Can anyone help me with the Shook family of Frederick Co. ( now Washington Co. ) Maryland. Trying to determine if any of these descendants ended up in Greene County, Ohio. Lawrence Shook b. 1733 is said to have been associated with the German Baptist Brethren. Shook spelling also Schock/Schuck. German Lutheran. Herman Shook b. ca. 1718 is said to have been of German Lutheran faith. From Hardy County Virginia. Any help on these two families would be greatly appreciated. Trying to determine a possible connection between the two families. Thank you, Rebecca Houdeshell Stephens

I am a descendant of Lawrence Shook but by no means an expert on the family. From all that I have found it is still inconclusive where he was a son, a relative or just someone with the same last name as Harmonious (Herman) Shook. Would be pretty coincidental if they are not related to be living in such close proximity. I look forward to postings on this family.....Nancy Rebecca Stephens <blhstair1@bright.net> wrote: Can anyone help me with the Shook family of Frederick Co. ( now Washington Co. ) Maryland. Trying to determine if any of these descendants ended up in Greene County, Ohio. Lawrence Shook b. 1733 is said to have been associated with the German Baptist Brethren. Shook spelling also Schock/Schuck. German Lutheran. Herman Shook b. ca. 1718 is said to have been of German Lutheran faith. >From Hardy County Virginia. Any help on these two families would be greatly appreciated. Trying to determine a possible connection between the two families. Thank you, Rebecca Houdeshell Stephens ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To anyone who cares to comment: I'm now writing the final page trying to --not finish-  but leave all possible records -   on Francis Stump . If his connection in Penna with ANY Washabaugh family --    and any knowledge if the Washabaugh family had any connection with Brethren, will be of inestimable help.  Thank you all - again - for  your help. Liz Stump ----- Original Message ---- From: Janet Hall <janlcpc@mchsi.com> To: brethren@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 4:31:30 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Jacob Schneider, d. 1793, Germantown, Phil. Co. The town of Intercourse Pa is in Leacock Twp. (Co. established in 1729 per sign at city limits).  I don't know if that is close to Weber-Thal.  My ancestors 1st settled there (Leacock Twp. _and later moved near Brickerville where there is an early Lutheran church and a Reformed Church known as  Zion Reformed and "Royer's" ( . . These locations may be worth checking out as sometimes families seemed to re-locate in groups. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Myers" <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Jacob Schneider, d. 1793, Germantown, Phil. Co. > The historical account of Christian, Mathias and Jacob Schneider that is > in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA] is beginning to look more > and more plausible to me, but I still have a lot of doubts about it.  I > have copies of the article from the original book but it is quite lengthy > and I don't want to transcribe all of it.  There is a recapitulation of > the article at these two URLs. > > http://www.pa-roots.org/data/read.php?31,103156 > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/PAMONROE/2002-04/1018816285 > > They are about as long as the original article, but not exact copies for > some reason.  Anyway, the article states that Christian settled on > Conestoga Creek and attended Zeltenreich Church in New Holland, Lancaster > Co., PA.  The article also states, "Jacob Schneider and Matheis Schneider > took up by patent about 250 acres some distance northeast of Weber-Thal, > where Center (now St. John's) Reformed and Lutheran Church is erected." > This church apparently is in East Earl Twp. of Lancaster Co., PA but its > records (if I remember right) don't start anywhere near to the 1730's, so > I don't know what church Jacob and Mathias would have attended.  I could > see that it might be Zeltenreich but there is a problem there as well. > The LDS holdings indicate that the Zeltenreich baptisms don't start until > 1746 but Christian's descendants say he had children baptized in the > 1730's, supposedly in that area.  These couldn't have taken place at the > Trinity Lutheran (or Ev. Luth.) Church in New Holland because our library > has the records for that church and Christian's children aren't listed. > > So this is very confusing and I hope that other folks on the list will > have the information that I need to make sense of this.  I should mention > that the article says of the Schneiders, "[t]hey were all followers of > Zwingli," whom I believe was a leader in the Reformed religion.  This is > consistent with the Jacob Schneider (1710-1793) who lived in Germantown > since he and his wife were buried in a Reformed Church cemetery.  I > wonder if anyone knows where this Weber-Thal area is located.  William > Thomas mentioned that he knew of a Matthias Schneider who owned land in > Leacock Township.  Maybe that's near Weber-Thal? > > I also would like to know which Reformed Church records to look in to > find the children of Christian Schneider.  They must have been baptized > somewhere since I have seen specific baptism dates, etc.  I also would > like to know if there were Brethren congregations in eastern Lancaster > Co., PA in the 1730's.  I'm thinking that the Schneiders might have > settled in that area to be near a Brethren congregation but later > converted to the Reformed Church. > > David Myers > > > > ========================= > > On Thu, 1 May 2008 19:38:27 -0500 myerswd@juno.com writes: >> I believe that this man is the Jacob Schneider who was a brother of >> Anna >> Margaret (Schneider) Mack.  There is a Jacob Schneider in Germantown >> from >> 1760 through 1794, and there appears to be only one of them in each >> record, implying that there was only one living there throughout >> this >> period.  Jacob isn't listed in the 1734 land records and there are >> two >> explanations for this.  One, he didn't own any land at that time, >> which >> is consistent with him being listed as a laborer in 1794.  However, >> if he >> didn't have any property, what did he need a will for?  Two, he may >> have >> moved to Germantown sometime before 1760 after living elsewhere for >> the >> previous twenty to thirty years.  This is consistent with a >> historical >> account in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA]. >> >> I wasn't able to find a cemetery record for Jacob so that may be an >> indication that he didn't have a headstone originally or that the >> one he >> did have weathered away to illegibility.  I did find a cemetery >> record >> for his daughter, Margaret, who was buried at the Market Square >> Presbyterian Church.  She was born about 1735-1736, which is >> consistent >> with Jacob being born in the early 1700's.  Margaret Snyder was a >> benefactor of this church so I hope that there may be more >> information >> about her in the church records than what is on the headstone.  I >> have >> ordered a film of the church records so I'll soon see. >> >> The following will summaries may or not apply to this family.  The >> first >> two are for Jacob and his daughter, Margaret.  The third may be for >> Jacob's son, Peter, but I doubt it since his occupation doesn't seem >> real >> consistent with Jacob's.  The last will has Jacob as a witness. >> >> David Myers >> >> ==================== >> Wills: Abstracts, Philadelphia Co, PA. >> >> Contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by Thera, Jack Bowman, and >> Judy. >> >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/pafiles.htm >> >> >> SCHNEIDER, JACOB. Germantown. Co. of Phila. Labourer. >> November 2, 1793. January 2, 1794. X.4. >> Children: Peter, Margaret, Elizabeth Bass. >> Exec: William Holbe, Daughter Margaret Schneider. >> Wit: Leonard Sommers, John Myer, Jacob Knorr. >> >> SCHNEIDER, MARGARET.  