Beverly: I saw John's response, but wanted to add this. Many of the early Brethren of Somerset County were originally Amish and Mennonite. The three groups lived in the same general region in the vicinity of Meyersdale and Berlin. The Meyer and Lichty families were originally Mennonite, while the Beeghley family was originally Amish. The Brethren that emigrated from Europe were very limited in number. These early Brethren were very good at evangelism, and their ranks grew quickly by converting people of various German oriented denominations to the Brethren faith (Amish, Mennonites, Reformed, Lutheran). Some of the early settlers of Somerset County were Amish who came from Berks County. One Amish historian notes that one reason they came to Somerset County was to escape the Brethren influence in Berks County. If that was true, they moved right into the heart of the Brethren Stony Creek Congregation! Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bb43@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:01 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Brethren history resources Thanks, Judy. I don't think I made myself clear in my post. My family is intertwined with many in the Somerset region of Pennsylvania, with many Meyers, Lichtys and Beeghleys in the line. When I read posts it's like one large family in the late 1700s. They moved on to Illinois, then Kansas, but also Iowa and California. Obviously information in these areas are of great interest to me. And I do have specific questions I will be posting in the future. My main interest in this post, though, is a more general interest. I am confused about the beginnings of Brethren - they are co-mingled with Anabaptists, Mennonites and Amish in many catalogs and books. I can't semm to figure whether they are splits form each other, or developed parallelly in the same region of Switzerland/Germany. Their seem to be many of the same family names in these groups. And I know some of them switched from one to another - due to geogrqaphical reasoons? Or marital situations? And later in this country there were many splits, it seems, and I can't seems to get a handle on the differences between the groups. I suppose theological differences, but perhaps also how they presented themselves to the world? I am also interested in how the Brethren practice today. I checked my state (CA) and the closest church looks to be over a hundred miles away, so I really can't even visit easily, certainly not regularly if I should be so inclined. I have a catalog from Masthof Press and there is a great selection. I don't know what to order. I did purchase and read a book entitled "Old Brethren" by Lehman. Interesting and quaint. I enjoyed it very much. And I bought Two Centuries of Brothersvalley (not sure that's the exact title) by Cooper, and I am reading that. But I don't think it addresses the general issues I am interested in. Just thought someone might have a book they're reading now, or have bought recently that they would like to recommend - a history of the church through time, not necessarily ancestors. Beverly **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Judy. I don't think I made myself clear in my post. My family is intertwined with many in the Somerset region of Pennsylvania, with many Meyers, Lichtys and Beeghleys in the line. When I read posts it's like one large family in the late 1700s. They moved on to Illinois, then Kansas, but also Iowa and California. Obviously information in these areas are of great interest to me. And I do have specific questions I will be posting in the future. My main interest in this post, though, is a more general interest. I am confused about the beginnings of Brethren - they are co-mingled with Anabaptists, Mennonites and Amish in many catalogs and books. I can't semm to figure whether they are splits form each other, or developed parallelly in the same region of Switzerland/Germany. Their seem to be many of the same family names in these groups. And I know some of them switched from one to another - due to geogrqaphical reasoons? Or marital situations? And later in this country there were many splits, it seems, and I can't seems to get a handle on the differences between the groups. I suppose theological differences, but perhaps also how they presented themselves to the world? I am also interested in how the Brethren practice today. I checked my state (CA) and the closest church looks to be over a hundred miles away, so I really can't even visit easily, certainly not regularly if I should be so inclined. I have a catalog from Masthof Press and there is a great selection. I don't know what to order. I did purchase and read a book entitled "Old Brethren" by Lehman. Interesting and quaint. I enjoyed it very much. And I bought Two Centuries of Brothersvalley (not sure that's the exact title) by Cooper, and I am reading that. But I don't think it addresses the general issues I am interested in. Just thought someone might have a book they're reading now, or have bought recently that they would like to recommend - a history of the church through time, not necessarily ancestors. Beverly **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

An easy source for materials on Brethren History is the Brethren Press, 1451 Dundee Ave., Elgin, Ill. 60120-1694. You could order an inexpensive paper back on Brethren History. Ask for "Heritage and Promise" a paperback, I think perhaps even less than $10.00, but I am not sure. Emmert Bittinger

Wayne, A geographical correction to your description of the Wolfe family in Illinois and Missouri: You claim that John Wolfe made a mistake about whether is was Illinois or Missouri where his grandpa died. Well I'm not so sure. One thing I do know is my Mississippi River geography. First off, Ste. Genevieve and Kaskaskia are basically the same place; just look at any good atlas. Both have been on both the Illinois and the Missouri sides of the Mississippi River at different points in time. The mighty Mississippi has had more than one major course. Kaskaskia Island is now politically in Illinois but it is on the Missouri side of the river. Some time ago it was on the Illinois side of the river. Ste. Genevieve County is mostly in Missouri and partly in Illinois. In fairness to John Wolfe, he was referring to an area in a time that had no real political divisions, states, county borders, organized towns, stable river courses, so I cannot fault him one whit for what he said back then. The Brethren Roots article to which you refer places events of two hundred years ago in today's political realm. Hm..... Dwayne Wrightsman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Webb" <SpiWebb@aol.