If I may ask, where can I find subscription information to this magazine AND is there a comprehensive name index available so that one can purchace past issues that are relavent to their searches? Blessings, Janet Rogers

Joyce, Yes they were brothers. A third brother, William H. Frantz, married Nancy Martin. The parents of the three Frantz brothers who married the women you are researching were John Frantz and Esther Stover. To learn more about the Stover side you might try reading from Richard Weber's book , STOVER BRETHREN, pp. 140, 240-241. For the Frantz side you might try the Winter 2007 issue of BRETHREN ROOTS. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Underwood" <groovygrammy@insightbb.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz France- Washington County, Indiana > > I have A Christopher Frantz (1816-1900) married Polly Wright 1836. I > don't have parents of Christopher as Wright is the name I'm researching. > They went to Illinois. > I also have a Isaac G. Frantz (1820-1879) married Eliza Ann Voyles 1842 > in Washington County, Indiana. Again I don't have parents of Isaac as > Voyles > is the name I'm researching. They also moved to Illinois. > Am I correct in assuming that these gentlemen were brothers? > Joyce

Frantz family also in Franklin Co Va and Carroll County Indiana. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Underwood" <groovygrammy@insightbb.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz France- Washington County, Indiana > > I have A Christopher Frantz (1816-1900) married Polly Wright 1836. I > don't have parents of Christopher as Wright is the name I'm researching. > They went to Illinois. > I also have a Isaac G. Frantz (1820-1879) married Eliza Ann Voyles 1842 > in Washington County, Indiana. Again I don't have parents of Isaac as > Voyles > is the name I'm researching. They also moved to Illinois. > Am I correct in assuming that these gentlemen were brothers? > Joyce > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have A Christopher Frantz (1816-1900) married Polly Wright 1836. I don't have parents of Christopher as Wright is the name I'm researching. They went to Illinois. I also have a Isaac G. Frantz (1820-1879) married Eliza Ann Voyles 1842 in Washington County, Indiana. Again I don't have parents of Isaac as Voyles is the name I'm researching. They also moved to Illinois. Am I correct in assuming that these gentlemen were brothers? Joyce

Please, which Washington County??? Pennsylvania? Maryland? I think most evern state has a Washington County!! It's difficult to keep track of these conversations if the state isn't repeated in new messages. Thanks ... Mary Jo > I inferred, but didn't say, that some of the Lost River Brethren did > live (at least, own land) in Washington County - as near as I can tell, > in the southern part, not that far from the (possibly later) church > building.. > > I did pull up my Liberty Church Cemetery and Old Union (Kerns Church) > Cemetery files - and there are no Frantz/France burials in either > cemetery. (Old Union was west of Bedford IN, with Elder Abraham Kern > [kin] - as a "Brethren Association" leader there - they, too, went > Disciples of Christ, Christian - after the 1820s.) I do not have > complete records on the Reep Cemetery(s), near Bradford in Harrison Co - > these were the three early Brethren settlements west from Louisville - > on (near) the Louisville-Vincennes Road. The Olive Branch Cemetery > (probably originally named Ten Mile Creek Church, back then) (Clark Co > IN - near New Washington) was where Elder Adam Hostetler (and wife, > Hannah Hardman) are buried, but again, I do not have a complete record > of burials -and I don't think there is one. My Stutsmans (Kern > connection) lived there, and I have found none of their burials. Except > for a very early 2000 Acre land grant, no one seems to know much about > them - even though there are a number of Stutsmans living there now. > > I have found some westerly family migration to have occurred along the > line of these churches - before they took major moves - to Illinois and > west. > > Merle C Rummel > >> The (different) John Frantz who married Esther Stover died in Botetourt, >> about 1822, when his children were still very young. The widow >> remarried >> and moved with her Frantz children to Washington County, Indiana. You >> won't >> find John Frantz in your research of this area, but maybe you will run >> across one or more of his children. His sons were Christopher A. >> Frantz, >> William H. Frantz, and