she would like to get married there. We drove out to the church and talked with the minister. He refused to marry us because my wife had been married and divorced, On the way back to town we discussed what our options were. One of those options was a JP. Thanks, Dave

Elder Philip Younce was a son of John Jans. He wasn't a Young or a Jundt (Yount). I'm trying to remember if it was said of him that he preached in English. He probably did, at least later, since he travelled a wide circuit in western Ohio, preaching to groups other than German Baptist. His wife, Margaret Burket Younce, was a midwife. You have wondered how people who were not formerly German Baptist may have become GB in west central Ohio. We have heard of it time and again on this list, of people settling among similar ethnic groups and forming new friendships and alliances. As isolated as these families were in the very early days, going to a preaching service would be highly anticipated. I suspect of a family couldn't find an example of the church left behind, they settled for as close as theycould get. I don't know about John Brower and whom he married, but I believe PhilipYounce followed GB procedures fairly closely. I have seen some letters of transfer he authored and/or signed. And I have read a lengthy transcript in which he agonized over his niece and her husband being unhappy with the way he disposed of her father's property as executor. He followed the usual and customary procedure, overseen by the court, but he didn't welcome even the smallest hint of misconduct. He was a serious man, per his grandson William H. Younts (who chose to misspell his surname.) One aspect that may not have been mentioned in discussing pastors and elders is that a "lead" elder was chosen prior to pastor days and was said to "have the oversight." You will see the term mentioned in Brethren histories. Sharon Mills ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Rice" <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> To: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 6:49:47 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow Gale, You said, *"The Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had no connections with the church."* Then, what of John Brower, who married many couples in Preble and I believe, Montgomery counties? Would that have been a different area of jurisdiction? Are you familiar with this John Brower? The Preble County early marriage records list him as performing a number of marriages. Also - am I correct in thinking YOUNCE was distinct from YOUNG at this time / place? Thank you, Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > Melanie, > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The Dunker > minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the Brush Creek > branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre 1850's Dunker > minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had no connections > with the church. > Gale > > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I apologize for asking this same question again. The first time, I quickly received 3 very helpful replies and then a long silence. I think somehow I was then disconnected from this list and maybe missed some information. As well, the recent discussion raises interesting issues and questions I would like to pursue. I am trying to identify the parents and origin of Charles and Mary (unknown) Roszel. Charles and his brother Joseph were taxpayers in Newton Twp., Sussex Co., New Jersey starting in 1774. Charles and Mary had 13 children, all born there, beginning in 1880. They moved to Lincoln Co. Upper Canada (near Smithville in Niagara region of Ontario now) in 1799. Charles reported on census his nationality was German and religion was "Tunker". There is indication Charles could read and write both German and English. Responding to my first questions, Mr. Rummel confirmed that there had been a migration of Dunkers and Mennonites to that area in Canada at that time and mentioned the Amwell Church in Hunterdon Co. New Jersey. Dave Sloan gave me a link to the Amwell Church and Dennis [orawhist?] informed me about "River Brethren". All very helpful. Thanks so much! Some researchers assume parents of Charles and his brother Joseph (Jr.?) were Joseph Roszel and Ann Alcott. This Joseph (Sr.?) and others in N.J. with this last name seem to descend from a Major (British likely) John Rossel who emigrated from England. Joseph Sr.'s father is thought to be a Zachariah Roszel but he has been found to have attended an Anglican Church and he is buried in the Anglican Cemetery. Is Alcott a Dunker name? In about the mid 1700s, a Roszel from N.J. migrated to Virginia near Washington DC outside Philomont, VA. His son, a young preacher, built an Anglican Chapel in their farm and was converted to Methodist when Anglicans were unwelcome after the American Revolution. The Roszell Chapel Methodist Church exists today in Philomont. Was Roszel a known Dunker name? I'm sceptical that an English speaking Anglican family, name spelled Rossel would morph into a German speaking Tunker family, name spelled Roszel. However, if that did happen, somewhere along the line someone converted from Anglican to Tunker. Was it common for others to convert to Tunker? Was it common for a husband to adopt his wife's beliefs? Regarding the spelling - is it possible that the "sz" in Roszel was originally the soft - g mentioned by Nancy Cripe? Did all the Dunkers come originally from the same group that started their faith in Schwarzenau, Germany? And did they emigrate to the New World over the same time period? There were German speaking people who had settled in other European countries, e.g. Poland, Russia, Ukraine and who became displaced persons after WW 1 and WW 2. Did these "colonies" exist in the 1700s and did any Dunkers come from these areas? About 5 years ago I met a Roszell whose family was from the area in Ohio originally settled by "Mound Indians". This Roszel wasn't into genealogy. I assumed that the connection was with the Philomont Roszels and not us. I've since lost contact. But last fall discussion on this list mentioned Dunkers had migrated to that area of Ohio. So again I wonder if there was a Dunker connection? Does anyone know if there were Roszels in that migration? Thanks to those discussing the Dunker migration on this list. I find it very interesting. Re: the one room school discussion from some time ago: I attended a one room school here in Raleigh Twp. now in the municipality of Chatham-Kent. We played "Eenie Ayenie Over" too but I thought it was a British game. Sincere thanks! Marc Roszell, Chatham, Ontario, Canada Sent from my iPad Marc Roszell > On Feb 14, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> wrote: > > Gale, > > You said, > *"The Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the > Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre > 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had > no connections with the church."