Here is Willoughby and his story:_Honors to Alexander Mack_ (http://www.cob-net.org/mack/honors.htm) **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

I hope the people looking for the Mack immigration has this info:_Brethren in America_ (http://www.cob-net.org/america.htm) **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

David, I'm the one who started that 2006 Schneider inquiry and I'm delighted to find that it's finally getting some attention! I notice, however that in the heading I say "Ship Allen . . . and 4 Schneiders" whereas there were actually 5 if you count Jacob Sneider, or 6 if you include Anna Margaret [Schneider?] Mack. I'm interested, as I've said previously, because I have a Mathias Schneider b Oct 1757 in Bern Twp., Berks Co. but don't know about his parents/ancestry. Of course I'd love for him to be a grandson of the "Mathew Schneider" on the Allen <http://cob-net.org/text/history_allen.htm> On the Allen: Christian Schneider Jacob Sneider Mathew Schneider Magdalene Schneider Anna Margaret [Schneider?] Mack Susan Schneider Here's some info on my Mathias: Mathias married 2 Feb 1779, Rowan Co., NC, Elizabeth Eccle/Ekel, etc. (born Falkner Swamp, PA) Their children: Henry b 31 Oct 1779 Jacob b 1781 John b 1783 (They move to Botetourt Co., VA, April, 1784) Catharina b 1785 (my ancestor) Elizabeth b 1787 (so what happened to the children who should have been born in 1789,91,93?!!) Susannah b Jan 1796 The similarity of some of the children's first names and those of Allen passengers is interesting -- BUT those same first names show up in his wife's siblings and her father. I'm intrested in knowing what led you to get interested in the Schneiders? I've got a conection between the Eccles/Eckles (m John Britts/tz and their daughter married a John Myers (1815, Botetourt Co VA). Any research I can do to be of assistance?? Pat myerswd@juno.com wrote: > First, let me say that I've been doing some research and there are > Schneiders linked to the ship Allen and I'm going to start working on > sorting that out. Second, the subject of the Schneider presence on the > Allen came up on this list in Sep 2006 and I didn't even remember that at > all. Ouch. The following is the URL for the beginning of that thread, > for those who are interested. > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BRETHREN/2006-09/1158622988 > > In fact, I've looked at several other sources and it appears that there > is some dispute about which Schneiders were on the Allen. In looking at > the general subject of this Schneider family, there appear to be several > discrete problems and I think it best to separate them into different > threads to reduce confusion. The Schneiders on the Allen would be one of > those threads so I'll get started on that. > > Dwayne, surely the Anna Margaret Mack on the Allen had to be the wife of > Johannes Mack. She must have been alive when Johannes came to America > since they had two children born in America. And there doesn't appear to > be much dispute that Johannes married a woman with that name. That being > said, there always is going to be a circumstantial aspect to determining > this; I don't think that you get around that. Unless there is a > contemporaneous account that says who the Macks (or Mackins) on the Allen > were, you kind of have to make an educated guess that they are part of > the family of Alexander Mack, the Tunker, since the names match. > > I would be less inclined to do that with the Schneiders -- yet -- but it > seems likely that they are related to each other and to Anna Margaret > (Schneider) Mack -- probably all sibs. The Brethren community was quite > small at that time and there obviously was a lot of persecution of them. > I would think that it would be easier to make it through something like > that if other family members were part of that experience. The people > who didn't have that family support would be more likely to fall away and > leave the Church. In fact, if you were in the Church by yourself (or > with just your spouse), there probably would be a lot of pressure from > your family to *leave* the Church since they would be worried about you, > mad at you, etc. > > David Myers > > > > On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:06:29 -0500 "Dwayne Wrightsman" > <dwayne55@comcast.net> writes: > >> There were Sneider/Schneder/Schneiders on the Allen in 1729. Jacob >> wrote >> his name in his own hand as "Jacob Sneider" on List C. "Anna >> Margaret Mack" >> was listed with the women passengers on List A. Most Mack >> researchers seem >> to agree that she was Anna Margarethe nee Sneider who according to >> Mack >> researcher, Freeman Ankrum, was