To Ron Snowden: You are absolutely correct. I hunted that cemetery up a few years back. I visited. Had relatives buried there. d.o.s. ----- Subject: [BRE] Fouts Cemetery > Several days ago Merle provided data on the Fouts family, tracking > their movement to and from Kentucky. Jacob and Mary Magdelina Fouts > were buried in the Fouts Cemetery--which I am thinking is the one in > Yount America, Cass County--now called the Center Church of the > Brethren Cemetery. This is perhaps 150 miles away--a long way in 1820. > > I am not finding any other Fouts Cemetery near there. Can anyone shed > any information on this? > > All help will be greatly appreciated. > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ephraim (my ggg grandfather) is the son of Jacob Beisel and Elizabeth Mock and grandson of Jacob Mock and Barbara Messenheimer. His great grandfather was also Jacob Mock, supposed brother of Peter Mock. I'm also descended from the Allison family of this area, and they have connections to the Peter Mock family. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of KTompk7744@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:46 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: [BRE] Mock Beisel I see that my William Mock's brother, Aaron (1841-1920), married Margaret Emma Beisel, d/o Ephraim Beisel & Maria Madge Heiner. Guess I should look to see how these Beisels fit in with that family. I understood that Christian Mock who donated land for the Mock log church was married to a Brethren woman. Happy hunting. Jan T **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Several days ago Merle provided data on the Fouts family, tracking their movement to and from Kentucky. Jacob and Mary Magdelina Fouts were buried in the Fouts Cemetery--which I am thinking is the one in Yount America, Cass County--now called the Center Church of the Brethren Cemetery. This is perhaps 150 miles away--a long way in 1820. I am not finding any other Fouts Cemetery near there. Can anyone shed any information on this? All help will be greatly appreciated.

Hi Ed, Here is a link that might help you in your search: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~payork/ When you are researching anyone from York Co., PA, you might want to consider looking in surrounding counties. (Scroll down to York County Neighbors.) It gets very confusing because York County was formed from Lancaster County in 1749 and Adams County was formed from York County in 1800. To complicate the research, Maryland must be considered which involves Baltimore, Frederick, and Carroll Counties. The variations of the name Fishel are very common in this area. The York County Heritage Trust is a wonderful source of information. Hope this helps rather than confuse you more, Beverly Utz -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Edward Schramm Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 7:39 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Fisher family in York co, PA Hello Jo Ann, I am looking for Fishel's. Most lived in York county, PA. And a few moved to Ohio. Not finding much on the family. They were members of Arnold's United Brethern Church. (EUB). Thank you so much for looking for me. There are many variations of the name it seems. Fishel, Fischel, Fissel, Fisel. Your kindness is appreciated, ED ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ed, You are welcome. I don't have a single book on York County, Pa., but would be happy to look for you if I did. Should I find I have anyone from York I will be pleased to check for Fischel at the same time. We have a wonderful genealogical library in Houston - how lucky I am. Jo Ann **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

Hello Jo Ann, I am looking for Fishel's. Most lived in York county, PA. And a few moved to Ohio. Not finding much on the family. They were members of Arnold's United Brethern Church. (EUB). Thank you so much for looking for me. There are many variations of the name it seems. Fishel, Fischel, Fissel, Fisel. Your kindness is appreciated, ED

Hi Ed, Are you looking for Fisher or Fischel? There are Fischel's in Rowan County - have a bit of info. on them - they were Moravians and are mentioned in Adelaide Fries Records of the Moravians in N. C. One of the Fischel girls, Catherine, married Jacob Danner/Tanner/Donner I will post more on the Danner/Tanner/Donner familes later today or tomorrow. Jo Ann in Houston **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

Hello, I'm new to the list. Does anyone have information on the Fishel family from York County, PA? Anything would be appreciated. Best regards, ED Schramm Marietta, PA

i think it is also my Mock/Mack/Muck line.....Is there a MOck list? Are there a ton of researchers? Would love to know more... > From: KTompk7744@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:11:15 -0400> To: brethren@rootsweb.com> CC: MOCK-GEN-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> Subject: [BRE] Anna Margaret (Schwartz) Mack> > Yes, I posted that item on the Mock genealogy list, to which I'm a > subscriber. It was an item I found in my copy of that particular issue of The > Palatine Immigrant before I took all the back issues to my local historical > society's genealogy library. I'm sure there's an archive for the Mack/Mock list, > and it has lots of good stuff in it. Probably I can find out how you reach > their archives.> > My husband's mother is a Mock who traces back to Peter Mock of Bedford > County. I suspect they were Brethren, since a Mock in the same township donated > the land for the Mock log church, but I have not found a connection to > Alexander Mack.