I will be happy to share any information that I have about the Martin-Ulrich families. Also I would like any information others have. I'm not sure how to accomplish that. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

We have one of those bound books, in which the "Contents" page is slightly smaller than the rest of the book and is inserted just before the "Introduction", which is pages 5-7. Following the "Introduction", pages 9-12 are "Preface", and then page 13 starts the "Northeastern Ohio" chapter. In between the Title Page and the Contents page is a Dedication page, with the statement: "Dedicated / to / the memory of all who have in any way / contributed to the development of the Church of / the Brethren / in Northeastern Ohio". (My / marks indicate the division of the statement into centered lines, the whole statement being approximately centered on the page. Preceding the Title Page is a page with pictures of Simon R. Garver, T. S. Moherman, and Albert W. Harrold. Dwight Farringer, N. Manchester, IN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Webb" <SpiWebb@aol.com> To: "Brethren Mailing List" <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 7:50 AM Subject: [BRE] A History of the Church of the Brethren - Northeastern Ohio (1914) > Morning List, > > This question is directed at those who have an original copy of T. S. > Moherman's 1914 edition of the Northeastern District history of Ohio. At > present I am scanning the work so that I can then create an archival set > of images and a PDF file. I have two copies of the book, one bound and > one unbound, but there is a slight difference between the two. > > The unbound copy has a Table of Contents page that is slightly smaller > than the rest of the book. It also appears that it was glued to some > other page but which page it was glued to I cannot deduce. The bound copy > does not have this page. My question is this. Does anyone know exactly > where the Table of Contents page should be inserted? > > Thank you in advance. > > Wayne Webb > Editor: Brethren Roots > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 2/2/2008 > 1:50 PM > >

In a message dated 2/4/2008 11:09:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, JGLAP@aol.com writes: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN Hi again. I must be confused about what a mailing list is and a Board. I can't seem to find where the Brethren discussion/board is. Would someone please send me the link then I'll be able to reply to the person who needs further info on the Ulrich/Ullery family that I have? Thanks Diane Marshall **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

Good Morning! Please keep your discussion of this family on line, rather than taking it private. There are LOTS of descendants of the family within this group that I'm sure will be interested, including me! Thanks! Mary Jo > Yes they are the same people. >

Morning List, This question is directed at those who have an original copy of T. S. Moherman's 1914 edition of the Northeastern District history of Ohio. At present I am scanning the work so that I can then create an archival set of images and a PDF file. I have two copies of the book, one bound and one unbound, but there is a slight difference between the two. The unbound copy has a Table of Contents page that is slightly smaller than the rest of the book. It also appears that it was glued to some other page but which page it was glued to I cannot deduce. The bound copy does not have this page. My question is this. Does anyone know exactly where the Table of Contents page should be inserted? Thank you in advance. Wayne Webb Editor: Brethren Roots

Wayne Webb wrote: > Morning List, > > This question is directed at those who have an original copy of T. S. Moherman's 1914 edition of the Northeastern District history of Ohio. At present I am scanning the work so that I can then create an archival set of images and a PDF file. I have two copies of the book, one bound and one unbound, but there is a slight difference between the two. > > The unbound copy has a Table of Contents page that is slightly smaller than the rest of the book. It also appears that it was glued to some other page but which page it was glued to I cannot deduce. The bound copy does not have this page. My question is this. Does anyone know exactly where the Table of Contents page should be inserted? > > Thank you in advance. Sounds like the TOC was an errata addenda. If added the way they normally are they would be glued in on a blank page facing the page where they apply. I would say just before the preface, if there is one, or just before the actual book chapters start. (just after the Title page?) Jeff

Yes they are the same people. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

To Lee Ann Davis The people you just mentione: Elder Hans Nicholas Martin b. 1721 that married Susannah Ulrich b. 1727: Is she the daughter of Stephen U. b. 1680, Schwabeland, Germany d. 1749, Hanover, Lancaster Co., Pa. Married Elizabeth Waggoner b. abt 1682 in Germany, d. 1781? If that is so, I wish to confim my data with any that you may have> Thank you Diane Marshall **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

Thanks for the information. My ancestors were in the Dunkard-Brethren movement between 1700-1800. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

I am related to Elder Hans Nicholas Martin born 1721 and was a minister in Maryland at the Brethren Church. He married Susannah Ulrich who was born 1727. She was the daughter of Stephen Ulrich. They were dunkards. Some of the decendants did marry Engles. If you have any information about these people, please let me know. Thanks, Lee Ann Davis **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

A chuckle for today! ----- Original Message ----- From: <RRRhoads@aol.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: [BRE] Englewood Dunkard Brethren Church . The drunkard Brethren started holding services in the newer building in the 1920s after they split off from the Salem Church of the Brethren which is a few miles away.