married to Johannes Mack in >> Friesland prior >> to the sailing of the Allen in 1729. >> >> The letter written November 3, 1774, from Anna Margarethe's son >> Jacob Mack >> to Jacob's paternal uncle Alexander Mack Jr. is transcribed in >> Durnbaugh >> (1967) page 256. In the letter Jacob makes mention of his mother's >> brother, >> Jacob Schneider, who, by the language of the letter, was living in >> the >> Germantown area. >> >> I am making an educated guess that the Jacob Sneider on the Allen >> was Anna >> Margarethe's brother. If not, who was the Jacob Sneider on the >> Allen? If >> the Jacob Sneider (in the Jacob Mack letter) did not immigrate on >> the Allen >> in 1729, when did he immigrate, and on what ship? Do you agree that >> the >> Anna Margaret Mack woman on the Allen was the wife of Johannes Mack? >> If >> not, who do you think she was? The other three Mack men--Alexander >> Sr., >> Valentine, and Alexander Jr.--were unmarried at the time of the >> sailing. >> >> So, David, and all other interested parties to this discussion, I'm >> tossing >> the ball back to you. >> >> Dwayne Wrightsman >> > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I'm adding another migration road to my papers on cob-net.org. This one was first used as the George Rogers Clark Army road from Louisville to Vincennes - then we had several early Brethren Churches along it. Merle C Ruimmel *Louisville Vincennes Road* There were some Brethren who had come north of the Ohio River into Indiana Territory soon after 1800. These were mostly in the George Rogers Clark grant, which is now primarily Clark Co IN, to the north and east of the Falls (Louisville). {Jacob Stutzman, 1802, to near New Market IN.} Squire Boone had crossed the river to the west, settling in Grassy Valley (1802), south of Corydon IN, at the Squire Boone Cave. Primarily, the Brethren of Kentucky moved up into Indiana as it was opened for settlement following the War of 1812. These used the route followed by Clark’s solders, as they returned from the Vincennes Campaign of the Revolutionary War. This route is now primarily followed by US150 to Shoals IN, then US50 on west, to Vincennes, on the Wabash River. This is close to the original path, but is somewhat north of it. The original path is identified as the “Buffalo Trace”. The Buffalo Trace is started at the Ohio River, near Clarksville. It goes northwest to Floyds Knob. At Floyds Knob, the Louisville Vincennes Road came in from the south. The early settlers crossed the Ohio River at Oatman’s Ferry. Oatman’s Ferry left the city of Louisville well below the falls, near the end of Market Street, and landed at Ferry Street, in New Albany. From there, a road went west to Corydon (first Capitol of the State of Indiana), the Vincennes Road went north, and is identified now at State Street, in New Albany, as Paoli Pike or Old Vincennes Road. This goes north to Floyds Knob. The Buffalo Trace went slightly north of west from Floyds Knob to Galena and Greenville (Harrison County), then turned sharply south for a short distance, before turning back west, past the Reeps Cemetery (Brethren Church –named Indian Creek Church), and into Bradford as its main east/west street. From Bradford it continues on west to Central Barren and Hancock Chapel. The Trace then continued on slightly north and west to Cuzco, Crystal and Haysville (Dubois County), going just north of Otwell, to Algiers, Alford and Petersburg (Pike County), then heading northwest to Vincennes. Modern roads are back country from Hancock Chapel, till arriving at Cuzco, where IN56 is followed to Haysville, where 56 turns south to Jasper, but the Buffalo Trace route continues west to Portersville going to Otwell. The Trace cut across to IN356 a little north of Otwell, and goes on to Algiers, Alford and Petersburg. IN61 goes north here, crossing the White River, to Monroe City, Verne and into Vincennes from the southeast. A variant on this occurred early. From Bradford or Central Barren, the settlers turned north to Palmyra (IN135) where US150 is primarily the route followed on to Paoli and West Baden Springs (originally called “Lick Creek” – a Quaker destination). An early Brethren Church was north of Paoli, near Orleans - the Lost River Church (founded c1812), now the Liberty Christian Church. The US150 route continues today to Shoals IN, but southeast of Shoals, at Winingers (the Sampson Hill Church of the Brethren, closed), Old IN550 was the original route continuing west to the early settlement of Hindostan Falls, then to Loogootee (where US50 comes in from Shoals). There US50 continues due west to Vincennes, the Wabash River, to Illinois and eventually, St Louis Missouri.