> > Jan T> > > > > > > > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)> > ------------------------> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN> ------------------------> Support Our Sponsoring Agency> The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG)> For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com> ------------------------> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I see that my William Mock's brother, Aaron (1841-1920), married Margaret Emma Beisel, d/o Ephraim Beisel & Maria Madge Heiner. Guess I should look to see how these Beisels fit in with that family. I understood that Christian Mock who donated land for the Mock log church was married to a Brethren woman. Happy hunting. Jan T **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

A Jacob Kitzmiller had a survey for land in what is now Annville Township, Lebanon County, and near his lived Hans Adam Schneider. Then there are a Jacob & John Kitzmiller that had land surveys in Early Township, and a John Kitzmiller Jr. that had a survey in Cocalico Township. There was a Leonard Kitzmiller that was on the Frederick County, MD non-enroller's list, who owned land very near the Beaver Dam Congregation, and sold property to Samuel Garber all in the 1770's. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 8:42 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Family of George Conrad Mack,chr. 1674 (preliminary analysis) David, Great digging on the extended Mack family! Also a very good start to uncovering what I have called the "Schneider-Kitzmiller-Mack Nexus." Now the marriage between old Kitzmiller and Anna Margaret Mackin makes perfect sense since she was an "old" widow. I had presumed that she was a sister to all the other Mack women on the Ship Allen rather than their widowed mother. Thanks for this new (to me) information. Do you know whether or not the Christian Schneider (who married Susanna Mack) was the same Christian Schneider who lived in Earl Township near the Kitzmillers and their Mack wives? I think that William Thomas (of this list) may have addressed this issue in one of his posts or at least he may have some good clues about it. If you have already told the Pennsylvania story of Christian and Susanna [Mack] Schneider, would you please tell it once more. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Myers" <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 11:07 PM Subject: [BRE] Family of George Conrad Mack, chr. 1674 (preliminary analysis) > It is my theory that the family of George Conrad Mack, brother of > Alexander Mack, Sr., had a relationship with Alexander that has been > previously unknown. It appears that the family moved with Alexander, Sr. > to Surhuisterveen and that George Conrad's widow and three of their > children accompanied Alexander, Sr. on his trip to the New World aboard > the Allen in 1729. I have several postings listing the original sources > for the information that supports this theory. This post will mainly be > a summary of the information and some analysis. > > I have been able to find very few estate records for these folks, a major > disappointment in trying to research this family. The only estate > records that I've been able to find are the orphans' court records for > Johannes Kitzmiller, Jr. It may be that Anna Margaret (Schwartz) > Mack-Kitzmiller had estate records but I just haven't been able to find > them. She apparently is the Anna Marg. Kitzmueller who was a sponsor for > a baptism at Trinity Tulpehocken Church in what is now Lebanon Co., PA. > This baptism occurred in 1753 so she was alive at that time. Perhaps she > moved farther west and I just haven't found the records for that. By the > way, Johannes Kitzmiller, Jr. is buried in Trinity Tulpehocken Cemetery > but I don't know whether this is the same church. > > If anyone on the list has any additional information, different > reasoning, etc. please let me know. I think that this family is very > close to being fleshed out pretty well so I am anxious to get more data > to add to what I already have. > > David Myers > > > -------------------------------------- > Georg Conrad Mack, chr. 11 Jan 1674, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden; father > -- Hans Philip Mack, mother -- Christina. > > George Conrad Mack m. Anna Margaretha Schwartzin, 7 Jan 1698, > Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. > > Anna Margaret (Schwartz) Mack is listed as a passenger on the Allen as > Anna Margt. Mackin, and George Conrad is not listed, an indication that > she was a widow at that time. Previously, Mack researchers had > considered this passenger a daughter of Johannes Mack. This is > incorrect since, as Dwayne Wrightsman has noted, young children were not > included in the passenger list for the Allen. > > It is unknown whether George Conrad Mack died before the family left > Germany for Surhuisterveen, Holland or after. Regardless, he apparently > died young. The following marriage was performed by Rev. John Casper > Stoever. > > Margaretha Mack (Earltown) married John Kitzmueller, Sr., 27 Oct 1730. > > It's possible that this bride could be the Anna Margaret Mack christened > in 1710 but it seems more likely to me that is George Conrd's widow since > Kitzmiller researchers have the birth date of Johannes, Sr. as about > 1665, making him about 65 years old in 1730, a little old to be marrying > a 20-year-old woman. I'm sure that marriages like that did occur, it > just seems