Isaac G. Frantz. I don't have any records on any >> of >> them. >> > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I inferred, but didn't say, that some of the Lost River Brethren did live (at least, own land) in Washington County - as near as I can tell, in the southern part, not that far from the (possibly later) church building.. I did pull up my Liberty Church Cemetery and Old Union (Kerns Church) Cemetery files - and there are no Frantz/France burials in either cemetery. (Old Union was west of Bedford IN, with Elder Abraham Kern [kin] - as a "Brethren Association" leader there - they, too, went Disciples of Christ, Christian - after the 1820s.) I do not have complete records on the Reep Cemetery(s), near Bradford in Harrison Co - these were the three early Brethren settlements west from Louisville - on (near) the Louisville-Vincennes Road. The Olive Branch Cemetery (probably originally named Ten Mile Creek Church, back then) (Clark Co IN - near New Washington) was where Elder Adam Hostetler (and wife, Hannah Hardman) are buried, but again, I do not have a complete record of burials -and I don't think there is one. My Stutsmans (Kern connection) lived there, and I have found none of their burials. Except for a very early 2000 Acre land grant, no one seems to know much about them - even though there are a number of Stutsmans living there now. I have found some westerly family migration to have occurred along the line of these churches - before they took major moves - to Illinois and west. Merle C Rummel > The (different) John Frantz who married Esther Stover died in Botetourt, > about 1822, when his children were still very young. The widow remarried > and moved with her Frantz children to Washington County, Indiana. You won't > find John Frantz in your research of this area, but maybe you will run > across one or more of his children. His sons were Christopher A. Frantz, > William H. Frantz, and Isaac G. Frantz. I don't have any records on any of > them. >

Dwayne, Can you tell me who Esther stover's parents were? Thanks, Pat Dwayne Wrightsman wrote: > Merle, > > Thanks for your input. I'm not aware of a connection between the > Frantz/France families and a "French" family. Most of the information I > have on the John France family that went to Clermont County, Ohio, I got > from John Charles Tippet. I don't recall that I have any information about > where in Clermont County this John France family settled, although I would > be surprised if it were not somewhat close to where the Beckelhymers lived, > as you say, near Ten Mile in the southern part of the County. Mr. Tippet > wrote me yesterday and told me that I was off one generation with the > Beckelhymers. Setting the record straight, the Beckelhymer men who married > the France women in Franklin County, VA, were children of the John > Beckelhymers (father and son) who moved from New Jersey to Virginia, and > not, as I said in my article, of the Beckelhymer/Bechelshammer who was the > Elder of the Amwell Brethren in New Jersey. The latter was the father of > the senior John Beckelhymer who moved to Virginia. Confusing isn't it. > Everyone seems to be named John. > > The (different) John Frantz who married Esther Stover died in Botetourt, > about 1822, when his children were still very young. The widow remarried > and moved with her Frantz children to Washington County, Indiana. You won't > find John Frantz in your research of this area, but maybe you will run > across one or more of his children. His sons were Christopher A. Frantz, > William H. Frantz, and Isaac G. Frantz. I don't have any records on any of > them. > > Dwayne Wrightsman > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Merle C Rummel" <cliff@rtkonline.com> > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 8:17 AM > Subject: [BRE] Frantz France > > > >> Dwayne Wrightsman - Frantz Family, Brethren Roots - just got my copy >> yesterday - >> >> Now I'm going to have to go through primary researches, again, on my >> Kentucky families - but before I start - could there have been a >> connection between Frantz-France, and French? >> >> You answered for me who the Michael France was in Muhlenberg Co KY, but >> I didn't know to look for Shank. I know I saw it - >> >> I found John France in the 1810 Tax list for Clermont County (no, of >> course, he was not yet there - in the 1802 Tax list), but I have to ask >> if you know where he lived - in Clermont Co (it is 30 miles long NS)? >> >> The Bechtelsheimer families all lived in the southern part of the >> County. We had two churches down there, the Bechtelsheimer families >> were mostly in the Ten Mile Creek Congregation - SW Clermont Co (only >> one member of the family moved up to Stonelick). This was where Joseph >> Garber (10 Mile/Obannon/and Shelby County OH - son of Elder John Garber >> of the Flat Rock Church, VA) was the minister (a cousin of John Garber >> of Obannon [Stonelick]/Donnels Creek). They lived between New Richmond >> and Amelia. The Bullskin Creek church was in the southeast portion of >> the county, below Felicity and into Brown County to the east. It might >> be interesting to note that Christian Waldschmidt, son of the minister, >> John Waldschmidt of Berks Co PA) came to near Milford OH in 1797 - his >> wife was Brethren, of the Bollander family who pastored the Bullskin >> Church. (Other families on the Bullskin included the Housers and >> Rhorers of Jessamine Co KY.) [The Obannon-Stonelick Church was in the >> north of Clermont Co - the old Obannon church was just outside of Goshen >> OH, the Stonelick Church, some 5 miles away, is still existing near >> Edenton OH.] >> >> Neither the 10 Mile, nor Bullskin churches remained Brethren - becoming >> Disciples of Christ/Christian following the Great Revival, and the >> conflict with Annual Meeting - after 1820. >> >> You mentioned John Frantz (Esther Stover) family in Washington Co IN. >> This is the old Lost River Church, now the Liberty Church, east of >> Orleans in Orange Co IN. This was on (or just off) the old >> Louisville-Vincennes Road (Revolution - George Rogers Clark fame). This >> was the church of the "Boy Preacher", Joseph Hostetler. It was a leader >> of the "Brethren Association", which led the Pietism conflict against >> the legalism/dictates of Annual Meeting - in the 1820s, and went Church >> of Christ when the Annual Meeting Elders put several of the Brethren >> Elders out here on the Ban (including Elder Adam Hostetler -Clark Co IN >> - uncle of Joseph). No, I had not recognized John Frantz there (I am >> still working on 'Foutz' - had not gotten to 'Frantz' yet - haven't >> researched this area enough). (How am I supposed to get my book done by >> this summer - when there is still so much to look for?) Did some of the >> Stovers go there also? (I'm still trying to find the Elder David >> Stover, who was the supposed founder of the Obannon Church -in 1795 - ) >> >> These are Frantz/France men you mention, that I recognize. >> >> Merle C Rummel >> > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Merle, Thanks for your input. I'm not aware of a connection between the Frantz/France families and a "French" family. Most of the information I have on the John France family that went to Clermont County, Ohio, I got from John Charles Tippet. I don't recall that I have any information about where in Clermont County this John France family settled, although I would be surprised if it were not somewhat close to where the Beckelhymers lived, as you say, near Ten Mile in the southern part of the County. Mr. Tippet wrote me yesterday and told me that I was off one generation with the Beckelhymers. Setting the record straight, the Beckelhymer men who married the France women in Franklin County, VA, were children of the John Beckelhymers (father and son) who moved from New Jersey to Virginia, and not, as I said in my article, of the Beckelhymer/Bechelshammer who was the Elder of the Amwell Brethren in New Jersey. The latter was the father of the senior John Beckelhymer who moved to Virginia. Confusing isn't it. Everyone seems to be named John. The (different) John Frantz who married Esther Stover died in Botetourt, about 1822, when his children were still very young. The widow remarried and moved with her Frantz children to Washington County, Indiana. You won't find John Frantz in your research of this area, but maybe you will run across one or more of his children. His sons were Christopher A. Frantz, William H. Frantz, and Isaac G. Frantz. I don't have any records on any of them. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle C Rummel" <cliff@rtkonline.