It was recently announced that the Randolph Twp. (Montgomery Co., OH) Historical Society has purchased the Englewood Dunkard Brethren Church for a museum as the Dunkards are moving into a new building. The Dunkard Brethren is an offshoot of the COB that broke off in 1926. It currently has ca. 900 members throughout the US in 25 congregations. The brick church building was built in the 1880s after the wood structure burned down in 1880. An earlier church was built and used by two congregations of Swankites and Wengerites that spilt off from the Fairview Brethren in Christ that still is thriving across town in Englewood. The drunkard Brethren started holding services in the newer building in the 1920s after they split off from the Salem Church of the Brethren which is a few miles away. I personally have several genealogical roots in two of these churches. Sons of my Henry Warner (17540-1815) who brought his children’s families to Randolph Twp. in 1811 helped found Salem COB. Also Martin Heisey (1795-1884) and his wife Lizzie Engle (1801-1875) were members of the Fairview BIC Church after moving there in 1850. Being cousins, they both were related to Jacob (Yokeli) Engle (1753-1833) who founded the BIC (River Brethren) in 1778. Roger Rhoads **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

I am not related to the Wrights. My ancestor is Elder Nicholas Martin and his wife Susannah Ulrich, daughter of Stephen Ulrich. I'm searching out more information about them. If you know any thing about them, please let me know. Lee Ann Davis **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

Wright-I am wondering about this family also. I know that John Keedy's eldest daughter Nancy married a Wright. I know John was also one of the earliest members of the Lost River Brethren. I am trying to find the name of Nancy's mother and am wondering if anyone might have information on that. The records I have show that John was married at leat twice. His second marriage was to my great-great grandmother Jane Whitely. I would like to learn if I can the name of the mother of his older chidren. Thanks very much. Liberty Church is located on East Franklin St roughly a half mile out of the town center via E. Liberty Road. I was there this past fall. The cemetery has changed some since the last time I was there in 2002. The beautiful old tree in the center island has fallen and many, many grave stones have disappeared. It is still a beautifully maintained cemetery and some folks have obviously set replacement stones. Alice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Underwood" <groovygrammy@insightbb.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Wright > Merle, > Polly Wright was the daughter of Philbert Wright and Mary Molly Sears. > Philbert and Molly were my 5th great grandparents. John and Polly were > 1st. > cousins. > The Blue River Church is still active today and many of the > Wright/Sears > descendants attend this church and are buried in the cemeteries at the > church. > Thank you for the information on Philbert and Elder John Wright. I knew > they were preachers and founded Blue River Church but no idea they were > causing problems. Something new to research. > Joyce > >> I do not know where this Polly Wright connects to John Wright - but this >> puts these Frantz brothers right in the middle of the whole Brethren >> problem there in southern Indiana - a problem that resulted in the loss >> of maybe half of the denomination of that day. >> >> Merle C Rummel > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat, Esther Stover (who married John Frantz, in Botetourt County, Virginia, in 1810) was the daughter of Rev. William Stober and Susanna Miller (daughter of Hans Michael and Elizabeth Miller). Source is Richard Weber's STOVER BRETHREN, pp. 80-81, 140. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Hickin" <pph929@ntelos.net> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz France > Dwayne, Can you tell me who Esther stover's parents were? > > Thanks, > Pat > > Dwayne Wrightsman wrote: >> Merle, >> >> Thanks for your input. I'm not aware of a connection between the >> Frantz/France families and a "French" family. Most of the information I >> have on the John France family that went to Clermont County, Ohio, I got >> from John Charles Tippet. I don't recall that I have any information >> about >> where in Clermont County this John France family settled, although I >> would >> be surprised if it were not somewhat close to where the Beckelhymers >> lived, >> as you say, near Ten Mile in the southern part of the County. Mr. Tippet >> wrote me yesterday and told me that I was off one generation with the >> Beckelhymers. Setting the record straight, the Beckelhymer men who >> married >> the France women in Franklin County, VA, were children of the John >> Beckelhymers (father and son) who moved from New Jersey to Virginia, and >> not, as I said in my article, of the Beckelhymer/Bechelshammer who was >> the >> Elder of the Amwell Brethren in New Jersey. The latter was the father of >> the senior John Beckelhymer who moved to Virginia. Confusing isn't it. >> Everyone seems to be named John. >> >> The (different) John Frantz who married Esther Stover died in Botetourt, >> about 1822, when his children were still very young. The widow remarried >> and moved with her Frantz children to Washington County, Indiana. You >> won't >> find John Frantz in your research of this area, but maybe you will run >> across one or more of his children. His sons were Christopher A. Frantz, >> William H. Frantz, and Isaac G. Frantz. I don't have any records on any >> of >> them. >> >> Dwayne Wrightsman

