The Hessian's were part the army of Cornwallis. They came down from New York to Charleston, and followed Cornwallis up to Yorktown. They fought at the battle of Guilford Courthouse in North Carolina. My AWOL Hessian ancestor left Cornwallis at Yorktown, about a month before the battle ended. Bill Thomas
In fact, King George was so German that he didn't speak English! He showed favoritism to some of my Irish Palatine ancestors, Germans sent to Ireland in 1709. They got payments for over twenty years and preferential land arrangements for being Protestant settlers in largely Catholic County Limerick. Beverly Railey Robinson Sent from my iPad On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:47 PM, "Bill Thomas" <wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> wrote: > The area the Hessian's came from in Europe is not associated with the > European version of the German Baptists. By the American Revolution, the > European version was likely extinct. It was not uncommon for Hessian > soldiers to go AWOL from the British Army. They likely joined in the first > place out of economic needs. King George was of German ancestry and had > alliances with Hesse, including using Hessian soldiers to fight in America. > The 'House of Windsor' used by the Royal Family is a recent term, which came > about during World War I, since having a King with a fancy German name, > wasn't a politically correct thing to do when you were fighting the Germans. > Especially when the Kaiser was the King of England's cousin. One of my > ancestors was an AWOL Hessian. He was Lutheran. > > Bill Thomas > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
The area the Hessian's came from in Europe is not associated with the European version of the German Baptists. By the American Revolution, the European version was likely extinct. It was not uncommon for Hessian soldiers to go AWOL from the British Army. They likely joined in the first place out of economic needs. King George was of German ancestry and had alliances with Hesse, including using Hessian soldiers to fight in America. The 'House of Windsor' used by the Royal Family is a recent term, which came about during World War I, since having a King with a fancy German name, wasn't a politically correct thing to do when you were fighting the Germans. Especially when the Kaiser was the King of England's cousin. One of my ancestors was an AWOL Hessian. He was Lutheran. Bill Thomas
My ancestor Stophel Auckerman may have been a Hessian soldier who was in SW Pa. during and after the The Revolution. His children were born in Va. and Pa., the last one in about 1790 reportedly in Pa.. Does anyone know if Hessian soldiers might have been connected to the Brethren? I have read that many or most were Protestants. ***************** a prominent one - - The first Brethren Elder to move to Virginia was Elder Jacob Miller (1773 - to Franklin Co VA). He preached in German. He was accompanied by a William Smith, who preached in English (he was advanced to Eldership in Virginia, by Elder Jacob Miller). With Elder John Garber, of the Flat Rock Church (1775), these were the 3 most important Brethren in early Revolutionary Virginia. Jacob Miller moved to Dayton OH, about 1801. At the settlement of his estate (1816) was a William Smith, who almost certainly was the afore William Smith, preacher, now Elder Most of the children of Elder Jacob came here to the Four Mile (just across the state line in Indiana territory). We also have records here of two William Smiths, one of whom likely was this same person. The Elder William Smith (William Rose Smith), moved west (land records say he moved from Union Co IN - the Four Mile), to the Raccoon Creek church, Putnam Co IN, about 1826 (with the Potter John Miller family), and died there - in his 80s - about 1839. His wife (?1st wife) was Nancy Henderson, full sister to Sally Henderson, wife of Tobias Miller, half sister to Phoebe McClure, wife of Potter John Miller (both sons of Elder Jacob Miller) and to Isabella McClure, wife of William Crawford, best friend of Potter John - all of the Four Mile Church. The story of William Rose Smith, as followed by a descendent, Janie Smith, with help from Southern Virginia History, is that William Smith was a medical doctor in the British Army, under General Cornwallis, as they invaded the Carolinas and Virginia to end at surrender at Yorktown (1781). It is probably from there that Williiam Smith followed some of the Bedford Co Militia back to the Blue Ridge Mountains and Franklin Co Va. (He was between 20 and 30 years old at the time of the surrender, and refused repatriation to Canada.) His children were born in Franklin Co VA, came west to Putnam Co IN - and scattered further in Brethren migration. Mention of Elder William R Smith is in the History of the Church of the Brethren in Indiana, by Dr Otho Winger, under the Ladoga Church. This is a summation of a paper on Elder William Rose Smith (by Janie Smith and myself) (that has been submitted to Brethren Roots, but so far has not been published). *************** But please - The Hessian troops were engaged in battles in the coastal areas from Boston to Maryland, possibly even to the Carolinas. Your Stophel Auckerman likely Moved West to the Pennsylvania frontier, but it would have been After the Revolution. The Brethren were in southwestern Pennsylvania years before the Revolution, and there was considerable migration to those areas after the war. I have seen mention of a number of the Hessians, who simply refused to return to Germany, disappeared from the British Army, and are found in various locations in the colonies. Some had been captured and there were others who had surrendered . In an 1801 marriage certificate, John Auckerman (son of Jacob and Elizabeth Auckerman - ?Gettysburg PA) was married to Mary Hole, at Williamsburg, Hamilton Co OH (now Clermont Co OH), by Jacob Miller, MG (Minister of the Gospel - which adds some confusion in my findings on