Just working on the Montgomery County, Indiana Site this morning, and did a couple of Stump obits. (George Stump Family out of Kentucky) So If anyone is looking to trace this family some information will be shortly uploaded at http://ingenweb.org/inmontgomery/bios/s/ Scroll down for the surnames of your needs...:) Thanks Wayne, Dwight and Merle for all you folks post here, it is all very interesting and useful. Jeff Scism Wayne Webb wrote: > Morning List, > > I wish to add my two cent's worth on the topic Merle began while speaking of the Kentucky Brethren. I do not research in that region, not having original documentation from which to draw, but some observations can be made. > > There seems to be a point of contention as to who Rachel Martin was the daughter of. I believe this can be easily solved. Look on a map and locate Mifflin county, Pennsylvania. Then locate Somerset county. They are not close to each other. Now in your mind ask yourself this question. Would, in the late 1700's, a young girl have become associated with a man from a distant county? Likely not. > > Neither if logic prevails would she and her husband (Francis Stump) have been settling in Kentucky around others from another county in Pennsylvania. They would have settled among those they knew. Agreeably this is not proof either way or another, but it is all that we have without actual documentation from Kentucky or Pennsylvania. > > I wish also to point out that George Adam Martin, an interesting man by all accounts, is not an easy man to document. I have yet to discover any individual who has original documentation. A lot of people have references to those records or stories from World Connect, but no one has that documentation. I do have somewhere in this disaster area a copy of the Ephrata Christ... Biblio... but don't ask me where it is. I think I published it, or intended to do so, but do not recall if I ever did so. > > That being said I have looked in both Somerset and Bedford county to no avail. I find his nephew John, also a minister, but nothing for George Adam himself. Whether or not there is anything in Westmoreland county I cannot say but it would be interesting to know of any documentation in that county. We can place him there by records other than Cooper's writings, Redstone Meeting, but as to any official records I have heard no mention. > > I do wish to point out something to the general populace. If you want some background information on the Stump, Kimmel and Martin families, admittedly from a German Protestant (Lutheran and Reformed) church aspect I would recommend locating a copy of the Adams County 18th Century Church Records book. There are names listed in it that will be of interest to those interested in Brethren and general history of both Bedford and Somerset counties. > > In closing I will state that though Cooper leaves a lot to be disired in all of his writings we must at least use it as a starting point, presuming it has some merit in truth, and make a strident effort to document his statements. Ans there is a connection between George Adam Martin's son David, through David's wife, back to the Allen of 1729. > > Wayne Webb > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1546 - Release Date: 7/11/2008 6:47 AM > > > > -- Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG ~~ "No one more sincerely wishes the spread of information among mankind than I do, and none has greater confidence in its effect towards supporting free and good government." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to Trustees for the Lottery of East Tennessee College, 6 May 1810) Reference: The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Washington, ed., vol. 5 (521) Visit http://ibssg.org/blacksheep/ For the Intl. Blacksheep Society of Genealogists website Putnam County Indiana http://ingenweb.org/inputnam/ Montgomery County Indiana http://ingenweb.org/inmontgomery/bios/ Fountain County Indiana http://ingenweb.org/infountain/

Ok, Judy, I have taken your advise and will do so. I know this information is not readily available. It does give the names of Jacob Cripe and his wife's children. I guess I need to follow up and get their children's children recorded before my time here is finished. Thanks so much. My Best, Iris On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Judy Florian <cageycat@gmail.com> wrote: > Your message came through the list fine. How about just posting your > genealogy message, and then, you can check the archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN to see if the info > made it to the List. If it doesn't, maybe one of the List Owners can > help you troubleshoot. > > Judy > > On 7/12/08, Iris Wilde <i.bridgeofhope@gmail.com> wrote: > > Having trouble getting a message out to this site. I wanted to give an > > update on Daniel Cripe/Barbara Cripe's Son and his children and their > > birthdates. Can anyone help me? Thanks, Iris > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is the "little bit" that was recorded in my Grandfather's Bible/Jacob E. Cripe who was son of Daniel Cripe III and Barbara Cripe. Martha, Mary and Alice were my Aunts. My Dad was Ira D. Cripe, the only boy and the youngest. I hope this helps give more information on the recent Cripe activity. I know Alice had one Son by the name of Ernest. She married Dave Wray. Ernest married an Evelyn and had two daughters. In my Grandparent's pictures, he does not look 13 years older than my Grandmother. I don't know the witnesses. I don't even know how Bob Cripe fit into the family. Dewey is my half-Brother. I do not know why my half-Sister, who I believe was older, was not recorded. Dewey had two children, one boy and one girl. The boy Darren had two daughters. Debbie, his daughter has one girl. Ruth had four children and after that I do not know all the information but am working on clarifying the "recent" Cripe line. If anyone has more information to add to this, I would be VERY grateful. Thanks, Iris/Ira D. Cripe's Daughter Jacob E. Cripe and Irena A. Robison wed on Sunday June 3, 1883 at the residence of J. Montz. Witnesses were Jacob Grow and wife, Joseph Lands and wife, Bob Cripe and wife and Lizzie Frantz (or Frentz) Jacob E. Cripe born July 20, 1852, d. October 30, 1928 Irena A. Cripe born January 3, 1865 Martha E. Cripe b. July 6, 1884 Mary A. Cripe b. January 26, 1888, d. January 14, 1908. Infant son died January 14, 1908 Alice Cripe b. Nov. 2, 1889 Ira D. Cripe b. June 5, 1894 Dewey Ira Cripe b. March 17, 1926, d. September 27, 1972 Ira Cripe d. April 27, 1975