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 8:17 AM Subject: [BRE] Frantz France > Dwayne Wrightsman - Frantz Family, Brethren Roots - just got my copy > yesterday - > > Now I'm going to have to go through primary researches, again, on my > Kentucky families - but before I start - could there have been a > connection between Frantz-France, and French? > > You answered for me who the Michael France was in Muhlenberg Co KY, but > I didn't know to look for Shank. I know I saw it - > > I found John France in the 1810 Tax list for Clermont County (no, of > course, he was not yet there - in the 1802 Tax list), but I have to ask > if you know where he lived - in Clermont Co (it is 30 miles long NS)? > > The Bechtelsheimer families all lived in the southern part of the > County. We had two churches down there, the Bechtelsheimer families > were mostly in the Ten Mile Creek Congregation - SW Clermont Co (only > one member of the family moved up to Stonelick). This was where Joseph > Garber (10 Mile/Obannon/and Shelby County OH - son of Elder John Garber > of the Flat Rock Church, VA) was the minister (a cousin of John Garber > of Obannon [Stonelick]/Donnels Creek). They lived between New Richmond > and Amelia. The Bullskin Creek church was in the southeast portion of > the county, below Felicity and into Brown County to the east. It might > be interesting to note that Christian Waldschmidt, son of the minister, > John Waldschmidt of Berks Co PA) came to near Milford OH in 1797 - his > wife was Brethren, of the Bollander family who pastored the Bullskin > Church. (Other families on the Bullskin included the Housers and > Rhorers of Jessamine Co KY.) [The Obannon-Stonelick Church was in the > north of Clermont Co - the old Obannon church was just outside of Goshen > OH, the Stonelick Church, some 5 miles away, is still existing near > Edenton OH.] > > Neither the 10 Mile, nor Bullskin churches remained Brethren - becoming > Disciples of Christ/Christian following the Great Revival, and the > conflict with Annual Meeting - after 1820. > > You mentioned John Frantz (Esther Stover) family in Washington Co IN. > This is the old Lost River Church, now the Liberty Church, east of > Orleans in Orange Co IN. This was on (or just off) the old > Louisville-Vincennes Road (Revolution - George Rogers Clark fame). This > was the church of the "Boy Preacher", Joseph Hostetler. It was a leader > of the "Brethren Association", which led the Pietism conflict against > the legalism/dictates of Annual Meeting - in the 1820s, and went Church > of Christ when the Annual Meeting Elders put several of the Brethren > Elders out here on the Ban (including Elder Adam Hostetler -Clark Co IN > - uncle of Joseph). No, I had not recognized John Frantz there (I am > still working on 'Foutz' - had not gotten to 'Frantz' yet - haven't > researched this area enough). (How am I supposed to get my book done by > this summer - when there is still so much to look for?) Did some of the > Stovers go there also? (I'm still trying to find the Elder David > Stover, who was the supposed founder of the Obannon Church -in 1795 - ) > > These are Frantz/France men you mention, that I recognize. > > Merle C Rummel

Hi Betty, Hope you are not too snowed in. A couple of weeks ago I showed your card to a young man interested in Miami County research. I think he took your card with him. When you are back in Plymouth, give us another for the bulletin board at the museum. Karin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty Quier" <waltnbetty1@yahoo.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 6:43 PM Subject: [BRE] Elder J.W. Norris > Per The Peru Republican--March 22,1912 Miami County, Peru, IN. > > Elder J. W. Norris of Marion who is conducting the revival meetings at > the new Brethren Church in Peru was called to Marion Thursday to perform a > marriage ceremony and returned to this city Friday accompanied by his > wife. > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Dwayne Wrightsman - Frantz Family, Brethren Roots - just got my copy yesterday - Now I'm going to have to go through primary researches, again, on my Kentucky families - but before I start - could there have been a connection between Frantz-France, and French? You answered for me who the Michael France was in Muhlenberg Co KY, but I didn't know to look for Shank. I know I saw it - I found John France in the 1810 Tax list for Clermont County (no, of course, he was not yet there - in the 1802 Tax list), but I have to ask if you know where he lived - in Clermont Co (it is 30 miles long NS)? The Bechtelsheimer families all lived in the southern part of the County. We had two churches down there, the Bechtelsheimer families were mostly in the Ten Mile Creek Congregation - SW Clermont Co (only one member of the family moved up to Stonelick). This was where Joseph Garber (10 Mile/Obannon/and Shelby County OH - son of Elder John Garber of the Flat Rock Church, VA) was the minister (a cousin of John Garber