Janet, I did kind of wonder about that Macking surname myself. It obviously sounds similar to Mackin/Macken but I suspect that this is another case where Willoughby has misread the original handwriting. At any rate, I wouldn't place too much importance on how he interpreted the surname. David Myers On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:17:37 -0500 "Janet Rogers" <rogers922@intrstar.net> writes: > I am going to muddy the water here a bit. Have been following this > exchange > with much interest although there is no connection to my line or > collaterals. > > You wrote - Susan Macking > > Someone else wrote that there were Mackenin women (something like > this) on > the Ship Allen. Now, I had thought at one point that someone was > feminizing > Mack - making a Mackinen (however) - meaning women of Mack's group - > BUT - > since this surname of Macking has been tossed into the mix, could > this Susan > Macking been with a group of women and therefore the group was > referred to > as the Machenin (Macking) women? > > Just an observation - like I said, I am muddying the waters... > > Blessings, > Janet Rogers

Hi, I have noted that in my wife's ancestry there were marriages and burials conducted by Rev. Albert Beachler. The families involved were the Murray, Smith and Locke living in Preble Co. OH. The years involved 1890 to 1914. We know he was German Baptist and wore plain clothes and was highly regarded. Does anyone have any additional information about him and his church?? Thanks. Ron Pancner ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

Continuing: FOREIGN MISSION. Florida E. J. Etter, Cartersville, Va., .60; Levi Zumbrum, Wolf Lake, Ind., 1.00; Maple Grove Harvest meeting, 6.02; Julia A. Wood, Bremo Bluff, Virginia, .25; Rock Run church, Goshen, Indiana, 22.26; Miami Center church, Indiana, 1.70; Johnstown church, Pa., 7.40; George S. Byerly, Lima, Ohio, 5.00; Greenland church, Grant Co., W. Va., 10.00; Morrill church, Kansas, 3.20; Silver Creek church, Ohio, 14.59; G. V. & Eliza Kollar, New Phila, Pa. (sic), 10.00; Spring Creek church, Indiana, 4.36; Daniel Emmert, Mt. Morris, Illinois, 1.00; Vermillion church, Illinois, 1.10; Roann church, Indiana, 2.50 APPROPRIATIONS. J. M. Snyder, Brudederbote(italicized) to Europe, $60.00, Danish and Swedish Missions, 381.00; Mission work in Dakota, 50.00; For meeting house in California, 100.00; Daniel Vaniman, traveling expenses, 8.95 D. L. Miller, Treas. Donations for the Poor. Mary Hosford, .40; J. Q. Reed, W. Va., .40; David Bowersox, Ia., .50;J. D. Wilkison, Ill., 25; Mary Sheets, Va., .15; Maria Baer, Pa., 1.90; Isaac Henricks, Ill., 1.00; Henry Lilligh, Ill., .40; Elizabeth Zook, Ill., 1.25; C. Chaffern, Wis, 1.40; Wm. Wallace, Ia., .30; Mary A. Hoofstitler, Pa., .40; E. Goughnour, Mont., .50; Daniel Sheller, Ia., .75; A. W. Shafer, O., .60; Mary Hedge, Pa., .40; Fanny Fogle, Ind., 1.00; W. H. Gift, Ill., .75; Mary E. Martin, Ia., .50; Salem church, Ore., 3.25; Powell's Valley church, Ore., 2.05; A brother, Mo., 5.00; Sophia Rose, O., .15; H. G. Breese, Kan., 1.00; Eliza Flock, Ia., 1.00; Amos Hoover, Ia., .50; A brother, Lanark, Ill., 1.50; Elijah Umbell, Pa., .50; Wm. Holsinger, Kan., .50; John Leedy, Kan., 1.40; Riley Stump, Mo., .50; A sister, Lanark, Ill., 1.00; Isaac Kinsey, Ind., .40. <end of part 3> This completes the list of donations. I would like to remind subscribers to the Brethren list that due to the kindness of Friend Dennis Roth, a frequent writer to this list, we have the 1903 Brethren's Family Almanac on the Internet. It, the Alamanac, can be found at http://www.rothweb.com/almanacs/1903/index.html and my thanks once again to Dennis for hosting the site for me. Wayne Webb Editor: Brethren Roots