David, I am pleased that you are taking the initiative to figure out the Mack-Schneider family(ies) that were on the Ship Allen. In terms of the Macks, the only names that are still a problem are those of the two "Mackin" women. I agree that they are somehow related to Alexander Sr. and his three sons Valentine, John, and Alexander Jr., all of whom were on the Allen. Anna Margaretha Mack, as we know, was the Sneider/Schneider wife of John Mack, going by her married name on the A List of the Allen. The two Mackin women are enigmas. Various rumors abound. One is that they were infant daughters of John and Anna Margaretha Mack. I don't believe they were since very young children were not named in the case of the Allen. A second rumor is that they were unmarried daughters of Alexander Mack Sr. I think that this is a possibility that should not be dismissed as easily as it has among the Brethren. A third rumor is that they may have been "cousins" of the Brethren Mack family. This one also deserves scrutiny. Then of course there is the coincidental fact that these two Mackin women were identical in name to the two Mack women who married into the Kitzmiller family in 1730 and 1731, as recorded in the famous Stoever Marriage Records of the day. What makes this even more interesting is that the Kitzmillers had connections with the Schneiders who settled at that time in the Weber-thal area in Earl Township, Lancaster County. One of the Schneiders was a Christian Schneider of the same name as one of the Schneider passengers on the Ship Allen. I detect a Schneider-Kitzmiller-Mack nexus that might need to be untangled at some point. Reading over what I just wrote, it is clear that I just did a lot of brainstorming and need to quit here for now. What do you think? Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Schneider family > First, let me say that I've been doing some research and there are > Schneiders linked to the ship Allen and I'm going to start working on > sorting that out. Second, the subject of the Schneider presence on the > Allen came up on this list in Sep 2006 and I didn't even remember that at > all. Ouch. The following is the URL for the beginning of that thread, > for those who are interested. > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BRETHREN/2006-09/1158622988 > > In fact, I've looked at several other sources and it appears that there > is some dispute about which Schneiders were on the Allen. In looking at > the general subject of this Schneider family, there appear to be several > discrete problems and I think it best to separate them into different > threads to reduce confusion. The Schneiders on the Allen would be one of > those threads so I'll get started on that. > > Dwayne, surely the Anna Margaret Mack on the Allen had to be the wife of > Johannes Mack. She must have been alive when Johannes came to America > since they had two children born in America. And there doesn't appear to > be much dispute that Johannes married a woman with that name. That being > said, there always is going to be a circumstantial aspect to determining > this; I don't think that you get around that. Unless there is a > contemporaneous account that says who the Macks (or Mackins) on the Allen > were, you kind of have to make an educated guess that they are part of > the family of Alexander Mack, the Tunker, since the names match. > > I would be less inclined to do that with the Schneiders -- yet -- but it > seems likely that they are related to each other and to Anna Margaret > (Schneider) Mack -- probably all sibs. The Brethren community was quite > small at that time and there obviously was a lot of persecution of them. > I would think that it would be easier to make it through something like > that if other family members were part of that experience. The people > who didn't have that family support would be more likely to fall away and > leave the Church. In fact, if you were in the Church by yourself (or > with just your spouse), there probably would be a lot of pressure from > your family to *leave* the Church since they would be worried about you, > mad at you, etc. > > David Myers > > > > On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:06:29 -0500 "Dwayne Wrightsman" > <dwayne55@comcast.net> writes: >> There were Sneider/Schneder/Schneiders on the Allen in 1729. Jacob >> wrote >> his name in his own hand as "Jacob Sneider" on List C. "Anna >> Margaret Mack" >> was listed with the women passengers on List A. Most Mack >> researchers seem >> to agree that she was Anna Margarethe nee Sneider who according to >> Mack >> researcher, Freeman Ankrum, was married to Johannes Mack in >> Friesland prior >> to the sailing of the Allen in 1729. >> >> The letter written November 3, 1774, from Anna Margarethe's son >> Jacob Mack >> to Jacob's paternal uncle Alexander Mack Jr. is transcribed in >> Durnbaugh >> (1967) page 256. In the letter Jacob makes mention of his mother's >> brother, >> Jacob Schneider, who, by the language of the letter, was living in >> the >> Germantown area. >> >> I am making an educated guess that the Jacob Sneider on the Allen >> was Anna >> Margarethe's brother. If not, who was the Jacob Sneider on the >> Allen? If >> the Jacob Sneider (in the Jacob Mack letter) did not immigrate on >> the Allen >> in 1729, when did he immigrate, and on what ship? Do you agree that >> the >> Anna Margaret Mack woman on the Allen was the wife of Johannes Mack? >> If >> not, who do you think she was? The other three Mack men--Alexander >> Sr., >> Valentine, and Alexander Jr.--were unmarried at the time of the >> sailing. >> >> So, David, and all other interested parties to this discussion, I'm >> tossing >> the ball back to you. >> >> Dwayne Wrightsman