Your message came through the list fine. How about just posting your genealogy message, and then, you can check the archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN to see if the info made it to the List. If it doesn't, maybe one of the List Owners can help you troubleshoot. Judy On 7/12/08, Iris Wilde <i.bridgeofhope@gmail.com> wrote: > Having trouble getting a message out to this site. I wanted to give an > update on Daniel Cripe/Barbara Cripe's Son and his children and their > birthdates. Can anyone help me? Thanks, Iris

> Merle I have a question. Where do you get all this info on these families? I > have wanted to find out more about my Jacob Peck family but do not know > where to look I guess. They lived around the Kimmel family but I don't know > what church they attended a much else other than when born and died. Could > you tell me where to look? Del > I was doing it the hard way, checking family names on Google - then tracing them down with other informations I found all over (including Ft Wayne Library - have a daughter who lives there -and a lovely young granddaughter!) Gale Honeyman introduced me to World Connect - and there are usually a number of people who have been researching these names - tthat doesn't mean they are correct - just like I've been asking. When a person gives exact dates - it usually means that they have something nearly accurate. You can expect people to have copied other peoples files, so just finding the same data repeated doesn't mean anything. Sometimes its family names, sometimes its churches - sometimes its counties (I check county history files). Again, when I do get up to Ft Wayne - I have a list ready to see what cross referencing I can do. I do a close check on dates (you would be surprised how many people have a woman married and having a child before she is 14 or 15, sometimes even 10 yrs old - someone made a mistake, and others copied it -and didn't use their head). I've seen the Peck name - didn't pay it much attention. The Kentucky Kimmels lived in Muhlenberg Co - most of the Brethren (starting with the Rhoads family) settled on the Mud and Pond rivers. Sacramento, Bremen and Browder were places where these families lived, so the Kimmels likely lived somewhere close. The fact that Phillip Kimmel made salt, on the Green River, puts him north in Muhlenberg Co. The fact that Frederick Stump, son of the minister, Francis Stump, was murdered while fishing in the Green River, also puts them north.. I don't have a real source about townships -sometimes they are give. These early Brethren seldom build a church building. It was customary to meet in homes of the members. Sometimes certain families usually had the meeting, because they had a house big enough for the whole church. I'm checking earliest churches (especially Baptist or Disciples) -which include the name of a river or creek - because these often began as Baptist Brethren. When possible, I get early membership lists - and find some of the families included (down a couple generations). I must admit, I have built up a collection of persons and families - a lot of it from information you all have given on the Brethren List - over the past 5-6 years. And I've gone back to the List Archives. These give me leads to check, for places and families. I have not gone to many of your family web-pages - but Google did have some of them included in what I viewed. Merle

Having trouble getting a message out to this site. I wanted to give an update on Daniel Cripe/Barbara Cripe's Son and his children and their birthdates. Can anyone help me? Thanks, Iris