Continuing from the previous email. Lewis Keim and wife, and sister Canfield, Kent, Iowa, 1.30; Nettle Creek church, Wayne Co., Ind., 30.00; A sister, Sangersville, Virginia; .50; Quinter church, Kansas, 5.35; Walnut Grove S. S., Plattsburgh, Mo., 5.10; Sister Robins, Adaline, Illinois, .25; Sarah Brandt, Trotwood, Ihio, .50; Pleasant Valley church, Indiana, .50; Loraine church, Illinois, 4.85; Louisa Davidson, Centerburg, Ohio, .40; William Waltz, Survey, Kansas, .35; Seneca County church, Ohio, 9.00; Millmine church, Piatt Co., Illinois, 4.20; Clear Creek church, Huntington Co., Indiana, Foreign Mission, 5.00; David Bowersox, Ollie, Iowa, 1.00; David Bowersox, Ollie, Iowa, 1.00; Chiques church, Lancaster Co., Pa., 15.00; Ozawkie church, Kansas, 6.00; M. Hull, Attics, Ohio, .60; W. H. Slabaugh, Lamar, Missouri, 3.00; Eliza Beckner, Ligonier, Pa., 1.00; Stanton church, Stark Co., Ohio, 5.00; Pine Creek church, Ogle Co., Ill., 6.50; Mary Wilson, Iowa, 5.00; George W. Trone, Astoria, Illinois, .25; Bremen church, Indiana, 1.25; Mary Kinsey, Baldwin, Kansas, .50; Sally Berkly, Waterloo, Iowa, 1.00; Levi Miller, Mexico, Indiana, 5.00; Rebecca Miller, Mexico, Indiana, 5.00; A friend, 1.00; Hickory Grove church, Miami Co., O., 2.50; John M. Kepler, Bloomingburg, Ind., 1.50; Kingman church, Kingman Co., Kan., .65; Lost Creek church, Juniata Co., Pa., 2.35; J. V. Baker, Jagger, Ohio, .25; Blue River church, Whitley Co., Ind., 9.50; Cherry Grove church, Lanark, Ill., 12.50; Milledgeville church, Carroll Co., Ill., 13.25; E. R. Weimer, Long Creek, Oregon, 2.00; James Kurtz, Womelsdorf, Pa., .50; Eliza Flack, Waterloo, Iowa, 11.00; Turkey Creek church, Nebraska, 2.65; Yellow Creek church, Pa., 9.72; Jacob Lucas, Mohican church, Ohio, 1.35; Cornelia Moer, Mohican church, Ohio, .52; Anna Harman, Mohican church, Ohio, .20; Wm. McFadden & wife, Mohican church, Ohio, .93; Coon River church, Iowa, 4.75; South Beatrice church, Nebraska, 2.50; achel C. Merchant, La Porte, Ind., 1.05; Lamersville church, Blair Co., Pa., 5.64; Bethel church (seven donors), Nebr., 2.75; Mt. Morris S. S., Mt. Morris, Illinois, 10.55; Hannah Farnsworth, Washington, Ia., .40; Joseph Holsopple, Hagerstown, Ind., 9.00; Jos. Dague, Washington church, Kan., .65; F. Hautz, Abilene, Kansas, 3.00; John Forney, Abilene, Kansas, .50; J. M. Keeny, Port Allegheny, Pa., 1.00; Libertyville church, Iowa, 2.00; Rock River church, Lee Co., Illinois, 44.00; Silver Creek church, Ogle Co., Ill., 3.00; Buffalo church, Union County, Pa., 3.31; Elias Fouts, Chili, Indiana, 1.00; South Bend church, Indiana, 4.00; Lanark church, Carroll Co., Illinois, 12.30; Henry Trimmer, Mt. Pleasant, Pa., .40; Sarah Stoneruck, Clarence, Iowa, 1.00; Anna Wolfe, Cardington, Ohio, 1.00; Henry Balsbaugh, Harrisburgh, Pa., 1.30; Beaver Run church, West Virginia, 8.00; Mrs. D. M. Baughman, Pulaski, Iowa, .40; Mrs. E. J. Hunt, Pomeroy, Wash. Ter., 5.00; McPherson church, Kansas, 2.65; Woodland church, Fulton Co., Ill., 3.40; Hurricane Creek ch'h, Bond Co., Ill., 2.00; Pleasant Hill ch'h, Macoupin Co., Ill., 5.35. <end of part 2>