Germantown, City of Phila. >> November 5, 1806.  November 17, 1806.  2.26. >> Legacy to Germantown German Presbyterian burying ground.  All >> property to >> be sold, interest thereof to her niece Mary Schneider.  After her >> death >> the principal to Jacob and Enoch Schneider, my nephews, and Margaret >> Bass >> and Margaret Beck, my relations. >> Wit:  John H. Lower, William Dedier, John Conrad. >> >> SCHNEIDER, PETER. County of Philadelphia. Dr. of Physick. >> October 30, 1817. June 16, 1823.  8.33. >> Exrx. wife: Mary Ann Schneider to whom I leave all estate. >> Wit: Robert Whitehead, Charles Rubicom. >> >> HARTMAN, ADAM. Germantown, Phila. Co. Starch maker. >> August 24, 1775. October 2, 1775. >> Wife: Mary Margaret. >> Children: John, Barbara, Margaret and Gertrude. Grandson: John Keen. >> Execs.: Mary Margaret Hartman and Jno. Hook. >> Wit: Jacob Schneider, Daniel Luken and John Lehman. Q.203. > > >                              ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >                              ------------------------ >                        Support Our Sponsoring Agency >            The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com >                              ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1463 - Release Date: 5/23/2008 > 3:36 PM > >                               ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN                               ------------------------                         Support Our Sponsoring Agency             The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com                               ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dale Ratcliffe wrote: > Recently I received some meeting minutes from a COB church in Arizona. The > minutes frequently referred to "letters." Could someone explain the use of > letters? Were they used for transferring membership from one church to > another and as proof of church business? Here are some examples: > > > > Bro. Peter Forney was granted a traveling letter. > > Bro. Isaac Forney also asked for his letter again but it was refused because > he was not leaving. > > Letters were granted to Sister Bertha Gillett and Bro. Ezra Fike > > Letters received as follows: Ruben Young (Deacon) and wife Clara. > > Bro. J.G. Rarick and wife was granted letter of membership > > The following letters were received. > ************************* In the Church of the Brethren, these letters are almost entirely for transfer of membership. It is normal to give a letter to families as they move away. I have seen such letters going back to the early 1800s. Merle C Rummel

Dale, "Letters" is shorthand for "letters of membership (transfer)." I am not sure of the "traveling letter." But normally it is the case that churches, on request, grant a letter of membership that is sent directly to another congregation, and not given to the member. The member normally requests that their membership be transferred, and on approval by the congregation or Official Board (maybe Church Board now), it would be sent. Sometimes there was a receipt returned informing the sending congregation that the member had been received. Some congregations only transfer membership to another Church of the Brethren, and not to other denominational churches. That is why the Isaac Forney wasn't given his letter. He was still in the community, and wasn't going to another Church of the Brethren. Hope this helps. Craig Alan Myers At 10:33 PM 5/24/2008, you wrote: >Recently I received some meeting minutes from a COB church in Arizona. The >minutes frequently referred to "letters." Could someone explain the use of >letters? Were they used for transferring membership from one church to >another and as proof of church business? Here are some examples: > > > >Bro. Peter Forney was granted a traveling letter. > >Bro. Isaac Forney also asked for his letter again but it was refused because >he was not leaving. > >Letters were granted to Sister Bertha Gillett and Bro. Ezra Fike > >Letters received as follows: Ruben Young (Deacon) and wife Clara. > >Bro. J.G. Rarick and wife was granted letter of membership > >The following letters were received. > > > ------------------------ >Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) >For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pre-1940s, persons of civility "introduced" a person by giving a letter, kind of like a "recommendation." Sort of "I know Charlie and he's a good guy" in today's standards. The religious practice of letters no doubt grew from that societal trend of an introductory letter. But in churches (not just German Bapists // COB), a Letter showed that a Member had been or is still a member, in good standing, and either stated or implied the person's character. Letters were used to transfer membership to another church... and sometimes, people changed churches every year (I read of one couple in a "First Christian" church who moved several times in & out of a church in one year). Letters could also introduce the person and pave the way for business matters. If John Smith was elected by the church to go to X church to discuss X difficulty or X proposed plan, Mr. Smith likely was issued a church Letter. Your examples: Bro. Peter Forney was granted a traveling letter. Maybe he was going on a church errand... or, he was taking a trip and would be stopping at other churches, but he was not giving up his Home church membership. Bro. Isaac Forney also asked for his letter again but it was refused because he was not leaving. -- Maybe this guy had some kind of church business his Home church wanted him to address...maybe he was not going to be in good standing so therefore the church was holding back his letter until he completed his obligation. Or, maybe he planned to move but long into the future? Letters were granted to Sister Bertha Gillett and Bro. Ezra Fike -- likely moving, needing to go to a new church, in good standing Letters received as follows: Ruben Young (Deacon) and wife Clara. -- this is how members (transfers) are accepted into the new congregation Bro. J.G. Rarick and wife was granted letter of membership -- Both had demonstrated whatever ideals of the church, expressed interest in being members, and the congregation accepted them into the membership. The following letters were received. Again, this is how members (transfers) are accepted into the new congregation. "Received" seemed to always mean "we read it and accepted the member" -- not 'we got this letter in hand now', like receiving a letter in your mailbox. Judy On 5/24/08, Dale Ratcliffe <daleratcliffe@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > Recently I received some meeting minutes from a COB church in Arizona. The > minutes frequently referred to "letters." Could someone explain the use of > letters? Were they used for transferring membership from one church to > another and as proof of church business? Here are some examples: > > > >

Recently I received some meeting minutes from a COB church in Arizona. The minutes frequently referred to "letters." Could someone explain the use of letters? Were they used for transferring membership from one church to another and as proof of church business? Here are some examples: Bro. Peter Forney was granted a traveling letter. Bro. Isaac Forney also asked for his letter again but it was refused because he was not leaving. Letters were granted to Sister Bertha Gillett and Bro. Ezra Fike Letters received as follows: Ruben Young (Deacon) and wife Clara. Bro. J.G. Rarick and wife was granted letter of membership The following letters were received.