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Merle I have a question. Where do you get all this info on these families? I have wanted to find out more about my Jacob Peck family but do not know where to look I guess. They lived around the Kimmel family but I don't know what church they attended a much else other than when born and died. Could you tell me where to look? Del ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle C Rummel" <cliff@rtkonline.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] wives of Philip Kimmel (1756-1830) > I have been collecting from World Connect - so I cannot proof any of my > information - > > I have Phillip Kimmel (Jr) as born 23 Mar 1756 (York Co PA) and died 28 > Dec 1820 (McCracken Co KY - so my death year is wrong by 10 years > (thanks). I had that his father (Phillip Kimmel) moved to Somerset Co > PA, to the Stoney Creek Church, about 1764 (that was the year that > George Adam Martin moved there) - which would have made Phillip Jr only > 8 years old at the time. There was considerable information on the > Whiskey Rebellion, where Phillip Sr is historically recorded (1794) -and > that he ran a tavern in 1788 - all in Somerset/Bedford Co PA. There was > record that Philip Jr was baptized in the Lower Bermudian Church > (Reformed Congregational), York Co PA on the given birthdate - 23 Mar 1756. > > The information I collected indicated that Phillip Jr and family moved > to Westmoreland Co PA about 1789 (so there might be something for the > disagreement tradition - Westmoreland is not that far from Somerset), > and then about 1800 to the Green River in Kentucky, where he collected > salt as a business. > > Philip married first, Drucilla (sp) Penrod, daughter of John Penrod Jr > and Catherine Barrone. The first son, Phillip, was born about 1775 - so > marriage would have been a little before that. Drusilla/Drucilla was > born 1760 in Frederick Co MD - so it there is not much leaway before > that. I'm guessing that the first son was actually born in 1776 or 1777 > - and that the marriage was 1776, which would be possible -on the > frontier, even if not normal. Second child is Catherine, born 1779. > Yes, I have 9 children by her [Phillip -Catherine -Jane -Mariah -John > -Daniel -David -Benjamin -George W] (no children by any other > marriage). Drusilla died 1803 in Muhlenberg Co KY. (I accept that > these dates might be approximate.) The youngest son, George Washington > Kimmel married about 1815 and came to Montgomery Co OH where his wife, > Elizabeth, died. He remarried in 1822 to a Susan Smith, and the next > year, 1823, married an Elizabeth Christian in Darke Co OH. He died in > Union Co IL, where at least his brother, Daniel, was living. The other > children were in Indiana or remained in Kentucky. Son John was a > Baptist Preacher (which now always catches my attention - ), in 1810 he > was in Henderson Co KY, in 1820 in Union Co IL and in 1830 in Spencer Co > IN - at the Little Pigeon Baptist Church. > > Phillip married second, Rachel (Martin) Stump - 1 Feb 1801 (except I > think it would have been 1802, and possibly 1803). Francis Stump seems > to have died in September of 1801, his estate was brought to court in > October. As near as I can find - Rachel was born about 1765 (possibly > Mifflin Co PA - if she is the daughter of Everhard Martin) and died > about 1810 in Kentucky (possibly in McCracken Co -since Phillip's > marriage to Ann Hester is there). There are no children listed for > her. Only a few of the records that I saw, indicated that Rachel was > daughter of George Adam Martin, almost consistently they said: Everhard > Martin. I have not been able to find a daughter named Rachel for George > Adam Martin (except for this claim or tradition -that Rachel was > daughter of George Adam), and none of his children seem to have gone to > Kentucky, whereas several of Everhard Martin's children went to > Muhlenberg Co KY. > > Phillip married third, Ann Hester Lovelace, daughter of Elias Lovelace, > marriage: 7 Apr 1814 in McCracken Co KY. She died in 1830, McCracken Co. > > No, my big question is on the daughters of Rachel Martin Stump, and > Francis Stump (after all, he was the first ordained Brethren Minister to > Muhlenberg Co KY - I HAVE to include Him!) I suspect they are correctly > named - since Rachel had sisters by the same names (if daughter of > Everhard Martin) -those sisters did have the marriages attributed to > Rachel's daughters -two of the sisters did live in Muhlenberg Co KY: > [Gilbert Vaught came from Pennsylvania to Kentucky with Capt Henry > Rhoads in 1784 (wife Mary Martin - not Mary Stump), and John Vaught soon > followed him (wife Elizabeth Martin - not Elizabeth Stump). Anna > Barbara Martin married John Frampton Jr, and lived in Beaver Valley, > north of Pittsburg (not Barbara Stump and "a Frampton"). I had found > info in Muhlenberg Co KY on the Vaught/Vought families - I had found no > Framptons.] > > So my question is still - what do we know about the children of Rachel > and Francis Stump? (Yes, son Frederick was murdered - 1799 - possibly > only 12 years old.) Rachel's marriage to Francis Stump was about 1780 > (more probably after). She was born about 1765 - so that would make her > pretty young for marriage, and Frederick (eldest known child) was born > about 1787 - so there would either be missing older children, or > possibly a later marriage date. Dates of birth for the 3 daughters were > in the 1790s. The information given was that Francis was born about > 1756, Cumberland Co PA (does anyone have better data?). > > Merle C Rummel > > > Philip 1756 married Drusilla Penrod, a daughter of John Penrod, but I don't > > have a date for that. Given the number of children attributed to Drusilla, > > I would assume that the marriage occurred in Somerset Co. PA, since Philip is > > supposed to have moved to Kentucky about 1796. The rumor within the family > > is that he fell out with all the brothers after Philip 1724's death in 1796. > > Marie's record for Drusilla says she died in Kentucky about 1803 and says > > "date is approximate." We have nine children attributed to Drusilla, the > > last of them in 1793 in Pennsylvnia. > > > > Marie indicates a second marriage by Philip 1756 to Ann (maiden name not > > given) who had previously been married to a man named Lovelace, then to a Robert > > Hester, and lastly to Philip Kimmel. Schaefer's Kimmel genealogies give > > Drusilla Penrod as first wife, and "R Bear" as second, but doesn't have a YOD > > for Drusilla. > > > > Philip Kimmel's will was written December 29 1829 and filed for probate in > > McCracken County, KY, March 8, 1830. > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

I tried to send some updated information in on the Ira D. Cripe family complete with his parents info as this seems so hard to come by. I don't see it on here. I will resend if there is interest in this information. Thanks, Iris Cripe-Wilde