Elder Jacob Miller) This is the Elizabeth, who deserted her husband and came with a Frederick Nunt to Columbia (sw corner of Cincinnati now) in 1789, with her children (son John, and 2 younger daughters), per an ad ran by Jacob Aukerman in the Frederick MD Newspaper. These were the earliest Brethren family I have found in Ohio. Due to the Virginia Bounty Lands Survey, they moved up to the Dayton area, where Elizabeth was in turn deserted. She lived with John and Mary at their farm at Gratis OH, and is buried at Eaton OH. I have found 3 Hessian Generals with the name Rummel (Prussians) who were in the British Army, but my ancestor was in Lancaster Co PA several decades before the Revolution. There is a possibility of a connection with a former Hessian soldier, who was living at Thurmont MD and my ancestor George Rummel, then at Gettysburg (letter by a Lawrence Rummel to a brother - another George Rummel, an Inn Keeper at Gettysburg [both Hessians?], about his daughter moving up there - c1800). Yes - I am certain there were 2 George Rummels in Gettysburg PA - in 1800 - that this was Not My George Rummel. Mine lived on a farm east of Gettysburg (the "Cavalry Field" of the Battle, "Rummel's Farm") - had to investigate it though. Merle C Rummel
It is hard for us of the automobile age to realize how much people actually traveled back in those days. They really got around. On 2/18/2014 1:06 PM, john shafer wrote: > Interesting you mention the Irish palatines Beverly. My grandfather always stated that my ancestor john shaffer came from Ireland but the shaffers were clearly German. There is a branch of my correll family that also ended up in Ireland via the German states. > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:56 PM, "Beverly Robinson" <bez4@aol.com> wrote: >> >> In fact, King George was so German that he didn't speak English! He showed favoritism to some of my Irish Palatine ancestors, Germans sent to Ireland in 1709. They got payments for over twenty years and preferential land arrangements for being Protestant settlers in largely Catholic County Limerick. >> >> Beverly Railey Robinson >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:47 PM, "Bill Thomas" <wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> wrote: >>> >>> The area the Hessian's came from in Europe is not associated with the >>> European version of the German Baptists. By the American Revolution, the >>> European version was likely extinct. It was not uncommon for Hessian >>> soldiers to go AWOL from the British Army. They likely joined in the first >>> place out of economic needs. King George was of German ancestry and had >>> alliances with Hesse, including using Hessian soldiers to fight in America. >>> The 'House of Windsor' used by the Royal Family is a recent term, which came >>> about during World War I, since having a King with a fancy German name, >>> wasn't a politically correct thing to do when you were fighting the Germans. >>> Especially when the Kaiser was the King of England's cousin. One of my >>> ancestors was an AWOL Hessian. He was Lutheran. >>> >>> Bill Thomas >>> >>> >>> ------------------------ >>> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >>> ------------------------ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------ >> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >> ------------------------ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
My Brethren grandmother descended from a Hessian soldier, Aaron Ruse. She was not German other than that, and data says Aaron Ruse was as Protestant/ Methodist. So I dont know where or when the Brethren religion came in. After doing some research I wonder if she wasn't of the United Brethren group but that is not what the obit says. Obits can be wrong. Ruth Hoese /18/2014 12:55 PM, Beverly Robinson wrote: > In fact, King George was so German that he didn't speak English! He showed favoritism to some of my Irish Palatine ancestors, Germans sent to Ireland in 1709. They got payments for over twenty years and preferential land arrangements for being Protestant settlers in largely Catholic County Limerick. > > Beverly Railey Robinson > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:47 PM, "Bill Thomas" <wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> wrote: > >> The area the Hessian's came from in Europe is not associated with the >> European version of the German Baptists. By the American Revolution, the >> European version was likely extinct. It was not uncommon for Hessian >> soldiers to go AWOL from the British Army. They likely joined in the first >> place out of economic needs. King George was of German ancestry and had >> alliances with Hesse, including using Hessian soldiers to fight in America. >> The 'House of Windsor' used by the Royal Family is a recent term, which came >> about during World War I, since having a King with a fancy German name, >> wasn't a politically correct thing to do when you were fighting the Germans. >> Especially when the Kaiser was the King of England's cousin. One of my >> ancestors was an AWOL Hessian. He was Lutheran. >> >> Bill Thomas >> >> >> ------------------------ >> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >> ------------------------ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