The town of Intercourse Pa is in Leacock Twp. (Co. established in 1729 per sign at city limits). I don't know if that is close to Weber-Thal. My ancestors 1st settled there (Leacock Twp. _and later moved near Brickerville where there is an early Lutheran church and a Reformed Church known as Zion Reformed and "Royer's" ( . . These locations may be worth checking out as sometimes families seemed to re-locate in groups. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Myers" <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Jacob Schneider, d. 1793, Germantown, Phil. Co. > The historical account of Christian, Mathias and Jacob Schneider that is > in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA] is beginning to look more > and more plausible to me, but I still have a lot of doubts about it. I > have copies of the article from the original book but it is quite lengthy > and I don't want to transcribe all of it. There is a recapitulation of > the article at these two URLs. > > http://www.pa-roots.org/data/read.php?31,103156 > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/PAMONROE/2002-04/1018816285 > > They are about as long as the original article, but not exact copies for > some reason. Anyway, the article states that Christian settled on > Conestoga Creek and attended Zeltenreich Church in New Holland, Lancaster > Co., PA. The article also states, "Jacob Schneider and Matheis Schneider > took up by patent about 250 acres some distance northeast of Weber-Thal, > where Center (now St. John's) Reformed and Lutheran Church is erected." > This church apparently is in East Earl Twp. of Lancaster Co., PA but its > records (if I remember right) don't start anywhere near to the 1730's, so > I don't know what church Jacob and Mathias would have attended. I could > see that it might be Zeltenreich but there is a problem there as well. > The LDS holdings indicate that the Zeltenreich baptisms don't start until > 1746 but Christian's descendants say he had children baptized in the > 1730's, supposedly in that area. These couldn't have taken place at the > Trinity Lutheran (or Ev. Luth.) Church in New Holland because our library > has the records for that church and Christian's children aren't listed. > > So this is very confusing and I hope that other folks on the list will > have the information that I need to make sense of this. I should mention > that the article says of the Schneiders, "[t]hey were all followers of > Zwingli," whom I believe was a leader in the Reformed religion. This is > consistent with the Jacob Schneider (1710-1793) who lived in Germantown > since he and his wife were buried in a Reformed Church cemetery. I > wonder if anyone knows where this Weber-Thal area is located. William > Thomas mentioned that he knew of a Matthias Schneider who owned land in > Leacock Township. Maybe that's near Weber-Thal? > > I also would like to know which Reformed Church records to look in to > find the children of Christian Schneider. They must have been baptized > somewhere since I have seen specific baptism dates, etc. I also would > like to know if there were Brethren congregations in eastern Lancaster > Co., PA in the 1730's. I'm thinking that the Schneiders might have > settled in that area to be near a Brethren congregation but later > converted to the Reformed Church. > > David Myers > > > > ========================= > > On Thu, 1 May 2008 19:38:27 -0500 myerswd@juno.com writes: >> I believe that this man is the Jacob Schneider who was a brother of >> Anna >> Margaret (Schneider) Mack. There is a Jacob Schneider in Germantown >> from >> 1760 through 1794, and there appears to be only one of them in each >> record, implying that there was only one living there throughout >> this >> period. Jacob isn't listed in the 1734 land records and there are >> two >> explanations for this. One, he didn't own any land at that time, >> which >> is consistent with him being listed as a laborer in 1794. However, >> if he >> didn't have any property, what did he need a will for? Two, he may >> have >> moved to Germantown sometime before 1760 after living elsewhere for >> the >> previous twenty to thirty years. This is consistent with a >> historical >> account in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA]. >> >> I wasn't able to find a cemetery record for Jacob so that may be an >> indication that he didn't have a headstone originally or that the >> one he >> did have weathered away to illegibility. I did find a cemetery >> record >> for his daughter, Margaret, who was buried at the Market Square >> Presbyterian Church. She was born about 1735-1736, which is >> consistent >> with Jacob being born in the early 1700's. Margaret Snyder was a >> benefactor of this church so I hope that there may be more >> information >> about her in the church records than what is on the headstone. I >> have >> ordered a film of the church records so I'll soon see. >> >> The following will summaries may or not apply to this family. The >> first >> two are for Jacob and his daughter, Margaret. The third may be for >> Jacob's son, Peter, but I doubt it since his occupation doesn't seem >> real >> consistent with Jacob's. The last will has Jacob as a witness. >> >> David Myers >> >> ==================== >> Wills: Abstracts, Philadelphia Co, PA. >> >> Contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by Thera, Jack Bowman, and >> Judy. >> >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/pafiles.htm >> >> >> SCHNEIDER, JACOB. Germantown. Co. of Phila. Labourer. >> November 2, 1793. January 2, 1794. X.4. >> Children: Peter, Margaret, Elizabeth Bass. >> Exec: William Holbe, Daughter Margaret Schneider. >> Wit: Leonard Sommers, John Myer, Jacob Knorr. >> >> SCHNEIDER, MARGARET. Germantown, City of Phila. >> November 5, 1806. November 17, 1806. 2.26. >> Legacy to Germantown German Presbyterian burying ground. All >> property to >> be sold, interest thereof to her niece Mary Schneider. After her >> death >> the principal to Jacob and Enoch Schneider, my nephews, and Margaret >> Bass >> and Margaret Beck, my relations. >> Wit: John H. Lower, William Dedier, John Conrad. >> >> SCHNEIDER, PETER. County of Philadelphia. Dr. of Physick. >> October 30, 1817. June 16, 1823. 8.33. >> Exrx. wife: Mary Ann Schneider to whom I leave all estate. >> Wit: Robert Whitehead, Charles Rubicom. >> >> HARTMAN, ADAM. Germantown, Phila. Co. Starch maker. >> August 24, 1775. October 2, 1775. >> Wife: Mary Margaret. >> Children: John, Barbara, Margaret and Gertrude. Grandson: John Keen. >> Execs.: Mary Margaret Hartman and Jno. Hook. >> Wit: Jacob Schneider, Daniel Luken and John Lehman. Q.203. > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1463 - Release Date: 5/23/2008 > 3:36 PM > >

Dwayne, I think that it's possible that the Mathias Schneider on the Allen was a brother of the Christian and Jacob Schneider on the same ship but was not Brethren. Maybe the Brethren people were recorded together for some reason so Mathias wouldn't have been listed with them even though he was a brother of the other Schneiders on board. I don't know enough about how these passenger lists were recorded to know how likely this is but it probably should be considered a possibility. What I would really like to find is a database extraction at familysearch.org for the town where the Brethren Schneider family came from. Since I have a birth date (calculated) for the Johann Jacob Schneider who is buried in the Reformed Church cemetery in Germantown, I looked for Johann Jacob and Jacob Schneiders at the LDS site but was not able to find a match. If I had found a match, that would have made things a lot easier but that isn't what happened. David Myers On Thu, 22 May 2008 22:22:26 -0400 "Dwayne Wrightsman" <dwayne55@comcast.net> writes: > David, > > I think you might save yourself some grief by not looking at all the > > Schneiders whose given names were Christian, Jacob, and Mathias. I > went > this route in preparing for my Ship Allen Brethren paper for the > July FOBG > meeting in Richmond, and, after spinning wheels for far too long, I > discovered that the surname Schneider is too common a name and that > the > Schneiders appear in almost all counties and townships therein. > Rest > assured that your Jacob Schneider lived in the Germantown area. I > still > haven't been able to trace Christian Schneider. As for Mathias > Schneider, I > am not convinced that he was part of the Mack Brethren party on the > Allen, > or that he was even related to Christian and Jacob who were in > Mack's party. > > Dwayne