I will be at Conference from Saturday through Wednesday. I hope to arrive early enough on Saturday to stop in to the Geneology group's meeting that afternoon. HOping to meet some of the folks on this site. I have recently joined this web group, but I have had a long interest in the geneology of my family, which is chronicled by Merle Rummel in "Three Sons of Steffan Petry." By the way, I am looking for a copy of that out-of-print book, since Amtrak happened to 'lose' it several years ago. If you have information on a copy, you can contact me offline at ljpinkbird@bellsouth.net. L. Jeannine Petry, M.D. Wilmington, North Carolina ==================================== Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:08:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick McGarry <hawkwind275@yahoo.com> Is anyone going to be at the Annual Conference this Sunday in Richmond, Virginia?? It is the only day a local group is going. Patrick ====================================

After fooling around for the last month with my recent research on the Holler family, I am about to set it aside for awhile. Before I do, I thought I would see if any of you wanted an e-copy of the family group sheets in attachment form for reference. A lot of sourcing and what I think are some valuable notes about many people included. It has a lot of pages, but one can easily find people of interest and just read their material. The data, notes and sources include the Holler, Harshman, and to a lesser extent, some on Landis and Dellenbach family data. The Harshman material is a distillation based to a great extent on the 3 vol. Harshman books, Emmert Bittinger's "Allegheny Passage", and to a lesser extent on my own research done when in W. Maryland and West Virginia last year. The Holler material is from many sources including my own, with a recent emphasis on census data I collected. I had 3 goals for this recent Holler research: 1) to conclusively establish where Frederick Holler (b. 1771, d. 1845 in Montgomery Co. OH) was born since there seemed no sourced agreement about this. 2) to see if I could find information about Frederick as an Elder in Frederick Co. MD. 3) to learn more about Frederick and Esther's "...three sons who went west to preach" as mentioned in an 1879 Brethren Almanac article. I succeeded in all three goals - at least to a good extent - and this information is included in the notes for relevant individuals on their family group sheet. By the way - Frederick Holler was born, not in Kentucky, Maryland or Pennsylvania as is often thought, but in Wurrtemberg Germany according to the 1870 and 1880 federal census done for 2 of Frederick's grown sons. The census for those years asks where parents were born, or if they were foreign born. There is also a mention of Frederick being born in Germany in "History of the Brethren in Southern Ohio", pg 79. It is still unclear if siblings or a parent also emigrated from Germany. (see notes for Frederick Holler in the FGS) So, if anyone wants a copy, let me know off line and I will email it. I cannot guarantee all will be able to open it. winter