Afternoon List, I came across this interesting list of people from the above mentioned issue of the Gospel Messenger. Since it lists people and congregations from across the United States I thought that perhaps others might be interested in the lists. The list will be truncated into several emails, all denoted by a number at the end of the subject heading of the email, because of the size of the list. Though I will be typing the list in a paragraph format the original was in tabular columns. There may be errors on my part, and on this I apologize in advance, but give me a break as it will take several hours to type this all up. Treasurer's Report. The following is the report of the General Mission Committee for the quarter ending Jan. 8, 1887. All money received after the above date will appear in the next report. GENERAL MISSION. Mrs. S. C. A. Conrad Grove, Ia., $1.50; Youthful Missionary Workers, Covington, Ohio, 1.20; Waddam's Grove church, Ill., 27.75; Chelsea Sunday-school, Ill., 3.15; Mound church, Bates Co., Mo., 1.75; Abilene church, Kan., 3.40; Geo. S. Byerly and wife, Lima, Ohio, 5.00; St. Joseph Valley church, Ind., 8.71; Sister Young, Knob Creek ch'h, Tenn., 2.00; Pigeon Creek church, Ill., 2.00; Logan church, Logan Co., Ohio, 29.40; Margaret Seider, Grovertown, Ind., 1.00; John Renner, Longmont, Colo., 5.00; Price's Creek church, O., 2.50; Julia A. Frame, Lane, Kan., .10; Mexico church, Miami Co., Ind., 5.50; Naperville church, Ill., 14.93; M. E. Stutzman, Rosstown, Tex., 1.00; Jesse Wagoner, .70; A brother, Chalfants, Ohio, 1.00; Mrs. A. C. Barr, .50; Collected by A. C. Schwenk, Sugar Valley, Pa., 6.35; J. Barrick, Byron, Ill., 5.00; Geo. Benner, Curlew, Wash. Terr'y, 1.70; Alex. A. Ownly, Decatur City, Iowa, 1.01; Moscow church, Idaho Territory, 5.10; Newton church, Kan., from S. E. Cornelius, 3.60; Upper Stillwater church, Ohio, 15.32; A brother, Sidney, Nebraska, 1.00; E. Walters, Masontown, Pa., 1.00; Upper Fall Creek church, Indiana, 11.00; W. D. Lichty, Iowa City, Iowa, 1.00; Covington church, Ohio, 20.10; Lydia Leedy, Andrews, Indiana, 1.00; Macoupoin Creek church, Illinois, 4.00; North Manchester social meeting, Ind., 5.00; Pleasant View S. S., Ogle Co., Illinis, .55; Lydia Miller, Ligonier, Pa., 50.00; Newton church, Miami Co., Ohio, 15.00; Panther Creek church, Iowa, 10.00; I. S. Metzger, Cerro Gordo, Illinois, 11.00; Summit church, Somerset Co., Pa., 10.18; West Branch church, Ogle Co., Ill., 3.50; Cedar Creek ch'h, Anderson Co., Kan., 2.00; Big Grove church, Iowa, 7.00; Paluse church, Idaho and Wash Ter., 1.50; Laura Shindel, Funkstown, Md., 1.00; Milledgeville church, Carroll Co., Ill., 18.25; Silver Creek church, Ohio, 16.00; Geo A. Moomaw, Northville, Dakota, .50; Jacob Gauby, Garden City, Kansas, 1.00; F. C. Myers and wife, 4028 25th St., St. Louis Missouri, 5.00; Cyrus Bucher's children, Astoria, Ill., 1.05; Geo. V. & Eliza Koller, New Phila., O., 10.00; Rachel Johnson, Santa Fe, Indiana, .30; May R. Mohler, Clyde, Kansas, .25; Hudson church, Hudson, Illinois, 7.55; Panther Creek church, Roanoke, Ill., 11.00; Lizzie Barndollar, Everett, Pa., 6.00; South Bend church, Indiana, 6.00; Mahoning church, Ohio, 11.00; Spring Creek chu'h Kosciusko Co., Ind., 2.50; Ludlow church, Darke Co., Ohio, 18.65; English River church, Iowa, 9.80; West Otter Creek church, Illinois, 2.75; Hanah Cory, Etna Mill, California, 1.00; Lirmier church, Shelby Co., Ohio, 2.40; Warrior's Mark church, Pa., 6.00; Elizabeth Grabill, West Earl, Pa., .50; Sister Gibson's Children's Mission, 10.00; Jesse Royer, Holiday Missouri, .90; Abram Toms, Cairo, Iowa, 2.00; Church of Southern California, 5.00; Daniel Emmery, Mt. Morris, Illinois, 1.00; Peter Wright, North Manchester, Ind., 1.00; Moses Hoover, North Manchester, Ind., 1.00; Mart Hoover, North Manchester, Ind., 1.00; Kingley's church, Kingley, Iowa, 8.25; J. S. Gabel, Osceola, Nebraska, 8.00; C. H. Harnley, Chatham, Illinois, 2.35; Lydia Leedy, Andrews, Indiana, 1.00; Lower Twin Valley church, Ohio, 4.35; Mary C. Wampler, Brown Co., Dak., .30; Silver Creek church, Ogle, Co., Ill., 26.50; Silver Creek church, Ogle Co., Ill. 15.14. <end of part 1>