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: [BRE] John H. of mention in the 1798 Annual Meeting > Morning List, > > Friend Merle has brought up, once again, a topic that intrigues me. > His > seemingly innocuous statement about the John H. of Carolina mentioned in > the > 1798 Annual Meeting is one that has long puzzled me. While I have seen it > often mentioned there is not one instance where I have seen the statement > quantified by documented references. Many accepted historical writers, > seemingly all good researchers, have gone along with the party line and > made > the statement: "This is probably Elder John Hendricks... he was > Universalist..." > > I beg to differ. The majority of our history, seldom having been > placed > into the written word during the 18th Century, is from periodicals of the > late 19th Century. A good-sized portion of it was the writings of Abraham > Cassel, but there were others who were also writing from the memories of > their forefathers and materials in their collections. > > One of these writers was Elder Isaac Price of Pennsylvania. While I > do > not have a collection of his stories and articles I do have a reply to > one. > And it most assuredly sheds new light on just who John H. may have been. > I > would give the odds better than average that John Hendricks was not the > person of comment and that in his place we should consider John Hamm. The > reason that I believe it was John Hamm is based upon two men, Elder Isaac > Price of Pennsylvania and John Wolfe of Illinois, both from different > regions of the country, stating that it was John Hamm. I will allow John > Wolfe to speak in his own words from the 19th Century. > > "...You stated, that in an early day there were three churches or > congregations organized in Kentucky and presided over by one "Ham," > afterward the apostate Ham, that he became a heretic, that he practiced a > great many things that were contrary to the usages and order of the > general > Brotherhood, and that Annual Meeting sent a committee to investigate the > matter. Ham refused to hear the committee and the consequence was, he, > with > the most of his members, were expelled. But a few remained faithful, and > in > the process of time pulled up stakes and settled in the Missouri > territory, > and among the number that moved to Missouri was the late Eld. Geo. Wolfe. > > "All the above narrative is a mistake except the churches organized in > Kentucky, and to rectify that mistake and try to give the case as often > heard them related to my father, is my object in referring to your > article. > (When I use the word father, I mean the late Eld. Geo. Wolfe, as he was my > earthly father.) In the first place the apostate Ham never lived in > Kentucky, but resided in North Carolina. You gave a correct account, as I > often heard father tell, he was not an eye witness to the transactions but > got it from those that were present. > > "But to return to the Kentucky churches. They were presided over by > three elders, namely Joseph Roland, Joseph Hostettler, and ----- Hawn. > The > Kentucky churches were organized somewhere between the years 1800 and > 1808. > In October 1808, my father moved from Logan Co., Kentucky, to what is now > Union Co., Ill. He never lived in Missouri, but there were brethren who > had > settled in Missouri about the same time father moved to Illinois. Father > joined the church in the year 1812 in Union Co., Ill., about forty miles > north of the city of Cairo. It is situated at the mouth of the Ohio > river. > He and my mother with six other brethren and their wives, were baptized at > the same time by old Elder John Henricks, of Kentucky, and among the > number > baptized at that was his brother Jacob Wolf, father of Eld. Geo. Wolf of > California. That same season, father was elected to the ministry, and the > next Spring they sent to Kentucky for Elders, and Hostettler and Rowland > came, and father was ordained to the full ministry and eldership by > Hostettler. At that time, 1813, Hostettler and Hawn were in good standing > and in full fellowship with the churches. About the year 1815, they > commenced practicing heresies in their churches, about as the apostate Ham > did. > > "In the Spring 1816, there was a committee of elders sent to > investigate > the matter. They were Samuel and John Leatherman of Virginia, father from > Illinois, and James Henricks from Missouri. The result was, Hostettler > and > Hawn were cut off. Roland's members plead so hard for him, and he making > acknowledgement, was held in fellowship, though he was relieved from part > of > his office, for the time being, but afterwards it was restored back to him > again. > > "I get this knowledge from a copy of the Minutes of that Council > meeting, which father preserved as long as he lived, but in the last few > years they have been destroyed or lost, I rather think the former, as they > burned a great many of his old papers a few years ago." > > The remaining portion of this article from an 1882 issue of Brethren at > Work goes into a brief account of the later years of Elder George Wolfe > and > mainly is a reply to statements made in the earlier article penned by > Elder > Isaac Price. > > Let us dissect portions of this article saving the Apostate Ham for the > last. We know, from other statements made by John Wolfe, that he has some > accounts of the early history of his family incorrect. It was from he > that > the statement that his grandfather George Wolfe Sr. died in Kaskaskia, > Illinois originates. From the research of Judith Wilson and Penn Ann > Wardrop (Brethren Roots Vol. 38, No. 4) we now know that Elder George > Wolfe > did not die in Illinois while on a preaching trip from Kentucky, but > instead > died in St. Genevieve, Missouri near the house of a daughter. This is one > strike against John Wolfe. > > Other statements made by John do seem to bear witness with work that > Friend Merle and others, has located over the years and which seem to > agree > with accepted Brethren history. However while the "historians" have been > willing to accept John Hendricks as the expelled John H. of the 1798 > meeting > I have not seen documentation to back this up. Not having access to the > writings of David Eller, but being aware of his documentary standards and > reliance on assumptions, I believe that an injustice may have been done to > the memory of Elder John Hendricks. > > Since we seem to have one literary account by John Wolfe in reply to > another by Elder Price we should give account to their statements. I have > not been able to discover much about John Hamm. Or for that matter just > when or where he was born or died. I was able to ascertain that he was > likely a member of the Hamm family from Rowan county, North Carolina that > is > intermarried with the Hendricks, Yontz(Yount?). John may, and that is a > big > maybe, been the son of Jacob and Maria Catherine Keim Hamm. I remember > while working on the Wolfe article that it was extremely difficult to get > the correct John as there were several that were possibilities. > > The main point is that in this Brethren at Work article we have an > account, in response to another account, that differs greatly with what is > now accepted Brethren history; "John Hendricks is John H. of 1798". > Instead > we have a contemporarily written history identifying this Man of Mystery > as > having been John Hamm. And it does seem that both Eld. Price and John > Wolfe > detested this man who by 1882 would have been just a memory. > > While the Brethren Encyclopedia has informative articles on both men > both articles are written from the perspective of sitting on the fence > making no statements other than that both men were possibly John H. It is > likely that it was John Hendricks who formed the Cape Girardeau, Missouri > and Union county, Illinois churches. However I believe that Elder George > Wolfe had a hand in this. This would have been Elder George Wolfe, the > father. Though Elder Wolfe died in Missouri in 1808 from experience I > generally back up the formal date of the organization of a church by > several > years. Invariably I find an account in the published materials, > newspapers, > that supports this theory. > > Wayne Webb > Past Editor: Brethren Roots