The brethren were generally pacifists so would not likely have been connected to the brethren at that time. However it would be possible that after finishing his service he was later drawn to the faith of the other Germans around him. The names Auckerman and Rhodes can be found among the brethren. John Shafer Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:51 AM, "Christine" <cwelch@neo.rr.com> wrote: > > > > I have been stuck for a very long time in the Shenandoah Valley. My > ancestors were German and may have been old German Baptist or possibly > Brethren. Since there's seems to be a conversation going on about 2 things > I've been stuck on, I thought I'd jump in here. > > > > My ancestor Stophel Auckerman may have been a Hessian soldier who was in SW > Pa. during and after the The Revolution. His children were born in Va. and > Pa., the last one in about 1790 reportedly in Pa.. Does anyone know if > Hessian soldiers might have been connected to the Brethren? I have read that > many or most were Protestants. > > > > In 1795, in Frederick Co., Va.(Shenandoah Valley) his wife, Elisabeth, > passed away. Three (3) different men were listed as guardians for her three > children ages 5, 9, and 13. There was nothing stated about the husband, > Stophel. I have found a man by similar name in PA. in the 1810 census in > Northumberland Co. and again in 1820 in Allegheny Co.. > > > > Any educated guesses what might have been the case. Should I assume Stophel > has died? Divorced Elizabeth? Is it likely that any or all of these men > might have been relatives? Does the Brethren Church in that area have any > records? Their son John (1786-1874) reportedly born in PA., was living in > Shenandoah Co. in the 1810 census before going to southern Ohio the > following year. I have very little about this family and can't seem to find > anything else either. The surnames of the guardians were > Rhodes/Roads/Zink/Zinck and Bittman/Pittman. Thanks for any suggestions! > > > > Christine in NE Ohio > > > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I have been stuck for a very long time in the Shenandoah Valley. My ancestors were German and may have been old German Baptist or possibly Brethren. Since there's seems to be a conversation going on about 2 things I've been stuck on, I thought I'd jump in here. My ancestor Stophel Auckerman may have been a Hessian soldier who was in SW Pa. during and after the The Revolution. His children were born in Va. and Pa., the last one in about 1790 reportedly in Pa.. Does anyone know if Hessian soldiers might have been connected to the Brethren? I have read that many or most were Protestants. In 1795, in Frederick Co., Va.(Shenandoah Valley) his wife, Elisabeth, passed away. Three (3) different men were listed as guardians for her three children ages 5, 9, and 13. There was nothing stated about the husband, Stophel. I have found a man by similar name in PA. in the 1810 census in Northumberland Co. and again in 1820 in Allegheny Co.. Any educated guesses what might have been the case. Should I assume Stophel has died? Divorced Elizabeth? Is it likely that any or all of these men might have been relatives? Does the Brethren Church in that area have any records? Their son John (1786-1874) reportedly born in PA., was living in Shenandoah Co. in the 1810 census before going to southern Ohio the following year. I have very little about this family and can't seem to find anything else either. The surnames of the guardians were Rhodes/Roads/Zink/Zinck and Bittman/Pittman. Thanks for any suggestions! Christine in NE Ohio
The wills I have from Maryland and VA/wv usually have daughters. Pre-1900s. Beverly Sent from my iPad On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:08 AM, "Dwayne Wrightsman" <dwayne55@comcast.net> wrote: > In general, married women were usually unlisted in their fathers' wills when > their husbands were alive. The wills usually listed the husbands' names > instead. It was pretty much common practice back then. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Lynn Sewell > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:03 AM > To: brethren@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BRE] Age of Majority 3rd time > > I had a case where I was trying to find if this daughter belonged to aa > certain family. She was left out of the will because she was married before > she was 21. The thinking that the husband would take care of her. She was > the only daughter. Lynn Sewell > > -----Original Message----- > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Pat McArtor > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 7:24 AM > To: brethren@rootsweb.com > Subject: [BRE] Age of Majority 3rd time > > SEE BELOW: > 4) Would a guardianship be sought if the father was widowed but still alive? > > Not typically because legal order when a mother died is Father > minor > children and Female Adult UNmarried > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and > if Adult Married then also her husband (because "she" was incapable of > signing legal contracts). > > If the Father died, it was minor children and Female Adult UNmarried > > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and if Adult Married then also her husband > (because "she" was incapable of signing legal contracts). > > Either way, Kids must be taken care of till age 21 (males) and most > unmarried females continued to live at home so then the widow could apply > for an upkeep allowance (if the Estate remained unsettled). > > Based on SW PA research and I welcome other people's comments on what I've > written here. > > OFTENTIMES IN OHIO, IF A WIFE/MOTHER HAD RECEIVED AN INHERITANCE FROM HER > FATHER AND THEN DIED, HER CHILDREN WERE SET UP WITH A GUARDIAN TO PROTECT > THEIR INTERESTS IN THAT ESTATE. THAT ESTATE/MONEY DID NOT PASS TO THE > HUSBAND/FATHER. > p > > > ------------------------ Search the Archives > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ Search the Archives > at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