I am going to muddy the water here a bit. Have been following this exchange with much interest although there is no connection to my line or collaterals. You wrote - Susan Macking Someone else wrote that there were Mackenin women (something like this) on the Ship Allen. Now, I had thought at one point that someone was feminizing Mack - making a Mackinen (however) - meaning women of Mack's group - BUT - since this surname of Macking has been tossed into the mix, could this Susan Macking been with a group of women and therefore the group was referred to as the Machenin (Macking) women? Just an observation - like I said, I am muddying the waters... Blessings, Janet Rogers ----- Original Message ----- From: <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:56 PM Subject: [BRE] Christain Schneider marriage, 1725 > Alexander Mack performed a marriage for Christian Schneider in Holland > and here is Willoughby's account. It's rather disconcerting that the two > paragraphs contradict one another slightly but I don't have any > additional information to resolve that. > > David Myers > > -------------------------------- > "Counting the Cost" -- William G. Willoughby (1979), page 114: > > "During 1725, Mack performed a number of baptisms and at least three > marriages in Holland .........." > > "In April, Mack performed a third marriage, that of Christian Schneider > and Susan Macking, both from Germany. This was the last of seven > recorded marriages performed by Mack in Surhuisterveen. Five of these > young couples migrated with Mack to the New World." > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1266 - Release Date: 2/8/2008 > 10:06 AM > >

Does anyone know if, or how, the Joshua Harley (ca.1745-1831) who lived at Burkittsville, Maryland, connects to this Harley family?? The folklore in Maryland holds that he did come from Harleysville, but do not say much else. Was Joshua descended from Peter Becker?? Joshua's youngest daughter, Matilda (1804-1862), rests in the grounds of Providence Baptist Church, Wither's Mill, Miller Township, Marion County, Missouri, beside her husband, Ezra Slifer (1803-1865). At 01:25 AM 2/8/08 -0500, ORWAHIST@aol.com wrote: >The Primitive Christian and The Pilgrim December 24, 1878 page 809 Death >of Elder Harley. Harleysville, Pa., Dec. 10, 1878. Dear Brethren: At >the request of many of the friends and brethren I inform you of the death >of our dear old brother, Eld, Samuel Harley, who was well know to you for >many years. They desire that it be published in your paper, and also in >the B. A. W., as he was so extensively known. Elder Samuel Harley was >born on the 26th of Nov. 1795, and died at the residence of his only son >Jonas Harley, (on the premise where he lived ever since he commenced >housekeeping) October 26th, 1878, aged 82 years and 11 months. He was >the great-grand son of Eld. Peter Becker of Germantown, who was the first >minister of the Brethren in America. He came over in 1719, ten years >before Alexander Mack. His grandmother was P. Becker’s daughter, who >was married to his grandfather Rudolph Harley. His father’s name was >Abraham Harley. Elder Samuel Harley has two brothers in the ministry – >one older and one younger than himself – namely Abraham and Benjamin >yet living. His grandfather Rudolph Harley was also a minister, and the >first that ever preached at Indian Creek. He died in 1809, at an advance, >and is also buried here in the family burying ground by the side of this >father-in-law, Peter Becker, who died in 1754. Eld. Samuel Harley was >first chosen with my father to the office of deacon but was soon after >called to the ministry, in which he served the Church with >unflinching faithfulness for nearly fifty years, about thirty of which as >an elder, having for many hears the entire oversight of all the members >in Montgomery, Bucks and Lehigh counties, and very frequently assisted >the brethren in Chester, Lancaster, York, Lebanon, Dauphin and other >counties in holding lovefeast, &c. he was eminently a peace-make, and >the happy instrument in the hands of the Lord in adjusting old broils and >difficulties of various kinds. But his labors, manifold and arduous as >they have been, are now ended on earth, and we believe then home as a >sheaf fully ripe in the garner of the Lord. He was not able to speak much >for the last two years. His afflictions were oft times very severe and >painful without a mummer or the least complaint, but anxious for >his release. He had his sense until the last moment of his life, and >died quite calm and serene without any struggle, or even the moving of a >muscle.