Morning List, Friend Merle has brought up, once again, a topic that intrigues me. His seemingly innocuous statement about the John H. of Carolina mentioned in the 1798 Annual Meeting is one that has long puzzled me. While I have seen it often mentioned there is not one instance where I have seen the statement quantified by documented references. Many accepted historical writers, seemingly all good researchers, have gone along with the party line and made the statement: "This is probably Elder John Hendricks... he was Universalist..." I beg to differ. The majority of our history, seldom having been placed into the written word during the 18th Century, is from periodicals of the late 19th Century. A good-sized portion of it was the writings of Abraham Cassel, but there were others who were also writing from the memories of their forefathers and materials in their collections. One of these writers was Elder Isaac Price of Pennsylvania. While I do not have a collection of his stories and articles I do have a reply to one. And it most assuredly sheds new light on just who John H. may have been. I would give the odds better than average that John Hendricks was not the person of comment and that in his place we should consider John Hamm. The reason that I believe it was John Hamm is based upon two men, Elder Isaac Price of Pennsylvania and John Wolfe of Illinois, both from different regions of the country, stating that it was John Hamm. I will allow John Wolfe to speak in his own words from the 19th Century. "...You stated, that in an early day there were three churches or congregations organized in Kentucky and presided over by one "Ham," afterward the apostate Ham, that he became a heretic, that he practiced a great many things that were contrary to the usages and order of the general Brotherhood, and that Annual Meeting sent a committee to investigate the matter. Ham refused to hear the committee and the consequence was, he, with the most of his members, were expelled. But a few remained faithful, and in the process of time pulled up stakes and settled in the Missouri territory, and among the number that moved to Missouri was the late Eld. Geo. Wolfe. "All the above narrative is a mistake except the churches organized in Kentucky, and to rectify that mistake and try to give the case as often heard them related to my father, is my object in referring to your article. (When I use the word father, I mean the late Eld. Geo. Wolfe, as he was my earthly father.) In the first place the apostate Ham never lived in Kentucky, but resided in North Carolina. You gave a correct account, as I often heard father tell, he was not an eye witness to the transactions but got it from those that were present. "But to return to the Kentucky churches. They were presided over by three elders, namely Joseph Roland, Joseph Hostettler, and ----- Hawn. The Kentucky churches were organized somewhere between the years 1800 and 1808. In October 1808, my father moved from Logan Co., Kentucky, to what is now Union Co., Ill. He never lived in Missouri, but there were brethren who had settled in Missouri about the same time father moved to Illinois. Father joined the church in the year 1812 in Union Co., Ill., about forty miles north of the city of Cairo. It is situated at the mouth of the Ohio river. He and my mother with six other brethren and their wives, were baptized at the same time by old Elder John Henricks, of Kentucky, and among the number baptized at that was his brother Jacob Wolf, father of Eld. Geo. Wolf of California. That same season, father was elected to the ministry, and the next Spring they sent to Kentucky for Elders, and Hostettler and Rowland came, and father was ordained to the full ministry and eldership by Hostettler. At that time, 1813, Hostettler and Hawn were in good standing and in full fellowship with the churches. About the year 1815, they commenced practicing heresies in their churches, about as the apostate Ham did. "In the Spring 1816, there was a committee of elders sent to investigate the matter. They were Samuel and John Leatherman of Virginia, father from Illinois, and James Henricks from Missouri. The result was, Hostettler and Hawn were cut off. Roland's members plead so hard for him, and he making acknowledgement, was held in fellowship, though he was relieved from part of his office, for the time being, but afterwards it was restored back to him again. "I get this knowledge from a copy of the Minutes of that Council meeting, which father preserved as long as he lived, but in the last few years they have been destroyed or lost, I rather think the former, as they burned a great many of his old papers a few years ago." The remaining portion of this article from an 1882 issue of Brethren at Work goes into a brief account of the later years of Elder George Wolfe and mainly is a reply to statements made in the earlier article penned by Elder Isaac Price. Let us dissect portions of this article saving the Apostate Ham for the last. We know, from other statements made by John Wolfe, that he has some accounts of the early history of his family incorrect. It was from he that the statement that his grandfather George Wolfe Sr. died in Kaskaskia, Illinois originates. From the research of Judith Wilson and Penn Ann Wardrop (Brethren Roots Vol. 38, No. 4) we now know that Elder George Wolfe did not die in Illinois while on a preaching trip from Kentucky, but instead died in St. Genevieve, Missouri near the house of a daughter. This is one strike against John Wolfe. Other statements made by John do seem to bear witness with work that Friend Merle and others, has located over the years and which seem to agree with accepted Brethren history. However while the "historians" have been willing to accept John Hendricks as the expelled John H. of the 1798 meeting I have not seen documentation to back this up. Not having access to the writings of David Eller, but being aware of his documentary standards and reliance on assumptions, I believe that an injustice may have been done to the memory of Elder John Hendricks. Since we seem to have one literary account by John Wolfe in reply to another by Elder Price we should give account to their statements. I have not been able to discover much about John Hamm. Or for that matter just when or where he was born or died. I was able to ascertain that he was likely a member of the Hamm family from Rowan county, North Carolina that is intermarried with the Hendricks, Yontz(Yount?). John may, and that is a big maybe, been the son of Jacob and Maria Catherine Keim Hamm. I remember while working on the Wolfe article that it was extremely difficult to get the correct John as there were several that were possibilities. The main point is that in this Brethren at Work article we have an account, in response to another account, that differs greatly with what is now accepted Brethren history; "John Hendricks is John H. of 1798". Instead we have a contemporarily written history identifying this Man of Mystery as having been John Hamm. And it does seem that both Eld. Price and John Wolfe detested this man who by 1882 would have been just a memory. While the Brethren Encyclopedia has informative articles on both men both articles are written from the perspective of sitting on the fence making no statements other than that both men were possibly John H. It is likely that it was John Hendricks who formed the Cape Girardeau, Missouri and Union county, Illinois churches. However I believe that Elder George Wolfe had a hand in this. This would have been Elder George Wolfe, the father. Though Elder Wolfe died in Missouri in 1808 from experience I generally back up the formal date of the organization of a church by several years. Invariably I find an account in the published materials, newspapers, that supports this theory. Wayne Webb Past Editor: Brethren Roots ----- Original Message ----- > > Elder John Hendricks is probably the "J(ohn) H" who was banned by Annual > Meeting, over the Universalist issure -in 1798. He immediately moved to > the Drakes Creek Church. He was ordained elder by Elder Gaspar Roland. > He and his family was planning a move to the Whitewater, Cape Girardeau, > Missouri - in 1814, but he died in April, before the move. I do not > have much information on his children.