* > > Then, what of John Brower, who married many couples in Preble and I > believe, Montgomery counties? Would that have been a different area of > jurisdiction? Are you familiar with this John Brower? The Preble County > early marriage records list him as performing a number of marriages. > > Also - am I correct in thinking YOUNCE was distinct from YOUNG at this time > / place? > > Thank you, > > Melanie > > > > >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: >> >> Melanie, >> Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The Dunker >> minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the Brush Creek >> branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre 1850's Dunker >> minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had no connections >> with the church. >> Gale > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I just saw this new the other day, and can add to the discussion:  http://www.wvencyclopedia.org/articles/2101 German Dunkards The Dunkards, sometimes called German Baptist Brethren and known as the Church of the Brethren since 1908, were formed in Schwarzenau, Germany, in 1708, and had spread to present West Virginia within a half-century. This sect of pacifist Protestant dissenters is similar to the Mennonite, Amish, and Moravian denominations and is the parent of the Old German Baptist Brethren (1882), Dunkard Brethren (1926), Grace Brethren (1939), and related sects. The name ‘‘Dunkards’’ originates from the practice of dunking believers three times forward during baptism. Their primary beliefs include adult baptism, foot washing at communion, and a generally conservative lifestyle. Today, there are about 80 active Brethren and Dunkard congregations in West Virginia, mostly in the Potomac Highlands region, with a few scattered churches across the rest of the state. Numerous towns in Grant, Hampshire, and Hardy counties are named for Brethren individuals or families, most of whom still have descendants in the area. The Arnold, Bane, Hinkle, Keyser, Kline, Landis, Leatherman, Martin, Moser, Peterson, Powers, Rotruck, and Teter families are among those prominent in the history of West Virginia Brethren. Early members emigrated mainly from Germany and Switzerland due to intense persecution at the onset of the 1700s. First settling in Pennsylvania, they helped populate the entire Alleghenies, particularly along tributaries of the Potomac River. The first white settlers west of the Alleghenies were the Dunkard Eckerlin brothers. These three men had been leaders of a cloister at Ephrata, Pennsylvania, but left after complaints that they were stern taskmasters. Along with Alexander Mack Jr., they next settled on the New River at Pulaski, Virginia. In 1756, having sold their land at that site, the brothers traveled to the Monongahela River, settling along the Cheat River at present Camp Dawson, near Kingwood. This settlement was called Dunkard’s Bottom. Suspected by harried settlements along the South Branch of the Potomac of being in sympathy with French and Indian forces, Samuel Eckerlin was detained while on a supply trip to Fort Pleasant, near present Moorefield. It was decided that a small party should accompany him to the Dunkard settlement for investigation. Among these were Frederick Ice, who established Ices Ferry in 1759, and Thomas Decker, who settled at present Morgantown in 1758. They discovered that French and Indian forces had attacked the settlement, killing everyone except the two Eckerlin brothers, who were captured. Brother Israel died quickly in captivity, but Gabriel was sent by the French to Europe, where he died in a French monastery. This Article was written by Greg Leatherman Related Articles     Religion Sources Brumbaugh, Martin. A History of the German Baptist Brethren in Europe and America. Mt. Morris: Brethren Pub. House, 1961. Wust, Klaus. The Saint-Adventurers of the Virginia Frontier. Edinburg, VA: Shenandoah History Pub., 1977. Cite This Article Leatherman, Greg "German Dunkards." e-WV: The West Virginia Encyclopedia. 17 October 2011. Web. 14 February 2014. User Comments

I'll have to wing this and let others correct my errors. Many of the people in Flat Rock, Shenandoah Co, VA may have come from Beaver Dam (I think Frederick Co) MD. Pacifists did not fare well in MD during the American Revolution, and a number fled to the Shenandoah Valley, VA. Prior to Beaver Dam most of these people had been in PA, likely Lancaster Co. The PA Dutch (German speakers) mostly entered America through Philadelphia, proceeding to Lancaster, and when attempting to proceed further hit mountains which deflected many of them southward down the Great Valley through MD into VA. Thom -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 14, 2014 6:47 pm Subject: Re: [BRE] Rockingham Co, VA to OH Thank you, Thom. You said: *"...the German Baptists only arrived in Rockingham / Augusta in 1790. The first (I think) GB community in Virginia was at Flat Rock, in Shenandoah Co immediately north of Rockingham."* Where did they migrate from? Is there one good book that you or one of the others could recommend, that would help me get a good overview of the history and dispersion (in the US,) of the early Brethren? Melanie On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Thom <thomasflory@aol.com> wrote: > > There was lots of migration from the Rockingham Co, VA area [including > Augusta, Paige and other nearby counties] circa 1810. Not sure how much of > it was German Baptists, as the German Baptists only arrived in Rockingham / > Augusta in 1790. The first (I think) GB community in Virginia was at Flat > Rock, in Shenandoah Co immediately north of Rockingham. In 1790 my 3GGPs > John Flory & Catherine GARBER and her brother Samuel (I think that's the > right one) GARBER left Flat Rock and established the Cooks Creek GB > community in Rockingham (near Dayton). My 4GGPs SEITZ/SITES moved from > Rockingham, VA to Fairfield, OH in 1809 along with many others from > Rockingham, VA but I don't think these were GB. Meanwhile my GB 4GGF > Abraham FLORA/FLORY (father of John mentioned previously) moved from PA > (probably Brother's Valley) to Trotwood, Montgomery Co, OH (Miami Vlley) > circa 1809. Not a direct answer to your question, but some pieces to add to > your jigsaw puzzle. > > > Thom > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 10:56 pm > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > Thanks, Thom! > > Are you aware if there was any group migration (of Brethren folks) from > Rockingham / Augusta, VA to the Miami Valley in OH about 1810? > > Melanie > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:39 PM, Thom <thomasflory@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > >I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, > > VAcirca 1800. > > LOTS of them. All of my father's ancestors were in Rockingham Co, VA > > [which split off Augusta in 1778] in the 1700s. Of his 8 GGPs, one was > > raised Presbyterian, 2 German Reformed, 1 Mennonite and 4 German Baptist. > > > > Thom Flory > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > > To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 10:32 pm > > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > > > > Thank you, Lynn. > > > > Yes, that book has been helpful. > > > > I can't figure out why two couples married in the Scot-Irish Presbyterian > > church would become German Baptists when they relocated to OH. > > > > I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, VA > > circa 1800. > > > > Melanie > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Lynn Sewell <lbsewell@frontiernet.net > > >wrote: > > > > > Melanine, I have two comments. Are you familiar with the book which is > > on > > > the internet. Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia. > > This > > > may help you with your questions. > > > > > > Also my father was raised a Mennonite and while my father and mother > were > > > dating he took her to church which was all in German Swiss. So German > > was > > > definitely spoken in some areas until 1920. It was my mother's family > > that > > > has the German Brethren roots. > > > > > > Lynn Sewell > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > > brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Melanie Rice > > > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:21 PM > > > To: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com > > > Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > > > > Thank you, Gale. > > > > > > I believe our Sherow's had connections in Montgomery, Darke and Preble > > > counties, OH. > > > > > > I belive Elizabeth Sherow, who owned land in Union and Concorde > > townships, > > > Miami County, OH - was a sister to Margaret Weickle Andrew, of > Montgomery > > > County, OH. > > > > > > Margaret Weickle married Samuel Andrew, in Augusta County, VA. This is > > > also > > > where John (sr) Sherow married Elizabeth Weickle (Sherow). These > > marriages > > > were in a Presbyterian congregation in a Scot-Irish area. At least > these > > > two couples migrated from Augusta County, VA to Miami Valley, Ohio ca > > 1810. > > > > > > John (sr) and Elizabeth Sherow had at least one son, John. This John > > > married Susannah Young. The couple had at least 13 children. It looks > > > like > > > the whole family moved to Marshall County, Indiana between 1840 and > 1843. > > > > > > I'm trying to understand why two couples living in a Scot-Irish area > and > > > married in a Presbyterian church - would relocate to OH, and possibly > > > become > > > part of German Baptist congregations. And - hoping this digging will > > give > > > clues of where to find more information. > > > > > > Melanie > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Melanie, > > > > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The > > > > Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the > > > > Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a > > > > pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for > parties > > > > who had no connections with the church. > > > > Gale > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Search the > > Archives > > > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > > ------------------------ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes > > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > > ------------------------ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body > > of > > the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Melanie, there were many German Baptists in that area of Virginia. Adam Miller who came down from near Lancaster PA as a youth was said to be the first white man to settle in the Shenandoah Valley. His son in law, Jacob Bear or Bare settled near Bear Lithia Springs and there are several Brethren Churches in the valley. The Valley of the Shadow is a great resource for geneology in that area as is the historical society in Rockingham. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Rice" <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> To: brethren@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 10:27:55 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow Thank you, Lynn. Yes, that book has been helpful. I can't figure out why two couples married in the Scot-Irish Presbyterian church would become German Baptists when they relocated to OH. I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, VA circa 1800. Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Lynn Sewell <lbsewell@frontiernet.net>wrote: > Melanine, I have two comments. Are you familiar with the book which is on > the internet. Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia. This > may help you with your questions. > > Also my father was raised a Mennonite and while my father and mother were > dating he took her to church which was all in German Swiss. So German was > definitely spoken in some areas until 1920. It was my mother's family that > has the German Brethren roots. > > Lynn Sewell > -----Original Message----- > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Melanie Rice > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:21 PM > To: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com > Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > Thank you, Gale. > > I believe our Sherow's had connections in Montgomery, Darke and Preble > counties, OH. > > I belive Elizabeth Sherow, who owned land in Union and Concorde townships, > Miami County, OH - was a sister to Margaret Weickle Andrew, of Montgomery > County, OH. > > Margaret Weickle married Samuel Andrew, in Augusta County, VA. This is > also > where John (sr) Sherow married Elizabeth Weickle (Sherow). These marriages > were in a Presbyterian congregation in a Scot-Irish area. At least these > two couples migrated from Augusta County, VA to Miami Valley, Ohio ca 1810. > > John (sr) and Elizabeth Sherow had at least one son, John. This John > married Susannah Young. The couple had at least 13 children. It looks > like > the whole family moved to Marshall County, Indiana between 1840 and 1843. > > I'm trying to understand why two couples living in a Scot-Irish area and > married in a Presbyterian church - would relocate to OH, and possibly > become > part of German Baptist congregations. And - hoping this digging will give > clues of where to find more information. > > Melanie > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > > > Melanie, > > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The > > Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the > > Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a > > pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties > > who had no connections with the church. > > Gale > > > > > > ------------------------ Search the Archives > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I too am interested in a group moving from Augusta to Miami Valley. John Huff married Ann Bear in Churchville, VA in 1810. I believe this is the same John Huff/Hoff who lived in the Miami Valley up to about 1828 when they relocated again to Flora, Indiana. John's son Lewis and Solomon were intermarried into the Lesh's near Eaton, OH in the early 1830's after they had started farming in Flora (married by the Brower that Merle was looking for). They must have come back to Eaton to get married. John Huff had a farm in the Miami Valley by 1814. Lewis was born in Virginia in 1811 so sometime between 1810 and 1814 people were on the move from the Rockingham/Augusta area to the Miami Valley. As near as I can tell, the Bears were Brethren and one of the at least four Jacob Bears probably was Ann Bear's father since he signed the marriage bond. Ray Hoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Rice" <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> To: brethren@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 10:54:22 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow Thanks, Thom! Are you aware if there was any group migration (of Brethren folks) from Rockingham / Augusta, VA to the Miami Valley in OH about 1810? Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:39 PM, Thom <thomasflory@aol.com> wrote: > > >I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, > VAcirca 1800. > LOTS of them. All of my father's ancestors were in Rockingham Co, VA > [which split off Augusta in 1778] in the 1700s. Of his 8 GGPs, one was > raised Presbyterian, 2 German Reformed, 1 Mennonite and 4 German Baptist. > > Thom Flory > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 10:32 pm > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > Thank you, Lynn. > > Yes, that book has been helpful. > > I can't figure out why two couples married in the Scot-Irish Presbyterian > church would become German Baptists when they relocated to OH. > > I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, VA > circa 1800. > > Melanie > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Lynn Sewell <lbsewell@frontiernet.net > >wrote: > > > Melanine, I have two comments. Are you familiar with the book which is > on > > the internet. Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia. > This > > may help you with your questions. > > > > Also my father was raised a Mennonite and while my father and mother were > > dating he took her to church which was all in German Swiss. So German > was > > definitely spoken in some areas until 1920. It was my mother's family > that > > has the German Brethren roots. > > > > Lynn Sewell > > -----Original Message----- > > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > On Behalf Of Melanie Rice > > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:21 PM > > To: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com > > Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > > Thank you, Gale. > > > > I believe our Sherow's had connections in Montgomery, Darke and Preble > > counties, OH. > > > > I belive Elizabeth Sherow, who owned land in Union and Concorde > townships, > > Miami County, OH - was a sister to Margaret Weickle Andrew, of Montgomery > > County, OH. > > > > Margaret Weickle married Samuel Andrew, in Augusta County, VA. This is > > also > > where John (sr) Sherow married Elizabeth Weickle (Sherow). These > marriages > > were in a Presbyterian congregation in a Scot-Irish area. At least these > > two couples migrated from Augusta County, VA to Miami Valley, Ohio ca > 1810. > > > > John (sr) and Elizabeth Sherow had at least one son, John. This John > > married Susannah Young. The couple had at least 13 children. It looks > > like > > the whole family moved to Marshall County, Indiana between 1840 and 1843. > > > > I'm trying to understand why two couples living in a Scot-Irish area and > > married in a Presbyterian church - would relocate to OH, and possibly > > become > > part of German Baptist congregations. And - hoping this digging will > give > > clues of where to find more information. > > > > Melanie > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > Melanie, > > > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The > > > Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the > > > Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a > > > pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties > > > who had no connections with the church. > > > Gale > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Search the > Archives > > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From my research it was: Bishops Reverend or Pastor or Preacher Deacons ---------------------------------------- Thanks for the information, Judy. Do we still have Bishops? ************ No "Bishops" - are technically those the church called "The Elders" - a very few early Elders were considered "Bishops" - probably because they had considerable responsibilities - extending far beyond the local church where they lived. That term was used by outside writers, about our elders. I do not think it was used by any of the Brethren. Several decades ago, the denomination decided that it would no longer have Elders this was based on a problem in the west - where churches are distant from each other - and Elders were few the headship of the local congregation was moved from the Ordained Elder - to an elected "Moderator" - usually a lay member the office of Elder was eliminated - but some churches still retain it The local church (back then c1800) had a "Presiding Elder" This person was frequently elected annually, but might hold it for life. He was in charge of the local church, and represented it to the denomination (Annual Meeting) [Annual Meeting had a similar "Elders Body", - of these representative Elders from the many churches - with a "Presiding Elder" (often now we call him the "Moderator"] He was in charge of the Elder's Body - all the business in the local church, including any others Ordained as Elders (maybe many/maybe one) - in some churches - the Elder was actually brought in from a neighboring church - to conduct local church business The elders were selected by Church Council vote - out of the Ordained Ministers of the local church it was considered a recognition of capability, usually after a number of years of service in the ministry. A young man, usually married, might be made a Deacon. This was an encouragement, especially if it was felt that he had capability. The Deacons might read the scripture, and usually lead congregational singing. (We did not have musical instruments in church - it was all A Capella - "Singing to the Lord") And you may have witnessed the slow - extended - singing that can take place. My father had a "pitch pipe" so he could sound the correct note on which to start the hymn - but some times a hymn was set so low (or so high) that it was hard to sing. [If I had been required to be a Deacon, and lead singing - I would never have made it to minister! - praise the Lord - He works Miracles - I'M Going to be in that Heavenly Choir - but it will Take One of those Miracles!] Out of the Deacons - some were "advanced to the ministry". Today we call these "Licensed Ministers", and encourage them to get "education" (learn their Bible, learn the church practices - both locally, and as a denomination - go to Seminary - or Bible College). These usually do not marry people, although they may assist and at Baptism and at Funerals. Some of these then are "Ordained to the Ministry". This used to be an action for Life - but now there are some controls instituted on this, to be sure the person really is doing Ministry, and that they do hold to the Church and the Bible. (My Father was Pastor and Presiding Elder of a church and was also the District Presiding Elder - where a former member returned after education and becoming a College Professor - who began to teach - as a minister - that Jesus was a good man - NOT the Son of God - It was quite a problem - the church actually had guards at night - walk around the parsonage where we lived - to keep it from being burned down on us! - I would wake up at night - hearing the footsteps - and lay awake - listening - 10 years old!) In the early churches, there were separate entrances for the men (right door) and the women (left door)(I think that is correct). Seating inside was also divided - some with a board wall (high enough a man could just look over, when standing. The women sat to the left, with the children. The men, and older boys, sat to the right. Between the doors, inside was the "Preacher's Bench". Those ministers who were active that particular service sat behind the bench. The deacons sat in front of the bench, facing the ministers. In the corners at the doors - to the Right of the Preachers Bench - the Men's entrance - was an area for any Elders who were not going to sit at the Preacher's Bench. Similarly - to the Left - the women's entrance - was an area for the Minister's and