Dwayne, Thanks for your input. I found the reference to Jacob Schneider in the PMHB and I have a few thoughts that may be helpful. 1. There isn't any way to tell how old this person is. It could be a young boy, an older boy, a middle-aged man, or someone older. Could be any of those since only the burial date is listed. 2. The fact that someone subscribed to the organization that made repairs on the Upper Germantown burying-ground doesn't necessarily mean that they were buried there. There is a Christian Schneider who subscribed in both 1760 and 1776 and I believe that there isn't a Christian Schneider in the burying-ground. This subscriber probably is the Christian Schneider who is buried in St. Michael's Lutheran Church cemetery, Germantown (1726-1802). Also, Alexander Mack, Jr. was a subscriber both years and is buried in the Church of the Brethren cemetery in Germantown. This is puzzling to me but I suppose that maintaining the burying-ground may have been seen as a community service, so they contributed funds towards its upkeep but were buried elsewhere. 3. There are people buried in the Upper Germantown burying-ground who are associated with the Reformed Church in Germantown. Adam Snyder, Sr. and Jr. are both buried there but Adam, Jr. attended his first communion at the Reformed Church. I believe that he was baptized there as well but I didn't take notes on that family since I was concentrating on the Jacob Schneider family. I suspect that the Upper Germantown burying-ground was more of a community graveyard than a Brethren graveyard. Plus, it seems unlikely to me that there would two Jacob Schneiders who died in Germantown in late Dec 1793 who were about the same age. I guess that it's theoretically possible but unlikely nonetheless. Anyway, you may have a different conclusion since there is some ambiguity here but what evidence there is seems to me to point to the man buried in the Reformed Church cemetery in Germantown. David Myers On Thu, 22 May 2008 20:47:47 -0400 "Dwayne Wrightsman" <dwayne55@comcast.net> writes: > David, > > I think that the Jacob Schneider you are looking for is the one who > was > buried on December 22, 1793, in the Upper Germantown Burying Ground. > It was > a Brethren cemetery, although not exclusively so, whose overseers > from 1760 > were Brethren Ludwig Engelhard and George Schreiber. You might want > to take > a look at Peter D. Keyser, M.D., "A History of the Upper Germantown > Burying-Ground, Germantown Avenue (Main Street) above Washington > Avenue," > THE PENNSYLVANIA MAGAZINE OF HISTORY AND BIOGRAPHY, Vol. VIII, No. > 1, 1884, > pp. 414-426. > > This Jacob Schneider provided financial support for the cemetery > along with > a considerable number of well-known Brethren. In 1760 he gave 10 > shillings. > In 1776 he gave 5 shillings. I would assume that he was Brethren > and > neither Reformed nor Presbyterian. > > The Jacob Schneider you describe doesn't seem on the surface to be > your man > in all respects. As I recall there were many, many Schneiders in > the > Germantown area at the time, so I would consider the possibility > that you > have a mix of information about the Schneiders. > > Dwayne Wrightsman

David, I think you might save yourself some grief by not looking at all the Schneiders whose given names were Christian, Jacob, and Mathias. I went this route in preparing for my Ship Allen Brethren paper for the July FOBG meeting in Richmond, and, after spinning wheels for far too long, I discovered that the surname Schneider is too common a name and that the Schneiders appear in almost all counties and townships therein. Rest assured that your Jacob Schneider lived in the Germantown area. I still haven't been able to trace Christian Schneider. As for Mathias Schneider, I am not convinced that he was part of the Mack Brethren party on the Allen, or that he was even related to Christian and Jacob who were in Mack's party. Dwayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Myers" <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Jacob Schneider, d. 1793, Germantown, Phil. Co. > The historical account of Christian, Mathias and Jacob Schneider that is > in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA] is beginning to look more > and more plausible to me, but I still have a lot of doubts about it. I > have copies of the article from the original book but it is quite lengthy > and I don't want to transcribe all of it. There is a recapitulation of > the article at these two URLs. > > http://www.pa-roots.org/data/read.php?31,103156 > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/PAMONROE/2002-04/1018816285 > > They are about as long as the original article, but not exact copies for > some reason. Anyway, the article states that Christian settled on > Conestoga Creek and attended Zeltenreich Church in New Holland, Lancaster > Co., PA. The article also states, "Jacob Schneider and Matheis Schneider > took up by patent about 250 acres some distance northeast of Weber-Thal, > where Center (now St. John's) Reformed and Lutheran Church is erected." > This church apparently is in East Earl Twp. of Lancaster Co., PA but its > records (if I remember right) don't start anywhere near to the 1730's, so > I don't know what church Jacob and Mathias would have attended. I could > see that it might be Zeltenreich but there is a problem there as well. > The LDS holdings indicate that the Zeltenreich baptisms don't start until > 1746 but Christian's descendants say he had children baptized in the > 1730's, supposedly in that area. These couldn't have taken place at the > Trinity Lutheran (or Ev. Luth.) Church in New Holland because our library > has the records for that church and Christian's children aren't listed. > > So this is very confusing and I hope that other folks on the list will > have the information that I need to make sense of this. I should mention > that the article says of the Schneiders, "[t]hey were all followers of > Zwingli," whom I believe was a leader in the Reformed religion. This is > consistent with the Jacob Schneider (1710-1793) who lived in Germantown > since he and his wife were buried in a Reformed Church cemetery. I > wonder if anyone knows where this Weber-Thal area is located. William > Thomas mentioned that he knew of a Matthias Schneider who owned land in > Leacock Township. Maybe that's near Weber-Thal? > > I also would like to know which Reformed Church records to look in to > find the children of Christian Schneider. They must have been baptized > somewhere since I have seen specific baptism dates, etc. I also would > like to know if there were Brethren congregations in eastern Lancaster > Co., PA in the 1730's. I'm thinking that the Schneiders might have > settled in that area to be near a Brethren congregation but later > converted to the Reformed Church. > > David Myers > > > > ========================= > > On Thu, 1 May 2008 19:38:27 -0500 myerswd@juno.com writes: >> I believe that this man is the Jacob Schneider who was a brother of >> Anna >> Margaret (Schneider) Mack. There is a Jacob Schneider in Germantown >> from >> 1760 through 1794, and there appears to be only one of them in each >> record, implying that there was only one living there throughout >> this >> period. Jacob isn't listed in the 1734 land records and there are >> two >> explanations for this. One, he didn't own any land at that time, >> which >> is consistent with him being listed as a laborer in 1794. However, >> if he >> didn't have any property, what did he need a will for? Two, he may >> have >> moved to Germantown sometime before 1760 after living elsewhere for >> the >> previous twenty to thirty years. This is consistent with a >> historical >> account in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA]. >> >> I wasn't able to find a cemetery record for Jacob so that may be an >> indication that he didn't have a headstone originally or that the >> one he >> did have weathered away to illegibility. I did find a cemetery >> record >> for his daughter, Margaret, who was buried at the Market Square >> Presbyterian Church. She was born about 1735-1736, which is >> consistent >> with Jacob being born in the early 1700's. Margaret Snyder was a >> benefactor of this church so I hope that there may be more >> information >> about her in the church records than what is on the headstone. I >> have >> ordered a film of the church records so I'll soon see. >> >> The following will summaries may or not apply to this family. The >> first >> two are for Jacob and his daughter, Margaret. The third may be for >> Jacob's son, Peter, but I doubt it since his occupation doesn't seem >> real >> consistent with Jacob's. The last will has Jacob as a witness. >> >> David Myers >> >> ==================== >> Wills: Abstracts, Philadelphia Co, PA. >> >> Contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by Thera, Jack Bowman, and >> Judy. >> >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/pafiles.htm >> >> >> SCHNEIDER, JACOB. Germantown. Co. of Phila. Labourer. >> November 2, 1793. January 2, 1794. X.4. >> Children: Peter, Margaret, Elizabeth Bass. >> Exec: William Holbe, Daughter Margaret Schneider. >> Wit: Leonard Sommers, John Myer, Jacob Knorr. >> >> SCHNEIDER, MARGARET. Germantown, City of Phila. >> November 5, 1806. November 17, 1806. 2.26. >> Legacy to Germantown German Presbyterian burying ground. All >> property to >> be sold, interest thereof to her niece Mary Schneider. After her >> death >> the principal to Jacob and Enoch Schneider, my nephews, and Margaret >> Bass >> and Margaret Beck, my relations. >> Wit: John H. Lower, William Dedier, John Conrad. >> >> SCHNEIDER, PETER. County of Philadelphia. Dr. of Physick. >> October 30, 1817. June 16, 1823. 8.33. >> Exrx. wife: Mary Ann Schneider to whom I leave all estate. >> Wit: Robert Whitehead, Charles Rubicom. >> >> HARTMAN, ADAM. Germantown, Phila. Co. Starch maker. >> August 24, 1775. October 2, 1775. >> Wife: Mary Margaret. >> Children: John, Barbara, Margaret and Gertrude. Grandson: John Keen. >> Execs.: Mary Margaret Hartman and Jno. Hook. >> Wit: Jacob Schneider, Daniel Luken and John Lehman. Q.203.