In general, married women were usually unlisted in their fathers' wills when their husbands were alive. The wills usually listed the husbands' names instead. It was pretty much common practice back then. -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Sewell Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:03 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Age of Majority 3rd time I had a case where I was trying to find if this daughter belonged to aa certain family. She was left out of the will because she was married before she was 21. The thinking that the husband would take care of her. She was the only daughter. Lynn Sewell -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pat McArtor Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 7:24 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: [BRE] Age of Majority 3rd time SEE BELOW: 4) Would a guardianship be sought if the father was widowed but still alive? Not typically because legal order when a mother died is Father > minor children and Female Adult UNmarried > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and if Adult Married then also her husband (because "she" was incapable of signing legal contracts). If the Father died, it was minor children and Female Adult UNmarried > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and if Adult Married then also her husband (because "she" was incapable of signing legal contracts). Either way, Kids must be taken care of till age 21 (males) and most unmarried females continued to live at home so then the widow could apply for an upkeep allowance (if the Estate remained unsettled). Based on SW PA research and I welcome other people's comments on what I've written here. OFTENTIMES IN OHIO, IF A WIFE/MOTHER HAD RECEIVED AN INHERITANCE FROM HER FATHER AND THEN DIED, HER CHILDREN WERE SET UP WITH A GUARDIAN TO PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS IN THAT ESTATE. THAT ESTATE/MONEY DID NOT PASS TO THE HUSBAND/FATHER. p ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Among my mother's papers, we found a letter which had been written by her father's mother requesting release from guardianship of her youngest daughter. Her husband had died and apparently the daughter had been left some money or property. The daughter was now an adult, and her mother felt it was time to give up guardianship. It took us quite a long time to figure it all out. Part of the problem was that they had moved from Iowa to California. Eventually, it all made sense. SD On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 11:34 AM, "captainlaser@comcast.net" <captainlaser@comcast.net> wrote: Gale, I have a case in my family where the parent obviously was destitute and gave the children into service where the person they worked for became guardian. If you wanted money to go to children, you gave it to them specifically. Another case in my family, there was a specific exclusion for a daughter who married a man out of the faith and the father was not having any money go to her since she had married without permission. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: ghoneyman@woh.rr.com To: brethren@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 11:22:48 AM Subject: Re: [BRE] Age of Majority > 4) Would a guardianship be sought if the father was widowed but still alive? I have found this to be true in a number of cases when the maternal grandfather has left a bequest to a deceased daughter. Reasoning is to protect the inheritance for those specifically name grandchildren in case the father remarries. And, not always is the father named as their guardian. I have seen estates where the son-in-law had fallen from favor for one reason or another with other relatives or neighbors appointed as guardians. Many times children in the same family were given different guardians and occasionally they were replaced for various reasons. Gale ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I had a case where I was trying to find if this daughter belonged to aa certain family. She was left out of the will because she was married before she was 21. The thinking that the husband would take care of her. She was the only daughter. Lynn Sewell -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pat McArtor Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 7:24 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: [BRE] Age of Majority 3rd time SEE BELOW: 4) Would a guardianship be sought if the father was widowed but still alive? Not typically because legal order when a mother died is Father > minor children and Female Adult UNmarried > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and if Adult Married then also her husband (because "she" was incapable of signing legal contracts). If the Father died, it was minor children and Female Adult UNmarried > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and if Adult Married then also her husband (because "she" was incapable of signing legal contracts). Either way, Kids must be taken care of till age 21 (males) and most unmarried females continued to live at home so then the widow could apply for an upkeep allowance (if the Estate remained unsettled). Based on SW PA research and I welcome other people's comments on what I've written here. OFTENTIMES IN OHIO, IF A WIFE/MOTHER HAD RECEIVED AN INHERITANCE FROM HER FATHER AND THEN DIED, HER CHILDREN WERE SET UP WITH A GUARDIAN TO PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS IN THAT ESTATE. THAT ESTATE/MONEY DID NOT PASS TO THE HUSBAND/FATHER. p ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
How abt if the father dies young and 24 yr old mother has young Children? I have a case in 1880s in northcentral WV where this happened, and her father gained guardianship. Handled money, reported to courts, etc. Would this be usual? Thank you very much. Beverly Railey Robinson Sent from my iPad On Feb 18, 2014, at 8:24 AM, Pat McArtor <pmca2@frontier.com> wrote: > SEE BELOW: > 4) Would a guardianship be sought if the father was widowed but still alive? > > Not typically because legal order when a mother died is Father > minor > children and Female Adult UNmarried > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and > if Adult Married then also her husband (because "she" was incapable of > signing legal contracts). > > If the Father died, it was minor children and Female Adult UNmarried > > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and if Adult Married then also her > husband (because "she" was incapable of signing legal contracts). > > Either way, Kids must be taken care of till age 21 (males) and most > unmarried females continued to live at home so then the widow could apply > for an upkeep allowance (if the Estate remained unsettled). > > Based on SW PA research and I welcome other people's comments on what I've > written here. > > OFTENTIMES IN OHIO, IF A WIFE/MOTHER HAD RECEIVED AN INHERITANCE FROM HER FATHER AND THEN DIED, HER CHILDREN WERE SET UP WITH A GUARDIAN TO PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS IN THAT ESTATE. THAT ESTATE/MONEY DID NOT PASS TO THE HUSBAND/FATHER. > p > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
