In looking at the Derde proclamatie marriages, I thought that it might shed some light on the problem of why of the Brethren marriages are listed as Derde proclamatie if I included this passage from "Counting the Cost" that relates Alexander Mack's initial experience with marrying a couple in Surhuisterveen. "Counting the Cost" -- William G. Willoughby (1979): Pages 108-109. "In early 1721, Mack baptized a young Dutch convert, John Juriens, who was probably a Mennonite. The service was held at a large pond in the Kortwalde, several miles east of Surhuisterveen. John Juriens had announced his intention to marry Anna Catherine Kipping, the daughter of John and Joanna Kipping, who were two of the original eight baptized at Schwarzenau." "When John and Anna Catherine came to Mack to announce their plans, Mack had a new decision to make. It was customary in both the Dutch Reformed and the Mennonite churches to have engaged couples proclaim their 'intentions' three times publicly before the wedding. Mack could have used either of these churches as a vehicle to record the bans. He decided not to do this. Not wishing to endanger or compromise the autonomy of the New Baptist community, he decided instead to go with the engaged couple on April 28, 1721, to a local government official where the first marriage proclamation was duly recorded in the secular records. A week later he appeared with them for the second proclamation. On May 19, they appeared for the third time, as was required by custom, and on this occasion Mack married them in the presence of the government official and his secretary, who served as witnesses. This was a decided break with Dutch tradition."
In going through the marriages at the Dutch website, it seemed to me that the marriages that we know are Brethren through Willoughby's book (see separate post) were all listed as Derde proclamatie -- Third proclamation -- and that almost all of the rest were listed as Bevestiging huwelijk -- Confirmation of marriage (with one exception). I don't know for sure but I would bet that, despite Holland's liberal attitude towards religious practice, the country still had a state religion at that time, probably Dutch Reformed. The Dutch website has the following. "In 1811 the 'Burgerlijke Stand', the Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages was introduced in the Netherlands. People searching for personal information dating prior to 1812 will have to rely on other sources, such as church registers." I would guess that Derde proclamatie is the listing given to a nonconformist marriage that was recorded in the Dutch Reformed Church's books. I wanted to look up other nonconformist marriages -- like Mennonites -- but I didn't have any names to work with at the time. In going through "Counting the Cost" today, I noticed that Wopke Rommerts is listed as a Mennonite lay preacher on page 106. I vaguely remember seeing that name in the Dutch database so I will have to look for him to confirm my suspicions. I used the following search terms for what I was looking for. Derde proclamatie, Surhuisterveen This should have given me all of the Derde proclamatie marriages that had Surhuisterveen mentioned somewhere in the record. There were 91 such marriages, with nine occurring in the 1720-1729 time period. The one apparent exception (mentioned above) for the Brethren marriages is the marriage of Johan Juriens and Anna Catharina Kipping. I don't know what happened with that one. It may have been placed in the wrong category when the Dutch website was indexed. The nine (plus one) follow, in chronological order. Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1721 Vermelding: Bevestiging huwelijk op 19 mei 1721 Man : Johan Juriens afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Vrouw : Anna Catharina Kipping afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Gestandaardiseerde namen: JOHANNES JURJENS en ANTJE Bron: Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 Inventarisnr.: 1 Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar [Johan Juriens coming from Surhuisterveen married Anna Catharina Kipping coming from Surhuisterveen, 19 May 1721.] -------------------------- Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1723 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 22 februari 1723 Man : Wilhelmus Knepper afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Vrouw : Friene Bloem afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Gestandaardiseerde namen: WILLEM en VERENA Bron: Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 Inventarisnr.: 1 Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar [Wilhelmus Knepper coming from Surhuisterveen married Friene Bloem coming from Surhuisterveen, 22 Feb 1723.] ----------------------------- Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1724 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 28 februari 1724 Man : Jan Hendrix Kalckleser afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Vrouw : Anna Lys Layen afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Gestandaardiseerde namen: JAN HENDRIKS en ANTJE Bron: Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 Inventarisnr.: 1 Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar [Jan Hendrix Kalckleser coming from Surhuisterveen married Anna Lys Layen coming from Surhuisterveen, 28 Feb 1724.] ------------------------------ Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1724 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 30 oktober 1724 Man : Jacob Bosser afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Vrouw : Susanna Keymen afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Gestandaardiseerde namen: JAKOB en SUSANNA Bron: Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 Inventarisnr.: 1 Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar [Jacob Bosser coming from Surhuisterveen married Susanna Keymen coming from Surhuisterveen, 30 Oct 1724.] ---------------------------- Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1725 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 26 februari 1725 Man : Joannes Mack afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Vrouw : Joanna Margarita Snederen afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Gestandaardiseerde namen: JOHANNES en JOHANNA Bron: Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 Inventarisnr.: 1 Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar [Joannes Mack coming from Surhuisterveen married Joanna Margarita Snederen coming from Surhuisterveen, 26 Feb 1725.] -------------------------- Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1725 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 12 maart 1725 Man : Johannes Lodewijck Beinum afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Vrouw : Anne Senebeecken afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Gestandaardiseerde namen: JOHANNES en ANTJE Bron: Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 Inventarisnr.: 1 Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar [Johannes Lodewijck Beinum coming from Surhuisterveen married Anne Senebeecken coming from Surhuisterveen, 12 Mar 1725.] -------------------------- Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1725 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 12 november 1725 Man : Christejaen Sneeder afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Vrouw : Susanna Mackingh afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Gestandaardiseerde namen: CHRISTIAAN en SUSANNA Bron: Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 Inventarisnr.: 1 Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar [Christejaen Sneeder coming from Surhuisterveen married Susanna Mackingh coming from Surhuisterveen, 12 Nov 1725.] ------------------------- Haskerland, huwelijken 1727 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 12 januari 1727 in Joure Man : Auke Obbes afkomstig van Joure Vrouw : Antje Bouwes afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Opmerking : getrouwd te Joure Gestandaardiseerde namen: AUKE OBBES en ANTJE BOUWES Bron: Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) Trouwregister Hervormde gemeente Joure Westermeer Snikzwaag 1637-1744 Inventarisnr.: 360 Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar [Auke Obbes coming from Joure married Antje Bouwes coming from Surhuisterveen, 12 Jan 1727.] --------------------------------- Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1728 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 3 mei 1728 Man : Joannes Gondy afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Vrouw : Aeltie Rickes afkomstig van Sapmeer Gestandaardiseerde namen: JOHANNES en AALTJE RIJKS Bron: Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 Inventarisnr.: 1 Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar [Joannes Gondy coming from Surhuisterveen married Aeltie Rickes coming from Sapmeer, 3 May 1728.] ---------------------------- Achtkarspelen, huwelijken 1728 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie op 6 december 1728 Man : Christoffel Kalckleser afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Vrouw : Maria Mackingh afkomstig van Surhuisterveen Gestandaardiseerde namen: CHRISTOFFEL en MARIA Bron: Collectie Doop-, Trouw-, Begraaf- en Lidmatenboeken(DTBL) Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen 1606-1725 Inventarisnr.: 1 Op microfiche beschikbaar op de studiezaal van Tresoar [Christoffel Kalckleser coming from Surhuisterveen married Maria Mackingh coming from Surhuisterveen, 6 Dec 1728.]