more likely that it was a marriage between an older man and an > older woman. > > > > Children of George Conrad and Anna Margaret (Schwartz) Mack: > > 1. Johan Philip Mack, chr. 7 Feb 1698, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. > (See separate post for information on a Johann Philip Mauck.) > > 2. Anna Margretha Mack, chr. 29 Jun 1700, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden, > d. 16 Apr 1701. > > 3. Anna Christina Mack, chr. 12 Feb 1702, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden, > d. 13 Feb 1702. > > 4. Maria Mack, chr. 24 Jun 1703, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. > Maria married Christoffel Kalckgloeser, 6 Dec 1728, Surhuisterveen, > Holland, probably by Alexander Mack, Sr. > Maria and Christophel travelled to America aboard the Allen in 1729. No > further information on them. > > 5. Susanna Margretha Mack, chr. 7 Jun 1705, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. > Susanna married Christian Schneider, 12 Nov 1725, Surhuisterveen, by > Alexander Mack, Sr. > Susanna and Christian travelled to America aboard the Allen in 1729. > > 6. Phillipina Christina Mack, chr. 8 Aug 1707, Schriesheim, Mannheim, > Baden. > Phillipina Christina is listed as a passenger on the Allen as Phillipina > Mackin. Previously, Mack researchers had considered her a daughter of > Johannes Mack. This is incorrect since, as Dwayne Wrightsman has noted, > young children were not included in the passenger list for the Allen. > Philippina Christina Mack (Earltown) married John Kitzmueller, Jr., 5 Jun > 1731, by Rev. John Casper Stoever, a Lutheran or Evangelical Lutheran > minister. > Philipina Christina Kitzmiller (Tulpe.) married Florian Buringer, 4 Aug > 1745, by Rev. John Casper Stoever, a Lutheran or Evangelical Lutheran > minister. > > 7. Philip Wendel Conrad Mack, chr. 10 Apr 1709, Schriesheim, Mannheim, > Baden, d. 18 Jun 1709. > > 8. Anna Marg. Mack, chr. 12 Oct 1710, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. > No further information. > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Mocks of St. Clair Twp. have no known connection to the Alexander Mack Family or the German Baptists. I live about an hour from St. Clair Twp., and I'm related to just about everyone buried in the Lovely Cemetery, which happens to be an Evangelical Church cemetery. My ancestors include the Beisel family, who are connected to the Jacob Mock family. The Beisel's held Evangelical services in their home before the church was built (across the street from the grave yard, and now United Methodist). There are a number of Mock graves in a Lutheran Cemetery in nearby Pavia. The Beisel family is the only connection I know of to the German Baptist's. This family descends from Peter Beisel, supposedly the brother of Conrad Beissel of Ephrata. They were also connected to the Cable family that also was German Baptist when they moved to Somerset County. Several Beisel brothers moved to Bedford County, while others remained in Somerset County. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of KTompk7744@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:13 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: [BRE] Peter Mock et al. My Mocks came from St Clair Twp in Bedford County PA. I don't know whether that is near Morrison's Cove or not. When I went to the Mock genealogy conference at Bedford PA some years back, we were able to visit the Lovely cemetery, the Mock log church and cemetery, some Mauk or Mauck graves out in the country, and the Peter & Elizabeth Mock family homestead. Since I was just a passenger in a strange area, I didn't really know how to get to where we went, but it was a very well arranged trip, sponsored by the folks who used to put out the Mock Family Historian. It was worth every penny I paid to get to go there. Our line connects with John Wesley Mock b Feb 28, 1859, Pleasanton, Bedford Co. PA, d June 9, 1942, Fairfield, Clay Co. Nebr. John Wesley was s/o William Mock 1836-1909, who was a soldier in the Civil War. William apparently was from Lincoln Twp in Bedford County, but moved his family west to Nebraska, with stops along the way in Illinois and Iowa. William was s/o John C Mock b 1808, d -? in Union Twp, Bedford Co. John C was s/o George P Mock b 1783 Bedford Co., and George was s/o Peter Mock 1742-1817. History of Bedford, Somerset & Fulton Counties, 1884, says this Peter Mock came from Maryland in 1768 and settled on Bobbs Creek. He found the land too wet and then moved to the hills of St Clair Twp. Some of his sons moved to Union Twp. This is not the Peter Mock who emigrated from Wurttemburg. This is the Peter Mock who supposedly married Elizabeth Semple or Sample. Nobody seems to know where that surname came from. I'm always interested in learning more about my Mocks. Jan T **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My Mocks came from St Clair Twp in Bedford County PA. I don't know whether that is near Morrison's Cove or not. When I went to the Mock genealogy conference at Bedford PA some years back, we were able to visit the Lovely cemetery, the Mock log church and cemetery, some Mauk or Mauck graves out in the country, and the Peter & Elizabeth Mock family homestead. Since I was just a passenger in a strange area, I didn't really know how to get to where we went, but it was a very well arranged trip, sponsored by the folks who used to put out the Mock Family Historian. It was worth every penny I paid to get to go there. Our line connects with John Wesley Mock b Feb 28, 1859, Pleasanton, Bedford Co. PA, d