Pat, My ancestors are Johannes and Anna Margaret (Schneider) Mack, son and daughter-in-law of Alexander Mack, Sr. I am interested in the Schneiders on the Allen on the assumption that they may well be relatives of Anna Margaret. Thanks for the offer to help, but my Myers family is not from that part of the country (VA) and very rarely was Brethren. David Myers On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:13:14 -0500 Pat Hickin <pph929@ntelos.net> writes: > David, > I'm intrested in knowing what led you to get interested in the > Schneiders? > I've got a conection between the Eccles/Eckles (m John Britts/tz and > > their daughter married a John Myers (1815, Botetourt Co VA). > > Any research I can do to be of assistance?? > > Pat

Alexander Mack performed a marriage for Christian Schneider in Holland and here is Willoughby's account. It's rather disconcerting that the two paragraphs contradict one another slightly but I don't have any additional information to resolve that. David Myers -------------------------------- "Counting the Cost" -- William G. Willoughby (1979), page 114: "During 1725, Mack performed a number of baptisms and at least three marriages in Holland .........." "In April, Mack performed a third marriage, that of Christian Schneider and Susan Macking, both from Germany. This was the last of seven recorded marriages performed by Mack in Surhuisterveen. Five of these young couples migrated with Mack to the New World."

The Primitive Christian and The Pilgrim December 24, 1878 page 809 Death of Elder Harley. Harleysville, Pa., Dec. 10, 1878. Dear Brethren: At the request of many of the friends and brethren I inform you of the death of our dear old brother, Eld, Samuel Harley, who was well know to you for many years. They desire that it be published in your paper, and also in the B. A. W., as he was so extensively known. Elder Samuel Harley was born on the 26th of Nov. 1795, and died at the residence of his only son Jonas Harley, (on the premise where he lived ever since he commenced housekeeping) October 26th, 1878, aged 82 years and 11 months. He was the great-grand son of Eld. Peter Becker of Germantown, who was the first minister of the Brethren in America. He came over in 1719, ten years before Alexander Mack. His grandmother was P. Becker’s daughter, who was married to his grandfather Rudolph Harley. His father’s name was Abraham Harley. Elder Samuel Harley has two brothers in the ministry – one older and one younger than himself – namely Abraham and Benjamin yet living. His grandfather Rudolph Harley was also a minister, and the first that ever preached at Indian Creek. He died in 1809, at an advance, and is also buried here in the family burying ground by the side of this father-in-law, Peter Becker, who died in 1754. Eld. Samuel Harley was first chosen with my father to the office of deacon but was soon after called to the ministry, in which he served the Church with unflinching faithfulness for nearly fifty years, about thirty of which as an elder, having for many hears the entire oversight of all the members in Montgomery, Bucks and Lehigh counties, and very frequently assisted the brethren in Chester, Lancaster, York, Lebanon, Dauphin and other counties in holding lovefeast, &c. he was eminently a peace-make, and the happy instrument in the hands of the Lord in adjusting old broils and difficulties of various kinds. But his labors, manifold and arduous as they have been, are now ended on earth, and we believe then home as a sheaf fully ripe in the garner of the Lord. He was not able to speak much for the last two years. His afflictions were oft times very severe and painful without a mummer or the least complaint, but anxious for his release. He had his sense until the last moment of his life, and died quite calm and serene without any struggle, or even the moving of a muscle. Abram H Cassel **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