Do you have the information on Mary Sears? (a family sheet - I'm collecting -if possible - and her parents) Do you have the Blue River Church Cemetery listing? - is that where the Frantz/France men are buried? (I intend to go back down -later this spring) Where exactly is the Blue River Church? (I'd not previously considered its importance) - the Liberty Church is several miles east of Orleans, in Orange County IN - and a little north, toward the Washington County Line. The Liberty Church is the old Lost River Brethren Church -where Joseph Hostetler ("the Boy Preacher") was a leader. I would not really imply that they "were causing problems" - they were just one outgrowth of the Great Revival. They were essentially Brethren, who became involved with the Revival - or the "Restoration" (a return to "Primitive Christianity" - i.e. -the New Testament teachings). The problem came out of Barton Stone's Revival ("New Lights" - Cane Ridge KY), emphasized by the great "End Times" fear of the New Madrid Earthquake. [New Madrid Missouri - greatest earthquake known on this continent - about 8.6 on the Richter Scale - the Mississippi River "ran upstream" for 2 hours - and it is a mile and half across there at New Madrid - it was BAD! It rang the church bells in Philadelphia PA and in Los Angeles CA. Very Strong Aftershocks lasted 2 months -and were strong, clear over here to Indiana Ohio - we are on the New Madrid fault -almost to Dayton OH). The Brethren Jacob Bowers (Muhlenberg Co KY), in his diary, repeats a common phrase of the time: "The Lord is coming - and We are Not Ready!"] These "Frontier Brethren" were holding :"open" meetings, that any who would believed could worship together - including ministers who were not ordained by the Brethren! (horrors). Living on the frontier, they did not hold to the "garb", the Brethren Dress, that was developing (per records of Historian Abraham Cassel). From his statement, almost half of the church was "lost" -at this time. Decades later, in northern Illinois -a reconciliation was made with a descendants of some of these, who had moved away (to escape?) - the "Far Western Brethren". Alexander Campbell, founder of the Christian Church (on which the Wrights partially based the Blue River Church), challenged Joseph Hostetler; "Lets quit arguing practices, and just be Christians!" They practiced Single Immersion baptism - compared to the Brethren's Trine Immersion (Joseph Hostetler -at Annual Meeting in 1821 -persuaded the Brethren that a person immersed only once, was going to heaven as assuredly as one immersed three times). Single Immersion was practiced by other well known Brethren Ministers - of Frontier Brethren persuasion - in Ohio and Indiana. The Annual Meeting Elders rejected it 5 years later - in the mean time, the Annual Meeting Elders sent representative Elders out, Two by Two - to the Frontier. They did not like what they saw. Elder Adam Hostetler, and Elder Peter Han were put on the Ban, and many of the Brethren Association became part of the Disciples of Christ, Christian group. Elder Jacob Miller (of Montgomery Co OH) was taken to "Conference" in 1811, and the Dayton Ohio church was divided Four Ways; Elder William Smith (in the Raccoon Creek Church, Putnam Co IN) had his church taken away form him, and given to another; Elder Jacob Rhorer, at Jessamine Co KY, was told he got "too happy" when he preached -he took his whole congregation and went Methodist (the prominent Methodist - Asbury College, there, was a result). The Brethren Conflict was between the authority established by Annual Meeting and the Elders Body - of out East, who suddenly ran into Brethren in the West, who had held to some variant of the original form of Brethren Pietism, and were different ("strange") - and refused to change to what the Eastern Brethren had become during and following the American Revolution! Annual Meeting rejected them (and they are lost to our records!) This conflict resulted in some Brethren going with the Pietist Eternal Restoration (Universalism); others with the Disciples of Christ (there are reports that the Brethren at the Lost River Church/Liberty Church called themselves "Dunker Christians" as late as the 1850s). There was conflict -and efforts at reconciliation - and many of these churches changed their names: the Clark County IN church called itself "Olive Branch" (offer an Olive Branch of peace) - as did the Bull Skin Church in Clermont Co OH; the Lost River Church called itself "Liberty" (and I've seen that elsewhere); the Hinkston Creek Church (near Mt Sterling KY) called itself "Union Church" (another frequent name - repeated by Elder Peter Han, of that church, in some of his church groups elsewhere). These were those who went Disciples of Christ. Some remained "Baptist Brethren" - but now joined up with others of the English Baptists - and in many cases became the Primitive Baptist denomination. As above, some went Methodist - which was the English branch of the German Pietism. They just were no longer Brethren. This is the research I am working on. My church, Stonelick, a meetinghouse of the old Obannon Church (1795), in Clermont Co OH, is one of only two of these "Frontier Brethren" churches, that did remain with the Brethren Denomination. The Strait Creek Church, a meetinghouse of the old Brush Creek Churches (Adams and Highland Cos OH) is the other - and my Dad pastored there. There are records of Elder Peter Han at both of these. I've put a lot of this together in my papers at www.cob-net.org/docs/brethrenlife.htm - frontier pietism - I'm working at putting it together as a book. Merle C Rummel > Polly Wright was the daughter of Philbert Wright and Mary Molly Sears. > Philbert and Molly were my 5th great grandparents. John and Polly were 1st. > cousins. > The Blue River Church is still active today and many of the Wright/Sears > descendants attend this church and are buried in the cemeteries at the > church. > Thank you for the information on Philbert and Elder John Wright. I knew > they were preachers and founded Blue River Church but no idea they were > causing problems. Something new to research. >