June 9, 1942, Fairfield, Clay Co. Nebr. John Wesley was s/o William Mock 1836-1909, who was a soldier in the Civil War. William apparently was from Lincoln Twp in Bedford County, but moved his family west to Nebraska, with stops along the way in Illinois and Iowa. William was s/o John C Mock b 1808, d -? in Union Twp, Bedford Co. John C was s/o George P Mock b 1783 Bedford Co., and George was s/o Peter Mock 1742-1817. History of Bedford, Somerset & Fulton Counties, 1884, says this Peter Mock came from Maryland in 1768 and settled on Bobbs Creek. He found the land too wet and then moved to the hills of St Clair Twp. Some of his sons moved to Union Twp. This is not the Peter Mock who emigrated from Wurttemburg. This is the Peter Mock who supposedly married Elizabeth Semple or Sample. Nobody seems to know where that surname came from. I'm always interested in learning more about my Mocks. Jan T **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

The family of Peter Mock was not German Baptist. The Mock associated with the Mock Church was a Christian Mock of unknown lineage, who has no known ties to Peter (although some old info turned him into the Christopher Mock who is descended from Peter). The Mock Church was built in the mid 19th Century. Christian is buried in the church cemetery, and is the only Mock with an inscribed tombstone. The Brethren lived near Morrison's Cove, which is quite some distance from the Mock Church. There is also a third Mock line descending from Jacob Mock, who also lived in that area. Some believe Jacob was a brother of Peter. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of KTompk7744@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 9:11 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Cc: MOCK-GEN-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM Subject: [BRE] Anna Margaret (Schwartz) Mack Yes, I posted that item on the Mock genealogy list, to which I'm a subscriber. It was an item I found in my copy of that particular issue of The Palatine Immigrant before I took all the back issues to my local historical society's genealogy library. I'm sure there's an archive for the Mack/Mock list, and it has lots of good stuff in it. Probably I can find out how you reach their archives. My husband's mother is a Mock who traces back to Peter Mock of Bedford County. I suspect they were Brethren, since a Mock in the same township donated the land for the Mock log church, but I have not found a connection to Alexander Mack. Jan T **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, I posted that item on the Mock genealogy list, to which I'm a subscriber. It was an item I found in my copy of that particular issue of The Palatine Immigrant before I took all the back issues to my local historical society's genealogy library. I'm sure there's an archive for the Mack/Mock list, and it has lots of good stuff in it. Probably I can find out how you reach their archives. My husband's mother is a Mock who traces back to Peter Mock of Bedford County. I suspect they were Brethren, since a Mock in the same township donated the land for the Mock log church, but I have not found a connection to Alexander Mack. Jan T **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

David, Great digging on the extended Mack family! Also a very good start to uncovering what I have called the "Schneider-Kitzmiller-Mack Nexus." Now the marriage between old Kitzmiller and Anna Margaret Mackin makes perfect sense since she was an "old" widow. I had presumed that she was a sister to all the other Mack women on the Ship Allen rather than their widowed mother. Thanks for this new (to me) information. Do you know whether or not the Christian Schneider (who married Susanna Mack) was the same Christian Schneider who lived in Earl Township near the Kitzmillers and their Mack wives? I think that William Thomas (of this list) may have addressed this issue in one of his posts or at least he may have some good clues about it. If you have already told the Pennsylvania story of Christian and Susanna [Mack] Schneider, would you please tell it once more. Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Myers" <myerswd@juno.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 11:07 PM Subject: [BRE] Family of George Conrad Mack, chr. 1674 (preliminary analysis) > It is my theory that the family of George Conrad Mack, brother of > Alexander Mack, Sr., had a relationship with Alexander that has been > previously unknown. It appears that the family moved with Alexander, Sr. > to Surhuisterveen and that George Conrad's widow and three of their > children accompanied Alexander, Sr. on his trip to the New World aboard > the Allen in 1729. I have several postings listing the original sources > for the information that supports this theory. This post will mainly be > a summary of the information and some analysis. > > I have been able to find very few estate records for these folks, a major > disappointment in trying to research this family. The only estate > records that I've been able to find are the orphans' court records for > Johannes Kitzmiller, Jr. It may be that Anna Margaret (Schwartz) > Mack-Kitzmiller had estate records but I just haven't been able to find > them. She apparently is the Anna Marg. Kitzmueller who was a sponsor for > a baptism at Trinity Tulpehocken Church in what is now Lebanon Co., PA. > This baptism occurred in 1753 so she was alive at that time. Perhaps she > moved farther west and I just haven't found the records for that. By the > way, Johannes Kitzmiller, Jr. is buried in Trinity