of Obannon [Stonelick]/Donnels Creek). They lived between New Richmond and Amelia. The Bullskin Creek church was in the southeast portion of the county, below Felicity and into Brown County to the east. It might be interesting to note that Christian Waldschmidt, son of the minister, John Waldschmidt of Berks Co PA) came to near Milford OH in 1797 - his wife was Brethren, of the Bollander family who pastored the Bullskin Church. (Other families on the Bullskin included the Housers and Rhorers of Jessamine Co KY.) [The Obannon-Stonelick Church was in the north of Clermont Co - the old Obannon church was just outside of Goshen OH, the Stonelick Church, some 5 miles away, is still existing near Edenton OH.] Neither the 10 Mile, nor Bullskin churches remained Brethren - becoming Disciples of Christ/Christian following the Great Revival, and the conflict with Annual Meeting - after 1820. You mentioned John Frantz (Esther Stover) family in Washington Co IN. This is the old Lost River Church, now the Liberty Church, east of Orleans in Orange Co IN. This was on (or just off) the old Louisville-Vincennes Road (Revolution - George Rogers Clark fame). This was the church of the "Boy Preacher", Joseph Hostetler. It was a leader of the "Brethren Association", which led the Pietism conflict against the legalism/dictates of Annual Meeting - in the 1820s, and went Church of Christ when the Annual Meeting Elders put several of the Brethren Elders out here on the Ban (including Elder Adam Hostetler -Clark Co IN - uncle of Joseph). No, I had not recognized John Frantz there (I am still working on 'Foutz' - had not gotten to 'Frantz' yet - haven't researched this area enough). (How am I supposed to get my book done by this summer - when there is still so much to look for?) Did some of the Stovers go there also? (I'm still trying to find the Elder David Stover, who was the supposed founder of the Obannon Church -in 1795 - ) These are Frantz/France men you mention, that I recognize. Merle C Rummel

I found the following in the Primitive Christian, does any one have information on this church? Dennis Olympia, Wash . Primitive Christian Sept. 25. 1877Page 599 Vol. I No. 38 Please announce that we, the brethren and sisters of the Quirl Creek church, Wabash County, Ind., will hold a communion meeting, no hindering providence, on the 17th of October, commencing at 10 o’clock, a. m. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

There were Sneider/Schneder/Schneiders on the Allen in 1729. Jacob wrote his name in his own hand as "Jacob Sneider" on List C. "Anna Margaret Mack" was listed with the women passengers on List A. Most Mack researchers seem to agree that she was Anna Margarethe nee Sneider who according to Mack researcher, Freeman Ankrum, was married to Johannes Mack in Friesland prior to the sailing of the Allen in 1729. The letter written November 3, 1774, from Anna Margarethe's son Jacob Mack to Jacob's paternal uncle Alexander Mack Jr. is transcribed in Durnbaugh (1967) page 256. In the letter Jacob makes mention of his mother's brother, Jacob Schneider, who, by the language of the letter, was living in the Germantown area. I am making an educated guess that the Jacob Sneider on the Allen was Anna Margarethe's brother. If not, who was the Jacob Sneider on the Allen? If the Jacob Sneider (in the Jacob Mack letter) did not immigrate on the Allen in 1729, when did he immigrate, and on what ship? Do you agree that the Anna Margaret Mack woman on the Allen was the wife of Johannes Mack? If not, who do you think she was? The other three Mack men--Alexander Sr., Valentine, and Alexander Jr.--were unmarried at the time of the sailing. So, David, and all other interested parties to this discussion, I'm tossing the ball back to you. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 6:05 PM Subject: [BRE] Schneider family >I noticed that Dwayne Wrightsman mentioned the Schneider family that is > related to the Mack family (see below). I was wondering if anyone could > direct me to any research that has been done on this Schneider family. I > seem to vaguely recall that some researchers believe that some of these > Schneiders came over on the Allen with the Alexander Mack party but I'm > not 100% certain about this. > > Thanks, > > David Myers > > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:10:21 -0500 "Dwayne Wrightsman" > <dwayne55@comcast.net> writes: >> >> An example of the above is that Jacob Mack, son of John Mack and >> grandson of >> Alexander Mack Sr., wrote a letter from Antietam, November 3, 1774, >> to his >> "esteemed Cousin" Alexander Mack Jr. of Crefeld (Germantown), who >> was >> actually Jacob Mack's paternal uncle. In the letter he referred to >> "cousin >> Jacob Schneider, my mother's brother" who was actually Jacob Mack's >> maternal >> uncle. (Jacob Mack's mother was born Anna Margaretha Schneider and >> had >> married John Mack in Friesland prior to the Macks and Schneiders >> coming over >> on the Ship Allen in 1729.) >> >> Dwayne Wrightsman