Merle: I have some additional information, and other info you probably know, but I'll add it for the list's benefit. I wanted to first note that I found a Jacob and David Martin in the 1776 Frederick County, Maryland non-enroller listing. This implies a pacifist orientation, but I don't know of what connection they have to George Adam Martin or Rachel. A number of early Brethren moved from Maryland to Pennsylvania. Cooper also refers to James Martin being in the militia in 1774 (son of George Adam) in Somerset County. Cooper includes Philip Kimmel as an original member of Stony Creek based on a very old membership list he had seen. Cooper lists Jacob, George and Philip Kimmel as early landholders in Somerset County. He notes that the property of George was adjacent that of George Adam Martin. The Peter Livengood Journal includes a 1796 reference to George Kimmel and a 1772 reference to Jacob Kimmel. Morgan Edwards lists Philip Kimmel as an original member of the Stony Creek Congregation. Cooper also refers to Elder C. G. Lint's list of forty members, and includes Jonathan Kimmel son of Jacob Kimmel and Maria Hoffman Kimmel. Cooper's list of Stony Creek Elders includes Philip Kimmel noting he left in 1794. I also saw that Cooper lists early members in Kentucky, where he includes a John and Adam Stum, noting in brackets this is Stump. There is a Stom family found in Somerset County, including a John Stom of George Township, Fayette County who sold Somerset County property in 1796 on the Milford and Turkeyfoot Township line, and notes neighbors Jacob and Henry Zook (Zug). A Henry Stamm has a 1792 warrant in present day Greenville Township, Somerset County. The Zug connection implies this may be Stump, but I'm not sure Stom/Stamm is really Stump, or that Stom and Stamm are the same either. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Merle C Rummel Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:44 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] wives of Philip Kimmel (1756-1830) I have been collecting from World Connect - so I cannot proof any of my information - I have Phillip Kimmel (Jr) as born 23 Mar 1756 (York Co PA) and died 28 Dec 1820 (McCracken Co KY - so my death year is wrong by 10 years (thanks). I had that his father (Phillip Kimmel) moved to Somerset Co PA, to the Stoney Creek Church, about 1764 (that was the year that George Adam Martin moved there) - which would have made Phillip Jr only 8 years old at the time. There was considerable information on the Whiskey Rebellion, where Phillip Sr is historically recorded (1794) -and that he ran a tavern in 1788 - all in Somerset/Bedford Co PA. There was record that Philip Jr was baptized in the Lower Bermudian Church (Reformed Congregational), York Co PA on the given birthdate - 23 Mar 1756. The information I collected indicated that Phillip Jr and family moved to Westmoreland Co PA about 1789 (so there might be something for the disagreement tradition - Westmoreland is not that far from Somerset), and then about 1800 to the Green River in Kentucky, where he collected salt as a business. Philip married first, Drucilla (sp) Penrod, daughter of John Penrod Jr and Catherine Barrone. The first son, Phillip, was born about 1775 - so marriage would have been a little before that. Drusilla/Drucilla was born 1760 in Frederick Co MD - so it there is not much leaway before that. I'm guessing that the first son was actually born in 1776 or 1777 - and that the marriage was 1776, which would be possible -on the frontier, even if not normal. Second child is Catherine, born 1779. Yes, I have 9 children by her [Phillip -Catherine -Jane -Mariah -John -Daniel -David -Benjamin -George W] (no children by any other marriage). Drusilla died 1803 in Muhlenberg Co KY. (I accept that these dates might be approximate.) The youngest son, George Washington Kimmel married about 1815 and came to Montgomery Co OH where his wife, Elizabeth, died. He remarried in 1822 to a Susan Smith, and the next year, 1823, married an Elizabeth Christian in Darke Co OH. He died in Union Co IL, where at least his brother, Daniel, was living. The other children were in Indiana or remained in Kentucky. Son John was a Baptist Preacher (which now always catches my attention - ), in 1810 he was in Henderson Co KY, in 1820 in Union Co IL and in 1830 in Spencer Co IN - at the Little Pigeon Baptist Church. Phillip married second, Rachel (Martin) Stump - 1 Feb 1801 (except I think it would have been 1802, and possibly 1803). Francis Stump seems to have died in September of 1801, his estate was brought to court in October. As near as I can find - Rachel was born about 1765 (possibly Mifflin Co PA - if she is the daughter of Everhard Martin) and died about 1810 in Kentucky (possibly in McCracken Co -since Phillip's marriage to Ann Hester is there). There are no children listed for her. Only a few of the records that I saw, indicated that Rachel was daughter of George Adam Martin, almost consistently they said: Everhard Martin. I have not been able to find a daughter named Rachel for George Adam Martin (except for this claim or tradition -that Rachel was daughter of George Adam), and none of his children seem to have gone to Kentucky, whereas several of Everhard Martin's children went to Muhlenberg Co KY. Phillip married third, Ann Hester Lovelace, daughter of Elias Lovelace, marriage: 7 Apr 1814 in McCracken Co KY. She died in 1830, McCracken Co. No, my big question is on the daughters of Rachel Martin Stump, and Francis Stump (after all, he was the first ordained Brethren Minister to Muhlenberg Co KY - I HAVE to include Him!) I suspect they are correctly named - since Rachel had sisters by the same names (if daughter of Everhard Martin) -those sisters did have the marriages attributed to Rachel's daughters -two of the sisters did live in Muhlenberg Co KY: [Gilbert Vaught came from Pennsylvania to Kentucky with Capt Henry Rhoads in 1784 (wife Mary Martin - not Mary Stump), and John Vaught soon followed him (wife Elizabeth Martin - not Elizabeth Stump). Anna Barbara Martin married John Frampton Jr, and lived in Beaver Valley, north of Pittsburg (not Barbara Stump and "a Frampton"). I had found info in Muhlenberg Co KY on the Vaught/Vought families - I had found no Framptons.] So my question is still - what do we know about the children of Rachel and Francis Stump? (Yes, son Frederick was murdered - 1799 - possibly only 12 years old.) Rachel's marriage to Francis Stump was about 1780 (more probably after). She was born about 1765 - so that would make her pretty young for marriage, and Frederick (eldest known child) was born about 1787 - so there would either be missing older children, or possibly a later marriage date. Dates of birth for the 3 daughters were in the 1790s. The information given was that Francis was born about 1756, Cumberland Co PA (does anyone have better data?). Merle C Rummel > Philip 1756 married Drusilla Penrod, a