Tulpehocken Cemetery > but I don't know whether this is the same church. > > If anyone on the list has any additional information, different > reasoning, etc. please let me know. I think that this family is very > close to being fleshed out pretty well so I am anxious to get more data > to add to what I already have. > > David Myers > > > -------------------------------------- > Georg Conrad Mack, chr. 11 Jan 1674, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden; father > -- Hans Philip Mack, mother -- Christina. > > George Conrad Mack m. Anna Margaretha Schwartzin, 7 Jan 1698, > Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. > > Anna Margaret (Schwartz) Mack is listed as a passenger on the Allen as > Anna Margt. Mackin, and George Conrad is not listed, an indication that > she was a widow at that time. Previously, Mack researchers had > considered this passenger a daughter of Johannes Mack. This is > incorrect since, as Dwayne Wrightsman has noted, young children were not > included in the passenger list for the Allen. > > It is unknown whether George Conrad Mack died before the family left > Germany for Surhuisterveen, Holland or after. Regardless, he apparently > died young. The following marriage was performed by Rev. John Casper > Stoever. > > Margaretha Mack (Earltown) married John Kitzmueller, Sr., 27 Oct 1730. > > It's possible that this bride could be the Anna Margaret Mack christened > in 1710 but it seems more likely to me that is George Conrd's widow since > Kitzmiller researchers have the birth date of Johannes, Sr. as about > 1665, making him about 65 years old in 1730, a little old to be marrying > a 20-year-old woman. I'm sure that marriages like that did occur, it > just seems more likely that it was a marriage between an older man and an > older woman. > > > > Children of George Conrad and Anna Margaret (Schwartz) Mack: > > 1. Johan Philip Mack, chr. 7 Feb 1698, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. > (See separate post for information on a Johann Philip Mauck.) > > 2. Anna Margretha Mack, chr. 29 Jun 1700, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden, > d. 16 Apr 1701. > > 3. Anna Christina Mack, chr. 12 Feb 1702, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden, > d. 13 Feb 1702. > > 4. Maria Mack, chr. 24 Jun 1703, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. > Maria married Christoffel Kalckgloeser, 6 Dec 1728, Surhuisterveen, > Holland, probably by Alexander Mack, Sr. > Maria and Christophel travelled to America aboard the Allen in 1729. No > further information on them. > > 5. Susanna Margretha Mack, chr. 7 Jun 1705, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. > Susanna married Christian Schneider, 12 Nov 1725, Surhuisterveen, by > Alexander Mack, Sr. > Susanna and Christian travelled to America aboard the Allen in 1729. > > 6. Phillipina Christina Mack, chr. 8 Aug 1707, Schriesheim, Mannheim, > Baden. > Phillipina Christina is listed as a passenger on the Allen as Phillipina > Mackin. Previously, Mack researchers had considered her a daughter of > Johannes Mack. This is incorrect since, as Dwayne Wrightsman has noted, > young children were not included in the passenger list for the Allen. > Philippina Christina Mack (Earltown) married John Kitzmueller, Jr., 5 Jun > 1731, by Rev. John Casper Stoever, a Lutheran or Evangelical Lutheran > minister. > Philipina Christina Kitzmiller (Tulpe.) married Florian Buringer, 4 Aug > 1745, by Rev. John Casper Stoever, a Lutheran or Evangelical Lutheran > minister. > > 7. Philip Wendel Conrad Mack, chr. 10 Apr 1709, Schriesheim, Mannheim, > Baden, d. 18 Jun 1709. > > 8. Anna Marg. Mack, chr. 12 Oct 1710, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. > No further information. >

It is my theory that the family of George Conrad Mack, brother of Alexander Mack, Sr., had a relationship with Alexander that has been previously unknown. It appears that the family moved with Alexander, Sr. to Surhuisterveen and that George Conrad's widow and three of their children accompanied Alexander, Sr. on his trip to the New World aboard the Allen in 1729. I have several postings listing the original sources for the information that supports this theory. This post will mainly be a summary of the information and some analysis. I have been able to find very few estate records for these folks, a major disappointment in trying to research this family. The only estate records that I've been able to find are the orphans' court records for Johannes Kitzmiller, Jr. It may be that Anna Margaret (Schwartz) Mack-Kitzmiller had estate records but I just haven't been able to find them. She apparently is the Anna Marg. Kitzmueller who was a sponsor for a baptism at Trinity Tulpehocken Church in what is now Lebanon Co., PA. This baptism occurred in 1753 so she was alive at that time. Perhaps she moved farther west and I just haven't found the records for that. By the way, Johannes Kitzmiller, Jr. is buried in Trinity Tulpehocken Cemetery but I don't know whether this is the same church. If anyone on the list has any additional information, different reasoning, etc. please let me know. I think that this family is very close to being fleshed out pretty well so I am anxious to get more data to add to what I already have. David Myers -------------------------------------- Georg Conrad Mack, chr. 11 Jan 1674, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden; father -- Hans Philip Mack, mother -- Christina. George Conrad Mack m. Anna Margaretha Schwartzin, 7 Jan 1698, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. Anna