Anna Margaret Schneider Mack - a second 1700s' reference In addition to the 1774 letter from Jacob Mack (son of John Mack) to his uncle Alexander Mack Jr. referring to his mother's brother as Jacob Schneider (Durnbaugh, 1967, p. 256), I have found a second even earlier record of the Sneider maiden name of John Mack's wife. In Durnbaugh, 1967, p. 176, Durnbaugh quotes from Morgan Edwards c1770 account of Alexander Mack Sr.: "He married Anna Margareta Kling by whom he had three children, Valentine, John, Alexander (now minister at Beggarstown) who married into the Hildebrand, Sneider, and Nise families and have raised him many grand children." Hildebrand is the maiden name of Valentine's wife; Sneider is the maiden name of John's wife; and Nise is the maiden name of Alexander Jr.'s wife. In my opinion, the Mack letter of 1774 and the Morgan Edwards c1770 account (both reported in Durnbaugh) is substantial evidence that John Mack's wife was a Sneider/Schneider. I have no idea how Willoughby got the name of Suderein, but I doubt its authenticity whether written Suderein or Sudere. That is not a surname that seems to exist outside of Willoughby's Mack context. Possibly there was a German script spelling that Willoughby saw and was unable to transcribe correctly. My advice to Mack scholars is to ignore the "Suderein" spelling. Assuming John Mack's wife was a Schneider, that might account for there being Schneider passengers on the Ship Allen in 1729, especially Jacob Sneider/Schneider who was named a brother of Anna Margaretha in the 1774 letter transcribed in Durnbaugh. What do you think, David? Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 12:07 AM Subject: [BRE] Anna Margaret Schneider (m. Johannes Mack) > One of the things I would like to do is establish where the specific > references to Anna Margaret Schneider occur. Here is what I have so far. > > > "Counting the Cost" -- William G. Willoughby (1979): > > Page 114 -- John Mack married "Joanna (Anna) Margaret Suderein from > Germany on February 26 [1725]." > Page 152, Chronology -- "1725, AM performs three weddings, including that > of his son John to Joanna Margaret Suderein." > Page 153, Genealogy -- "John [Mack], 1703 -- ?", married "Anna Margaret > Suderein, 1725." > > "Alexander Mack the Tunker and Descendants" -- Rev. Freeman Ankrum > (1943): > > Page 48 -- Johannes Mack "was married to Margaretta Sneider, likely in > Germany. The Anna Margaretta Mack, whose name is upon the ship list, > must likely be that of the wife of Johannes." > > > These references are, unfortunately, not sourced in either book so I have > no way to explain the mistakes, discrepancies, etc. It is > well-established that the religious community headed by Alexander Mack > had escaped to Holland in 1720 so it is impossible for John and Anna > Margaret Mack to have gotten married in Germany as Ankrum speculates. > And I don't see how he could know about the marriage without knowing > this. > > I remember seeing references to bibles that Alexander Mack had that > contain records of baptisms and marriages that he had performed but I > don't know if I remember right or not. Perhaps someone else on the list > will know about this. I would think that such a bible might contain a > notation about this marriage. Given the handwriting of that era, > Willoughby may have read Anna Margaret's surname as Suderein rather than > Schneider. I do wonder about the Joanna part but he mentions that twice > so it wouldn't seem to a transcription mistake. > > Dwayne Wrightsman says that the Jacob Mack letter, written in 1774, is > found in Durnbaugh (1967) page 256, and that this letter names Jacob > Schneider. I wonder if Anna Margaret's surname was considered to be > Suderein up until the existence of this letter became well-known, and it > was realized, after this, that Suderein must be a misreading of > Schneider. I wonder if anyone on the list knows about this as well. > > Does anyone else have any books that reference the Anna Margaret who > married Johannes Mack in 1725? Getting all of those references that I > can would be a big help in pinning this down -- as much as is possible. > Thanks very much. > > David Myers