I noticed that Dwayne Wrightsman mentioned the Schneider family that is related to the Mack family (see below). I was wondering if anyone could direct me to any research that has been done on this Schneider family. I seem to vaguely recall that some researchers believe that some of these Schneiders came over on the Allen with the Alexander Mack party but I'm not 100% certain about this. Thanks, David Myers On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:10:21 -0500 "Dwayne Wrightsman" <dwayne55@comcast.net> writes: > > An example of the above is that Jacob Mack, son of John Mack and > grandson of > Alexander Mack Sr., wrote a letter from Antietam, November 3, 1774, > to his > "esteemed Cousin" Alexander Mack Jr. of Crefeld (Germantown), who > was > actually Jacob Mack's paternal uncle. In the letter he referred to > "cousin > Jacob Schneider, my mother's brother" who was actually Jacob Mack's > maternal > uncle. (Jacob Mack's mother was born Anna Margaretha Schneider and > had > married John Mack in Friesland prior to the Macks and Schneiders > coming over > on the Ship Allen in 1729.) > > Dwayne Wrightsman > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams > mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

for a child of the lower grades (WWII) - older meant adults (age of my parents -maybe 40s - most of these were the Mohler families - coming from Darke/Miami Cos OH back a generation or two before -1880s), there were some in the church who were grandparents, and I honored them respectfully. Oh, yes, I was a "preacher's kid" - on stopping to visit once, the one family asked if I remembered painting their doorknobs. Now, if that is the worst I did - I must have been pretty good! Frank Crumpacker of China Mission, was from our church, but he was mostly not there (I don't remember his wife) - McPherson or Elgin I guess, forced out of China because of the Japs. Merle C Rummel > Could you be more specific age-wise in your delineation of "older" and > "elderly" ? > > As regards children calling non-related Brethren grown-ups "Aunt" and > "Uncle," this apparently was standard practice for Brethren missionary children in > India a century ago. >

I know from reading records and letters that most people in the Old Chippewa Congregation in Wayne County Ohio referred to my great great grandmother Mary Correll Shafer as "Grandma Shafer" whether they were related or not. John Shafer> From: cshotts1@carolina.rr.com> To: brethren@rootsweb.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:36:19 -0500> Subject: Re: [BRE] nephews, uncles, cousins> > I have been following this discussion of the use of "cousin" for family> members with other relationships with interest. I have a copy of a letter> written in 1813 from Peter Trisler, who was with the army in Canada, to his> father in KY after the Battle of the Thames where Tecumseh was killed. At> the close of the letter, Peter writes "Present my compliments to Grandfather> Howser. Will be at home shortly."> > This is my question: Would Peter Trisler have likely referred to> "Grandfather Howser" as Grandfather if he were not his actual grandfather?> I cannot find that Abraham Howser is a grandfather to Peter Trisler; and I> know that he is not a grandfather to either of Peter's wives. I know that> Peter's father and Abraham Howser were close friends, and that Peter's> sister Elizabeth married Abraham Howser's son. Abraham Howser did have a> brother Jacob Howser who also lived in the same area as Peter Trisler's> family. But, I don't know that Jacob had any children, and if he did, if> that child could be Peter Trisler's mother. I have found no other reference> to Abraham Howser as "Grandfather" in any other materials from the time> period, so it doesn't seem to have been a commonly used reference for him.> So, could this reference to "Grandfather Howser" by Peter Trisler have been> more honorific than actual relationship, or is it likely that "Grandfather> Howser" refers to an actual family relationship?