Margaret (Schwartz) Mack is listed as a passenger on the Allen as Anna Margt. Mackin, and George Conrad is not listed, an indication that she was a widow at that time. Previously, Mack researchers had considered this passenger a daughter of Johannes Mack. This is incorrect since, as Dwayne Wrightsman has noted, young children were not included in the passenger list for the Allen. It is unknown whether George Conrad Mack died before the family left Germany for Surhuisterveen, Holland or after. Regardless, he apparently died young. The following marriage was performed by Rev. John Casper Stoever. Margaretha Mack (Earltown) married John Kitzmueller, Sr., 27 Oct 1730. It's possible that this bride could be the Anna Margaret Mack christened in 1710 but it seems more likely to me that is George Conrd's widow since Kitzmiller researchers have the birth date of Johannes, Sr. as about 1665, making him about 65 years old in 1730, a little old to be marrying a 20-year-old woman. I'm sure that marriages like that did occur, it just seems more likely that it was a marriage between an older man and an older woman. Children of George Conrad and Anna Margaret (Schwartz) Mack: 1. Johan Philip Mack, chr. 7 Feb 1698, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. (See separate post for information on a Johann Philip Mauck.) 2. Anna Margretha Mack, chr. 29 Jun 1700, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden, d. 16 Apr 1701. 3. Anna Christina Mack, chr. 12 Feb 1702, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden, d. 13 Feb 1702. 4. Maria Mack, chr. 24 Jun 1703, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. Maria married Christoffel Kalckgloeser, 6 Dec 1728, Surhuisterveen, Holland, probably by Alexander Mack, Sr. Maria and Christophel travelled to America aboard the Allen in 1729. No further information on them. 5. Susanna Margretha Mack, chr. 7 Jun 1705, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. Susanna married Christian Schneider, 12 Nov 1725, Surhuisterveen, by Alexander Mack, Sr. Susanna and Christian travelled to America aboard the Allen in 1729. 6. Phillipina Christina Mack, chr. 8 Aug 1707, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. Phillipina Christina is listed as a passenger on the Allen as Phillipina Mackin. Previously, Mack researchers had considered her a daughter of Johannes Mack. This is incorrect since, as Dwayne Wrightsman has noted, young children were not included in the passenger list for the Allen. Philippina Christina Mack (Earltown) married John Kitzmueller, Jr., 5 Jun 1731, by Rev. John Casper Stoever, a Lutheran or Evangelical Lutheran minister. Philipina Christina Kitzmiller (Tulpe.) married Florian Buringer, 4 Aug 1745, by Rev. John Casper Stoever, a Lutheran or Evangelical Lutheran minister. 7. Philip Wendel Conrad Mack, chr. 10 Apr 1709, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden, d. 18 Jun 1709. 8. Anna Marg. Mack, chr. 12 Oct 1710, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. No further information. ____________________________________________________________ Find precision scales that can weigh anything. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mPT3Qb0i6zpIRddVWPQ0cP3RASCfoF6hcwG4zQINNE9nbGw/

There is a good chance that Johann Philip Mack, oldest child of George Conrad, also came to America. The following records are for a church in New Holland, a city in Earl Twp., Lancaster Co., PA. This is the same area that the two Mack women lived in when they married the two Kitzmiller men. "Trinity Lutheran Church records, Lancaster, Pennsylvania," Vol. 1, 1730-1767 (1988): Appendix, pages 424-425. Philip Mauck and wife Philippine. Son, Philip Georg, b. 22 Nov 1744, bp. 25 Nov 1744. Sponsors -- Philip Mauer and Joh. George. Philip Mauck and wife Philippine. Daughter, Anna Barbara, b. 15 Jan 1746, bp. 26 Jan 1746. Sponsors -- Phil. Mauer, Val. Kroninger and A. Bretzin. This Philip Mauck apparently had just arrived in America. There is a Johann Philippes [sic?] Mauck listed as a passenger on the ship Phoenix, which arrived in Philadelphia on 20 Oct 1744. What's troublesome is that Philip would have had very little time to form friendships with people before Philip George was born 22 Nov 1744, yet he didn't use any of the Kitzmiller people as sponsors. If you assume that he moved to that area of America to be near his mother and sister, it seems really strange that he wouldn't use them as sponsors for his children. There is a listing for estate records in Lancaster Co., PA for Philip Mauke in 1747. I haven't ordered these yet but I assume that it's the same guy who had children baptized in Trinity Lutheran Church. This would mean that he died young, at about age 49, similar to what apparently happened to George Conrad Mack. David Myers ____________________________________________________________ Click here for great computer networking solutions! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oHgNAe1BQ8noe2PIvtzfgebOKGcE2oJ4dIiKanhhjUZG6QA/