Hi Mary Jo There are many of us who are connected to the same Ulrich family. I have found that your best place is to go to ROOTSWEB and do the usual search by name. You'll see lots of us there. Diane **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

Listers, For anyone that may be interested, the Philip Jacob MILLER survery for his vacant property located and lying on a branch of Isaac FUNKHOUSER's mill run, also called Dry Run and located in Shenandoah County, Virginia for 74 acres and dated 22 Aug 1785 has been submitted to the Frederick County, Virginia website. This is a photocopy of the written survey from the Survey book. The address to that page is: _http://genealogenie.net/vafreder/benjmcd4.shtml_ (http://genealogenie.net/vafreder/benjmcd4.shtml) Chocy **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

Information on Englewood Dunkard Brethren: The original church house building was a wooden structure and was donated by David Rasor, Brethren In Christ, and was built by Lewis Wenger, River Brethren. John Wenger and Samuel Herr were numbered among those "founding fathers", who formed a group called, "The Wengerites", thus naming the church, The Old Wenger Church. Research seems to think that the Old Wenger Church possibly organized around the time of the Civil War, December, 1860. In 1861, two divisions of this church occured, one called the Swankerites and the other one called the Wengerites. John Swank presided over the Swankerites Congregation with followers such as: Samuel Longenecker, David Rasor, George Shoemaker and A. G. Marsh. John Wenger presided over the Wengerite Congregation. In May of 1861, a general conference of both branches was called to be held at the Crooked Creek Church at which the men mentioned above attended. Even though there were two divisions, both religious groups used the same church for worship, but at different hours The wooden church house had a partition up the middle as high as the shoulder, when sitting down, which separated the men from the women. The men sat on the left and the women sat on the right. There was no instrumental music accompaniment in the church when the Wengerites owned the building. The wooden structure burned to the ground in 1880 and a brick structure was erected in its place. The brick structure still stands today with an added front piece onto the church. The Dunkard Brethren did not split off from the Salem Church of the Brethren! The Dunkard Brethren split off from the Church of the Brethren at large, on June 23, 1926. The Englewood Dunkard Brethren organized at Englewood, Ohio on July 20, 1927 with thirteen (13) charter members. My grandparents, Ezra Levi and Dorothy (Cassel) Beery were two of the thirteen charters. Last year, 2007, was the 80th year that the Englewood Dunkard Brethren Church occupied the building. It is believed that no musical instrument has ever entered the building to this day. Shirley L. Frick Please note.......the Dunkard Brethren are not drunkards! From: RRRhoads@aol.com Subject: [BRE] Englewood Dunkard Brethren Church It was recently announced that the Randolph Twp. (Montgomery Co., OH) Historical Society has purchased the Englewood Dunkard Brethren Church for a museum as the Dunkards are moving into a new building. The Dunkard Brethren is an offshoot of the COB that broke off in 1926. It currently has ca. 900 members throughout the US in 25 congregations. The brick church building was built in the 1880s after the wood structure burned down in 1880. An earlier church was built and used by two congregations of Swankites and Wengerites that spilt off from the Fairview Brethren in Christ that still is thriving across town in Englewood. The drunkard Brethren started holding services in the newer building in the 1920s after they split off from the Salem Church of the Brethren which is a few miles away. I personally have several genealogical roots in two of these churches. Sons of my Henry Warner (17540-1815) who brought his children?s families to Randolph Twp. in 1811 helped found Salem COB. Also Martin Heisey (1795-1884) and his wife Lizzie Engle (1801-1875) were members of the Fairview BIC Church after moving there in 1850. Being cousins, they both were related to Jacob (Yokeli) Engle (1753-1833) who founded the BIC (River Brethren) in 1778. Roger Rhoads