Merle, Polly Wright was the daughter of Philbert Wright and Mary Molly Sears. Philbert and Molly were my 5th great grandparents. John and Polly were 1st. cousins. The Blue River Church is still active today and many of the Wright/Sears descendants attend this church and are buried in the cemeteries at the church. Thank you for the information on Philbert and Elder John Wright. I knew they were preachers and founded Blue River Church but no idea they were causing problems. Something new to research. Joyce > I do not know where this Polly Wright connects to John Wright - but this > puts these Frantz brothers right in the middle of the whole Brethren > problem there in southern Indiana - a problem that resulted in the loss > of maybe half of the denomination of that day. > > Merle C Rummel

Be aware that Wright is an important name in the problems between the Brethren Association of Indiana/Kentucky and the Annual Meeting Elders of Eastern Pennsylvania, Maryland and Virginia. Amos Wright (wife: Elizabeth Lowe/Lau - Brethren family) was a Dunker from the Uwharrie Church in North Carolina. His brother, Philbert Wright, married into the Brethren Sears Family (a Brethren family of Carolina, who had come to Kentucky and now is prominent in these southern Indiana Churches). John Wright (1785-1851), son of Amos, is credited with being a preacher at the Olive Branch Church (Brethren - probably originally called Ten Mile Creek Church), in Clark Co IN (baptized 1808 in the Ohio River -by William Summers of Kentucky -possibly a Brethren Preacher) - but in 1811, under the influence of the Stone Revival and the Restoration movement of Kentucky, he with Amos, Philbert, and others (including Peter, brother of Amos and Philbert) started the "free-will" Blue River Baptist Church, in Washington Co IN. The "Restoration" movement, coming out of the Great Revival, and the immediately succeeding New Madrid Earthquake, directly involved the Pietist Frontier Brethren -including these 'Brethren Association" churches. How much of Pietism this included is only a hazard guess, but the concept of unity and cooperation among Christians is common from Pietism and present in the "Restoration" movement. This was different from the isolationist stance of the Annual Meeting Brethren, resulting from the persecutions of the recent past American Revolution, and resulted in the advice by the Annual Meeting Elders, of "avoidance" (rejection - Ban) toward these "strange brethren" (Pietist concepts of the earlier Brethren of the Frontier) . By 1827 a type of "merger" between the Wrights' Blue River Association, and the nearby member churches of the Brethren Association resulted in what became later the "Disciples of Christ, Christian". Many of the Brethren of Kentucky, Indiana, and Ohio were involved - and this resulted in the Brethren Churches of that area being lost to the denomination. I do not know where this Polly Wright connects to John Wright - but this puts these Frantz brothers right in the middle of the whole Brethren problem there in southern Indiana - a problem that resulted in the loss of maybe half of the denomination of that day. Merle C Rummel >> I have A Christopher Frantz (1816-1900) married Polly Wright 1836.

To:Palsy2003 CC:Histein3 Question Mark = Fragezeichen = ? Uncle = der Onkel Aunt = die Tante Nephew = der Neffe - (der Cousin) Niece = die Nichte - (die Cousine) Nephews & Nieces are Cousins die Neffen & die Nichten sind Cousin & Cousinen Hildegard 1/30/08 ************** Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

Janet, If there is a comprehensive name index, it would be in the hands of Ron McAdams (email address in the tag lines below). For subscription information, contact Ron McAdams (email address in the tag lines below). Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Rogers" <rogers922@intrstar.net> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 11:39 AM Subject: [BRE] Past issues of Brethren Roots > If I may ask, where can I find subscription information to this magazine > AND > is there a comprehensive name index available so that one can purchace > past > issues that are relavent to their searches? > > Blessings, > Janet Rogers > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message