Dwayne, thanks so much for the second reference to Anna Margaret's surname. And it's a contemporaneous account, which is always nice. Pretty cool. I'm still working on some Schneider posts but I don't know how it will shake out yet since I have a big mess so far. There are a lot more potential leads than I thought, which is better than having none at all, but it needs some major pruning to see what I actually have. David On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:47:24 -0500 "Dwayne Wrightsman" <dwayne55@comcast.net> writes: > Anna Margaret Schneider Mack - a second 1700s' reference > > In addition to the 1774 letter from Jacob Mack (son of John Mack) to > his > uncle Alexander Mack Jr. referring to his mother's brother as Jacob > Schneider (Durnbaugh, 1967, p. 256), I have found a second even > earlier > record of the Sneider maiden name of John Mack's wife. In > Durnbaugh, 1967, > p. 176, Durnbaugh quotes from Morgan Edwards c1770 account of > Alexander Mack > Sr.: "He married Anna Margareta Kling by whom he had three > children, > Valentine, John, Alexander (now minister at Beggarstown) who married > into > the Hildebrand, Sneider, and Nise families and have raised him many > grand > children." Hildebrand is the maiden name of Valentine's wife; > Sneider is > the maiden name of John's wife; and Nise is the maiden name of > Alexander > Jr.'s wife. > > In my opinion, the Mack letter of 1774 and the Morgan Edwards c1770 > account > (both reported in Durnbaugh) is substantial evidence that John > Mack's wife > was a Sneider/Schneider. I have no idea how Willoughby got the name > of > Suderein, but I doubt its authenticity whether written Suderein or > Sudere. > That is not a surname that seems to exist outside of Willoughby's > Mack > context. Possibly there was a German script spelling that > Willoughby saw > and was unable to transcribe correctly. My advice to Mack scholars > is to > ignore the "Suderein" spelling. > > Assuming John Mack's wife was a Schneider, that might account for > there > being Schneider passengers on the Ship Allen in 1729, especially > Jacob > Sneider/Schneider who was named a brother of Anna Margaretha in the > 1774 > letter transcribed in Durnbaugh. > > What do you think, David? > > Dwayne Wrightsman

Donna, you raise a valid point. Some of my question marks include: John Gunde, Christian Schneider, Valentine Becker, three of the five Kropf men, and John Slaughter. Reinhard Hammer is also a question mark of sorts, and there are others. I started with quite a few more question marks but was able to get some answers by finding out who some of my question marks married. Uncovering the intermarriages between the Ship Allen Brethren has proven instructive. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna and Peter" <moulder@city-net.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Others on the Ship Allen > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman: > Contrary to Brumbaugh, it is > fairly easy to prove that many of the passengers were not Brethren. The > more difficult part is to differentiate between a few of the passengers > who > represent question marks. > > > > > If you tell us about your "Question Marks," we might have some useful > comments. > > Donna

-----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman: Contrary to Brumbaugh, it is fairly easy to prove that many of the passengers were not Brethren. The more difficult part is to differentiate between a few of the passengers who represent question marks. If you tell us about your "Question Marks," we might have some useful comments. Donna

Patrick McGarry <hawkwind275@yahoo.com> wrote: Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:44:52 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick McGarry <hawkwind275@yahoo.com> Subject: Full obit for Joan Lavy please To: ohmiami@rootsweb.com, ghoneyman@woh.rr.com, pegraham1@comcast.net If somebody can get me the full obit for (do not post on Brethren Listserv, as too contemporary I have learned from trying to send before): News Death Notice LAVY, Joan 69 of Arcanum, Tues., Feb. 5. Service 10am Sun. Painter Creek Old German Baptist Church. (Kreitzer Funeral Home, Arcanum) Published in the Dayton Daily News on 2/7/2008. that probably appear in the Greenville Daily Advocate, I would appreciate it please. Also anybody know hot directly connected to Alberta Lavy Sarver- would Joan been related to the Miller (Johann Mueller) family? THanks There is full obit today in both Troy and Piqua papers for Chester Deaton, that has some Flory's in it, as he was as well Old German Baptist. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