Good Morning! Can either of you tell me who the children of Susan (ULRICH) and Hans Nicholas MARTIN (Sr.) were? I have none listed. Could a John Nicholas MARTIN, Sr., have been their son? I show he was b: 1740, Lancaster Co., PA, m: 1764, Fredrick Co., MD and d: 1825 (don't know where). Additionally, I show Maria/Mary ULRICH/ULREY as being John's wife, b: 1744, Baltimore Co., MD, d: 1825 (again, don't know where). She was the d/o Daniel ULRICH, Sr. (1718-1785) and Catherine (MNU). I show three children for John and Maria. Any info is greatly appreciated; thank you! Mary Jo > I will be happy to share any information that I have about the > Martin-Ulrich families. Also I would like any information others have. I'm not sure how to accomplish that. > > >

Wayne, My original copy of the 1914 book does not contain a contents page. The dedication, introduction and preface are all there, so the one with a contents page must have been an afterthought. Milton Cook _____________________________________________________________ Learn to trade with confidence! Online Stock Trading. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3mKCauPNM063ugNXaBm9VHYwEO1PdiEDYhALocU1uPMF09hG/

One of the things I would like to do is establish where the specific references to Anna Margaret Schneider occur. Here is what I have so far. "Counting the Cost" -- William G. Willoughby (1979): Page 114 -- John Mack married "Joanna (Anna) Margaret Suderein from Germany on February 26 [1725]." Page 152, Chronology -- "1725, AM performs three weddings, including that of his son John to Joanna Margaret Suderein." Page 153, Genealogy -- "John [Mack], 1703 -- ?", married "Anna Margaret Suderein, 1725." "Alexander Mack the Tunker and Descendants" -- Rev. Freeman Ankrum (1943): Page 48 -- Johannes Mack "was married to Margaretta Sneider, likely in Germany. The Anna Margaretta Mack, whose name is upon the ship list, must likely be that of the wife of Johannes." These references are, unfortunately, not sourced in either book so I have no way to explain the mistakes, discrepancies, etc. It is well-established that the religious community headed by Alexander Mack had escaped to Holland in 1720 so it is impossible for John and Anna Margaret Mack to have gotten married in Germany as Ankrum speculates. And I don't see how he could know about the marriage without knowing this. I remember seeing references to bibles that Alexander Mack had that contain records of baptisms and marriages that he had performed but I don't know if I remember right or not. Perhaps someone else on the list will know about this. I would think that such a bible might contain a notation about this marriage. Given the handwriting of that era, Willoughby may have read Anna Margaret's surname as Suderein rather than Schneider. I do wonder about the Joanna part but he mentions that twice so it wouldn't seem to a transcription mistake. Dwayne Wrightsman says that the Jacob Mack letter, written in 1774, is found in Durnbaugh (1967) page 256, and that this letter names Jacob Schneider. I wonder if Anna Margaret's surname was considered to be Suderein up until the existence of this letter became well-known, and it was realized, after this, that Suderein must be a misreading of Schneider. I wonder if anyone on the list knows about this as well. Does anyone else have any books that reference the Anna Margaret who married Johannes Mack in 1725? Getting all of those references that I can would be a big help in pinning this down -- as much as is possible. Thanks very much. David Myers