I found the following queries using Google. They appear to be message board listings but it's difficult to be sure. Sorry about the way they look but there are some formatting issues with them. The queries are at the following URL. http://mock.rootsweb.ancestry.com/mlarchives/arc0004.txt I believe that Jan Tompkins posts here from time to time so she may be able to clear this up. David Myers ================================ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 15:03:58 EDT From: Janice Bower Tompkins <KTompk7744@aol.com> Subject: MACK sighting Immigrant Ancestor registration listed in March 2000 issue of The Palatine Immigrant: "MACK, Anna Margaretha, dau of Johann Martin SCHWARTZ and Anna Margaretha, b 13 Nov 1678, Ladenburg, Baden-Wurttemberg; d unkn; m. 7 Jan 1698 Schriesheim, Baden-Wurttemberg to Georg Conrad MACK, s/o Hans Philip and Anna Christina (FILLBRUNN), b. [should be chr.] 11 Jan 1674 Schriesheim; d. unkwn. She arr: 11 Sep 1729 Allen Phila. acc by Daughter Christina. Children: Johann Philip; Anna Margaretha d.y.; Anna Christina d.y.; Maria/ Susanna Margaret; Philippina Christina m. Johannes KITZM=DCLLER..; Philip Wendel d.y.; Philip Conrad d.y.; Anna Margaretha; Anna Barbara. Rel: Reformed. H-0537." ================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 06:17:36 -0700 From: Ron Moore <rmoore@cybergate.com> Subject: MACK sighting X-cc: stevelapp@juno.com Janice Bower Tompkins Thank you, Janice, for posting the information from the Immigrant Ancestor= registration listed in March 2000 issue of The Palatine Immigrant. This George Conrad Mack, son of Hans Philip Mack, appear to be from Schriesheim,= Germany and would be probably related to Alexander Mack. If I recall correctly, this Philippina Christina Mack was on the 1729 Ship Allen along= with the Alexander Mack family, and I believe she later married Johanes Kitzmuller, Jr here in America. Previously, the origin of this Philippina Christina Mack has been a mystery. As evidence for this, I am reposting a message from the Mock Archives that was written by Steve Lapp in 1997 about this family. Steve has already put a lot of thought and searching into this and I would be interested in hearing any comments from him. His reasoning on this family would certainly seem to be supported by this later information. This could= be a clue to help unlock some of the early interrelationships in this Mack= family from Germany. I wonder if the Palatine Immigrant has a source for this information? This information also appears to be a clue as to who this Anna Margaretha Mack was who was with the family of Alexander Mack aboard the 1729 Ship Allen. She would appear to be a widow at that time. She and Christina Philippina Mack would appear to be sister-in-laws. Steve has recently moved from the Golden Gate to Deep in the Heart of Texas, near San Antone. How about it Steve? We are going to miss him out here in California. <<Ron Moore>> Listowner and Moderator MOCK-GEN-L rmoore@cybergate.com *************************** Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 01:21:09 EST From: SJLAPP Subject: Re: Fwd: ALEXANDER MACK Hello Ann - The identity of the two women surnamed MACK who married two KITZMULLER men in early Pennsylvania has long been a mystery to me. One genealogy titled "The Family Encyclopedia - Volume 2" by R.B.Kitzmuller, states that "on October 27, 1730, Johannes [Kitzmuller] married Margaretha, widow= of Alexander Mack's eldest son, John." However, this is in no way supported= by evidence - for indeed, we have many records of this same John MACK being= alive well past 1775 (documented by Ankrum in his book). R.B.Kitzmuller also states "On June 5, 1731, Johannes Jr. [Kitzmuller] married Phillippina Christina, the third of six children of Alexander Mack Sr. and his wife, Anna Margaretha Klingen. This also is NOT supported by evidence. Alex. Mack Sr. did= indeed have two daughters, but documentation provided by Ankrum and others shows they both died in Europe before the Macks immigrated to America. But it cannot be denied that two women with the above surname= Mack did marry the Kitzmuller father and son. The best evidence for this is found= in the Lutheran Records of Johann Casper Stoever. In his list of marriages= for 1730, Stoever records "Oct.27. John Kitzmueller, sr., and Margaretha Mack, Earl Town [Pennsylvania]." For 1731, he records "Jne 5. John Kitzmueller, jr., and Philippina Christian Mack, Earl Town." Don't jump to conclusions, but the following evidence adds to= the mystery. Aboard the same ship Allen that arrived in Philadelphia, 15 Sept. 1729, bearing Alexander Mack Sr. and his three sons, were at least three females= surnamed MACK. On the list of female passengers are "Anna Margaret Mack, Anna Marg Mackin, and Phillipina Mackin." Now it is very likely that Anna Margaret Mack is the wife of Johannes Mack (maiden name Sneider, according to published Mack genealogies). But= neither Anna Marg [Margaret] Mackin, nor Phillipina Mackin appear in any Mack genealogy. Both are too old to be grand-daughters of Alex. Mack Sr. I believe these two are likely the same as the Kitzmuller brides. It is possible that they are no relation what-so-ever to the Alex. MACK family; however, it is more probable that they are cousins or nieces to Alexander Mack. It must= be remembered that Alex. Mack and family were strong leaders in the new Church of the Brethren, and performed marriages and baptisms within that group. The Kitzmuller-Mack marriages were performed by a Lutheran Minister. This is all I know about Mack-Kitzmuller marriages. I hope you= find it helpful. There is a Joseph Kitzmuller b. 1817 in the extensive chart= done by the above R.B. Kitzmuller, but no spouse is given. Steve by the Golden Gate ************************** The message below is a repeat of the one recently posted by Janice Bower Tompkins. Immigrant Ancestor registration listed in March 2000 issue of The Palatine Immigrant: "MACK, Anna Margaretha, dau of Johann Martin SCHWARTZ and Anna Margaretha, b 13 Nov 1678, Ladenburg, Baden-Wurttemberg; d unkn; m. 7 Jan 1698= Schriesheim, Baden-Wurttemberg to Georg Conrad MACK, s/o Hans Philip and Anna Christina (FILLBRUNN), b.