Hi John, I don't know if this is the same family or not, but I would not be surprised. The early Miller genealogy work is not my own, but a compendium of information I believe to be correct from reputable sources. This Susanna Berchtol is shown to be the daughter of Hans Berchtol who died in 1711 in Krottelbach, Germany and his wife Anna Christina. That is literally all the information I have about this family. I would welcome any other information others might have. Roberta -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of john shafer Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:20 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Surhuisterveen and other Dutch locations Roberta, My question back to you is whether you think your Berchtol family is the same as the Bechtel/Bachtel families. Many of the Bechtel/Bachtel families were Mennonite, some living in Berks County, Pennsylvania. Others later became Brethren, one daughter marrying Jacob Danner, a noted Brethren leader. Some went to Washington County, Maryland, and Somerset County, Pennsylvania, with many of their descendents becoming Brethren. Dwayne's response to you about any Brethren left in Europe is accurate. However, I think memories survive in families for multiple generations, and someone who may have been exposed to Anabaptist/Pietist influences in Europe might be attracted to a community of like minded (or even related) people in America. John Shafer Oakton, VA > From: restes@comcast.net > To: brethren@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:35:37 -0500 > Subject: [BRE] Surhuisterveen and other Dutch locations > > I'm sorry to be so ignorant as to have to ask this question, but here > goes anyway. I know the Brethren were in Holland from the perioid of > about 1720 to 1728. Did they stay together in one group and is this > the location where they all were? Did all of the Brethren come to the > US or did a remnant church (some might say a mother church) stay there > in Holland? If they did all come, did they come at once or in waves? > Did all of the Brethren who came to the States firt go to Holland or > was there still a colony in either Schwarzenau? > > What I'm really trying to understand here is twofold. Where was my > Michael Miller with his wife Susanna Berchtol during this time. I > know he was born in Steinwenden Germany in 1692 and his wife in > Ohmback Germany, and they died in Maryland, he in 1771. They were > married in Crottelbach Germany in 1714. I'm trying to understand his > migration pattern, where he was and what he was doing during different periods of his life. > > The second thing I'm trying to determine is whether or not my Ferverda > family in Holland was Brethren before they arrived in the states, and > if so, could they have been part of this earlier group who stayed. > Bauke Hendrick Ferverda (also Ferveda, Ferwerda) was born in probably > Leeuwarden in the Netherlands in 1830, received his discharge from the > military in 1863 and immigrated directly from the Netherlands in 1863 to Elkhart County, Indiana. > He bought land among the Brethren and joined the Brethren church > there. I know the military service might indicate that he was not > Brethren, but perhaps it was mandatory. I don't know. I have always > found it odd that he would come to the middle of Northern Indiana and > settle among the Brethren, his children marrying Brethren church > members if he wasn't Brethren before coming. > > Is there any chruch history of a chruch in Leeuwarden or in Gronigan > where his father was born in 1768? > > Thank you, > > Roberta Estes > > > ------------------------ Search the > Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further > information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Thank you Dwayne. I'll see if I can order or find that book. Roberta -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 4:45 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Surhuisterveen and other Dutch locations Roberta, The Brethren who were already Brethren when they emigrated mostly came over in 1719 with Peter Becker and in 1729 with Alexander Mack. There were probably fewer of them than most of us think. Indeed, most of our Brethren ancestors probably did not become Brethren until after they immigrated. Many, while in the old country, were Swiss Mennonites, and Reformed and Lutheran. It is possible that your ancestors were typical, i.e., not Brethren back in Europe. The Brethren of Europe who stayed in Europe tended to die out according to Donald Durnbaugh who wrote extensively on this subject. Many of your questions can be answered in Durnbaugh's book, European Origins of the Brethren, Brethren Press, 1958. Although the earliest Brethren were European, the Brethren did not congregate in large numbers until after reaching our shores. I know, in my own case, that my ancestors emigrated from Europe as Swiss Mennonites. They didn't become Brethren until settling in Pennsylvania. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roberta J. Estes" <restes@comcast.net> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 3:35 PM Subject: [BRE] Surhuisterveen and other Dutch locations > I'm sorry to be so ignorant as to have to ask this question, but here goes > anyway. I know the Brethren were in Holland from the perioid of about > 1720 > to 1728. Did they stay together in one group and is this the location > where > they all were? Did all of the Brethren come to the US or did a remnant > church (some might say a mother church) stay there in Holland? If they > did > all come, did they come at once or in waves? Did all of the Brethren who > came to the States firt go to Holland or was there still a colony in > either > Schwarzenau? > > What I'm really trying to understand here is twofold. Where was my > Michael > Miller with his wife Susanna Berchtol during this time. I know he was > born > in Steinwenden Germany in 1692 and his wife in Ohmback Germany, and they > died in Maryland, he in 1771. They were married in Crottelbach Germany in > 1714. I'm trying to understand his migration pattern, where he was and > what > he was doing during different periods of his life. > > The second thing I'm trying to determine is whether or not my Ferverda > family in Holland was Brethren before they arrived in the states, and if > so, > could they have been part of this earlier group who stayed. Bauke > Hendrick > Ferverda (also Ferveda, Ferwerda) was born in probably Leeuwarden in the > Netherlands in 1830, received his discharge from the military in 1863 and > immigrated directly from the Netherlands in 1863 to Elkhart County, > Indiana. > He bought land among the Brethren and joined the Brethren church there. I > know the military service might indicate that he was not Brethren, but > perhaps it was mandatory. I don't know. I have always found it odd that > he > would come to the middle of Northern Indiana and settle among the > Brethren, > his children marrying Brethren church members if he wasn't Brethren before > coming. > > Is there any chruch history of a chruch in Leeuwarden or in Gronigan where > his father was born in 1768? > > Thank you, > > Roberta Estes ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I used the "Translate this page" feature of Google to translate some of the words in the Dutch marriage records. This should help people decipher the records, at least a little. David Myers Vermelding -- Listing. Derde proclamatie -- Third proclamation. Bevestiging huwelijk -- Confirmation of marriage. Man -- Man. Vrouw -- Female. afkomstig -- coming. Gestandaardiseerde namen -- Standardized names.