In a message dated 2/7/2008 1:24:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dwayne55@comcast.net writes: David, The Brethren Encyclopedia (BE) article on the Schneider Family was written by Robert A. Longbottom and was published in BE in 1983. Mr. Longbottom (aka Shorttop) is an active member of this list and wrote one of the 2006 messages that you posted yesterday. Dwayne Wrightsman Hello Dwayne and all, I have silently watched all the web talk on this and laughed to myself thinking " boy am I in for it now". 25 years ago, there was a theory that our Jacob Snider Sr of Back Creek, Berkeley Co., (West) Va was a son of Christian Snider, one of the Snider's on the Ship Allen. As I recall, Christian had a son Jacob that he left 5 lbs to in his will and "NO MORE" in Lancaster Co., Pa. It seemed like maybe Christian had already given Jacob his due or was unhappy with him for some reason. This theory was sort of squelched when it was determined that Christian's will was dated after our Jacob Snider had died. Jacob Snider Sr's children birth locations are also inconclusive but some were firmly inplanted in what was Providence Twp., Bedford Co., Pa. before 1790. The oldest son of Jacob Snider Sr was Jacob Snyder Jr who was an early Deacon in the old German Baptist Church there in Snake Spring Valley. On his tombstone it states "Jacob, son of Jacob Snider, born in Berkley Co. Va. came to Hagerstown, Md. and married Catherine, daughter of Abraham Postetter, April 12 in 1783. Came to Croyles Valley now Snake Spring in 1785. And located on the farm containing the big spring and joining the cemetery where he built the brick house in 1811. He became the first deacon in the first organized Church of the Brethren called Yellow Creek in Providence Country, Cumberland Co. now comprising the counties of Bedford, Fulton, Blair, and parts of Huntingdon and Somerset and in company with Samuel Ulery the first elected minister of this church visited the membership on extended tours lasting more than three weeks at a time traveling a-foot staff in-hand. He was the first teacher of reading and writing in Snake Spring Valley." Daniel Snider, one of Jacob Snider Sr's younger sons and his wife Mary Hershberger came to Perry, Co., Ohio in1806 >From the 1883 History of Perry Co., Ohio : " .... The Jonathan's Creek branch of the German Baptist Church comprises Perry, Fairfield, Licking and Muskingum counties. ....................The denomination has a good, commodious house of worship, situated in the eastern part of Thorn township, on the common road leading from Somerset to Thornville. Many Dunkers, or German Baptists, were among the earliest pioneers of Thorn, and religious worship was held at private houses at a very early day, no doubt previous to 1810. Daniel Snider was a preacher and leader, and services were often held at his house. Snider also preached in Fairfield, Muskingum and other counties, and was widely known, and everywhere venerated by the brethren of the denomination to which he belonged. He died at the age of 93, universally esteemed. As a result of Jacob Snyder Jr, Daniel Snider and their other siblings close association with the Church of the Brethren, the feeling that there must be a connection to the Ship Allen still persists. There is also a Schneider / Snider / Snyder DNA program where representative of 5 of Jacob's known sons have a DNA sample listed. It is hoped that one day that a male descendant of a proven line to the Snyder males on the Allen can be found and tested. This is probably the only way to prove it one way or the other. Have I opened pandora's Box? Robert (Bob) Longbottom Ohio **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

The recent discussion of Schneiders on the Ship Allen has focused on Anna Margaretha, wife of John Mack, and her brother Jacob Schneider. Both were a part of the Brethren party led by John Mack's father, There were four other Schneiders on the Allen, two men--Christian and Mathias--and two women--Susanna and Magdalene. Unlike some observers, I am not prone to think of the three Schneider men on the Allen as brothers, or even close relatives, with the exception of Jacob and Christian. They were listed one after the other on two of the three ship lists along with other known Brethren men, and separated by only one man in the third list. Mathias Schneider was listed by himself among men not known to be Brethren. Correspondingly, Susanna Schneider was listed with the known Brethren women, indicating that she may have been related to Jacob and/or Christian. Magdalene Schneider was listed among the women not known to be Brethren. She was possibly related to Mathias Schneider. There are a number of undocumented theories about who Christian Schneider was, none of which is compelling in my opinion. In comparison, less is said about the Mathias Schneider on the Allen. I will be giving a paper on the Brethren who came over in 1729 on the Ship Allen at the annual meeting of the FOBG in Richmond, Virginia, in July of this year. One of my objectives is to differentiate the passengers on the Allen who were known Brethren from those who were not Brethren. Many believe that all of the passengers were Brethren because, unfortunately, Martin Grove Brumbaugh listed all the passengers as Brethren in Chapter 5 of his 1899 book "A History of the Brethren." Contrary to Brumbaugh, it is fairly easy to prove that many of the passengers were not Brethren. The more difficult part is to differentiate between a few of the passengers who represent question marks. I would appreciate hearing from those of you who have ideas about this endeavor. Dwayne Wrightsman

After much searching, I found a clue to the identity of my ancestor Christian Kentsinger's wife- N. N. Schnebele. GAMEO lists the Schnebele family as being in the Sembach area, which is where the Kinsinger family established themselves. My question is- does anyone have information on the Ultimer SCHNEBLER and/or Hendrick SNEEVELE that came to America on the Mortonhouse? I think it's possible that they were related, and may have settled in the same area (I'm still trying to determine where Abraham Kensinger/Kintzinger and family lived between 1729 & 1737.). Thanks, Ken _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan

In the November 3, 1774, letter from Jacob Mack of Antietam to his paternal uncle, Alexander Mack Jr., of Krefeld (near Chestnut Hill in the Germantown area), Jacob Mack sent his uncle the following greeting: "Also greet warmly for me your dear wife, the dear sister, and all of your children. Greet warmly also the dear cousin Lewis Engelhard and cousin Jacob Schneider, my mother's brother. We also send warm greetings to our old friend, Sister Bayer, and the dear brother George Schreiber and his dear wife." These people all lived in the Germantown area of Pennsylvania at the time. Lewis Engelhard and George Schreiber were well known. They were in charge of the Upper Germantown Burying Ground (aka Ax's Burying Ground) from 1758. Both men died the same year and both were buried in the Upper Germantown Burying Ground (See pages 170-171 from the book GERMANTOWN, MOUNT AIRY, AND CHESTNUT HILL, by S. F. Hotchkin, Philadelphia: Ziegler & Co., 1889.) David, as you well know, the name Schneider is and was pervasive. So was the given name Jacob. There were just too many Jacob Schneiders to keep them all straight. We can be sure, however, that Jacob Mack would have known where his maternal uncle was living in 1774. I think we can safely assume that our Jacob Schneider lived in the Brethren neighborhood of Germantown. Dwayne Wrightsman

David, The Brethren Encyclopedia (BE) article on the Schneider Family was written by Robert A. Longbottom and was published in BE in 1983. Mr. Longbottom (aka Shorttop) is an active member of this list and wrote one of the 2006 messages that you posted yesterday. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: [BRE] Schneider family in the Brethren Encyclopedia >I found the following information in a database placed on WorldConnect > (RootsWeb.com) by Mary Rohrer. Does anyone on the list have a copy of > the Encyclopedia so that they can verify this information? If so, are > sources given? I'm curious where this information comes from, especially > since the 1774 letter that Dwayne Wrightsman referenced indicated that > the Jacob Schneider who was a brother-in-law of Johannes Mack lived in > the Germantown area at that time. That is substantially at odds with the > encyclopedia entry below. > > David Myers > > ------------------------------ >>From the research of Bruce McCrea: > > "According to page 1154 of THE BRETHREN ENCYCLOPEDIA, 'Jacob and Elsa > Klein Schneider purchased property from Alexander Mack, Sr., Christian > King, and Jacob Weiss at Schreisheim, Germany , prior to Jacob's death in > 1726. Three of their six sons emigrated to America on the ALLEN with Mack > and other Brethren on Sept 15, 1729. These sons were Christian, Jacob, > and Mathias. Christian and his wife, Susanna, settled in East Earl Twp,. > Lancaster Co, PA where he died in 1793. Jacob and his wife, Magdalene, > settled near Weberthal , Lancaster Co., PA. Christian and Susanna were > probably the parents of Jacob Snider of Berkeley Co., VA (1732-90 m > Margaret Studebaker?), whose twelve children were brethren and whose > descendants were early Brethren leaders in Bedford Co., PA.' " > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found the following information in a database placed on WorldConnect (RootsWeb.com) by Mary Rohrer. Does anyone on the list have a copy of the Encyclopedia so that they can verify this information? If so, are sources given? I'm curious where this information comes from, especially since the 1774 letter that Dwayne Wrightsman referenced indicated that the Jacob Schneider who was a brother-in-law of Johannes Mack lived in the Germantown area at that time. That is substantially at odds with the encyclopedia entry below. David Myers ------------------------------ >From the research of Bruce McCrea: "According to page 1154 of THE BRETHREN ENCYCLOPEDIA, 'Jacob and Elsa Klein Schneider purchased property from Alexander Mack, Sr., Christian King, and Jacob Weiss at Schreisheim, Germany , prior to Jacob's death in 1726. Three of their six sons emigrated to America on the ALLEN with Mack and other Brethren on Sept 15, 1729. These sons were Christian, Jacob, and Mathias. Christian and his wife, Susanna, settled in East Earl Twp,. Lancaster Co, PA where he died in 1793. Jacob and his wife, Magdalene, settled near Weberthal , Lancaster Co., PA. Christian and Susanna were probably the parents of Jacob Snider of Berkeley Co., VA (1732-90 m Margaret Studebaker?), whose twelve children were brethren and whose descendants were early Brethren leaders in Bedford Co., PA.' "