[should be chr.] 11 Jan 1674 Schriesheim; d. unkwn. She arr: 11 Sep 1729= Allen Phila. acc by Daughter Christina. Children: Johann Philip; Anna Margaretha d.y.; Anna Christina d.y.; Maria/ Susanna Margaret; Philippina Christina m. Johannes KITZM=DCLLER..; Philip Wendel d.y.; Philip Conrad= d.y.; Anna Margaretha; Anna Barbara. Rel: Reformed. H-0537." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 09:29:20 -0500 From: Steve Lapp <stevelapp@juno.com> Subject: Re: MACK sighting Dear Jan Tompkins, Thank you very much for the MACK information. Ron is correct - I have been searching for just such information for many years, as have many others. I hope Barbara Dittig uses your post, with your permission, in the next issue of MFH - perhaps front page. I also thing the "Newsletter of Brethren Genealogists" will also be interested (not sure that is correct title; they have a web page, I think). I am interested in any specific sources cited by "The Palatine Immigrant", but I don't doubt the facts as stated - they fit perfectly with what many of us have speculated. My wife Barbara and I have just moved from the big city of San Francisco, where we lived in the same house for 21 years, to her father's farm of 100 acres in Southwest TEXAS, near Hondo. We are settling in just fine - but are very busy - planting seeds, watching birds, taking walks down by the creeks. First priority, however, is finishing my income taxes for the Watkins Store we just closed in SF. I brought all my genealogy files with me, but don't have time to get into them yet. Next I have to get a job (too young to retire - only 50 ). Please, any one on the list, feel free to email us, write, or visit if you are in the area. We do not want to loose contact with the many friends we have made through Mock-Gen-L and Mock Family Historian. Yours truly, Steve and Barbara Lapp 290 County Road 454 Hondo TX 78861 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 15:26:55 EDT From: Janice Bower Tompkins <KTompk7744@aol.com> Subject: Re: MACK sighting The information concerning Anna Margaretha Schwartz Mack was submitted to Th= e Palatine Immigrant by member H-0537, who also submitted information concerning "Johannes KITZM=DCLLER, s/o Johannes and Christina KR=C4H KITZMULLER, b 1691= Leimen, Baden Wurrt., d 26 Feb 1745 Lancaster Co. PA, m. 5 June 1731 Lancaster Co. Philipina Christina MACK, d/o Georg Conrad and Anna Margaretha= SCHWARTZ MACK, b 11 Aug 1707 Schriesheim, Baden-Wurtt.; arr 23 Aug 1728 Mort=enhouse Phila [listed as Johannes Kets Miller]. Children: Anna Maria Elisabeth m. Johann George CHRIST; Anna Margaretha m. Johann Jacob LEHMAN; Johannes m. Margaret Elisabeth LEHMAN; Maria Magdalena; Johann Jacob m. Mari=a Catherine SCHUPP; Leonhard; Philipina Christina. Occ: Miller. Rel: Reformed" Entries are submitted through Penny Hartzell, 49 Woodbury Hill, Woodbury, CT= 06798. I'll have to loom and see if I can find a list indicating contact information for Member #0537. Jan T ____________________________________________________________ Click here for great computer networking solutions! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oHgMpXBB5D8CfegLrEMoLZGKaqOD1mGcHulIau54emff8iE/

The following information about George Conrad Mack is in a database at familysearch.org. The submitter doesn't say so but I believe that these records are from the Reformed Church at Schriesheim. Note that all the birth information has just the christening date, not the birth date; apparently the minister didn't believe in recording the birth date. Also, this information is relatively easy to come by -- if you speak German! -- since the Family History Library has the records for this church filmed and available for rent. David Myers ---------------------------- FHL International Genealogical Index, Batch #8528321: Georg Conrad Mack, chr. 11 Jan 1674, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden; father -- Hans Philip Mack, mother -- Christina. George Conrad Mack m. Anna Margaretha Schwartzin, 7 Jan 1698, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden. Children: Johan Philip Mack, chr. 7 Feb 1698, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden; father -- Georg Conrad Mack, mother -- Anna Margretha. Anna Margretha Mack, chr. 29 Jun 1700, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden, d. 16 Apr 1701; father -- Georg Conrad Mack, mother -- Anna Margretha. Anna Christina Mack, chr. 12 Feb 1702, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden, d. 13 Feb 1702; father -- Georg Cunrad Mack, mother -- Anna Margretha. Maria Mack, chr. 24 Jun 1703, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden; father -- Georg Conrad Mack, mother -- Anna Margretha. Susanna Margretha Mack, chr. 7 Jun 1705, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden; father -- Georg Conrad Mack, mother -- Margaretha. Phillipina Christina Mack, chr. 8 Aug 1707, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden; father -- Georg Conrad Mack, mother -- Anna Margretha. Philip Wendel Conrad Mack, chr. 10 Apr 1709, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden, d. 18 Jun 1709; father -- Georg Conrad Mack, mother -- Anna Marg. Anna Marg. Mack, chr. 12 Oct 1710, Schriesheim, Mannheim, Baden; father -- Georg Conrad Mack, mother -- Anna Marg. ____________________________________________________________ Click here for huge discounts on tradeshow supplies. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m7g6F2qo7F1v3rrJW7x3z1LA3Ywg4H8nn6q9PHqQxTnZ0fO/