Thank you, Wayne, for this. I must admit, this possibility is much more in keeping with our family's values. Even well into the late 1800s in Texas where there was no Brethren To speak of (Valley View, north of Dallas), a descendent of Geo. Wolfe's sister, Catherine Limbaugh, stated he was Dunkard Brethren. The sole One in his county, I might add. His name was A.O. Dayton. Diane Marie Kerchner Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------

I have the following children listed for Elder David Martin - with little more information - Catherine (m. Block), Hester (m. Colley), David, Deborah, Ruth, George, Solomon Samuel Merle C Rummel > Durnbaugh also lists a David Martin Jr. in his index for the page he > describes Rev. David Martin. >

Many people on this List are knowledgeable about different churches across the country. Some of us are unofficial historians about particular locations. How about you tell us the name(s) you are searching, the city, county, and state, and maybe someone can summarize that church's history and major persons. If you need background info on German Baptists, just ask your questions. Judy On 7/16/08, Bb43@aol.com <Bb43@aol.com> wrote: > I am rather new to this branch of my personal history, and am finding myself > confused and a llittle overwhelmed by the history of the Brethren Church. I > need context to put my family in. Most of the referenced and recommended books > seem to be out of print and unavailable to the general reader. > > Are there any recommendations of books in print now - probably published or > reissued within the last ten years - that would give me a good overview. (Or > soon to be published, if you are a writer or have an inside scoop.) > > Beverly >

Recall my comment from the other day of a David Martin and Jacob Martin on the 1776 non-enrollers listing for Frederick County, MD. Numerous Brethren are on the list with them including a Nicholas Leatherman. Durnbaugh includes Nicholas Leatherman as a signer of a document from the 1763 Annual Meeting along with Daniel Leatherman and Nicholas Martin (p. 266). Morgan Edwards includes Nicholas Martin as a Connecocheague, MD minister and Daniel Leatherman as a Monocacy, MD minister, circa 1770. Morgan also notes that Daniel Martin of S.C. was ordained by Daniel Leatherman and Nicholas Martin. Is it possible that Daniel Martin came to MD at some point, and it seems likely to me that Martin may have gone to MD to be ordained as opposed to Daniel Leatherman and Nicholas Martin going to SC. Durnbaugh also lists a David Martin Jr. in his index for the page he describes Rev. David Martin. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Merle C Rummel Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 8:46 AM To: brethren@rootsweb.com; wildflours@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Martin Thanks - I was not aware of the English complaint - I do think that David Martin is the son of George Adam Martin - - I would have real problems with David being of English origin my reasoning hinges a lot on the fact that he became such a leading Brethren Elder - seemingly early - at least by the time of the Revolution - - - 1754 to South Carolina (David - 17 years old) - 1759, minister of earliest church there (David - 22 years old) - - - 1770 ordained (by Nicholas Martin/Daniel Leatherman) - likely he knew and spoke German - even though much of the early church in the south is noted as having used considerable English - - most of the Brethren migration to the Carolinas (7th Day and 1st Day) was from Pennsylvania - German speaking, although capable in English - remember - this is only 40 some years after Alexander Mack brought the second shipload of Brethren to this Continent - - - - (well, migration to SC was c1750 - 20 years after Alexander Mack's shipload) - - so combine a move to the distant south - with a top leading position among those distant Brethren -almost requires someone of the early Brethren - - - I suspect that George Adam was involved in that earliest church in Newberry Co SC - and David being minister! - - and David's faith was that of the moderate Pietists - where George Adam was a major leader - - - David seems not to be a 7th Day Baptist, although he was seemingly much involved with the local Sabbatarians - David shows the same kind of capabilities as George Adam - broad acceptance/leadership among a number of church groups - then connecting the local names of George Jr/James/John/Elijah - presumed to also be sons of George Adam My problem still comes at the age of Mary (Knepper) Martin (b. c1725), and the birth of David (b. 1737) - Mary was about 12 years old!!! - and her parents were married c22 Feb 1723 - so her birth is approximately correct! could it be possible that George Adam Martin (b. 1712) had an earlier wife? per Floyd Mallott, Studies in Brethren History (includes - Ephrata Chronicle - George Adam Martin autobiography) George Adam Martin -was first minister at the Big Conewago Church - - - interest in religion - 1733 (21 years old) - - at Great Swamp Meeting -with Conrad Biessel - 1737 - - united as member at Conewago - 1735/- - ordained - 1739/- - elder - 1741 - - sent to Moravian Synod -as Brethren representative (by Elder Martin Urner) - 1742 (effort at union of German Churches - Count Zinzendorf -leader of Moravians) - - c1760 - Bermudian Church - York Co PA - - c1762 - Antietam Valley (vicinity of Snow Hill Cloisters) - - to Brothers Valley - 1763-4 nothing on date of deaconship - normally required before ordination customary - married before deaconship/certainly before ordination (I'm not sure of these customs back in those earliest days). David's birth date is OK - for records of George Adam Martin - I have a possible dozen children for George Adam (no good proof - few dates) Merle C Rummel >> - and as far as I know - we do not really have proof that David is a son >> of George Adam. >> > > I've given talks where I've mentioned David Martin, and when I do I say: > "the evidence points more toward David Martin being of English descent who > became associated with the Brethren; but the story that he was the son of > George Adam Martin is a much more compelling and interesting story - and since > the difference between the proof of the evidence is slight, I personally go > with the much more compelling story " (and then I go on to explain who GAM > was....) > > > the slight proof of his being English, is the complaint by some Brethren in > the circa 1770s (sorry for not including the actual complaint) of the > English taking over the Brethren in the western South Carolina; and a > non-documented listing of David Martin's parents (who wasn't GAM) in an early 20th century > Newberry book. > steven rowe > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I