David, Another consideration is the changing boundaries of Germantown. Old Germantown was a pretty big place, but by the time the Ship Allen people got there it was carved into several entities, from south to north: German-Town, Krisheim, Somerhausen, and Crevelt. Alexander Mack Jr. lived on North Wales Road in Krefeld. In the 1774 letter from Jacob Mack to his uncle Alexander Jr., Jacob sent greetings to his mother's brother (Jacob Schneider) and also to Lewis Engelhard and George Schreiber, the overseers of the Upper Germantown Burying-Ground. Sure seems like a bunch of Brethren neighbors to me. Dwayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Myers" <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Jacob Schneider, d. 1793, Germantown, Phil. Co. >I got the film with the records for the Market Square Presbyterian > Church, Germantown, PA and I have significantly more information about > the Jacob Schneider who died in 1793; however, I didn't get what I was > looking for, which was personal information such as birth places, etc. > The consistory records are included on the film and they did mention > Margaret's bequest to the church but there wasn't any personal > information about her in that record. > > The burial records are more confusing than what I would have liked but > the two people below appear to be Margaret's parents. What I don't > understand is why Jacob would be listed as John in this burial record. > Maybe his full name was Johann Jacob Schneider (wouldn't be very > surprising) and it didn't get written down correctly in the church > records. Surely it must be the same guy as the Jacob Schneider whose > will was probated on 2 Jan 1794. And this Anna Barbara must be > Margaret's mother since she was born in 1710, just as Johann Jacob > Schneider was. > > This Jacob Schneider would have been about 19 when the Allen sailed in > 1729 so I am about 90% certain that the Jacob Schneider (1710-1793) who > lived in Germantown is the brother of Anna Margaret (Schneider) Mack. > The weird part is why Margaret would have been baptized in her mid-60's > since the family must have belonged to the Reformed Church in 1760, when > Anna Barbara was buried. Margaret was about 24 at that time and surely > would have belonged to the same religion as her parents. So why was she > baptized again in 1804? Doesn't make sense. Also, were the parents in > the Reformed Church for their entire adult lives or did they convert at > some time, possibly from the Brethren religion? > > In order to solve these problems, I think I will need to figure out where > Jacob Schneider lived in the 1729-1760 time period, which could be very > difficult given how common a name Jacob Schneider is. If you assume that > they belonged to the Reformed religion before 1760, there must be some > records listing them in some way or another. If I can make an > intelligent guess as to where they lived, I can look in Reformed Churches > in that area. It's beginning to look as if the historical account in > Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA] may be accurate, which I > will deal with in another post since this one is getting a little long > already. > > David Myers > > > ----------------------- > Church record of the Germantown Reformed Church, now Market Square > Presbyterian Church, Germantown, 1753-1856 (FHL film #20,347): > > Baptisms. > Margaret, b. Aug. 5, 1738, bapt. Mar. 30, 1804; parents -- Jacob and Anna > Barbara Schneider; sponsors -- Adult. > > Burials. > Anna Barbara Schneider, 50 years, 4 months old, buried May 11, 1760. > John [sic?] Schneider, 83 years, 2 months, 9 days old, died December 28, > 1793, buried December 30, 1793. > > > > > =========================== > > On Thu, 1 May 2008 19:38:27 -0500 myerswd@juno.com writes: >> I believe that this man is the Jacob Schneider who was a brother of >> Anna >> Margaret (Schneider) Mack. There is a Jacob Schneider in Germantown >> from >> 1760 through 1794, and there appears to be only one of them in each >> record, implying that there was only one living there throughout >> this >> period. Jacob isn't listed in the 1734 land records and there are >> two >> explanations for this. One, he didn't own any land at that time, >> which >> is consistent with him being listed as a laborer in 1794. However, >> if he >> didn't have any property, what did he need a will for? Two, he may >> have >> moved to Germantown sometime before 1760 after living elsewhere for >> the >> previous twenty to thirty years. This is consistent with a >> historical >> account in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA]. >> >> I wasn't able to find a cemetery record for Jacob so that may be an >> indication that he didn't have a headstone originally or that the >> one he >> did have weathered away to illegibility. I did find a cemetery >> record >> for his daughter, Margaret, who was buried at the Market Square >> Presbyterian Church. She was born about 1735-1736, which is >> consistent >> with Jacob being born in the early 1700's. Margaret Snyder was a >> benefactor of this church so I hope that there may be more >> information >> about her in the church records than what is on the headstone. I >> have >> ordered a film of the church records so I'll soon see. >> >> The following will summaries may or not apply to this family. The >> first >> two are for Jacob and his daughter, Margaret. The third may be for >> Jacob's son, Peter, but I doubt it since his occupation doesn't seem >> real >> consistent with Jacob's. The last will has Jacob as a witness. >> >> David Myers >> >> ==================== >> Wills: Abstracts, Philadelphia Co, PA. >> >> Contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by Thera, Jack Bowman, and >> Judy. >> >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/pafiles.htm >> >> >> SCHNEIDER, JACOB. Germantown. Co. of Phila. Labourer. >> November 2, 1793. January 2, 1794. X.4. >> Children: Peter, Margaret, Elizabeth Bass. >> Exec: William Holbe, Daughter Margaret Schneider. >> Wit: Leonard Sommers, John Myer, Jacob Knorr. >> >> SCHNEIDER, MARGARET. Germantown, City of Phila. >> November 5, 1806. November 17, 1806. 2.26. >> Legacy to Germantown German Presbyterian burying ground. All >> property to >> be sold, interest thereof to her niece Mary Schneider. After her >> death >> the principal to Jacob and Enoch Schneider, my nephews, and Margaret >> Bass >> and Margaret Beck, my relations. >> Wit: John H. Lower, William Dedier, John Conrad. >> >> SCHNEIDER, PETER. County of Philadelphia. Dr. of Physick. >> October 30, 1817. June 16, 1823. 8.33. >> Exrx. wife: Mary Ann Schneider to whom I leave all estate. >> Wit: Robert Whitehead, Charles Rubicom. >> >> HARTMAN, ADAM. Germantown, Phila. Co. Starch maker. >> August 24, 1775. October 2, 1775. >> Wife: Mary Margaret. >> Children: John, Barbara, Margaret and Gertrude. >> Grandson: John Keen. >> Execs.: Mary Margaret Hartman and Jno. Hook. >> Wit: Jacob Schneider, Daniel Luken and John Lehman. Q.203.