The following is a list of the marriages that occurred in Surhuisterveen that are mentioned in "Counting the Cost." I went all the way through Chapter XI, "Sojourn in Holland, 1720-1729," and the Chronology. Willoughby says on page 114 that there were "seven recorded marriages performed by Mack in Surhuisterveen." Whether this is all of them or only most is, I hope, something that may be resolved eventually. Individuals are German unless otherwise noted. David Myers Pages 108-109. John Juriens (Dutch) married Anna Catherine Kipping, 19 May 1721. Page 110. William Knepper married Veronica Bloom (Dutch), 22 Feb 1723. Page 111. John Henry Kalckloser married Anna Flys Layen (Dutch), 1724. Jacob Bossert married Susan Keymen, 1724. Page 114. John Mack married Joanna (Anna) Margaret Suderein [sic], 26 Feb 1725. Johannes Lodewyck Beinum (Dutch) married Ann Senebecken, Mar 1725. Christian Schneider married Susan Macking, Apr 1725. Pages 152 -- Chronology. John Juriens married Anna Kipping, 28 Apr 1721 [sic]. John Mack married Joanna Margaret Suderein [sic], 1725.
Any theory as to why a Brethren would marry a non-Brethren? Tobias Miller was son of Jacob Miller. Seems like it would have created a bit of a squabble that he married a Henderson girl whose father had slaves? Proximity - But another - the Brethren of the earlier times (including Elder Jacob Miller) were Pietists. They accepted faith in Jesus as the primary/often only consideration. It was called "open meetings" - it was really only AFTER the American Revolution, under the influence of the Anabaptist Mennonites, that the Annual Meeting and the Elder's Body went to "closed meetings" ("you had to be a Brethren"). The Pietists seem to be very evangelical, reaching out to all their neighbors for religious services, and the early Brethren were this, and the Brethren on the frontier were this. Worship services were held in their home, and they invited everyone around to come - even when they were NOT preachers - and the church grew -all these non-german families are suddenly "Brethren".. The Blackwater Chapel was just below the home of Elder Jacob Miller, in Franklin County VA - and Samuel Henderson lived very close. All the community seemed to have been part of that congregation (at least, several of the local families that married into the Miller family did) - and I really suspect that Elder Jacob preached there. It is not now a Brethren Church (at least, I don't remember seeing anything like that when I drove past there -some years ago), I don't think it was technically a "Brethren" Church back then. One strong Pietist tradition was Eternal Restoration (Universalism) - and Tobias Miller (son of Elder Jacob) moved to LaPorte IN in 1833, as a Universalist Preacher. The early LaPorte County History says that he was the first Universalist Preacher in the county. Pietism is what Elder William R Smith was censured for at Raccoon Creek (church taken from his care in c1830 -by elders from Virginia [northern valley of virginia] - which was an area of the Annual Meeting -Anabaptist tradition) - he still held to the Pietist traditions, which he received in the teaching of Elder Jacob Miller, he held "open meetings". Janie, I cover a lot about this in my papers at: <www.cob-net.org/docs/brethrenlife.htm> - Frontier Brethren, Brethren Pietism Merle C Rummel
Thanks, Merle. That's so interesting. I also liked Gale's theory of amore! William R. Smith lived next door to John Fosher in Putnam County, IN, and Fosher was one of the first Universalists there. Last fall we drove through Fincastle, IN, and saw the Universalist church which was built there, I believe in the 1870s. Did you ever hear back from Emmert--you were trying to find out more information on Brethren Bonen and Wine--the two elders who heard the dispute and had Wm R. removed as pastor? Thanks. Janie --- Merle C Rummel <cliff@rtkonline.com> wrote: > Any theory as to why a Brethren would marry a > non-Brethren? Tobias > Miller was son of Jacob Miller. > Seems like it would have created a bit of a squabble > that he married a > Henderson girl whose father had slaves? > > > > Proximity - > > But another - the Brethren of the earlier times > (including Elder Jacob > Miller) were Pietists. They accepted faith in Jesus > as the > primary/often only consideration. It was called > "open meetings" - it > was really only AFTER the American Revolution, under > the influence of > the Anabaptist Mennonites, that the Annual Meeting > and the Elder's Body > went to "closed meetings" ("you had to be a > Brethren"). The Pietists > seem to be very evangelical, reaching out to all > their neighbors for > religious services, and the early Brethren were > this, and the Brethren > on the frontier were this. Worship services were > held in their home, > and they invited everyone around to come - even when > they were NOT > preachers - and the church grew -all these > non-german families are > suddenly "Brethren".. > > The Blackwater Chapel was just below the home of > Elder Jacob Miller, in > Franklin County VA - and Samuel Henderson lived very > close. All the > community seemed to have been part of that > congregation (at least, > several of the local families that married into the > Miller family did) - > and I really suspect that Elder Jacob preached > there. It is not now a > Brethren Church (at least, I don't remember seeing > anything like that > when I drove past there -some years ago), I don't > think it was > technically a "Brethren" Church back then. > > One strong Pietist tradition was Eternal Restoration > (Universalism) - > and Tobias Miller (son of Elder Jacob) moved to > LaPorte IN in 1833, as a > Universalist Preacher. The early LaPorte County > History says that he > was the first Universalist Preacher in the county. > > Pietism is what Elder William R Smith was censured > for at Raccoon Creek > (church taken from his care in c1830 -by elders from > Virginia [northern > valley of virginia] - which was an area of the > Annual Meeting > -Anabaptist tradition) - he still held to the > Pietist traditions, which > he received in the teaching of Elder Jacob Miller, > he held "open meetings". > > Janie, I cover a lot about this in my papers at: > <www.cob-net.org/docs/brethrenlife.htm> - Frontier > Brethren, Brethren > Pietism > > Merle C Rummel > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring > Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists > (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams > mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Hello, Janie, I noticed your correspondence to Brethren Rootsweb regarding the Dutch Brethren and marriage records, and that your line of research are Smiths. This may be a long shot, but....I am also researching Smiths, and wonder if there could possibly be a connection. Hardly possible, because of such a common name, but I'll give it a try. I'm descended from a James Smith and wife, Mary. It is recorded in "Immigration of the Irish Quakers into Pennsylvania, 1682-1750, by Albert Cook Meyers (1969) that his son, James Smith Sr., married to Alice Bowen, came to Lancaster/York Co., PA from Ballyhagen, Armagh County, Ireland in 1733. They were apparently part of a group of Quakers, including Blackburns and Bowens, who left Ireland to settle in PA near present day York, PA (Menallen township.) These families later moved further west to Springhope and Fishertown, Bedford County. My great-grandfather, Mahlon Smith, son of James and Alice (Bowen) Smith married a Catholic, Christiann Veronica Luken, of New Baltimore, PA. They were surely excommunicated from (or left) their respective churches-- Quaker and Catholic--and at some point became Brethren. They moved by covered wagon from Bedford County to Black Hawk Co., Iowa in 1865. I'm now living in Bedford County, PA, and would dearly love to know more about my Smith family line. Doris
Roberta, The Brethren who were already Brethren when they emigrated mostly came over in 1719 with Peter Becker and in 1729 with Alexander Mack. There were probably fewer of them than most of us think. Indeed, most of our Brethren ancestors probably did not become Brethren until after they immigrated. Many, while in the old country, were Swiss Mennonites, and Reformed and Lutheran. It is possible that your ancestors were typical, i.e., not Brethren back in Europe. The Brethren of Europe who stayed in Europe tended to die out according to Donald Durnbaugh who wrote extensively on this subject. Many of your questions can be answered in Durnbaugh's book, European Origins of the Brethren, Brethren Press, 1958. Although the earliest Brethren were European, the Brethren did not congregate in large numbers until after reaching our shores. I know, in my own case, that my ancestors emigrated from Europe as Swiss Mennonites. They didn't become Brethren until settling in Pennsylvania. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roberta J. Estes" <restes@comcast.net> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 3:35 PM Subject: [BRE] Surhuisterveen and other Dutch locations > I'm sorry to be so ignorant as to have to ask this question, but here goes > anyway. I know the Brethren were in Holland from the perioid of about > 1720 > to 1728. Did they stay together in one group and is this the location > where > they all were? Did all of the Brethren come to the US or did a remnant > church (some might say a mother church) stay there in Holland? If they > did > all come, did they come at once or in waves? Did all of the Brethren who > came to the States firt go to Holland or was there still a colony in > either > Schwarzenau? > > What I'm really trying to understand here is twofold. Where was my > Michael > Miller with his wife Susanna Berchtol during this time. I know he was > born > in Steinwenden Germany in 1692 and his wife in Ohmback Germany, and they > died in Maryland, he in 1771. They were married in Crottelbach Germany in > 1714. I'm trying to understand his migration pattern, where he was and > what > he was doing during different periods of his life. > > The second thing I'm trying to determine is whether or not my Ferverda > family in Holland was Brethren before they arrived in the states, and if > so, > could they have been part of this earlier group who stayed. Bauke > Hendrick > Ferverda (also Ferveda, Ferwerda) was born in probably Leeuwarden in the > Netherlands in 1830, received his discharge from the military in 1863 and > immigrated directly from the Netherlands in 1863 to Elkhart County, > Indiana. > He bought land among the Brethren and joined the Brethren church there. I > know the military service might indicate that he was not Brethren, but > perhaps it was mandatory. I don't know. I have always found it odd that > he > would come to the middle of Northern Indiana and settle among the > Brethren, > his children marrying Brethren church members if he wasn't Brethren before > coming. > > Is there any chruch history of a chruch in Leeuwarden or in Gronigan where > his father was born in 1768? > > Thank you, > > Roberta Estes
I'm sorry to be so ignorant as to have to ask this question, but here goes anyway. I know the Brethren were in Holland from the perioid of about 1720 to 1728. Did they stay together in one group and is this the location where they all were? Did all of the Brethren come to the US or did a remnant church (some might say a mother church) stay there in Holland? If they did all come, did they come at once or in waves? Did all of the Brethren who came to the States firt go to Holland or was there still a colony in either Schwarzenau? What I'm really trying to understand here is twofold. Where was my Michael Miller with his wife Susanna Berchtol during this time. I know he was born in Steinwenden Germany in 1692 and his wife in Ohmback Germany, and they died in Maryland, he in 1771. They were married in Crottelbach Germany in 1714. I'm trying to understand his migration pattern, where he was and what he was doing during different periods of his life. The second thing I'm trying to determine is whether or not my Ferverda family in Holland was Brethren before they arrived in the states, and if so, could they have been part of this earlier group who stayed. Bauke Hendrick Ferverda (also Ferveda, Ferwerda) was born in probably Leeuwarden in the Netherlands in 1830, received his discharge from the military in 1863 and immigrated directly from the Netherlands in 1863 to Elkhart County, Indiana. He bought land among the Brethren and joined the Brethren church there. I know the military service might indicate that he was not Brethren, but perhaps it was mandatory. I don't know. I have always found it odd that he would come to the middle of Northern Indiana and settle among the Brethren, his children marrying Brethren church members if he wasn't Brethren before coming. Is there any chruch history of a chruch in Leeuwarden or in Gronigan where his father was born in 1768? Thank you, Roberta Estes