SEE BELOW: 4) Would a guardianship be sought if the father was widowed but still alive? Not typically because legal order when a mother died is Father > minor children and Female Adult UNmarried > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and if Adult Married then also her husband (because "she" was incapable of signing legal contracts). If the Father died, it was minor children and Female Adult UNmarried > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and if Adult Married then also her husband (because "she" was incapable of signing legal contracts). Either way, Kids must be taken care of till age 21 (males) and most unmarried females continued to live at home so then the widow could apply for an upkeep allowance (if the Estate remained unsettled). Based on SW PA research and I welcome other people's comments on what I've written here. OFTENTIMES IN OHIO, IF A WIFE/MOTHER HAD RECEIVED AN INHERITANCE FROM HER FATHER AND THEN DIED, HER CHILDREN WERE SET UP WITH A GUARDIAN TO PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS IN THAT ESTATE. THAT ESTATE/MONEY DID NOT PASS TO THE HUSBAND/FATHER. p
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:07 PM, Stuart Bechman <sbechman@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Hi, I'm looking at Delaware pre-1800 probate records where petitions have been filed to designate a guardian to minors of a deceased parent. This raises a few questions for me, I am wondering if anyone on this list knows the answers?: 1) At what age did minors cease to be minors in that period? Single Freeman came on Tax Lists at age 21. In 1800, most men married at or beyond that age. I'm unsure of age for women to marry but I assume at least age of majority OR by consent. 2) Would all minors of a deceased parent require a guardian, or just minors under a certain age? Typically, yes, 'all' minors with one or more Counsel/representation/guardian to represent their interests. NOTE: Just because a guardian is listed, it does not mean the mother is dead. Guardian often was only for legal matters. 3) Some of the petitions seem to indicate that the mother was still alive at the time of the petition. Is that possible or typical? Yes, a father's Real Property was deemed to pass to children, so the Children NOT the wife had first rights. Remember women/wives were almost 'possessions' and non-persons with limited legal rights. 4) Would a guardianship be sought if the father was widowed but still alive? Not typically because legal order when a mother died is Father > minor children and Female Adult UNmarried > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and if Adult Married then also her husband (because "she" was incapable of signing legal contracts). If the Father died, it was minor children and Female Adult UNmarried > Father's Spouse > Adult Children, and if Adult Married then also her husband (because "she" was incapable of signing legal contracts). Either way, Kids must be taken care of till age 21 (males) and most unmarried females continued to live at home so then the widow could apply for an upkeep allowance (if the Estate remained unsettled). Based on SW PA research and I welcome other people's comments on what I've written here. Judy -- -- WASHINGTON COUNTY PA WEBSITES::: http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/ http://freepages.school-alumni.rootsweb.com/~florian/the-rockdoctor/ Coordinator of the Washington County PAGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pawashin/
Hi, I'm looking at Delaware pre-1800 probate records where petitions have been filed to designate a guardian to minors of a deceased parent. This raises a few questions for me, I am wondering if anyone on this list knows the answers?: 1) At what age did minors cease to be minors in that period? 2) Would all minors of a deceased parent require a guardian, or just minors under a certain age? 3) Some of the petitions seem to indicate that the mother was still alive at the time of the petition. Is that possible or typical? 4) Would a guardianship be sought if the father was widowed but still alive? Thanks! -Stuart
Yup, same here. Wonder what tomorrow may bring. Wet ice, most likely. Hope we can make it to Abe's. If we can, I'm having something warmish, since the temp should be about 40 , yea. ----- Original Message ----- From: <brethren-request@rootsweb.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 2:00 AM Subject: BRETHREN Digest, Vol 9, Issue 33 > > > Plain digests are sent to subscribers with all posts listed in one long > email. The alternative is MIME digests, which for many subscribers will > appear with each post as an individual attachment, although for others, > there is just one attachment. The default digest delivery is Plain, but if > you want your digest in MIME, please contact us at > BRETHREN-admin@rootsweb.com directly and we'll switch you over. > > To reply to a message, quote only that specific message, removing the rest > of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of > your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are > replying. > > To browse the archives, visit > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=brethren > > Thanks, > your co-moderators > BRETHREN-admin@rootsweb.com > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Reasons to be married by a JP (Pat McArtor) > 2. Re: Charles Roszel (john shafer) > 3. Thank you, all! (Melanie Rice) > 4. Re: German Dunkards recent history story (Pat J.) > 5. Re: Thank you, all! (Merle Rummel) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 06:49:49 -0500 > From: Pat McArtor <pmca2@frontier.com> > Subject: [BRE] Reasons to be married by a JP > To: brethren@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <52FF545D.30604@frontier.