wish I knew your dates - maybe this will be some help - it is not really a direct answer - I have a Sarah Mast, who married a David Roland Fouts (c1800-1892), and lived in Miami Co IN. David was the son of Andrew Fouts (1771-c1842) and Barbara Roland (1781-1847), his parents moved from the Uwharrie Church area of North Carolina (Rowan Co that became Randolph Co) to Montgomery Co OH Andrew was son of David Theobald Fouts Jr (1745-1821) and Elizabeth Hoover (c1745-c1825) who moved from Rowan Co NC to Montgomery Co OH in 1809 David Theobald Fouts Sr (c1722-c1793) came from the Palatinate in 1738. His wife was Catrina Spengal (c1727-c1792) she died at Uwharrie, but her husband moved west into Ashe Co - where several of his children are listed as living. I have no parents for them. Barbara Roland was the daughter of Abraham Roland (1752-1815) and Maria Catherine Pepple (b 1750 - no other information), Andrew Roland (1752-1815) was son of Elder Gasper Roland (1721-1809) and Mary Meyer Hunsaker (b 1720 Switzerland) Elizabeth Hoover was the daughter of Andreas Huber Sr (1722-1794) and Margaretha Pfautz (c1723-c1797) (Quaker line)- they moved to the Uwharrie Andreas Huber (Andrew Hoover) was born in Ellerstadt Ger, son of Gregor Jonas Huber and Anna Maria Kruetzer Margaretha Pfautz (Fouts) was daughter of Jacob Fouts (1700-1762) and Mary Magdelina Kuntz (died 1763) Elizabeth Hoover's sister: Susannah (1763-1813) married John Mast Jr - lived Miami Co OH Elizabeth's brother: Daniel (1756-1819) married Hannah Mast -lived Montgomery Co OH Elizabeth's brother: David (1766-1841) first married a Mary Mast -lived Miami Co OH (I suspect these three Mast's were siblings -would likely have been in Rowan Co NC - Sarah would have probably been a next generation) (I have no connection between these two Fouts lines - nor do they connect yet to two other Brethren Pfouts lines) I do not verify these informations - I have collected them from a variety of sources. The Hoover family is important here at Richmond IN - a Quaker City/a leading Quaker family Merle C Rummel > > I have a Gaspar Roland--dates and locations unknown--who married Sarah > Mast. They had one child named Barbara.

Try Masthof Press. They reprint old genealogy books, and their catalog has a Brethren section. That is where I got many of my genealogy books. (www.masthof.com) -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bb43@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:09 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: [BRE] Brethren history resources I am rather new to this branch of my personal history, and am finding myself confused and a llittle overwhelmed by the history of the Brethren Church. I need context to put my family in. Most of the referenced and recommended books seem to be out of print and unavailable to the general reader. Are there any recommendations of books in print now - probably published or reissued within the last ten years - that would give me a good overview. (Or soon to be published, if you are a writer or have an inside scoop.) Beverly **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Merle, as a descendent of John (H), I am always interested in proofs, So please share with me where you found that they were Mennonite. Thanks so much. Diane Marie Kerchner -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Merle C Rummel Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:52 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRE] Donner, Hendricks and Roland Families Elder Gaspar Roland came to America, to Philadelphia area, in 1741 and in 1757 moved to York Co PA. In 1762 he moved to Frederick Co MD, the Pipe Creek Church, then in 1771 moved to the Forks of the Yadkin, Rowan Co NC. Tradition says he organized the Dutchman's Creek Congregation there, and in 1775 was ordained to the Eldership (by Elder David Martin). He was in the area that in 1783 beame Davies Co NC, and in 1796 moved across the Blue Ridge Mountains to the New River Valley, in Wilkes Co (which became Ashe Co). It is considered that he came to the Drakes Creek Church, south of Bowling Green KY, then in Warren Co, now Simpson Co. He died in 1809. There were several other Hendricks families in Rowan Co - Elder James Hendricks was from Frederick Co MD (Israel Creek church, and went first to the Uwharrie (now Randolph Co NC), then to the Crane Creek Church, Salisbury NC. His wife was Christiana Roland, sister of Gaspar Roland. I had heard that Elder James Hendricks went to the Hinkston Creek Church in Nicholas Co KY, but the data I see says he died in 1787 in Rowan Co NC. Some of their children came to the Drakes Creek Church, but so far, I do not have a good record of them. Elder John Hendricks is probably the "J(ohn) H" who was banned by Annual Meeting, over the Universalist issure -in 1798. He immediately moved to the Drakes Creek Church. He was ordained elder by Elder Gaspar Roland. He and his family was planning a move to the Whitewater, Cape Girardeau, Missouri - in 1814, but he died in April, before the move. I do not have much information on his children. The early John Hendricks family was originally Mennonite, and the first family to cross the Susquehanna River into what became York Co. They sold land to Michael Danner. The Carolina Hendricks seem to grandchildren or gr grandchildren. My records do not include a son Jacob Roland 1771 - to anyone. Is there any connection of this Valentine Huff - to the Brethren Hoff families - including those of the Pipe Creek Church, Frederick Co MD? Merle C Rummel > Dwayne was kind enough to remind me there is more evidence that Mary Donner > Dick was indeed the daughter of George Donner, Sr. How I could have > forgotten is beyond me. I have even been to the graves of Mary and John Dick as well > as most of the Donner girls! I do wish I could, at the very least, find a > marriage record for Mary & John Dick or some proof positive as to the > parentage of Mary Donner Dick. I do like proof! > As for the Roland family George Dick of Bangs, Tx. has done a lot of > research on the Dick family and he did inform me of John Dick, Sr. filing for > divorce for abandonment in Simpson County, Ky. ca. 1829. His theory is that may be > the reason some show Elizabeth Roland as the wife of John Dick, Sr. and > others show a Miss Hendrick. > It may interest you to know Jacob Roland was married to Esther Huff, > daughter of Valentine Huff, Sr. and his wife Mary Kerst Huff. Jacob was born abt > 1771 in Frederick, Md. and died in Harrison, Ky. The other daughters of > Valentine, Sr. were Elizabeth who married John Sain, Eve Rosannah who married > Charles Hunter and Mary who md. George Donner, Sr. Charles Hunter's oldest son > was Jacob Hunter, Sr. and he was the father of Mary Hunter who md. 1st. Nathan > Holloway and 2nd George Davidson - Mary & Nathan were the parents of > Susannah Holloway who married Capt. George Donner. These families are all so > tangled together it is like a giant gnarled tree! By the way there were Rolands in > Rowan, but don't recall their names at the moment. I can look them up if > you need them. > While the Donners were in Jessamine County, Ky. they lived along with the > Holloways, Hunters, Davidsons, etc. on Hickman Creek which is quite near the > Kentucky River and a bit of a distance from Jessamine Creek. I have been > trying to find out the names of the folks buried in what they call the Moravian > Cemetery in Jessamine county, but so far no success. ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Beverly, Many of the out of print books are available through an inter-library loan. Check with your local library and I will be you will be able to borrow some if not all of them. I have purchased a number of the out of print books through ABE books and Amazon. Jo Ann **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

I am rather new to this branch of my personal history, and am finding myself confused and a llittle overwhelmed by the history of the Brethren Church. I need context to put my family in. Most of the referenced and recommended books seem to be out of print and unavailable to the general reader. Are there any recommendations of books in print now - probably published or reissued within the last ten years - that would give me a good overview. (Or soon to be published, if you are a writer or have an inside scoop.) Beverly **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

Elder Gaspar Roland came to America, to Philadelphia area, in 1741 and in 1757 moved to York Co PA. In 1762 he moved to Frederick Co MD, the Pipe Creek Church, then in 1771 moved to the Forks of the Yadkin, Rowan Co NC. Tradition says he organized the Dutchman's Creek Congregation there, and in 1775 was ordained to the Eldership (by Elder David Martin). He was in the area that in 1783 beame Davies Co NC, and in 1796 moved across the Blue Ridge Mountains to the New River Valley, in Wilkes Co (which became Ashe Co). It is considered that he came to the Drakes Creek Church, south of Bowling Green KY, then in Warren Co, now Simpson Co. He died in 1809. There were several other Hendricks families in Rowan Co - Elder James Hendricks was from Frederick Co MD (Israel Creek church, and went first to the Uwharrie (now Randolph Co NC), then to the Crane Creek Church, Salisbury NC. His wife was Christiana Roland, sister of Gaspar Roland. I had heard that Elder James Hendricks went to the Hinkston Creek Church in Nicholas Co KY, but the data I see says he died in 1787 in Rowan Co NC. Some of their children came to the Drakes Creek Church, but so far, I do not have a good record of them. Elder John Hendricks is probably the "J(ohn) H" who was banned by Annual Meeting, over the Universalist issure -in 1798. He immediately moved to the Drakes Creek Church. He was ordained elder by Elder Gaspar Roland. He and his family was planning a move to the Whitewater, Cape Girardeau, Missouri - in 1814, but he died in April, before the move. I do not have much information on his children. The early John Hendricks family was originally Mennonite, and the first family to cross the Susquehanna River into what became York Co. They sold land to Michael Danner. The Carolina Hendricks seem to grandchildren or gr grandchildren. My records do not include a son Jacob Roland 1771 - to anyone. Is there any connection of this Valentine Huff - to the Brethren Hoff families - including those of the Pipe Creek Church, Frederick Co MD? Merle C Rummel > Dwayne was kind enough to remind me there is more evidence that Mary Donner > Dick was indeed the daughter of George Donner, Sr. How I could have > forgotten is beyond me. I have even been to the graves of Mary and John Dick as well > as most of the Donner girls! I do wish I could, at the very least, find a > marriage record for Mary & John Dick or some proof positive as to the > parentage of Mary Donner Dick. I do like proof! > As for the Roland family George Dick of Bangs, Tx. has done a lot of > research on the Dick family and he did inform me of John Dick, Sr. filing for > divorce for abandonment in Simpson County, Ky. ca. 1829. His theory is that may be > the reason some show Elizabeth Roland as the wife of John Dick, Sr. and > others show a Miss Hendrick. > It may interest you to know Jacob Roland was married to Esther Huff, > daughter of Valentine Huff, Sr. and his wife Mary Kerst Huff. Jacob was born abt > 1771 in Frederick, Md. and died in Harrison, Ky. The other daughters of > Valentine, Sr. were Elizabeth who married John Sain, Eve Rosannah who married > Charles Hunter and Mary who md. George Donner, Sr. Charles Hunter's oldest son > was Jacob Hunter, Sr. and he was the father of Mary Hunter who md. 1st. Nathan > Holloway and 2nd George Davidson - Mary & Nathan were the parents of > Susannah Holloway who married Capt. George Donner. These families are all so > tangled together it is like a giant gnarled tree! By the way there were Rolands in > Rowan, but don't recall their names at the moment. I can look them up if > you need them. > While the Donners were in Jessamine County, Ky. they lived along with the > Holloways, Hunters, Davidsons, etc. on Hickman Creek which is quite near the > Kentucky River and a bit of a distance from Jessamine Creek. I have been > trying to find out the names of the folks buried in what they call the Moravian > Cemetery in Jessamine county, but so far no success.

---[ Elder Gaspar Roland came to America, to Philadelphia area, in 1741 and in 1757 moved to York Co PA. In 1762 he moved to Frederick Co MD, the Pipe Creek Church, then in 1771 moved to the Forks of the Yadkin, Rowan Co NC. Tradition says he organized the Dutchman's Creek Congregation there, and in 1775 was ordained to the Eldership (by Elder David Martin). He was in the area that in 1783 beame Davies Co NC, and in 1796 moved across the Blue Ridge Mountains to the New River Valley, in Wilkes Co (which became Ashe Co). It is considered that he came to the Drakes Creek Church, south of Bowling Green KY, then in Warren Co, now Simpson Co. He died in 1809.]--- I have a Gaspar Roland--dates and locations unknown--who married Sarah Mast. They had one child named Barbara. I find in the "History of the COB of the Southern District of Ohio" the following on page 48: "...Elder Casper Rolland was perhaps the first minister to settle in Kentucky. Elder John Hendricks was the second..." I have checked dates, comparing to what Merle has posted, and believe this to be the same person. I have not found Sarah Mast, nor a wife named Sarah though. Any thoughts?