daughter of John Penrod, but I don't > have a date for that. Given the number of children attributed to Drusilla, > I would assume that the marriage occurred in Somerset Co. PA, since Philip is > supposed to have moved to Kentucky about 1796. The rumor within the family > is that he fell out with all the brothers after Philip 1724's death in 1796. > Marie's record for Drusilla says she died in Kentucky about 1803 and says > "date is approximate." We have nine children attributed to Drusilla, the > last of them in 1793 in Pennsylvnia. > > Marie indicates a second marriage by Philip 1756 to Ann (maiden name not > given) who had previously been married to a man named Lovelace, then to a Robert > Hester, and lastly to Philip Kimmel. Schaefer's Kimmel genealogies give > Drusilla Penrod as first wife, and "R Bear" as second, but doesn't have a YOD > for Drusilla. > > Philip Kimmel's will was written December 29 1829 and filed for probate in > McCracken County, KY, March 8, 1830. > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have been collecting from World Connect - so I cannot proof any of my information - I have Phillip Kimmel (Jr) as born 23 Mar 1756 (York Co PA) and died 28 Dec 1820 (McCracken Co KY - so my death year is wrong by 10 years (thanks). I had that his father (Phillip Kimmel) moved to Somerset Co PA, to the Stoney Creek Church, about 1764 (that was the year that George Adam Martin moved there) - which would have made Phillip Jr only 8 years old at the time. There was considerable information on the Whiskey Rebellion, where Phillip Sr is historically recorded (1794) -and that he ran a tavern in 1788 - all in Somerset/Bedford Co PA. There was record that Philip Jr was baptized in the Lower Bermudian Church (Reformed Congregational), York Co PA on the given birthdate - 23 Mar 1756. The information I collected indicated that Phillip Jr and family moved to Westmoreland Co PA about 1789 (so there might be something for the disagreement tradition - Westmoreland is not that far from Somerset), and then about 1800 to the Green River in Kentucky, where he collected salt as a business. Philip married first, Drucilla (sp) Penrod, daughter of John Penrod Jr and Catherine Barrone. The first son, Phillip, was born about 1775 - so marriage would have been a little before that. Drusilla/Drucilla was born 1760 in Frederick Co MD - so it there is not much leaway before that. I'm guessing that the first son was actually born in 1776 or 1777 - and that the marriage was 1776, which would be possible -on the frontier, even if not normal. Second child is Catherine, born 1779. Yes, I have 9 children by her [Phillip -Catherine -Jane -Mariah -John -Daniel -David -Benjamin -George W] (no children by any other marriage). Drusilla died 1803 in Muhlenberg Co KY. (I accept that these dates might be approximate.) The youngest son, George Washington Kimmel married about 1815 and came to Montgomery Co OH where his wife, Elizabeth, died. He remarried in 1822 to a Susan Smith, and the next year, 1823, married an Elizabeth Christian in Darke Co OH. He died in Union Co IL, where at least his brother, Daniel, was living. The other children were in Indiana or remained in Kentucky. Son John was a Baptist Preacher (which now always catches my attention - ), in 1810 he was in Henderson Co KY, in 1820 in Union Co IL and in 1830 in Spencer Co IN - at the Little Pigeon Baptist Church. Phillip married second, Rachel (Martin) Stump - 1 Feb 1801 (except I think it would have been 1802, and possibly 1803). Francis Stump seems to have died in September of 1801, his estate was brought to court in October. As near as I can find - Rachel was born about 1765 (possibly Mifflin Co PA - if she is the daughter of Everhard Martin) and died about 1810 in Kentucky (possibly in McCracken Co -since Phillip's marriage to Ann Hester is there). There are no children listed for her. Only a few of the records that I saw, indicated that Rachel was daughter of George Adam Martin, almost consistently they said: Everhard Martin. I have not been able to find a daughter named Rachel for George Adam Martin (except for this claim or tradition -that Rachel was daughter of George Adam), and none of his children seem to have gone to Kentucky, whereas several of Everhard Martin's children went to Muhlenberg Co KY. Phillip married third, Ann Hester Lovelace, daughter of Elias Lovelace, marriage: 7 Apr 1814 in McCracken Co KY. She died in 1830, McCracken Co. No, my big question is on the daughters of Rachel Martin Stump, and Francis Stump (after all, he was the first ordained Brethren Minister to Muhlenberg Co KY - I HAVE to include Him!) I suspect they are correctly named - since Rachel had sisters by the same names (if daughter of Everhard Martin) -those sisters did have the marriages attributed to Rachel's daughters -two of the sisters did live in Muhlenberg Co KY: [Gilbert Vaught came from Pennsylvania to Kentucky with Capt Henry Rhoads in 1784 (wife Mary Martin - not Mary Stump), and John Vaught soon followed him (wife Elizabeth Martin - not Elizabeth Stump). Anna Barbara Martin married John Frampton Jr, and lived in Beaver Valley, north of Pittsburg (not Barbara Stump and "a Frampton"). I had found info in Muhlenberg Co KY on the Vaught/Vought families - I had found no Framptons.] So my question is still - what do we know about the children of Rachel and Francis Stump? (Yes, son Frederick was murdered - 1799 - possibly only 12 years old.) Rachel's marriage to Francis Stump was about 1780 (more probably after). She was born about 1765 - so that would make her pretty young for marriage, and Frederick (eldest known child) was born about 1787 - so there would either be missing older children, or possibly a later marriage date. Dates of birth for the 3 daughters were in the 1790s. The information given was that Francis was born about 1756, Cumberland Co PA (does anyone have better data?). Merle C Rummel > Philip 1756 married Drusilla Penrod, a daughter of John Penrod, but I don't > have a date for that. Given the number of children attributed to Drusilla, > I would assume that the marriage occurred in Somerset Co. PA, since Philip is > supposed to have moved to Kentucky about 1796. The rumor within the family > is that he fell out with all the brothers after Philip 1724's death in 1796. > Marie's record for Drusilla says she died in Kentucky about 1803 and says > "date is approximate." We have nine children attributed to Drusilla, the > last of them in 1793 in Pennsylvnia. > > Marie indicates a second marriage by Philip 1756 to Ann (maiden name not > given) who had previously been married to a man named Lovelace, then to a Robert > Hester, and lastly to Philip Kimmel. Schaefer's Kimmel genealogies give > Drusilla Penrod as first wife, and "R Bear" as second, but doesn't have a YOD > for Drusilla. > > Philip Kimmel's will was written December 29 1829 and filed for probate in > McCracken County, KY, March 8, 1830. >