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Dave, > > I'm so glad that you pointed this out. I heard that this same thing > happened to couple about 25 years ago at the COB where I was attending. > The woman had been attending our services but was not a member. She was > divorced with older children. When she wanted to marry again our pastor > wouldn't perform the service...... I'm sure that this is just another > reason some couples were married by JPs. > > Another point, at least in the early 1800s Quaker community, if only one > of the couple was a member, they ended up being married by a JP or > sometimes a minister of another denomination. Pat > > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:58:20 -0500 (EST) > From:DESloan@aol.com > Subject: Re: [BRE] couple married by JOP > > > When my now wife and I were planning on marrying in Ohio 1969. My wife had > attended a non-denominational church in the country and she said she would > like to get married there. We drove out to the church and talked with the > minister. He refused to marry us because my wife had been married and > divorced, On the way back to town we discussed what our options were. One > of > those options was a JP. > > Thanks, Dave > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 07:35:32 -0500 > From: john shafer <shaferjp@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [BRE] Charles Roszel > To: "brethren@rootsweb.com" <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <BAY407-EAS254F7447054A53CA034AC08DE9F0@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have never heard Roszell as a dunker name. However, although marriage > outside the brethren was not encouraged, it did happen and since the > brethren baptized adults rather than infants young people at times met and > loved people from other faiths. When the brethren partner later desired > to join the church his or her spouse would have needed to do so as well. > Also in some places and times the brethren could be rather evangelical > although we are less so today. So families who were not brethren chose > the faith. This seems to have been true of my shaffer family. It is > interesting that your ancestor is listed as German, but there was such a > mix of peoples in the German states with all the strife and displacement > from the thirty years war etc that people with various ethnic backgrounds > were living in proximity. Your family could even be French Huguenot as > discussed earlier on the list. But not sure where the Anglican comes in > unless there has been inconsistency in the re! > search. Just a few thoughts > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 14, 2014, at 9:49 PM, "Marc Roszell" <marcr@ciaccess.com> wrote: >> >> I apologize for asking this same question again. The first time, I >> quickly received 3 very helpful replies and then a long silence. I think >> somehow I was then disconnected from this list and maybe missed some >> information. As well, the recent discussion raises interesting issues and >> questions I would like to pursue. >> >> I am trying to identify the parents and origin of Charles and Mary >> (unknown) Roszel. Charles and his brother Joseph were taxpayers in Newton >> Twp., Sussex Co., New Jersey starting in 1774. Charles and Mary had 13 >> children, all born there, beginning in 1880. They moved to Lincoln Co. >> Upper Canada (near Smithville in Niagara region of Ontario now) in 1799. >> Charles reported on census his nationality was German and religion was >> "Tunker". There is indication Charles could read and write both German >> and English. >> >> Responding to my first questions, Mr. Rummel confirmed that there had >> been a migration of Dunkers and Mennonites to that area in Canada at that >> time and mentioned the Amwell Church in Hunterdon Co. New Jersey. Dave >> Sloan gave me a link to the Amwell Church and Dennis [orawhist?] informed >> me about "River Brethren". All very helpful. Thanks so much! >> >> Some researchers assume parents of Charles and his brother Joseph (Jr.?) >> were Joseph Roszel and Ann Alcott. This Joseph (Sr.?) and others in N.J. >> with this last name seem to descend from a Major (British likely) John >> Rossel who emigrated from England. Joseph Sr.'s father is thought to be a >> Zachariah Roszel but he has been found to have attended an Anglican >> Church and he is buried in the Anglican Cemetery. Is Alcott a Dunker >> name? >> >> In about the mid 1700s, a Roszel from N.J. migrated to Virginia near >> Washington DC outside Philomont, VA. His son, a young preacher, built an >> Anglican Chapel in their farm and was converted to Methodist when >> Anglicans were unwelcome after the American Revolution. The Roszell >> Chapel Methodist Church exists today in Philomont. >> >> Was Roszel a known Dunker name? I'm sceptical that an English speaking >> Anglican family, name spelled Rossel would morph into a German speaking >> Tunker family, name spelled Roszel. However, if that did happen, >> somewhere along the line someone converted from Anglican to Tunker. Was >> it common for others to convert to Tunker? Was it common for a husband to >> adopt his wife's beliefs? Regarding the spelling - is it possible that >> the "sz" in Roszel was originally the soft - g mentioned by Nancy Cripe? >> Did all the Dunkers come originally from the same group that started >> their faith in Schwarzenau, Germany? And did they emigrate to the New >> World over the same time period? There were German speaking people who >> had settled in other European countries, e.g. Poland, Russia, Ukraine and >> who became displaced