Thank you so much - wishes do come TRUE! Jo Ann **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

Jo Ann, "Dick, John & Mary Tanner, 17 Nov 1799; Peter Hendricks, bondsman; Edwin J. Osborn, wit." (Brent H. Holcomb," Marriages of Rowan County, North Carolina, 1753-1868," 1981, p. 105) Dwayne ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jschm21735@aol.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Donner/Danner Family > Dwayne was kind enough to remind me there is more evidence that Mary > Donner > Dick was indeed the daughter of George Donner, Sr. How I could have > forgotten is beyond me. I have even been to the graves of Mary and John > Dick as well > as most of the Donner girls! I do wish I could, at the very least, find > a > marriage record for Mary & John Dick or some proof positive as to the > parentage of Mary Donner Dick. I do like proof! > As for the Roland family George Dick of Bangs, Tx. has done a lot of > research on the Dick family and he did inform me of John Dick, Sr. filing > for > divorce for abandonment in Simpson County, Ky. ca. 1829. His theory is > that may be > the reason some show Elizabeth Roland as the wife of John Dick, Sr. and > others show a Miss Hendrick. > It may interest you to know Jacob Roland was married to Esther Huff, > daughter of Valentine Huff, Sr. and his wife Mary Kerst Huff. Jacob was > born abt > 1771 in Frederick, Md. and died in Harrison, Ky. The other daughters of > Valentine, Sr. were Elizabeth who married John Sain, Eve Rosannah who > married > Charles Hunter and Mary who md. George Donner, Sr. Charles Hunter's > oldest son > was Jacob Hunter, Sr. and he was the father of Mary Hunter who md. 1st. > Nathan > Holloway and 2nd George Davidson - Mary & Nathan were the parents of > Susannah Holloway who married Capt. George Donner. These families are > all so > tangled together it is like a giant gnarled tree! By the way there were > Rolands in > Rowan, but don't recall their names at the moment. I can look them up if > you need them. > While the Donners were in Jessamine County, Ky. they lived along with the > Holloways, Hunters, Davidsons, etc. on Hickman Creek which is quite near > the > Kentucky River and a bit of a distance from Jessamine Creek. I have been > trying to find out the names of the folks buried in what they call the > Moravian > Cemetery in Jessamine county, but so far no success. > The book of the history of Sangamon County, Illinois does say the Donners > were members of the Christian Church while in Springfield, but I do > believe they > were, in the early days, Brethren. They do seem to have followed the same > path as many of the Brethren. > > Jo Ann Schmidt > > > > **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live > music > scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! > (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dwayne was kind enough to remind me there is more evidence that Mary Donner Dick was indeed the daughter of George Donner, Sr. How I could have forgotten is beyond me. I have even been to the graves of Mary and John Dick as well as most of the Donner girls! I do wish I could, at the very least, find a marriage record for Mary & John Dick or some proof positive as to the parentage of Mary Donner Dick. I do like proof! As for the Roland family George Dick of Bangs, Tx. has done a lot of research on the Dick family and he did inform me of John Dick, Sr. filing for divorce for abandonment in Simpson County, Ky. ca. 1829. His theory is that may be the reason some show Elizabeth Roland as the wife of John Dick, Sr. and others show a Miss Hendrick. It may interest you to know Jacob Roland was married to Esther Huff, daughter of Valentine Huff, Sr. and his wife Mary Kerst Huff. Jacob was born abt 1771 in Frederick, Md. and died in Harrison, Ky. The other daughters of Valentine, Sr. were Elizabeth who married John Sain, Eve Rosannah who married Charles Hunter and Mary who md. George Donner, Sr. Charles Hunter's oldest son was Jacob Hunter, Sr. and he was the father of Mary Hunter who md. 1st. Nathan Holloway and 2nd George Davidson - Mary & Nathan were the parents of Susannah Holloway who married Capt. George Donner. These families are all so tangled together it is like a giant gnarled tree! By the way there were Rolands in Rowan, but don't recall their names at the moment. I can look them up if you need them. While the Donners were in Jessamine County, Ky. they lived along with the Holloways, Hunters, Davidsons, etc. on Hickman Creek which is quite near the Kentucky River and a bit of a distance from Jessamine Creek. I have been trying to find out the names of the folks buried in what they call the Moravian Cemetery in Jessamine county, but so far no success. The book of the history of Sangamon County, Illinois does say the Donners were members of the Christian Church while in Springfield, but I do believe they were, in the early days, Brethren. They do seem to have followed the same path as many of the Brethren. Jo Ann Schmidt **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

Del and Carol, regarding Jacob Peck. (Sorry if you already know this). There is a short section relating to George, Jacob, Henry, and John Adam Peck Peck Allegheny Passage pages 455, and 659. E. Bittinger ----- Original Message ----- From: "Del & Carol" <delcarol@iezpc.com> To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] wives of Philip Kimmel (1756-1830) > Merle I have a question. Where do you get all this info on these families? > I > have wanted to find out more about my Jacob Peck family but do not know > where to look I guess. They lived around the Kimmel family but I don't > know > what church they attended a much else other than when born and died. Could > you tell me where to look? Del > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Merle C Rummel" <cliff@rtkonline.com> > To: <brethren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:44 PM > Subject: Re: [BRE] wives of Philip Kimmel (1756-1830) > > >> I have been collecting from World Connect - so I cannot proof any of my >> information - >> >> I have Phillip Kimmel (Jr) as born 23 Mar 1756 (York Co PA) and died 28 >> Dec 1820 (McCracken Co KY - so my death year is wrong by 10 years >> (thanks). I had that his father (Phillip Kimmel) moved to Somerset Co >> PA, to the Stoney Creek