oops--forgot #7 of the Surhuisterveen marriages: It says that Susanna Macking is possibly a daughter of Alexander Mack. This from source Sebo H. Abels. She married Christejaen Sneeder/Schneider 12 Nov 1725. Sorry about that! Janie ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Dear List: Ive noticed the Friesan Dutch information that Dwayne has posted on the list. When I need a break from my Smith line, I enjoy translating as one of my lines is Dutch from Friesland. Im an amateur, but its fun to try. So hopefully my translation of the information does not add to or create any confusion. Its incompletebut hopefully will help a bit. Use only as a possible translation. Please verify with someone who is good at this. In the Feanster period there were 9 marriages within the quiet [could be restrained, etc.] group of Alexander Mack. Next sentence says something to the effect that the information is found in the Marriage Register of Achtkarspelen. We have not found, however, any marriages between Feanster and Brethren. The following are the names of those Brethren. # 1-9: words in common: Trouwregister: Marriage Register Vermelding: Bevestiging huwelijk: Record: Marriage Confirmation Bron: source N.N.: abbreviation for no name [I think] Derde proclamatie: Third proclamation #3. The notes on # 3 appear to be an extract from a publication in 2005 by Sebo H. Ables and not from the official register that contains the marriage information. As best as I can decipher: Jan Hindrick Kalckleser appears to have a baptism record at the German church in Groningen in 1721. I think it says that he lived in Surhuisterveen between 1720 and 1729 with the Alexander Mack Brethren group. He is a native of Schwarzenau in Southern Germany. He departed in 1729 on the ship Allen to America and reported himself there 11 Sept 1729. He married 28 Feb 1724 at Achtkarspelen with Anna Lijs Laijen. Seems to say that Anna Catherine Laijen is also native of Schwarzenau and between 1720 and 1729 resided at Surhuisterveen after that to America. Children of Jan Hindrick Kalckleser and N. N.: 1. Christoffel Kalckleser married in 1729 with Maria Mackingh 2. Marie Kalckloser 3. Agnes Kalckloser 4. Immanuel Kalckloser 5. Jacob Kalckloser all with a question mark. Jan Hendrix Kalckloser and his wife Anna Laijen come from the passenger list of the ship Allen. #4. Jacob Bosser/Jacob Bosset comes from the passenger list of the ship Allen. #5. Source: Sebo H. Abels: Joannes Mack is possibly a son of Alexander Mack of Schwarzenau, Groningen in Surhuisterveen and N.N.. Joannes is also a part of the Brethren, a native of Schwarzenau. He lived in Surhuisterveen between 1720 and 1729. Joannes Mack comes from the passenger list of the ship Allen. Hope this helps. Janie --- Dwayne Wrightsman <dwayne55@comcast.net> wrote: > > Below are nine Surhuisterveen Brethren marriages. > These are not translated. > The source is listed first, then the date, then the > name of the husband, > then the name of the wife, then comments. Seven of > these couples were on > the Ship Allen in 1729. Enjoy! > > In de Feanster periode werden negen huwelijken > binnen de groep van Alexander > Mack gesloten. Een en ander is te vinden in het > Trouwregister van het > Gerecht van Achtkarspelen. We hebben echter geen > huwelijken tussen Feanster > en Brethren kunnen vinden. > We laten in het onderstaande de namen van die > Brethren volgen: > > 1. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen, 1721 > DTB nr: 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Bevestiging huwelijk van 19 mei 1721 > Man: Johan Juriens, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Anna Catharina Kipping, Surhuisterveen > > 2. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 22 februari 1723, > Achtkarspelen > Man: Wilhelmus Kuepper, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Friene Bloem, Surhuisterveen > > 3. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 28 februari 1724, > Achtkarspelen > Man: Jan Hendrix Kalckleser, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Anna Lijs Laijen, Surhuisterveen > [bron: Sebo H.Abels (Eexterzandvoort - 2005): > Jan Hindrick Kalckleser > [=John Henry Kalckloser] is in 1721 vermaner der > Hoogduitse doopsgezinde > gemeente te Groningen, en is samen met Alexander > Mack eveneens vermaner bij > de > Brethern die zich tussen 1720 en 1729 te > Surhuisterveen bevinden, afkomstig > uit > Schwarzenau in Zuid-Duitsland. Ze vertrekken in 1729 > met het schip Allen > naar Amerika > en melden zich daar 11 september 1729. Hij trouwt > met N.N. Hij hertrouwt 28 > februari > 1724 te Achtkarspelen (3e pr.) met Anna Lijs Laijen > [=[?] Anna Catherine > Lesle], > ook afkomstig uit Schwarzenau, en tussen 1720 en > 1729 wonende te > Surhuisterveen, daarna naar Amerika; Kinderen van > Jan Hindrick Kalckleser en > N.N.: -1- [?] > Christoffel Kalckleser [=Christopher Kalckloser] > trouwt in 1729 met Maria > Mackingh, -2- [?] Marie Kalckloser, -3- [?] Agnes > Kalckloser, -4- [?] > Immanuel > Kalckloser, -5- [?] Jacob Kalckloser] > [Jan Hendrix Kalckleser / John Henry Kalckloser > en zijn vrouw Anna Lijs > Laijen /Anna Catherine Lesle komen voor op de > passagierslijst van het schip > de > 'Allen'] > > 4. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 30 oktober 1724, > Achtkarspelen > Man: Jacob Bosser, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Susanna Keijmen, Surhuisterveen > [Jacob Bosser /Jacob Bossert komt voor op de > passagierslijst van het > schip de 'Allen'] > > 5. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 26 februari 1725, > Achtkarspelen > Man: Joannes Mack, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Joanna Margarita Suederen, Surhuisterveen > [bron: Sebo H.Abels (Eexterzandvoort - 2005): > Joannes Mack is mogelijk > een zoon van Alexander Macken, te Schwarzenau, > Groningen en Surhuisterveen, > en > N.N. Joannes maakt deel uit van de Brethern, > afkomstig uit Schwarzenau. Hij > verblijft > tussen 1720 en 1729 te Surhuisterveen.] > [Joannes Mack komt voor op de passagierslijst > van het schip de 'Allen'] > > 6. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 12 maart 1725, > Achtkarspelen > Man: Johannes Lodewijck Beinum, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Anne Senebeecken, Surhuisterveen > > 7. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 12 november 1725, > Achtkarspelen > Man: Christejaen Sneeder, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Susanna Mackingh, Surhuisterveen > [bron: Sebo H.Abels (Eexterzandvoort - 2005): > Susanna Macking, mogelijk > een dochter van Alexander Macken, vermaner van > Schwarzenau, en N.N.] > [Christejaen Sneeder / Cristian Schneider komt > voor op de > passagierslijst van het schip de 'Allen'] > > 8. Trouwregister Hervormde gemeente Surhuisterveen > DTB nr. 27, 1688 - 1772 > Vermelding: Bevestiging huwelijk van 10 maart 1726, > Surhuisterveen > Man: Hans Hoffer > Vrouw: Catharina Hasse > > 9. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 6 december 1728, > Achtkarspelen > Man: Christoffel Kalckleser, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Maria Mackingh, Surhuisterveen > [Christoffel Kalckleser / Christopher Kalckloser > komt voor op de > passagierslijst van het schip de 'Allen'] > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring > Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists > (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams > mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. 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If one bothers to study the Surhuisterveen Brethren Marriage Records, one will notice at least two mis-spellings of the names. Sneder is misspelled as Sueder, and Knepper is misspelled as Kuepper. The original records were handwritten three hundred years ago in script. What we see on the Internet are hand-me-down translations, complete with misspellings. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwayne Wrightsman" <dwayne55@comcast.net> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:32 AM Subject: [BRE] Surhuisterveen Records Online > David Myers asked about the sites(s) that have the Surhuisterveen Brethren > Marriage Records. I think that there are a number of such sites. I had > luck using the set of URLs below: > > > http://www.doopsgezindsurhuisterveen.nl/huwelijken_van_brethren_in_surhuisterveen.htm > > http://www.doopsgezindsurhuisterveen.nl/naamlijst_leden_1570___1730.htm > > http://www.doopsgezindsurhuisterveen.nl/index.htm > > http://www.doopsgesindsurhuisterveen.nl.htm > > > David, your site(s) and mine are based on the same court records. > Wouldn't > it be nice to be in Frisia and access the records at the actual source. > Would also be nice to know the language used in the particular part of > Frisia where the marriages were recorded. I am told that there are many > variations of Dutch used in the Netherlands. Fortunately, the names and > dates in these records are relatively easy to figure out. Let me know if > the above URLs don't work for you. > > Also, seven of the nine marriages are in Willoughby: one on page 108, one > on > page 110, two on page 111, and three on page 114. He apparently failed to > record the two post-1725 marriages during his European research pilgrimage > with his wife Lena, mentioned on page 10 of the Preface of his book. > > Dwayne Wrightsman > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
David Myers asked about the sites(s) that have the Surhuisterveen Brethren Marriage Records. I think that there are a number of such sites. I had luck using the set of URLs below: http://www.doopsgezindsurhuisterveen.nl/huwelijken_van_brethren_in_surhuisterveen.htm http://www.doopsgezindsurhuisterveen.nl/naamlijst_leden_1570___1730.htm http://www.doopsgezindsurhuisterveen.nl/index.htm http://www.doopsgesindsurhuisterveen.nl.htm David, your site(s) and mine are based on the same court records. Wouldn't it be nice to be in Frisia and access the records at the actual source. Would also be nice to know the language used in the particular part of Frisia where the marriages were recorded. I am told that there are many variations of Dutch used in the Netherlands. Fortunately, the names and dates in these records are relatively easy to figure out. Let me know if the above URLs don't work for you. Also, seven of the nine marriages are in Willoughby: one on page 108, one on page 110, two on page 111, and three on page 114. He apparently failed to record the two post-1725 marriages during his European research pilgrimage with his wife Lena, mentioned on page 10 of the Preface of his book. Dwayne Wrightsman
Beth Ann This not the same church. But thank for replying. Dennis In a message dated 2/16/2008 2:11:13 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, badrenn@embarqmail.com writes: Does Benevola mean anything to you? The church was in Boonsboro. This is where I found this information: http://www.benevola.org/Pages/History_Doc.htm Do you think it's the same church? Beth Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: <ORWAHIST@aol.