Thank you for the response Dwight and that answered it exactly. Now I will know where to insert in the files. Wayne Webb Editor: Brethren Roots ----- Original Message ----- > We have one of those bound books, in which the "Contents" page is slightly > smaller than the rest of the book and is inserted just before the > "Introduction", which is pages 5-7. Following the "Introduction", pages > 9-12 are "Preface", and then page 13 starts the "Northeastern Ohio" > chapter. > In between the Title Page and the Contents page is a Dedication page, with > the statement: "Dedicated / to / the memory of all who have in any way / > contributed to the development of the Church of / the Brethren / in > Northeastern Ohio". (My / marks indicate the division of the statement > into > centered lines, the whole statement being approximately centered on the > page. Preceding the Title Page is a page with pictures of Simon R. > Garver, > T. S. Moherman, and Albert W. Harrold. > Dwight Farringer, N. Manchester, IN

Re: Message Boards I do more Amish & Mennonite research than I do Church of the Brethren. HOWEVER, expanding the scope of this web site does not make things easier. It does the opposite, by making things more confusing. Information overload is far from desirable. That is what I like about this site. It is focused and needs to stay that way. There are plenty of other sites for Amish/Mennonites/United Brethren/etc. Bill Thomas

Ok, so there is no Brethren message board. How does one start one then? More and more people I know have just recently discovered the great info to be had, IF THEY CAN DETERMINE WHAT CHURCH THEIR ANCESTORS may have belonged to. We all know that in the Pioneer days of our country, even the Amish/Dunkards/Mennonites attended or participated in some interaction with each other and many "converted" from one sect to a new one, just because where they came from didn't yet have a meeting house etc. We are all part of one family, so let's make it EASIER to communicate. The fact that a message board can also have e-mail, then lets' make BRETHREN (and while I'm at it, is THIS mailing list for ALL Brethren denominations or just one in particular. Is it Dunkard, or U.B. or EUB or Old German Baptist, or what? Now that feels better. And thanks for giving this a real consideration: mailing list AND message board! **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

What would that give us that we don't have now with the archives? On Feb 5, 2008, at 7:47 PM, OhioWeaver@aol.com wrote: > > > Now that feels better. And thanks for giving this a real > consideration: > mailing list AND message board! > > Gael Entrikin 1508 28th St SW Rochester MN 55902 507 288 3948 Much American consumption is wasteful and contributes little or nothing to quality of life. For example, per capita oil consumption in Western Europe is about half of ours, yet Western Europe’s standard of living is higher by any reasonable criterion, including life expectancy, health, infant mortality, access to medical care, financial security after retirement, vacation time, quality of public schools and support for the arts. Ask yourself whether Americans’ wasteful use of gasoline contributes positively to any of those measures. Jared Diamond

> > There Is no Brethren Message Board. > > JS > Thank goodness! DW

A Hans Gunde was a passenger on the Ship Allen in 1729. A Brother Gundy died, October 18, 1757, as recorded in the journal of Christopher Sauer II. At least one old history book (History of Philadelphia 1609 - 1884, by Scharf and Westcott) lists a Hans Gunde in Germantown with the Beggerstown Brethren during this period (Vol. 1, p. 1314). Also, a Sister Gundi is named as a charity recipient in the Germantown Brethren poor books, and in Alexander Mack's account books, in 1759 and 1760. Does anyone know anything more about Hans Gunde? Dwayne Wrightsman