Elder's Wives. I found it very interesting - that "interested young men and women" (interested in each other - I don't think there was such a thing as outright "dating"!) - knew the board wall between the men's and women's side -and knew where there were knot holes. Invariably, there were fingers extended through the hole - from each direction - during Services!!. (And the Church KNEW ALL About It!) You might want to read my paper on the "Four Mile Church" - "the Dunkers" - at www.cob-net.org/docs/brethrenlife.htm HOWEVER - I am an Ordained Minister/Ordained Elder (installed by the Southern Ohio District Executive) - mine occurred only a few years ago - it is practiced mostly in churches that still retain the old conservatism I asked what my duties were to be - and I was told to "Pray" then "Pray for the Church!" ( - and I have seen need to pray for "All the Church!") Today - our concept is - that all members have a ministry - each as the Lord leads them to it. I Preach - visit the sick, etc. I have done this all my life, even when I was teaching, or a TV Chief Engineer. We consider it the "Part-Time Ministry" But practically - this is what the ministers of early day were - there were NO Paid Ministers - it was the "Free Ministry". OK - this has become a lecture - it certainly does not cover the whole subject. And churches each/all have their own variations Merle C Rummel

Gale, You said, *"The Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had no connections with the church."* Then, what of John Brower, who married many couples in Preble and I believe, Montgomery counties? Would that have been a different area of jurisdiction? Are you familiar with this John Brower? The Preble County early marriage records list him as performing a number of marriages. Also - am I correct in thinking YOUNCE was distinct from YOUNG at this time / place? Thank you, Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > Melanie, > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The Dunker > minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the Brush Creek > branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre 1850's Dunker > minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had no connections > with the church. > Gale > >

Stan, Thank you. What a wonderful find. I'll load it on my Kindle! Melanie On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Stan4 Follis <stan468@comcast.net> wrote: > A search for "History of the Church of the Brethren in Southern Ohio, 1708 > - > 1920" - found " History of the Church of the brethren of the Southern > district of Ohio (1921)" on Internet Archive: > https://archive.org/details/historyofchurch00chur > > > Stan Follis > > -----Original Message----- > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Melanie Rice > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:17 PM > To: Bob Harter; brethren@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s > > This is wonderful information. > > Do you know if the book you reference is available for purchase? > > "History of the Church of the Brethren in Southern Ohio, > 1708 - 1920" > > Also, is there a recommended book that chronicles the early history of the > Miami Valley? > > Thank you! > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 5:25 PM, Bob Harter > <rharter36@myfairpoint.net>wrote: > > > On page 167 the "History of the Church of the Brethren in Southern > > Ohio, > > 1708 - 1920" includes a bio on Rev. John Brower (6 Sept 1783 - 27 Apr > > 1863). > > He would have been licensed in Montgomery County because Preble County > > was not split off until 1808. However, so far as I know the family > > always lived in the area that became Preble County. > > > > Bob Harter > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Merle Rummel" <cliff@nwwnet.net> > > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early > > 1800s > > > > > > > Do the Brethren records mention a John Brower, who was a minister of > > > the gospel in Miami Valley, OH during the early 1800s? > > > > > > He married a couple I'm researching, in Preble County, OH, 1827. > > > The PrebleCounty books indicate he was originally licensed to > > > perform marriages in Montgomery County, OH. > > > > > > Are there any records of his being a minister in the Brethren church? > > > > > > ***************** > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Search the > > Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------ Search the Archives > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you, Thom. You said: *"...the German Baptists only arrived in Rockingham / Augusta in 1790. The first (I think) GB community in Virginia was at Flat Rock, in Shenandoah Co immediately north of Rockingham."* Where did they migrate from? Is there one good book that you or one of the others could recommend, that would help me get a good overview of the history and dispersion (in the US,) of the early Brethren? Melanie On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Thom <thomasflory@aol.com> wrote: > > There was lots of migration from the Rockingham Co, VA area [including > Augusta, Paige and other nearby counties] circa 1810. Not sure how much of > it was German Baptists, as the German Baptists only arrived in Rockingham / > Augusta in 1790. The first (I think) GB community in Virginia was at Flat > Rock, in Shenandoah Co immediately north of Rockingham. In 1790 my 3GGPs > John Flory & Catherine GARBER and her brother Samuel (I think that's the > right one) GARBER left Flat Rock and established the Cooks Creek GB > community in Rockingham (near Dayton). My 4GGPs SEITZ/SITES moved from > Rockingham, VA to Fairfield, OH in 1809 along with many others from > Rockingham, VA but I don't think these were GB. Meanwhile my GB 4GGF > Abraham FLORA/FLORY (father of John mentioned previously) moved from PA > (probably Brother's Valley) to Trotwood, Montgomery Co, OH (Miami Vlley) > circa 1809. Not a direct answer to your question, but some pieces to add to > your jigsaw puzzle. > > > Thom > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 10:56 pm > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > Thanks, Thom! > > Are you aware if there was any group migration (of Brethren folks) from > Rockingham / Augusta, VA to the Miami Valley in OH about 1810? > > Melanie > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:39 PM, Thom <thomasflory@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > >I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, > > VAcirca 1800. > > LOTS of them. All of my father's ancestors were in Rockingham Co, VA > > [which split off Augusta in 1778] in the 1700s. Of his 8 GGPs, one was > > raised Presbyterian, 2 German Reformed, 1 Mennonite and 4 German Baptist. > > > > Thom Flory > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > > To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 10:32 pm > > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > > > > Thank you, Lynn. > > > > Yes, that book has been helpful. > > > > I can't figure out why two couples married in the Scot-Irish Presbyterian > > church would become German Baptists when they relocated to OH. > > > > I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, VA > > circa 1800. > > > > Melanie > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Lynn Sewell <lbsewell@frontiernet.net > > >wrote: > > > > > Melanine, I have two comments. Are you familiar with the book which is > > on > > > the internet. Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia. > > This > > > may help you with your questions. > > > > > > Also my father was raised a Mennonite and while my father and mother > were > > > dating he took her to church which was all in German Swiss. So German > > was > > > definitely spoken in some areas until 1920. It was my mother's family > > that > > > has the German Brethren roots. > > > > > > Lynn Sewell > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > > brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > > On Behalf Of Melanie Rice > > > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:21 PM > > > To: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com > > > Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > > > > Thank you, Gale. > > > > > > I believe our Sherow's had connections in Montgomery, Darke and Preble > > > counties, OH. > > > > > > I belive Elizabeth Sherow, who owned land in Union and Concorde > > townships, > > > Miami County, OH - was a sister to Margaret Weickle Andrew, of > Montgomery > > > County, OH. > > > > > > Margaret Weickle married Samuel Andrew, in Augusta County, VA. This is > > > also > > > where John (sr) Sherow married Elizabeth Weickle (Sherow). These > > marriages > > > were in a Presbyterian congregation in a Scot-Irish area. At least > these > > > two couples migrated from Augusta County, VA to Miami Valley, Ohio ca > > 1810. > > > > > > John (sr) and Elizabeth Sherow had at least one son, John. This John > > > married Susannah Young. The couple had at least 13 children. It looks > > > like > > > the whole family moved to Marshall County, Indiana between 1840 and > 1843. > > > > > > I'm trying to understand why two couples living in a Scot-Irish area > and > > > married in a Presbyterian church - would relocate to OH, and possibly > > > become > > > part of German Baptist congregations. And - hoping this digging will > > give > > > clues of where to find more information. > > > > > > Melanie > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Melanie, > > > > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The > > > > Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the > > > > Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a > > > > pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for > parties > > > > who had no connections with the church. > > > > Gale > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Search the > > Archives > > > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > > ------------------------ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes > > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > > ------------------------ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body > > of > > the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Nancy this is a very valid suggestion. Additionally we have a number of French Huguenot families that became Mennonite and/or brethren. My own Correll family was one of them although it is thought they originated in Spain before fleeing to France and integrating into the Protestant community there. So the suggestion that this not very Germanic brethren name might have French roots is valid. John Shafer Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 14, 2014, at 2:21 PM, "Nancy Cripe" <nclunaire@aol.com> wrote: > > Melanie, > > > Re: possible French origins of the Sherow, Shirrow, etc. family name. Another possibility to consider is that the original name that evolved into Sherow may have begun not with a "sh" sound but its voiced variant, the [∫] or "soft g"?? Perhaps Sherow was originally a French name beginning not with S but with G, such as Giroux, Gireaux or Geraux? In a world in which language was predominantly oral, not written, this morphing between voiced and unvoiced phonemes (v to f, b to p, g to k or hard c, soft g to sh, j to ch, etc. > > In my family line, the voiced G of Greib became the same sound unvoiced: K or hard C: Kreib, Kripe, and Cripe. The voiced b on the end evolved to its unvoiced twin: p. Greib of the 18th century Germany-speaking world were people spoke but seldom wrote their names was variantly spelled Greib, Kreib, and Kripe. > > In the English-speaking world, it morphed into Gripe and Cripe, and as people became more literate and more and more of life was documented, the name became standardized as Cripe in the contemporary English-speaking world. In Germany and Alsace-Lorraine, it is still spelled, now standardized, as Greib. The sound of Greib in German is strikingly similar to the sound of Cripe in English. > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 12:07:52 -0700 > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [BRE] BRETHREN Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20 > To: brethren@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CADOsdMA-fOM79hV82cMOeNJ6umkyPaiROU1OaOXjuy6xzf40iA@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Ruth, > > We have considered that possibility, but so far, no evidence points in that > direction. > > This is why I'm digging around the collateral lines and looking at the > family's religious affiliation. > > >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Ruth Hoese <ruthjh@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Have you looked into the possibility that Shirrow could be French. As in >> Shireau or Chireau or variants with an x on the end . . . . > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Melanie, Re: possible French origins of the Sherow, Shirrow, etc. family name. Another possibility to consider is that the original name that evolved into Sherow may have begun not with a "sh" sound but its voiced variant, the [∫] or "soft g"?? Perhaps Sherow was originally a French name beginning not with S but with G, such as Giroux, Gireaux or Geraux? In a world in which language was predominantly oral, not written, this morphing between voiced and unvoiced phonemes (v to f, b to p, g to k or hard c, soft g to sh, j to ch, etc. In my family line, the voiced G of Greib became the same sound unvoiced: K or hard C: Kreib, Kripe, and Cripe. The voiced b on the end evolved to its unvoiced twin: p. Greib of the 18th century Germany-speaking world were people spoke but seldom wrote their names was variantly spelled Greib, Kreib, and Kripe. In the English-speaking world, it morphed into Gripe and Cripe, and as people became more literate and more and more of life was documented, the name became standardized as Cripe in the contemporary English-speaking world. In Germany and Alsace-Lorraine, it is still spelled, now standardized, as Greib. The sound of Greib in German is strikingly similar to the sound of Cripe in English. Message: 7 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 12:07:52 -0700 From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [BRE] BRETHREN Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20 To: brethren@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CADOsdMA-fOM79hV82cMOeNJ6umkyPaiROU1OaOXjuy6xzf40iA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ruth, We have considered that possibility, but so far, no evidence points in that direction. This is why I'm digging around the collateral lines and looking at the family's religious affiliation. On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Ruth Hoese <ruthjh@gmail.com> wrote: > > Have you looked into the possibility that Shirrow could be French. As in > Shireau or Chireau or variants with an x on the end . . . .