David, I think that the Jacob Schneider you are looking for is the one who was buried on December 22, 1793, in the Upper Germantown Burying Ground. It was a Brethren cemetery, although not exclusively so, whose overseers from 1760 were Brethren Ludwig Engelhard and George Schreiber. You might want to take a look at Peter D. Keyser, M.D., "A History of the Upper Germantown Burying-Ground, Germantown Avenue (Main Street) above Washington Avenue," THE PENNSYLVANIA MAGAZINE OF HISTORY AND BIOGRAPHY, Vol. VIII, No. 1, 1884, pp. 414-426. This Jacob Schneider provided financial support for the cemetery along with a considerable number of well-known Brethren. In 1760 he gave 10 shillings. In 1776 he gave 5 shillings. I would assume that he was Brethren and neither Reformed nor Presbyterian. The Jacob Schneider you describe doesn't seem on the surface to be your man in all respects. As I recall there were many, many Schneiders in the Germantown area at the time, so I would consider the possibility that you have a mix of information about the Schneiders. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Myers" <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Jacob Schneider, d. 1793, Germantown, Phil. Co. >I got the film with the records for the Market Square Presbyterian > Church, Germantown, PA and I have significantly more information about > the Jacob Schneider who died in 1793; however, I didn't get what I was > looking for, which was personal information such as birth places, etc. > The consistory records are included on the film and they did mention > Margaret's bequest to the church but there wasn't any personal > information about her in that record. > > The burial records are more confusing than what I would have liked but > the two people below appear to be Margaret's parents. What I don't > understand is why Jacob would be listed as John in this burial record. > Maybe his full name was Johann Jacob Schneider (wouldn't be very > surprising) and it didn't get written down correctly in the church > records. Surely it must be the same guy as the Jacob Schneider whose > will was probated on 2 Jan 1794. And this Anna Barbara must be > Margaret's mother since she was born in 1710, just as Johann Jacob > Schneider was. > > This Jacob Schneider would have been about 19 when the Allen sailed in > 1729 so I am about 90% certain that the Jacob Schneider (1710-1793) who > lived in Germantown is the brother of Anna Margaret (Schneider) Mack. > The weird part is why Margaret would have been baptized in her mid-60's > since the family must have belonged to the Reformed Church in 1760, when > Anna Barbara was buried. Margaret was about 24 at that time and surely > would have belonged to the same religion as her parents. So why was she > baptized again in 1804? Doesn't make sense. Also, were the parents in > the Reformed Church for their entire adult lives or did they convert at > some time, possibly from the Brethren religion? > > In order to solve these problems, I think I will need to figure out where > Jacob Schneider lived in the 1729-1760 time period, which could be very > difficult given how common a name Jacob Schneider is. If you assume that > they belonged to the Reformed religion before 1760, there must be some > records listing them in some way or another. If I can make an > intelligent guess as to where they lived, I can look in Reformed Churches > in that area. It's beginning to look as if the historical account in > Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA] may be accurate, which I > will deal with in another post since this one is getting a little long > already. > > David Myers > > > ----------------------- > Church record of the Germantown Reformed Church, now Market Square > Presbyterian Church, Germantown, 1753-1856 (FHL film #20,347): > > Baptisms. > Margaret, b. Aug. 5, 1738, bapt. Mar. 30, 1804; parents -- Jacob and Anna > Barbara Schneider; sponsors -- Adult. > > Burials. > Anna Barbara Schneider, 50 years, 4 months old, buried May 11, 1760. > John [sic?] Schneider, 83 years, 2 months, 9 days old, died December 28, > 1793, buried December 30, 1793. > > > > > =========================== > > On Thu, 1 May 2008 19:38:27 -0500 myerswd@juno.com writes: >> I believe that this man is the Jacob Schneider who was a brother of >> Anna >> Margaret (Schneider) Mack. There is a Jacob Schneider in Germantown >> from >> 1760 through 1794, and there appears to be only one of them in each >> record, implying that there was only one living there throughout >> this >> period. Jacob isn't listed in the 1734 land records and there are >> two >> explanations for this. One, he didn't own any land at that time, >> which >> is consistent with him being listed as a laborer in 1794. However, >> if he >> didn't have any property, what did he need a will for? Two, he may >> have >> moved to Germantown sometime before 1760 after living elsewhere for >> the >> previous twenty to thirty years. This is consistent with a >> historical >> account in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA]. >> >> I wasn't able to find a cemetery record for Jacob so that may be an >> indication that he didn't have a headstone originally or that the >> one he >> did have weathered away to illegibility. I did find a cemetery >> record >> for his daughter, Margaret, who was buried at the Market Square >> Presbyterian Church. She was born about 1735-1736, which is >> consistent >> with Jacob being born in the early 1700's. Margaret Snyder was a >> benefactor of this church so I hope that there may be more >> information >> about her in the church records than what is on the headstone. I >> have >> ordered a film of the church records so I'll soon see. >> >> The following will summaries may or not apply to this family. The >> first >> two are for Jacob and his daughter, Margaret. The third may be for >> Jacob's son, Peter, but I doubt it since his occupation doesn't seem >> real >> consistent with Jacob's. The last will has Jacob as a witness. >> >> David Myers >> >> ==================== >> Wills: Abstracts, Philadelphia Co, PA. >> >> Contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by Thera, Jack Bowman, and >> Judy. >> >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/pafiles.htm >> >> >> SCHNEIDER, JACOB. Germantown. Co. of Phila. Labourer. >> November 2, 1793. January 2, 1794. X.4. >> Children: Peter, Margaret, Elizabeth Bass. >> Exec: William Holbe, Daughter Margaret Schneider. >> Wit: Leonard Sommers, John Myer, Jacob Knorr. >> >> SCHNEIDER, MARGARET. Germantown, City of Phila. >> November 5, 1806. November 17, 1806. 2.26. >> Legacy to Germantown German Presbyterian burying ground. All >> property to >> be sold, interest thereof to her niece Mary Schneider. After her >> death >> the principal to Jacob and Enoch Schneider, my nephews, and Margaret >> Bass >> and Margaret Beck, my relations. >> Wit: John H. Lower, William Dedier, John Conrad. >> >> SCHNEIDER, PETER. County of Philadelphia. Dr. of Physick. >> October 30, 1817. June 16, 1823. 8.33. >> Exrx. wife: Mary Ann Schneider to whom I leave all estate. >> Wit: Robert Whitehead, Charles Rubicom. >> >> HARTMAN, ADAM. Germantown, Phila. Co. Starch maker. >> August 24, 1775. October 2, 1775. >> Wife: Mary Margaret. >> Children: John, Barbara, Margaret and Gertrude. >> Grandson: John Keen. >> Execs.: Mary Margaret Hartman and Jno. Hook. >> Wit: Jacob Schneider, Daniel Luken and John Lehman. Q.203. > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The following reference is to Christian Schneider. The "a" and the "n" got transposed. Sorry. David Myers ================= "From what Pat wrote to me, the Frederick Schneider listed below most likely is the Frederick who was a son of the Christina Schneider who died in 1784."