Is anyone going to be at the Annual Conference this Sunday in Richmond, Virginia?  It is the only day a local group is going.    Patrick

Just a note for anyone who might be interested. Here is some information on my Dad's side (Cripe). Most of this information seems most difficult to find so thought I would share. This is from the Family Bible. There has been question for a long time about how Irena spelled her name. Dewey's Son has the family Bible and I just obtained this information through his wonderful Sister. Ira Cripe was also my Father. Mary Cripe/Martha Cripe and Alice Cripe were his sisters. I don't know the name of Montz or Grow or Lands. I am thinking Bob Cripe must have been an Uncle perhaps? Found this all very interesting. This is all they recorded. My Best, Iris Cripe-Wilde Jacob E. Cripe and Irena A. Robison wed on Sunday June 3, 1883 at the residence of J. Montz. Witnesses were Jacob Grow and wife, Joseph Lands and wife, Bob Cripe and wife and Lizzie Frantz (or Frentz) Jacob E. Cripe born July 20, 1852, d. October 30, 1928 Irena A. Cripe born January 3, 1865 Martha E. Cripe b. July 6, 1884 Mary A. Cripe b. January 26, 1888, d. January 14, 1908. Infant son died January 14, 1908 Alice Cripe b. Nov. 2, 1889 Ira D. Cripe b. June 5, 1894 Dewey Ira Cripe b. March 17, 1926, d. September 27, 1972 Ira Cripe d. April 27, 1975

Merle: A couple comments related to Francis Stump. I recently was unable to find any deeds related to Francis in the Somerset County Courthouse. You do find John and George Stump in early 19th Century tax records, and John is seen on several patent survey maps. Francis is also listed on patent survey maps for property in the Brothersvalley vicinity. Francis is noted in the diary of Peter Livengood in 1783. The implication in the entry is that Francis was a young man, since it relates to paying for his boarding. The other name mentioned (John Miller) lived in Elk Lick Township. This further confirms he was living in the Brothersvalley area. Early Brothersvalley tax records include a Paul Martin who was a single freeman, but he disappears after that on the tax records. However, the 1790 census for Bedford County includes a series of Marton's, including a Benjamin, Daniel, Isaac, Jacob, John and Powel (Paul??). Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Merle C Rummel Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:15 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com; ErdmanPL@msn.com Subject: [BRE] Rachel Martin Stump Kimmel Working on my Brethren in Kentucky book - and Rachel Martin married first the Minister, Francis Stump, then, after his death, married Phillip Kimmel. According to Blough (History of Brethren in Western Pennsylvania) they lived in Somerset Co PA (certainly Brothers Valley), then moved to Fayette Co PA on the Youghiogheny River, before they moved to Muhlenberg Co KY. Francis Stump sold his land in Pennsylvania in 1799. He obtained land in Muhlenberg Co KY on Pond Creek and Mud River in 1797 and 1798. I suspect that he actually moved to Kentucky in those couple years. His only known son, Frederick Stump, was cruelly murdered in 1799 while fishing in the Green River. This murder has been associated with the infamous Harp brothers. Now - I'm finding some problems: We have associated Rachel as the daughter of Elder George Adam Martin and Mary Knepper, who moved to Brothers Valley, Somerset Co PA, in 1764, from the Bermudian or the Antietam (Franklin Co PA). But I am finding (World Connect) that most researchers have given her as the daughter of Johann Everhard Martin and Jacobine Elizabetha Wunderlich (who in turn are near the same age as George Adam, are from Wurtenberg Germany, and go to Mifflin Co PA)(George Adam Martin is from Landstuhl Germany - I don't know anything about that -could these be brothers?). Also, in Muhlenberg Co KY - I have her marrying Phillip Kimmel on Feb 1801, but Francis Stump does not die until Sep 1801. And Phillip Kimmel's first wife, a Drucilla Penrod, does not die till 1803. I'm wondering how much exact information there is on these dates? The surviving children of Rachel and Francis Stump are given as: Elizabeth (born c1790); Mary (born c1792) and Barbara (born c1794) - information says that Elizabeth married John Vought; Mary married Gilbert Vought and Barbara married a Frampton. BUT - Mary, daughter of Eberhard Martin (possible sister of Rachel) married c1778 - Gilbert F Vaught and came to Muhlenberg Co Ky with Capt Henry Rhoads about 1785. (Gilbert is a preacher at the Hazel Creek Baptist Church - the Rhoads Church - likely one of the lost Brethren Churches!) Mary's sister: Elizabeth, daughter of Eberhard Martin (possible sister of Rachel) married c1783 - John Vaught and came to Muhlenberg Co, after Gilbert was there neither of these families had sons that married the Stump daughters. I might add - John Christopher Martin, son of Eberhard Martin (possible brother of Rachel) married c1772 -Prudence Vaught, and came to Darke Co OH and - Anna Barbara, daughter of Eberhard Martin (possible sister of Rachel) married 1780 - John Frampton, to Beaver Co PA these seem too coincidental - Has anyone research information on Rachel Martin Stump Kimmel? - or is most of this the acceptance of other research? Merle C Rummel ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What little I have on this Philip Kimmel comes from Marie Boney, a descendant of that branch of the family. She says that her Philip was baptized by the Rev. Jacob Lischy, a Reformed minister of Bermudian Reformed & Lutheran Union Church March 23, 1756, and Philip Kimmel 1724 was a witness. Philip 1756 married Drusilla Penrod, a daughter of John Penrod, but I don't have a date for that. Given the number of children attributed to Drusilla, I would assume that the marriage occurred in Somerset Co. PA, since Philip is supposed to have moved to Kentucky about 1796. The rumor within the family is that he fell out with all the brothers after Philip 1724's death in 1796. Marie's record for Drusilla says she died in Kentucky about 1803 and says "date is approximate." We have nine children attributed to Drusilla, the last of them in 1793 in Pennsylvnia. Marie indicates a second marriage by Philip 1756 to Ann (maiden name not given) who had previously been married to a man named Lovelace, then to a Robert Hester, and lastly to Philip Kimmel. Schaefer's Kimmel genealogies give Drusilla Penrod as first wife, and "R Bear" as second, but doesn't have a YOD for Drusilla. Philip Kimmel's will was written December 29 1829 and filed for probate in McCracken County, KY, March 8, 1830. JT **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