Church, about 1764 (that was the year that >> George Adam Martin moved there) - which would have made Phillip Jr only >> 8 years old at the time. There was considerable information on the >> Whiskey Rebellion, where Phillip Sr is historically recorded (1794) -and >> that he ran a tavern in 1788 - all in Somerset/Bedford Co PA. There was >> record that Philip Jr was baptized in the Lower Bermudian Church >> (Reformed Congregational), York Co PA on the given birthdate - 23 Mar > 1756. >> >> The information I collected indicated that Phillip Jr and family moved >> to Westmoreland Co PA about 1789 (so there might be something for the >> disagreement tradition - Westmoreland is not that far from Somerset), >> and then about 1800 to the Green River in Kentucky, where he collected >> salt as a business. >> >> Philip married first, Drucilla (sp) Penrod, daughter of John Penrod Jr >> and Catherine Barrone. The first son, Phillip, was born about 1775 - so >> marriage would have been a little before that. Drusilla/Drucilla was >> born 1760 in Frederick Co MD - so it there is not much leaway before >> that. I'm guessing that the first son was actually born in 1776 or 1777 >> - and that the marriage was 1776, which would be possible -on the >> frontier, even if not normal. Second child is Catherine, born 1779. >> Yes, I have 9 children by her [Phillip -Catherine -Jane -Mariah -John >> -Daniel -David -Benjamin -George W] (no children by any other >> marriage). Drusilla died 1803 in Muhlenberg Co KY. (I accept that >> these dates might be approximate.) The youngest son, George Washington >> Kimmel married about 1815 and came to Montgomery Co OH where his wife, >> Elizabeth, died. He remarried in 1822 to a Susan Smith, and the next >> year, 1823, married an Elizabeth Christian in Darke Co OH. He died in >> Union Co IL, where at least his brother, Daniel, was living. The other >> children were in Indiana or remained in Kentucky. Son John was a >> Baptist Preacher (which now always catches my attention - ), in 1810 he >> was in Henderson Co KY, in 1820 in Union Co IL and in 1830 in Spencer Co >> IN - at the Little Pigeon Baptist Church. >> >> Phillip married second, Rachel (Martin) Stump - 1 Feb 1801 (except I >> think it would have been 1802, and possibly 1803). Francis Stump seems >> to have died in September of 1801, his estate was brought to court in >> October. As near as I can find - Rachel was born about 1765 (possibly >> Mifflin Co PA - if she is the daughter of Everhard Martin) and died >> about 1810 in Kentucky (possibly in McCracken Co -since Phillip's >> marriage to Ann Hester is there). There are no children listed for >> her. Only a few of the records that I saw, indicated that Rachel was >> daughter of George Adam Martin, almost consistently they said: Everhard >> Martin. I have not been able to find a daughter named Rachel for George >> Adam Martin (except for this claim or tradition -that Rachel was >> daughter of George Adam), and none of his children seem to have gone to >> Kentucky, whereas several of Everhard Martin's children went to >> Muhlenberg Co KY. >> >> Phillip married third, Ann Hester Lovelace, daughter of Elias Lovelace, >> marriage: 7 Apr 1814 in McCracken Co KY. She died in 1830, McCracken Co. >> >> No, my big question is on the daughters of Rachel Martin Stump, and >> Francis Stump (after all, he was the first ordained Brethren Minister to >> Muhlenberg Co KY - I HAVE to include Him!) I suspect they are correctly >> named - since Rachel had sisters by the same names (if daughter of >> Everhard Martin) -those sisters did have the marriages attributed to >> Rachel's daughters -two of the sisters did live in Muhlenberg Co KY: >> [Gilbert Vaught came from Pennsylvania to Kentucky with Capt Henry >> Rhoads in 1784 (wife Mary Martin - not Mary Stump), and John Vaught soon >> followed him (wife Elizabeth Martin - not Elizabeth Stump). Anna >> Barbara Martin married John Frampton Jr, and lived in Beaver Valley, >> north of Pittsburg (not Barbara Stump and "a Frampton"). I had found >> info in Muhlenberg Co KY on the Vaught/Vought families - I had found no >> Framptons.] >> >> So my question is still - what do we know about the children of Rachel >> and Francis Stump? (Yes, son Frederick was murdered - 1799 - possibly >> only 12 years old.) Rachel's marriage to Francis Stump was about 1780 >> (more probably after). She was born about 1765 - so that would make her >> pretty young for marriage, and Frederick (eldest known child) was born >> about 1787 - so there would either be missing older children, or >> possibly a later marriage date. Dates of birth for the 3 daughters were >> in the 1790s. The information given was that Francis was born about >> 1756, Cumberland Co PA (does anyone have better data?). >> >> Merle C Rummel >> >> > Philip 1756 married Drusilla Penrod, a daughter of John Penrod, but I > don't >> > have a date for that. Given the number of children attributed to > Drusilla, >> > I would assume that the marriage occurred in Somerset Co. PA, since > Philip is >> > supposed to have moved to Kentucky about 1796. The rumor within the > family >> > is that he fell out with all the brothers after Philip 1724's death in > 1796. >> > Marie's record for Drusilla says she died in Kentucky about 1803 and > says >> > "date is approximate." We have nine children attributed to Drusilla, > the >> > last of them in 1793 in Pennsylvnia. >> > >> > Marie indicates a second marriage by Philip 1756 to Ann (maiden name >> > not >> > given) who had previously been married to a man named Lovelace, then to > a Robert >> > Hester, and lastly to Philip Kimmel. Schaefer's Kimmel genealogies >> > give >> > Drusilla Penrod as first wife, and "R Bear" as second, but doesn't have > a YOD >> > for Drusilla. >> > >> > Philip Kimmel's will was written December 29 1829 and filed for probate > in >> > McCracken County, KY, March 8, 1830. >> > >> >> >> ------------------------ >> Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN >> ------------------------ >> Support Our Sponsoring Agency >> The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) >> For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com >> ------------------------ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:McAdamsr@hotmail.com > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message