The historical account of Christian, Mathias and Jacob Schneider that is in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA] is beginning to look more and more plausible to me, but I still have a lot of doubts about it. I have copies of the article from the original book but it is quite lengthy and I don't want to transcribe all of it. There is a recapitulation of the article at these two URLs. http://www.pa-roots.org/data/read.php?31,103156 http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/PAMONROE/2002-04/1018816285 They are about as long as the original article, but not exact copies for some reason. Anyway, the article states that Christian settled on Conestoga Creek and attended Zeltenreich Church in New Holland, Lancaster Co., PA. The article also states, "Jacob Schneider and Matheis Schneider took up by patent about 250 acres some distance northeast of Weber-Thal, where Center (now St. John's) Reformed and Lutheran Church is erected." This church apparently is in East Earl Twp. of Lancaster Co., PA but its records (if I remember right) don't start anywhere near to the 1730's, so I don't know what church Jacob and Mathias would have attended. I could see that it might be Zeltenreich but there is a problem there as well. The LDS holdings indicate that the Zeltenreich baptisms don't start until 1746 but Christian's descendants say he had children baptized in the 1730's, supposedly in that area. These couldn't have taken place at the Trinity Lutheran (or Ev. Luth.) Church in New Holland because our library has the records for that church and Christian's children aren't listed. So this is very confusing and I hope that other folks on the list will have the information that I need to make sense of this. I should mention that the article says of the Schneiders, "[t]hey were all followers of Zwingli," whom I believe was a leader in the Reformed religion. This is consistent with the Jacob Schneider (1710-1793) who lived in Germantown since he and his wife were buried in a Reformed Church cemetery. I wonder if anyone knows where this Weber-Thal area is located. William Thomas mentioned that he knew of a Matthias Schneider who owned land in Leacock Township. Maybe that's near Weber-Thal? I also would like to know which Reformed Church records to look in to find the children of Christian Schneider. They must have been baptized somewhere since I have seen specific baptism dates, etc. I also would like to know if there were Brethren congregations in eastern Lancaster Co., PA in the 1730's. I'm thinking that the Schneiders might have settled in that area to be near a Brethren congregation but later converted to the Reformed Church. David Myers ========================= On Thu, 1 May 2008 19:38:27 -0500 myerswd@juno.com writes: > I believe that this man is the Jacob Schneider who was a brother of > Anna > Margaret (Schneider) Mack. There is a Jacob Schneider in Germantown > from > 1760 through 1794, and there appears to be only one of them in each > record, implying that there was only one living there throughout > this > period. Jacob isn't listed in the 1734 land records and there are > two > explanations for this. One, he didn't own any land at that time, > which > is consistent with him being listed as a laborer in 1794. However, > if he > didn't have any property, what did he need a will for? Two, he may > have > moved to Germantown sometime before 1760 after living elsewhere for > the > previous twenty to thirty years. This is consistent with a > historical > account in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA]. > > I wasn't able to find a cemetery record for Jacob so that may be an > indication that he didn't have a headstone originally or that the > one he > did have weathered away to illegibility. I did find a cemetery > record > for his daughter, Margaret, who was buried at the Market Square > Presbyterian Church. She was born about 1735-1736, which is > consistent > with Jacob being born in the early 1700's. Margaret Snyder was a > benefactor of this church so I hope that there may be more > information > about her in the church records than what is on the headstone. I > have > ordered a film of the church records so I'll soon see. > > The following will summaries may or not apply to this family. The > first > two are for Jacob and his daughter, Margaret. The third may be for > Jacob's son, Peter, but I doubt it since his occupation doesn't seem > real > consistent with Jacob's. The last will has Jacob as a witness. > > David Myers > > ==================== > Wills: Abstracts, Philadelphia Co, PA. > > Contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by Thera, Jack Bowman, and > Judy. > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/pafiles.htm > > > SCHNEIDER, JACOB. Germantown. Co. of Phila. Labourer. > November 2, 1793. January 2, 1794. X.4. > Children: Peter, Margaret, Elizabeth Bass. > Exec: William Holbe, Daughter Margaret Schneider. > Wit: Leonard Sommers, John Myer, Jacob Knorr. > > SCHNEIDER, MARGARET. Germantown, City of Phila. > November 5, 1806. November 17, 1806. 2.26. > Legacy to Germantown German Presbyterian burying ground. All > property to > be sold, interest thereof to her niece Mary Schneider. After her > death > the principal to Jacob and Enoch Schneider, my nephews, and Margaret > Bass > and Margaret Beck, my relations. > Wit: John H. Lower, William Dedier, John Conrad. > > SCHNEIDER, PETER. County of Philadelphia. Dr. of Physick. > October 30, 1817. June 16, 1823. 8.33. > Exrx. wife: Mary Ann Schneider to whom I leave all estate. > Wit: Robert Whitehead, Charles Rubicom. > > HARTMAN, ADAM. Germantown, Phila. Co. Starch maker. > August 24, 1775. October 2, 1775. > Wife: Mary Margaret. > Children: John, Barbara, Margaret and Gertrude. Grandson: John Keen. > Execs.: Mary Margaret Hartman and Jno. Hook. > Wit: Jacob Schneider, Daniel Luken and John Lehman. Q.203.

I got the film with the records for the Market Square Presbyterian Church, Germantown, PA and I have significantly more information about the Jacob Schneider who died in 1793; however, I didn't get what I was looking for, which was personal information such as birth places, etc. The consistory records are included on the film and they did mention Margaret's bequest to the church but there wasn't any personal information about her in that record. The burial records are more confusing than what I would have liked but the two people below appear to be Margaret's parents. What I don't understand is why Jacob would be listed as John in this burial record. Maybe his full name was Johann Jacob Schneider (wouldn't be very surprising) and it didn't get written down correctly in the church records. Surely it must be the same guy as the Jacob Schneider whose will was probated on 2 Jan 1794. And this Anna Barbara must be Margaret's mother since she was born in 1710, just as Johann Jacob Schneider was. This Jacob Schneider would have been about 19 when the Allen sailed in 1729 so I am about 90% certain that the Jacob Schneider (1710-1793) who lived in Germantown is the brother of Anna Margaret (Schneider) Mack. The weird part is why Margaret would have been baptized in her mid-60's since the family must have belonged to the Reformed Church in 1760, when Anna Barbara was buried. Margaret was about 24 at that time and surely would have belonged to the same religion as her parents. So why was she baptized again in 1804? Doesn't make sense. Also, were the parents in the Reformed Church for their entire adult lives or did they convert at some time, possibly from the Brethren religion? In order to solve these problems, I think I will need to figure out where Jacob Schneider lived in the 1729-1760 time period, which could be very difficult given how common a name Jacob Schneider is. If you assume that they belonged to the Reformed religion before 1760, there must be some records listing them in some way or another. If I can make an intelligent guess as to where they lived, I can look in Reformed Churches in that area. It's beginning to look as if the historical account in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA] may be accurate, which I will deal with in another post since this one is getting a little long already. David Myers ----------------------- Church record of the Germantown Reformed Church, now Market Square Presbyterian Church, Germantown, 1753-1856 (FHL film #20,347): Baptisms. Margaret, b. Aug. 5, 1738, bapt. Mar. 30, 1804; parents -- Jacob and Anna Barbara Schneider; sponsors -- Adult. Burials. Anna Barbara Schneider, 50 years, 4 months old, buried May 11, 1760. John [sic?] Schneider, 83 years, 2 months, 9 days old, died December 28, 1793, buried December 30, 1793. =========================== On Thu, 1 May 2008 19:38:27 -0500 myerswd@juno.com writes: > I believe that this man is the Jacob Schneider who was a brother of > Anna > Margaret (Schneider) Mack. There is a Jacob Schneider in Germantown > from > 1760 through 1794, and there appears to be only one of them in each > record, implying that there was only one living there throughout > this > period. Jacob isn't listed in the 1734 land records and there are > two > explanations for this. One, he didn't own any land at that time, > which > is consistent with him being listed as a laborer in 1794. However, > if he > didn't have any property, what did he need a will for? Two, he may > have > moved to Germantown sometime before 1760 after living elsewhere for > the > previous twenty to thirty years. This is consistent with a > historical > account in Biographical Annals of Lancaster County [PA]. > > I wasn't able to find a cemetery record for Jacob so that may be an > indication that he didn't have a headstone originally or that the > one he > did have weathered away to illegibility. I did find a cemetery > record > for his daughter, Margaret, who was buried at the Market Square > Presbyterian Church. She was born about 1735-1736, which is > consistent > with Jacob being born in the early 1700's. Margaret Snyder was a > benefactor of this church so I hope that there may be more > information > about her in the church records than what is on the headstone. I > have > ordered a film of the church records so I'll soon see. > > The following will summaries may or not apply to this family. The > first > two are for Jacob and his daughter, Margaret. The third may be for > Jacob's son, Peter, but I doubt it since his occupation doesn't seem > real > consistent with Jacob's. The last will has Jacob as a witness. > > David Myers > > ==================== > Wills: Abstracts, Philadelphia Co, PA. > > Contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by Thera, Jack Bowman, and > Judy. > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/pafiles.htm > > > SCHNEIDER, JACOB. Germantown. Co. of Phila. Labourer. > November 2, 1793. January 2, 1794. X.4. > Children: Peter, Margaret, Elizabeth Bass. > Exec: William Holbe, Daughter Margaret Schneider. > Wit: Leonard Sommers, John Myer, Jacob Knorr. > > SCHNEIDER, MARGARET. Germantown, City of Phila. > November 5, 1806. November 17, 1806. 2.26. > Legacy to Germantown German Presbyterian burying ground. All > property to > be sold, interest thereof to her niece Mary Schneider. After her > death > the principal to Jacob and Enoch Schneider, my nephews, and Margaret > Bass > and Margaret Beck, my relations. > Wit: John H. Lower, William Dedier, John Conrad. > > SCHNEIDER, PETER. County of Philadelphia. Dr. of Physick. > October 30, 1817. June 16, 1823. 8.33. > Exrx. wife: Mary Ann Schneider to whom I leave all estate. > Wit: Robert Whitehead, Charles Rubicom. > > HARTMAN, ADAM. Germantown, Phila. Co. Starch maker. > August 24, 1775. October 2, 1775. > Wife: Mary Margaret. > Children: John, Barbara, Margaret and Gertrude. > Grandson: John Keen. > Execs.: Mary Margaret Hartman and Jno. Hook. > Wit: Jacob Schneider, Daniel Luken and John Lehman. Q.203.