Kim, He is not listed in the Brethren Encyclopedia as a minister within out faith. Pastor is a more modern term used among us, instituted when a paid ministry came to the congregation. Reverend is rarely a term we use. Prior to this was the free ministry when the usual term of brother [lower case] was in use. Gale ---- "Kim D. Garrison" <b1uebe11e@hotmail.com> wrote: > I am a member of the Church of the Brethren and have attended several Brethren churches over the years. I noticed that most congregations refer to their leaders as pastors. Has this been a consistent title throughout the years? I am aware that we also have Bishops, although I'm not aware of any at this time in the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia. > > I'm trying to find out where Rev. Ernest C. Landes b. 30 Apr 1884 d. 30 Jun 1930 preached. He is buried in Nokesville, Virginia in Valley View Cemetery. I checked the Nokesville CoB website for a list of pastors, but I couldn't find one. The Manassas CoB website has a broken link to their Brethren history page. Since his title is Rev. on his gravestone, I thought he may have been a minister at a Methodist or other church. Thank you for any help, suggestions or explanations. > Kim D. Garrison > Greetings from > Weyers Cave, VA

Are you aware if there was any group migration (of Brethren folks) fromRockingham / Augusta, VA to the Miami Valley in OH about 1810? ***************** Yes - this was a time of major migration to Southern Ohio - The main road was the Kanawha Trace (see Migration Roads - www.cob-net.org/docs/brethrenlife.htm - both PowerPoint Presentation and the Paper) - which the Quakers opened from the Yadkin River north across the Blue Ridge to the New River, through the "Virginia Mountains" (now West Virginia - the "New River Gorge") - following the Shawnee Indian Warpath to the Ohio River at Gallipolis OH. There it went to Chillicothe - Greenfield - Wilmington - Franklin - Gratis - Eaton - Richmond IN (Way Bill 1809). Indian roads went north from it at several places - into the Dayton area (the road was south of Dayton - Dayton was only a collection houses) From Rockingham Co a company would go south on the Valley Road to below Big Lick (Roanoke), there the Shawnee Indian Road came out - close to I-84. Some might go north to Hagarstown MD, and follow Braddocks Road to Uniontown PA, then west to Fort Henry (Wheeling WVa - route being called: "Cumberland Road"), or north from Uniontown to Pittsburgh - at either site, they might still go down the Ohio River, landing at the Bullskin (Clermont co OH - east of Cincinnati) and follow the Indian Road north - splitting and going either side of Dayton. The National Road (US40) was an extension of the Cumberland Road - across Ohio in 1825-8 - to Richmond IN - in 1835-6 being extended on to St Louis MO. Our families coming to the Four Mile Creek came on the Kanawha Trace from Franklin Co VA in 3 waves - 1805-6, 1811, 1818. They actually used an alternate of the Shawnee Indian WarPath from Beckley WVa down the Coal River to the Kanawha. (I've written a fiction of this trip - 1806 - with pictures - as "Nancy Lybrook's Journal" - [at the cob-net.org site] - Nancy was 15 years old that year.) On John Brower/Hannah Miller - their children were born in Rockingham Co Va between 1815 and 1833 - so this is not the correct John Brower, minister, in Preble Co OH during that time. Merle C Rummel

There was lots of migration from the Rockingham Co, VA area [including Augusta, Paige and other nearby counties] circa 1810. Not sure how much of it was German Baptists, as the German Baptists only arrived in Rockingham / Augusta in 1790. The first (I think) GB community in Virginia was at Flat Rock, in Shenandoah Co immediately north of Rockingham. In 1790 my 3GGPs John Flory & Catherine GARBER and her brother Samuel (I think that's the right one) GARBER left Flat Rock and established the Cooks Creek GB community in Rockingham (near Dayton). My 4GGPs SEITZ/SITES moved from Rockingham, VA to Fairfield, OH in 1809 along with many others from Rockingham, VA but I don't think these were GB. Meanwhile my GB 4GGF Abraham FLORA/FLORY (father of John mentioned previously) moved from PA (probably Brother's Valley) to Trotwood, Montgomery Co, OH (Miami Vlley) circa 1809. Not a direct answer to your question, but some pieces to add to your jigsaw puzzle. Thom -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 10:56 pm Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow Thanks, Thom! Are you aware if there was any group migration (of Brethren folks) from Rockingham / Augusta, VA to the Miami Valley in OH about 1810? Melanie On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:39 PM, Thom <thomasflory@aol.com> wrote: > > >I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, > VAcirca 1800. > LOTS of them. All of my father's ancestors were in Rockingham Co, VA > [which split off Augusta in 1778] in the 1700s. Of his 8 GGPs, one was > raised Presbyterian, 2 German Reformed, 1 Mennonite and 4 German Baptist. > > Thom Flory > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 10:32 pm > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > Thank you, Lynn. > > Yes, that book has been helpful. > > I can't figure out why two couples married in the Scot-Irish Presbyterian > church would become German Baptists when they relocated to OH. > > I'm wondering if there were some German Baptists in Augusta County, VA > circa 1800. > > Melanie > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Lynn Sewell <lbsewell@frontiernet.net > >wrote: > > > Melanine, I have two comments. Are you familiar with the book which is > on > > the internet. Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia. > This > > may help you with your questions. > > > > Also my father was raised a Mennonite and while my father and mother were > > dating he took her to church which was all in German Swiss. So German > was > > definitely spoken in some areas until 1920. It was my mother's family > that > > has the German Brethren roots. > > > > Lynn Sewell > > -----Original Message----- > > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > On Behalf Of Melanie Rice > > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:21 PM > > To: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com > > Cc: brethren@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [BRE] Sherow > > > > Thank you, Gale. > > > > I believe our Sherow's had connections in Montgomery, Darke and Preble > > counties, OH. > > > > I belive Elizabeth Sherow, who owned land in Union and Concorde > townships, > > Miami County, OH - was a sister to Margaret Weickle Andrew, of Montgomery > > County, OH. > > > > Margaret Weickle married Samuel Andrew, in Augusta County, VA. This is > > also > > where John (sr) Sherow married Elizabeth Weickle (Sherow). These > marriages > > were in a Presbyterian congregation in a Scot-Irish area. At least these > > two couples migrated from Augusta County, VA to Miami Valley, Ohio ca > 1810. > > > > John (sr) and Elizabeth Sherow had at least one son, John. This John > > married Susannah Young. The couple had at least 13 children. It looks > > like > > the whole family moved to Marshall County, Indiana between 1840 and 1843. > > > > I'm trying to understand why two couples living in a Scot-Irish area and > > married in a Presbyterian church - would relocate to OH, and possibly > > become > > part of German Baptist congregations. And - hoping this digging will > give > > clues of where to find more information. > > > > Melanie > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > Melanie, > > > Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The > > > Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the > > > Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a > > > pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties > > > who had no connections with the church. > > > Gale > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Search the > Archives > > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A search for "History of the Church of the Brethren in Southern Ohio, 1708 - 1920" - found " History of the Church of the brethren of the Southern district of Ohio (1921)" on Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/historyofchurch00chur Stan Follis -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Rice Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:17 PM To: Bob Harter; brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s This is wonderful information. Do you know if the book you reference is available for purchase? "History of the Church of the Brethren in Southern Ohio, 1708 - 1920" Also, is there a recommended book that chronicles the early history of the Miami Valley? Thank you! On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 5:25 PM, Bob Harter <rharter36@myfairpoint.net>wrote: > On page 167 the "History of the Church of the Brethren in Southern > Ohio, > 1708 - 1920" includes a bio on Rev. John Brower (6 Sept 1783 - 27 Apr > 1863). > He would have been licensed in Montgomery County because Preble County > was not split off until 1808. However, so far as I know the family > always lived in the area that became Preble County. > > Bob Harter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Merle Rummel" <cliff@nwwnet.net> > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:31 PM > Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early > 1800s > > > > Do the Brethren records mention a John Brower, who was a minister of > > the gospel in Miami Valley, OH during the early 1800s? > > > > He married a couple I'm researching, in Preble County, OH, 1827. > > The PrebleCounty books indicate he was originally licensed to > > perform marriages in Montgomery County, OH. > > > > Are there any records of his being a minister in the Brethren church? > > > > ***************** > > > > ------------------------ Search the > Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Melanie, Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had no connections with the church. Gale

I can only speak for the Lesh's and Hoff's. Both were Church of the Brethren (German Baptists or Dunkards). Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Rice" <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> To: "Bob Harter" <rharter36@myfairpoint.net>, brethren@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:26:55 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] John Brower, German Baptist minister, OH, early 1800s So, based on your knowledge of the early German Baptists in the Miami Valley, Ohio - may I conclude that a couple married by John Brower would have been of German Baptist families? Would a German Baptist minister of that era have been likely to marry a couple who was not of their faith? I know there were few if any church buildings in Miami County, OH in the first 20 or so years of European settlement. So, would a couple of another branch of Christianity have asked a German Baptist minister to marry them - if there were no other minister in the area? I ask this to try to establish the origin of the Sherow family, found in Miami County, OH circa 1810 - 1843. On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Bob Harter <rharter36@myfairpoint.net>wrote: > Of possible additional interest, Rev. John Brower's sister, Elizabeth > (Betsy) Brower married John's brother-in-law, Rev. Joseph Harter,.and in > 1836 they moved to Wabash County, Indiana. According to the Wabash County > History Bicentennial Edition, 1976, "Joseph Harter, Sr., was the first > resident preacher, elder, and moderator of the German Baptist Church > (Dunkard) and preached in German." This would be referring to the North > Manchester Church of the Brethren. > John and Elizabeth were children of John Brower Sr. (1758-1812) and Mary > Magdalene Titelow (1760 - 1845). Their brother, Abraham Brower also married > a Harter, Elizabeth, daughter of George Harter and Magdalena Kitterman. > George was another brother of Rev. John Brower's father-in-law. > > Bob Harter > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message