> > Connie> > > > -----Original Message-----> From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com]> On Behalf Of William Thomas> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:56 PM> To: brethren@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [BRE] nephews, uncles, cousins> > Not sure what age difference you are talking between the two, but that could> be a reason. From my own personal experience, I did not realize until my> adult years that two relatives we always addressed as aunt (including my> father) were in fact distant cousins. They were the same age as my> grandmother, and were daughters of my grandmother's much older sister.> Since they were the same age as my grandmother, they were always called aunt> by her children and grandchildren. From my grandmother's perspective they> were more like cousins than nieces, since she was the same age. They never> addressed my grandmother as aunt.> > Bill Thomas> > > ------------------------> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN> ------------------------> Support Our Sponsoring Agency> The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG)> For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com> ------------------------> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to> BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes> in the subject and the body of the message> > > > ------------------------> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN> ------------------------> Support Our Sponsoring Agency> The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG)> For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com> ------------------------> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

Sister Maxine...start one! John Shafer> From: max@sanbrunocable.com> To: brethren@rootsweb.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:34:09 -0800> Subject: [BRE] Johannes Hildebrand 1679-1765> > You might want to look in "The Brethren Encyclopedia" for information about > Johannes Hildebrand and his daughter Maria. Both entries give you > references for more information - references such as some of the translated > material from Ephrata. However, I doubt that you will find much about his > sons.> I also grew up in the Church of the Brethren, in Modesto, CA., and am a > descendant of Alexander Mack, Sander Mack, William Mack and so on.> Unfortunately, I no longer live near a Church of the Brethren.> Maxine Driscoll in California> ----- Original Message ----- > From: <OhioWeaver@aol.com>> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 9:11 PM> Subject: Re: [BRE] the people connected to Alexander Mack> > > > Hip Hip Hooray! Now, how do I find those sons? I know all records that > > may> > have been at Ephrata was of course in German. Enough years have past so > > I> > am assuming all and any records have all been translated. Does anyone > > know> > how and where any REAL translated records may be stored? Who is in > > charge of> > Ephrata anyway?> >> > I want to find those names. HELP!!!!!!!! Everyone!!!!!!!! I'll be 72 > > this> > August and I don't have all day! LOL.> >> > All of my Brethren: help!!!!!!!! I grew up in the Brethren church in> > Johnstown, Pa. so I'm a former member and for all those church suppers I > > served at> > and for all those years of singing in 2 choirs and all those years of > > having> > a "piece" to learn for a Christmas pagent (as a child of> > course)---------help!!!!! And thanks to all.> >> >> > > ------------------------> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN> ------------------------> Support Our Sponsoring Agency> The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG)> For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com> ------------------------> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

Merle: Could you be more specific age-wise in your delineation of "older" and "elderly" ? As regards children calling non-related Brethren grown-ups "Aunt" and "Uncle," this apparently was standard practice for Brethren missionary children in India a century ago. Galen **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