checked - World Connect given: George Adam Martin - father was Johannes Georg Martin Johann Eberhard Martin - father was Conradt Martin so, they are not brothers - Merle c Rummel

Working on my Brethren in Kentucky book - and Rachel Martin married first the Minister, Francis Stump, then, after his death, married Phillip Kimmel. According to Blough (History of Brethren in Western Pennsylvania) they lived in Somerset Co PA (certainly Brothers Valley), then moved to Fayette Co PA on the Youghiogheny River, before they moved to Muhlenberg Co KY. Francis Stump sold his land in Pennsylvania in 1799. He obtained land in Muhlenberg Co KY on Pond Creek and Mud River in 1797 and 1798. I suspect that he actually moved to Kentucky in those couple years. His only known son, Frederick Stump, was cruelly murdered in 1799 while fishing in the Green River. This murder has been associated with the infamous Harp brothers. Now - I'm finding some problems: We have associated Rachel as the daughter of Elder George Adam Martin and Mary Knepper, who moved to Brothers Valley, Somerset Co PA, in 1764, from the Bermudian or the Antietam (Franklin Co PA). But I am finding (World Connect) that most researchers have given her as the daughter of Johann Everhard Martin and Jacobine Elizabetha Wunderlich (who in turn are near the same age as George Adam, are from Wurtenberg Germany, and go to Mifflin Co PA)(George Adam Martin is from Landstuhl Germany - I don't know anything about that -could these be brothers?). Also, in Muhlenberg Co KY - I have her marrying Phillip Kimmel on Feb 1801, but Francis Stump does not die until Sep 1801. And Phillip Kimmel's first wife, a Drucilla Penrod, does not die till 1803. I'm wondering how much exact information there is on these dates? The surviving children of Rachel and Francis Stump are given as: Elizabeth (born c1790); Mary (born c1792) and Barbara (born c1794) - information says that Elizabeth married John Vought; Mary married Gilbert Vought and Barbara married a Frampton. BUT - Mary, daughter of Eberhard Martin (possible sister of Rachel) married c1778 - Gilbert F Vaught and came to Muhlenberg Co Ky with Capt Henry Rhoads about 1785. (Gilbert is a preacher at the Hazel Creek Baptist Church - the Rhoads Church - likely one of the lost Brethren Churches!) Mary's sister: Elizabeth, daughter of Eberhard Martin (possible sister of Rachel) married c1783 - John Vaught and came to Muhlenberg Co, after Gilbert was there neither of these families had sons that married the Stump daughters. I might add - John Christopher Martin, son of Eberhard Martin (possible brother of Rachel) married c1772 -Prudence Vaught, and came to Darke Co OH and - Anna Barbara, daughter of Eberhard Martin (possible sister of Rachel) married 1780 - John Frampton, to Beaver Co PA these seem too coincidental - Has anyone research information on Rachel Martin Stump Kimmel? - or is most of this the acceptance of other research? Merle C Rummel

I don't really know why they are doing this project, but as a design PSE it would be our usual approach to a median project, such as all the Anaheim design projects.