First, let me say that I've been doing some research and there are Schneiders linked to the ship Allen and I'm going to start working on sorting that out. Second, the subject of the Schneider presence on the Allen came up on this list in Sep 2006 and I didn't even remember that at all. Ouch. The following is the URL for the beginning of that thread, for those who are interested. http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BRETHREN/2006-09/1158622988 In fact, I've looked at several other sources and it appears that there is some dispute about which Schneiders were on the Allen. In looking at the general subject of this Schneider family, there appear to be several discrete problems and I think it best to separate them into different threads to reduce confusion. The Schneiders on the Allen would be one of those threads so I'll get started on that. Dwayne, surely the Anna Margaret Mack on the Allen had to be the wife of Johannes Mack. She must have been alive when Johannes came to America since they had two children born in America. And there doesn't appear to be much dispute that Johannes married a woman with that name. That being said, there always is going to be a circumstantial aspect to determining this; I don't think that you get around that. Unless there is a contemporaneous account that says who the Macks (or Mackins) on the Allen were, you kind of have to make an educated guess that they are part of the family of Alexander Mack, the Tunker, since the names match. I would be less inclined to do that with the Schneiders -- yet -- but it seems likely that they are related to each other and to Anna Margaret (Schneider) Mack -- probably all sibs. The Brethren community was quite small at that time and there obviously was a lot of persecution of them. I would think that it would be easier to make it through something like that if other family members were part of that experience. The people who didn't have that family support would be more likely to fall away and leave the Church. In fact, if you were in the Church by yourself (or with just your spouse), there probably would be a lot of pressure from your family to *leave* the Church since they would be worried about you, mad at you, etc. David Myers On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:06:29 -0500 "Dwayne Wrightsman" <dwayne55@comcast.net> writes: > There were Sneider/Schneder/Schneiders on the Allen in 1729. Jacob > wrote > his name in his own hand as "Jacob Sneider" on List C. "Anna > Margaret Mack" > was listed with the women passengers on List A. Most Mack > researchers seem > to agree that she was Anna Margarethe nee Sneider who according to > Mack > researcher, Freeman Ankrum, was married to Johannes Mack in > Friesland prior > to the sailing of the Allen in 1729. > > The letter written November 3, 1774, from Anna Margarethe's son > Jacob Mack > to Jacob's paternal uncle Alexander Mack Jr. is transcribed in > Durnbaugh > (1967) page 256. In the letter Jacob makes mention of his mother's > brother, > Jacob Schneider, who, by the language of the letter, was living in > the > Germantown area. > > I am making an educated guess that the Jacob Sneider on the Allen > was Anna > Margarethe's brother. If not, who was the Jacob Sneider on the > Allen? If > the Jacob Sneider (in the Jacob Mack letter) did not immigrate on > the Allen > in 1729, when did he immigrate, and on what ship? Do you agree that > the > Anna Margaret Mack woman on the Allen was the wife of Johannes Mack? > If > not, who do you think she was? The other three Mack men--Alexander > Sr., > Valentine, and Alexander Jr.--were unmarried at the time of the > sailing. > > So, David, and all other interested parties to this discussion, I'm > tossing > the ball back to you. > > Dwayne Wrightsman

The Brethren List is a mailing list. Mssages are received as pieces of e-mail, either singly or in clusters, as digests. They can be viewed in the archives, on the web site, but that page is not interactive. Message Boards began life as web sites. You can not only read the postings there, but you can reply to them there. Some, but not all of the Mailing Lists and Message Boards exist as pairs, and in those cases, many of the Messages Boards have been "gatewayed" to the Mailing Lists, so that each new message posted there is transmitted to the Mailing List. A significant difference between them is that Message Boards are "open" to anyone who wishes to browse through them, and who wishes to post a message, whereas the Mailing Lists require an e-mail address to be subscribed. There Is no Brethren Message Board. JS > >In a message dated 2/4/2008 11:09:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >JGLAP@aol.com writes: > >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > > >Hi again. > >I must be confused about what a mailing list is and a Board. I can't seem >to find where the Brethren discussion/board is. Would someone please send me >the link then I'll be able to reply to the person who needs further info on >the Ulrich/Ullery family that I have? Thanks Diane Marshall > -- __________________________ James Shuman, Co-Moderator jshuman@telis.org __________________________