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 12:41 PM Subject: [BRE] Meeting house in Washingotn Co., MD | List, | Can someone tell which congregation this meeting house belong to. | | . | The Gospel Messenger Feb. 12, 1889 page 110 | Dedication of Mt. Zion Church, Washington County, Md | Very near the spot where the old Mt. Zion church, or more commonly know as | Fahrney’s meeting-house, stood for about one hundred twenty-five years, with | it marks of age and dilapidation, now stands a new and substantial brick | house, 35x45 feet in size, with a seating capacity for three hundred fifty people. | | The necessity of building a new house at this place, as an assurance for the | continued protection and care of the grave-yard, immediately connected, has | long been felt. Etc | Dennis | Olympia, Wash | | | | **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy | Awards. Go to AOL Music. | (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565) | | ------------------------ | Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN | ------------------------ | Support Our Sponsoring Agency | The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) | For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com | ------------------------ | | ------------------------------- | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Dwayne, I would like to see the website that you are accessing, kind of compare and contrast with the Dutch website that I found. Could you post the title of the site and the URL? I would appreciate that. David Myers On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:06:46 -0500 "Dwayne Wrightsman" <dwayne55@comcast.net> writes: > David, > > My guess is that William G. Willoughby did access the original > records, > hand-written in Dutch, but that he had problems translating them > into > English for writing his book. I do not have a copy of his book yet, > so I > wonder how many of these Mack women he ascribed as daughters of > Alexander > Mack Sr. > > I did the same thing that you did, i.e., track down the Brethren > marriages > on the Internet. Because the web site I used had transcriptions > rather than > images, I was not able to discern whether the notes about the Macks > were > original or added to the original entries by the transcriber, in > which case > we cannot be sure who these Mack women belonged to. My date for the > Susanna > Mack(ingh) entry agrees with yours, so our sources agree. However, > my > source does have an (added?) note that she was a daughter of > Alexander Mack. > My source has no note about Maria Mack(ing), only that she married > Christoffel Kalckleser. > > There were at least four other Brethren marriages in these data > sources of > those who came over on the Ship Allen in 1729. I'll wait to see > what you > come up with and then we can compare notes. > > Hope others might become interested and jump into the fray. I think > we can > agree that the Schneider problem has finally been resolved. Voila! > > Dwayne Wrightsman
Does Benevola mean anything to you? The church was in Boonsboro. This is where I found this information: http://www.benevola.org/Pages/History_Doc.htm Do you think it's the same church? Beth Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: <ORWAHIST@aol.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 12:41 PM Subject: [BRE] Meeting house in Washingotn Co., MD | List, | Can someone tell which congregation this meeting house belong to. | | . | The Gospel Messenger Feb. 12, 1889 page 110 | Dedication of Mt. Zion Church, Washington County, Md | Very near the spot where the old Mt. Zion church, or more commonly know as | Fahrney’s meeting-house, stood for about one hundred twenty-five years, with | it marks of age and dilapidation, now stands a new and substantial brick | house, 35x45 feet in size, with a seating capacity for three hundred fifty people. | | The necessity of building a new house at this place, as an assurance for the | continued protection and care of the grave-yard, immediately connected, has | long been felt. Etc | Dennis | Olympia, Wash | | | | **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy | Awards. Go to AOL Music. | (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565) | | ------------------------ | Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN | ------------------------ | Support Our Sponsoring Agency | The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) | For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com | ------------------------ | | ------------------------------- | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Below are nine Surhuisterveen Brethren marriages. These are not translated. The source is listed first, then the date, then the name of the husband, then the name of the wife, then comments. Seven of these couples were on the Ship Allen in 1729. Enjoy! In de Feanster periode werden negen huwelijken binnen de groep van Alexander Mack gesloten. Een en ander is te vinden in het Trouwregister van het Gerecht van Achtkarspelen. We hebben echter geen huwelijken tussen Feanster en Brethren kunnen vinden. We laten in het onderstaande de namen van die Brethren volgen: 1. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen, 1721 DTB nr: 1, 1606 - 1725 Vermelding: Bevestiging huwelijk van 19 mei 1721 Man: Johan Juriens, Surhuisterveen Vrouw: Anna Catharina Kipping, Surhuisterveen 2. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 22 februari 1723, Achtkarspelen Man: Wilhelmus Kuepper, Surhuisterveen Vrouw: Friene Bloem, Surhuisterveen 3. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 28 februari 1724, Achtkarspelen Man: Jan Hendrix Kalckleser, Surhuisterveen Vrouw: Anna Lijs Laijen, Surhuisterveen [bron: Sebo H.Abels (Eexterzandvoort - 2005): Jan Hindrick Kalckleser [=John Henry Kalckloser] is in 1721 vermaner der Hoogduitse doopsgezinde gemeente te Groningen, en is samen met Alexander Mack eveneens vermaner bij de Brethern die zich tussen 1720 en 1729 te Surhuisterveen bevinden, afkomstig uit Schwarzenau in Zuid-Duitsland. Ze vertrekken in 1729 met het schip Allen naar Amerika en melden zich daar 11 september 1729. Hij trouwt met N.N. Hij hertrouwt 28 februari 1724 te Achtkarspelen (3e pr.) met Anna Lijs Laijen [=[?] Anna Catherine Lesle], ook afkomstig uit Schwarzenau, en tussen 1720 en 1729 wonende te Surhuisterveen, daarna naar Amerika; Kinderen van Jan Hindrick Kalckleser en N.N.: -1- [?] Christoffel Kalckleser [=Christopher Kalckloser] trouwt in 1729 met Maria Mackingh, -2- [?] Marie Kalckloser, -3- [?] Agnes Kalckloser, -4- [?] Immanuel Kalckloser, -5- [?] Jacob Kalckloser] [Jan Hendrix Kalckleser / John Henry Kalckloser en zijn vrouw Anna Lijs Laijen /Anna Catherine Lesle komen voor op de passagierslijst van het schip de 'Allen'] 4. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 30 oktober 1724, Achtkarspelen Man: Jacob Bosser, Surhuisterveen Vrouw: Susanna Keijmen, Surhuisterveen [Jacob Bosser /Jacob Bossert komt voor op de passagierslijst van het schip de 'Allen'] 5. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 26 februari 1725, Achtkarspelen Man: Joannes Mack, Surhuisterveen Vrouw: Joanna Margarita Suederen, Surhuisterveen [bron: Sebo H.Abels (Eexterzandvoort - 2005): Joannes Mack is mogelijk een zoon van Alexander Macken, te Schwarzenau, Groningen en Surhuisterveen, en N.N. Joannes maakt deel uit van de Brethern, afkomstig uit Schwarzenau. Hij verblijft tussen 1720 en 1729 te Surhuisterveen.] [Joannes Mack komt voor op de passagierslijst van het schip de 'Allen'] 6. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 12 maart 1725, Achtkarspelen Man: Johannes Lodewijck Beinum, Surhuisterveen Vrouw: Anne Senebeecken, Surhuisterveen 7. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 12 november 1725, Achtkarspelen Man: Christejaen Sneeder, Surhuisterveen Vrouw: Susanna Mackingh, Surhuisterveen [bron: Sebo H.Abels (Eexterzandvoort - 2005): Susanna Macking, mogelijk een dochter van Alexander Macken, vermaner van Schwarzenau, en N.N.] [Christejaen Sneeder / Cristian Schneider komt voor op de passagierslijst van het schip de 'Allen'] 8. Trouwregister Hervormde gemeente Surhuisterveen DTB nr. 27, 1688 - 1772 Vermelding: Bevestiging huwelijk van 10 maart 1726, Surhuisterveen Man: Hans Hoffer Vrouw: Catharina Hasse 9. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 6 december 1728, Achtkarspelen Man: Christoffel Kalckleser, Surhuisterveen Vrouw: Maria Mackingh, Surhuisterveen [Christoffel Kalckleser / Christopher Kalckloser komt voor op de passagierslijst van het schip de 'Allen']
In my previous message (see below) I forgot to mention that the "Johan Jurians" in Marriage No. 1 is John George Koch. Jurian is a name for George. John George Koch and his wife Anna Catharina [Kipping] Koch were passengers on the Ship Allen in 1729. I do not know why the marriage record left out his surname. Dwayne Wrightsman Subject: Nine Surhuisterveen Brethren Marriages > Below are nine Surhuisterveen Brethren marriages. These are not > translated. The source is listed first, then the date, then the name of > the husband, then the name of the wife, then comments. Seven of these > couples were on the Ship Allen in 1729. Enjoy! > > In de Feanster periode werden negen huwelijken binnen de groep van > Alexander Mack gesloten. Een en ander is te vinden in het Trouwregister > van het Gerecht van Achtkarspelen. We hebben echter geen huwelijken tussen > Feanster en Brethren kunnen vinden. > We laten in het onderstaande de namen van die Brethren volgen: > > 1. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen, 1721 > DTB nr: 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Bevestiging huwelijk van 19 mei 1721 > Man: Johan Juriens, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Anna Catharina Kipping, Surhuisterveen > > 2. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 22 februari 1723, Achtkarspelen > Man: Wilhelmus Kuepper, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Friene Bloem, Surhuisterveen > > 3. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 28 februari 1724, Achtkarspelen > Man: Jan Hendrix Kalckleser, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Anna Lijs Laijen, Surhuisterveen > [bron: Sebo H.Abels (Eexterzandvoort - 2005): Jan Hindrick Kalckleser > [=John > Henry Kalckloser] is in 1721 vermaner der Hoogduitse doopsgezinde > gemeente te > Groningen, en is samen met Alexander Mack eveneens vermaner bij de > Brethern die > zich tussen 1720 en 1729 te Surhuisterveen bevinden, afkomstig uit > Schwarzenau in > Zuid-Duitsland. Ze vertrekken in 1729 met het schip Allen naar Amerika > en melden zich > daar 11 september 1729. Hij trouwt met N.N. Hij hertrouwt 28 februari > 1724 te > Achtkarspelen (3e pr.) met Anna Lijs Laijen [=[?] Anna Catherine > Lesle], ook > afkomstig uit Schwarzenau, en tussen 1720 en 1729 wonende te > Surhuisterveen, daarna > naar Amerika; Kinderen van Jan Hindrick Kalckleser en N.N.: -1- [?] > Christoffel > Kalckleser [=Christopher Kalckloser] trouwt in 1729 met Maria > Mackingh, -2- [?] > Marie Kalckloser, -3- [?] Agnes Kalckloser, -4- [?] Immanuel > Kalckloser, -5- [?] Jacob > Kalckloser] > [Jan Hendrix Kalckleser / John Henry Kalckloser en zijn vrouw Anna Lijs > Laijen / > Anna Catherine Lesle komen voor op de passagierslijst van het schip de > 'Allen'] > > 4. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 30 oktober 1724, Achtkarspelen > Man: Jacob Bosser, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Susanna Keijmen, Surhuisterveen > [Jacob Bosser /Jacob Bossert komt voor op de passagierslijst van het > schip de 'Allen'] > > 5. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 26 februari 1725, Achtkarspelen > Man: Joannes Mack, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Joanna Margarita Suederen, Surhuisterveen > [bron: Sebo H.Abels (Eexterzandvoort - 2005): Joannes Mack is mogelijk > een zoon > van Alexander Macken, te Schwarzenau, Groningen en Surhuisterveen, en > N.N. Joannes > maakt deel uit van de Brethern, afkomstig uit Schwarzenau. Hij > verblijft tussen 1720 en > 1729 te Surhuisterveen.] > [Joannes Mack komt voor op de passagierslijst van het schip de 'Allen'] > > 6. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 12 maart 1725, Achtkarspelen > Man: Johannes Lodewijck Beinum, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Anne Senebeecken, Surhuisterveen > > 7. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 12 november 1725, Achtkarspelen > Man: Christejaen Sneeder, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Susanna Mackingh, Surhuisterveen > [bron: Sebo H.Abels (Eexterzandvoort - 2005): Susanna Macking, mogelijk > een > dochter van Alexander Macken, vermaner van Schwarzenau, en N.N.] > [Christejaen Sneeder / Cristian Schneider komt voor op de > passagierslijst van het schip > de 'Allen'] > > 8. Trouwregister Hervormde gemeente Surhuisterveen > DTB nr. 27, 1688 - 1772 > Vermelding: Bevestiging huwelijk van 10 maart 1726, Surhuisterveen > Man: Hans Hoffer > Vrouw: Catharina Hasse > > 9. Trouwregister Gerecht Achtkarspelen > DTB nr. 1, 1606 - 1725 > Vermelding: Derde proclamatie van 6 december 1728, Achtkarspelen > Man: Christoffel Kalckleser, Surhuisterveen > Vrouw: Maria Mackingh, Surhuisterveen > [Christoffel Kalckleser / Christopher Kalckloser komt voor op de > passagierslijst van het > schip de 'Allen']