Everett Republican, Friday, April 10, 1936, Everett, Bedford Co., Penn. AGED MINISTER DEAD. ------ Elder Levi T. Stuckey Died At His Home In New Enterprise On Last Friday. ------ Elder Levi T. Stuckey, a minister in the Church of the Brethren at New Enterprise for more than half a century, died at his home in New Enterprise, this county, last Friday morning at 9 o'clock. Elder Stuckey contracted a severe cold and took to his bed on Monday, March 30, and later pneumonia developed which proved fatal. He was born at New Enterprise on September 11, 1858, and resided there all his life, where he united with the Church of the Brethren early in life and on March 8, 1884, the congregation called him to the ministry and in September, 1897, he was ordained to the eldership by Elders James A. Sell and Samuel J. Swigart. He was always active in the work of the church and taught a class in the Sunday School for 46 years and took an active part in the work of the community where he spent his entire life. He was united in marriage with Rachel Holsinger on October 24, 1878, who survives, with these children: Mrs. Jerre Seese, of East Greenville, Chester Stuckey, of Philadelphia, Jacob, of New Enterprise, Maurice, of Telford, and Mrs. S. Paul Naus, of Philadelphia, and eight grandchildren and three great-grandchildren. Also surviving are one brother and one sister, Uriah Stuckey, of Roaring Spring, and Mrs. Mary Mentzer, of Hollidaysburg. Funeral services were conducted at the Church of the Brethren in New Enterprise Monday afternoon at 2 o'clock in charge of the pastor, Rev. Wilfred Stauffer. Interment was made in the New Enterprise cemetery. Wayne Webb P.S. You're welcome Gale.

Diane, thank you! Do you have anything on Abraham? Was he by chance born in MD? I feel strongly at this point that there IS a connection. I know that my Keedys were in KY in 1798 before the formation of Lewis County. I have land records that fix this date. In my research one of the things that has concerned me is that the names William, Abraham [sic]Abram, Daniel and David along with Joseph and Lewis [sic]Ludwig are important enough for my great-great grandfather to have given them to his sons. I think they may have been his brothers' names. In his own generation I have found a Lewis and a Joseph. I cannot find the other names. I believe those names must have been names of his brothers. I came across a deed given to David and Mary Gooden in Ded Books A & B but at the time I could not find anything in the deeds that connectd David to Ludwig so did not rquest copies. There is also a marriage record filed for them in Lewis County. Again, I did not find any parnts nams in the record so did not request a copy. As to the name, in both Maryland and PA the name was pretty consistently spelled Keedy (Keidy, Keyday) or sometimes Geeting. In Kentucky I have found Ludwig's name spelled Kiddy, Giddy, Gitting, Gidding and Giddyns. The German spellings would have been Guding with an umlaut or occasionally Gutting/Gutig with an umlaut. I am sure there were other variations yet to be unearthed. Anything you have would be helpful at this point. I appreciate it. There are a number of genealogies out there that make the assumption that Ludwig is the immigrant ancestor of these people but so far no one has found any written records that tie him to these descendants. Alice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Kerchner" <ladydimarie@verizon.net> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Gooden, Guding, Gutting, Gooding > My Abraham Gooding line came from that part of KY and his > Family (sons; he died) were Dunkard Brethren all the way; > Intermarried many times to Dunkards; there may be a connection. > Lierly and Hendricks married into this line. > > Diane Marie Kerchner > Education Consultant and Advocate > Healtlhy Children Project, Learning Disabilities Asso. of CA > Collaborative on Health and Environment-Learning & Developmental > Disabilities Workgroup > FASD California Task Force > Phone: 626-665-1172 > FAX: 626-332-2303 > www.youcanlearn.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Alice Hawrilenko > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 9:22 AM > To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com > Subject: [BRE] Gooden, Guding, Gutting, Gooding > > I apologize to all if this is off-topic. I am trying to rconnect with > someone who suggestd a while back that ther might be a connection between > my > > Keedy family and the Gooden name. I would like to pursue that thought if > possible. I came across the name Gooden in Lewis and Fleming Counties in > KY > and am wondering if anyone here is working on a Brethren family with that > last name. I have a particular interest in David and/or Daniel in Kentucky > after 1798 and before 1807. If anyone is researching these families can > you > please contact me? > Thanks very much > Alice-who is skinning her knees on this darned brick wall..... > > "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, > which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a > man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to > investigation." > HERBERT SPENCER > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1454 - Release Date: > 5/19/2008 > 7:44 AM > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I apologize to all if this is off-topic. I am trying to rconnect with someone who suggestd a while back that ther might be a connection between my Keedy family and the Gooden name. I would like to pursue that thought if possible. I came across the name Gooden in Lewis and Fleming Counties in KY and am wondering if anyone here is working on a Brethren family with that last name. I have a particular interest in David and/or Daniel in Kentucky after 1798 and before 1807. If anyone is researching these families can you please contact me? Thanks very much Alice-who is skinning her knees on this darned brick wall..... "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation." HERBERT SPENCER

My Abraham Gooding line came from that part of KY and his Family (sons; he died) were Dunkard Brethren all the way; Intermarried many times to Dunkards; there may be a connection. Lierly and Hendricks married into this line. Diane Marie Kerchner Education Consultant and Advocate Healtlhy Children Project, Learning Disabilities Asso. of CA Collaborative on Health and Environment-Learning & Developmental Disabilities Workgroup FASD California Task Force Phone: 626-665-1172 FAX: 626-332-2303 www.youcanlearn.org -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alice Hawrilenko Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 9:22 AM To: BRETHREN@rootsweb.com Subject: [BRE] Gooden, Guding, Gutting, Gooding I apologize to all if this is off-topic. I am trying to rconnect with someone who suggestd a while back that ther might be a connection between my Keedy family and the Gooden name. I would like to pursue that thought if possible. I came across the name Gooden in Lewis and Fleming Counties in KY and am wondering if anyone here is working on a Brethren family with that last name. I have a particular interest in David and/or Daniel in Kentucky after 1798 and before 1807. If anyone is researching these families can you please contact me? Thanks very much Alice-who is skinning her knees on this darned brick wall..... "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation." HERBERT SPENCER ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1454 - Release Date: 5/19/2008 7:44 AM