persons after WW 1 and WW 2. Did these "colonies" >> exist in the 1700s and did any Dunkers come from these areas? >> >> About 5 years ago I met a Roszell whose family was from the area in Ohio >> originally settled by "Mound Indians". This Roszel wasn't into genealogy. >> I assumed that the connection was with the Philomont Roszels and not us. >> I've since lost contact. But last fall discussion on this list mentioned >> Dunkers had migrated to that area of Ohio. So again I wonder if there >> was a Dunker connection? Does anyone know if there were Roszels in that >> migration? >> >> Thanks to those discussing the Dunker migration on this list. I find it >> very interesting. Re: the one room school discussion from some time ago: >> I attended a one room school here in Raleigh Twp. now in the municipality >> of Chatham-Kent. We played "Eenie Ayenie Over" too but I thought it was a >> British game. >> >> Sincere thanks! >> >> Marc Roszell, >> Chatham, Ontario, Canada >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> Marc Roszell >> >>> On Feb 14, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Gale, >>> >>> You said, >>> *"The Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of >>> the >>> Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre >>> 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who >>> had >>> no connections with the church."* >>> >>> Then, what of John Brower, who married many couples in Preble and I >>> believe, Montgomery counties? Would that have been a different area of >>> jurisdiction? Are you familiar with this John Brower? The Preble >>> County >>> early marriage records list him as performing a number of marriages. >>> >>> Also - am I correct in thinking YOUNCE was distinct from YOUNG at this >>> time >>> / place? >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Melanie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Melanie, >>>> Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The Dunker >>>> minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the Brush >>>> Creek >>>> branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre 1850's >>>> Dunker >>>> minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had no >>>> connections >>>> with the church. >>>> Gale >>> >>> ------------------------ >>> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >>> ------------------------ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------ >> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >> ------------------------ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 07:10:56 -0700 > From: Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> > Subject: [BRE] Thank you, all! > To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CADOsdMAhtHdKAFNJTf4oYmbwroR4M2Pc6m+v-4MprX7BEnaBCA@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Thank you - all of you - for the excellent suggestions and information. > > This should keep me busy digging for a long time. > > I would still like a couple of suggestions for books that would provide a > general overview of early Brethren history, and hopefully some insight > into > what their daily lives were like. > > Melanie > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 10:13:40 -0600 > From: "Pat J." <patiowamom@netins.net> > Subject: Re: [BRE] German Dunkards recent history story > To: Patrick McGarry <hawkwind275@yahoo.com>, brethren@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <338DE5E6-9E06-4B12-8B5B-B50006B0DFB8@netins.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Thanks for sharing that history. :-) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 16:38:45 -0500 > From: "Merle Rummel" <cliff@nwwnet.net> > Subject: Re: [BRE] Thank you, all! > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <d83a499$367fb30a$6baae9a$@nwwnet.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > I would still like a couple of suggestions for books that would provide a > general overview of early Brethren history, and hopefully some insight > into > what their daily lives were like. > > ******************* > > I wrote on these subjects - The Farmer, The Housewife > My especial emphasis was the Four Mile Church, just across the State Line > in Indiana - setting about 1840. One chapter was on the years work on the > farm, in those days. The other was on the housework, daily-weekly and > over > the year - in the more primitive conditions common in those days. > > They are on-line at the website: www.cob-net.org/docs/brethrenlife.htm > file topic: Four Mile Church > > > Merle C Rummel > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the BRETHREN list administrator, send an email to > BRETHREN-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the BRETHREN mailing list, send an email to > BRETHREN@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of BRETHREN Digest, Vol 9, Issue 33 > ***************************************
I would still like a couple of suggestions for books that would provide a general overview of early Brethren history, and hopefully some insight into what their daily lives were like. ******************* I wrote on these subjects - The Farmer, The Housewife My especial emphasis was the Four Mile Church, just across the State Line in Indiana - setting about 1840. One chapter was on the years work on the farm, in those days. The other was on the housework, daily-weekly and over the year - in the more primitive conditions common in those days. They are on-line at the website: www.cob-net.org/docs/brethrenlife.htm file topic: Four Mile Church Merle C Rummel
Thanks for sharing that history. :-)