I hope that the following excerpt from the Ankrum book will be helpful to this discussion. David Myers "Alexander Mack the Tunker and Descendants" -- Rev. Freeman Ankrum (1943), page 42: "Valentine Mack married Maria Hildebrand, a daughter of Johannes Hildebrand, who had been a member of the church in Europe. He was a preacher of some repute and a fine outstanding man. He and his wife Maria attended the first love feast in America. The young lady whose hand valentine Mack won had had a varied religious experience. She early joined the Virgin Sisters at Ephrata. After living for some time there, she returned to the home of her people in Germantown. She was known in Ephrata as Sister Abigail. To Valentine and Maria Mack was born one child, a daughter, in 1732. The daughter also entered the Ephrata community and was known as Sister Constantia. She died October 31, 1782, at the age of fifty years and three months. She never married. Her mother had passed away on August 11, 1758. After the death of the father of Valentine Mack, he took up his abode in Ephrata along with the father and mother of his wife, John and Maria Hildebrand." ----------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:55:14 -0800 "Maxine Driscoll" <max@sanbrunocable.com> writes: > In VOICES OF THE TURTLEDOVES by Jeff Bach on page 49, is the > following > "Johannes Hildebrand's (1679-1765) immigration date remains > uncertain. He > bought land in Germantown, where he was a tawer (Weisgerber). > According to > Ezechiel Sangmeister, Hildebrand had been married fifty-four years > when he > died. Hildebrand and his wife had five daughters and five sons." > Some of > the footnotes to this chapter include the following: > "The Chronicon names a daughter Eusebia who left to marry. The > Chronicon > also mentions a Sister Abigail, supposedly a daughter of Hildebrand, > as one > of the first four female virgins to live in Kedar in 1735, who left > and > married. It is possible that this Sister Abigail was the later wife > of > Valentin Mack, as the Chronicon claims, because Valentin and > Margaretha Mack > had a three-year-old daughter in 1735, when Kedar was opened. > ........All > the scholarship, significantly Sachse, Brumbaugh, and Flory, has > conflated > these names and persons, and should be disregarded in this respect. > At this > point, the identify of Sister Abigail awaits further research." > . > I have in my notes " Eusebia Hildebrand. Married on Heathens > Pentecost at > Ephrata to ..........Nahor. Moved to Germantown, Philadelphia Co., > PA" - > with no source given ! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <OhioWeaver@aol.com> > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 6:32 AM > Subject: Re: [BRE] the people connected to Alexander Mack > > > > There was a report that mentions Johann Hildebrand a member at > Ephrata > > that > > alludes to him having had 5 sons, but so far, I have found no > further info > > about them. We know about his wife and his daughter who married > > Valentine > > Mack. And I also have traced the Mack's whose name eventually > becomes > > Mock and > > even Mauk. > > > > Does anyone have further info on the 5 sons? Thanks Diane > Marshall > > > > > > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in > shape. > > > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 > > > > ------------------------ > > Search the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > > For further information contact Ron McAdams > mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > > ------------------------ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams > mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Way back when, when I was young - Dad took a church in Missouri - and all the older men and women at church asked for us little boys, to call them "Aunt" or "Uncle" -none of the elderly people did this, and none of them asked to be "Grandpa" Merle C Rummel > Even today "Aunt" and "Uncle" are often used as honorifics for close non-blood friends of the parents. I could see "Grandfather" being used as an honorific also.

In a message dated 1/30/2008 9:14:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, cshotts1@carolina.rr.com writes: This is my question: Would Peter Trisler have likely referred to "Grandfather Howser" as Grandfather if he were not his actual grandfather? This made me chuckle. I spend three-fourths of my time with my daughters at their home. This is the hangout for most of my grandson's friends (we cook old fashioned and bake a lot.) The boys seem to take pleasure in calling me Grandma - and I'm sure if I were referred to in a letter, it would be as Grandma. And I remember calling my friends' grandparents as Grandma and Grampa. It's not as familiar as first names, nor as formal as Mr./Mrs. J. L. Strange, BA, CCHT, RMT Ask me about hypnotherapy or Reiki for pain relief, energy healing, spiritual emergency, past life regression. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489