I have never heard Roszell as a dunker name. However, although marriage outside the brethren was not encouraged, it did happen and since the brethren baptized adults rather than infants young people at times met and loved people from other faiths. When the brethren partner later desired to join the church his or her spouse would have needed to do so as well. Also in some places and times the brethren could be rather evangelical although we are less so today. So families who were not brethren chose the faith. This seems to have been true of my shaffer family. It is interesting that your ancestor is listed as German, but there was such a mix of peoples in the German states with all the strife and displacement from the thirty years war etc that people with various ethnic backgrounds were living in proximity. Your family could even be French Huguenot as discussed earlier on the list. But not sure where the Anglican comes in unless there has been inconsistency in the re! search. Just a few thoughts John Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 14, 2014, at 9:49 PM, "Marc Roszell" <marcr@ciaccess.com> wrote: > > I apologize for asking this same question again. The first time, I quickly received 3 very helpful replies and then a long silence. I think somehow I was then disconnected from this list and maybe missed some information. As well, the recent discussion raises interesting issues and questions I would like to pursue. > > I am trying to identify the parents and origin of Charles and Mary (unknown) Roszel. Charles and his brother Joseph were taxpayers in Newton Twp., Sussex Co., New Jersey starting in 1774. Charles and Mary had 13 children, all born there, beginning in 1880. They moved to Lincoln Co. Upper Canada (near Smithville in Niagara region of Ontario now) in 1799. Charles reported on census his nationality was German and religion was "Tunker". There is indication Charles could read and write both German and English. > > Responding to my first questions, Mr. Rummel confirmed that there had been a migration of Dunkers and Mennonites to that area in Canada at that time and mentioned the Amwell Church in Hunterdon Co. New Jersey. Dave Sloan gave me a link to the Amwell Church and Dennis [orawhist?] informed me about "River Brethren". All very helpful. Thanks so much! > > Some researchers assume parents of Charles and his brother Joseph (Jr.?) were Joseph Roszel and Ann Alcott. This Joseph (Sr.?) and others in N.J. with this last name seem to descend from a Major (British likely) John Rossel who emigrated from England. Joseph Sr.'s father is thought to be a Zachariah Roszel but he has been found to have attended an Anglican Church and he is buried in the Anglican Cemetery. Is Alcott a Dunker name? > > In about the mid 1700s, a Roszel from N.J. migrated to Virginia near Washington DC outside Philomont, VA. His son, a young preacher, built an Anglican Chapel in their farm and was converted to Methodist when Anglicans were unwelcome after the American Revolution. The Roszell Chapel Methodist Church exists today in Philomont. > > Was Roszel a known Dunker name? I'm sceptical that an English speaking Anglican family, name spelled Rossel would morph into a German speaking Tunker family, name spelled Roszel. However, if that did happen, somewhere along the line someone converted from Anglican to Tunker. Was it common for others to convert to Tunker? Was it common for a husband to adopt his wife's beliefs? Regarding the spelling - is it possible that the "sz" in Roszel was originally the soft - g mentioned by Nancy Cripe? Did all the Dunkers come originally from the same group that started their faith in Schwarzenau, Germany? And did they emigrate to the New World over the same time period? There were German speaking people who had settled in other European countries, e.g. Poland, Russia, Ukraine and who became displaced persons after WW 1 and WW 2. Did these "colonies" exist in the 1700s and did any Dunkers come from these areas? > > About 5 years ago I met a Roszell whose family was from the area in Ohio originally settled by "Mound Indians". This Roszel wasn't into genealogy. I assumed that the connection was with the Philomont Roszels and not us. I've since lost contact. But last fall discussion on this list mentioned Dunkers had migrated to that area of Ohio. So again I wonder if there was a Dunker connection? Does anyone know if there were Roszels in that migration? > > Thanks to those discussing the Dunker migration on this list. I find it very interesting. Re: the one room school discussion from some time ago: I attended a one room school here in Raleigh Twp. now in the municipality of Chatham-Kent. We played "Eenie Ayenie Over" too but I thought it was a British game. > > Sincere thanks! > > Marc Roszell, > Chatham, Ontario, Canada > > > > Sent from my iPad > > Marc Roszell > >> On Feb 14, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Melanie Rice <mjrice.denver@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Gale, >> >> You said, >> *"The Dunker minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the >> Brush Creek branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre >> 1850's Dunker minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had >> no connections with the church."* >> >> Then, what of John Brower, who married many couples in Preble and I >> believe, Montgomery counties? Would that have been a different area of >> jurisdiction? Are you familiar with this John Brower? The Preble County >> early marriage records list him as performing a number of marriages. >> >> Also - am I correct in thinking YOUNCE was distinct from YOUNG at this time >> / place? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Melanie >> >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:01 PM, <ghoneyman@woh.rr.com> wrote: >>> >>> Melanie, >>> Your Sherow's lived in the lower portion of Miami County OH. The Dunker >>> minister during this time frame was Elder Philip Younce of the Brush Creek >>> branch or arm of the church. It is very unlikely that a pre 1850's Dunker >>> minister would have preformed a marriage for parties who had no connections >>> with the church. >>> Gale >> >> ------------------------ >> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >> ------------------------ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message