Debby, Franz Graff and Jacob Graff are probably not related. Franz Graff emigrated from Rafz, Zurich, Switzerland, with his widowed mother, Verena nee Neukomm, in 1744. Hans Graff, father of Jacob, was also a native of Switzerland. He immigrated to Pennsylvania sometime between 1699, when Jacob was born, and 1709, when Jacob was recorded by two Lutheran clergy as having been left behind by his father. Jacob was the first person in his line to become Brethren. As for Franz Graff, his family connected with the Conestoga Brethren through his second wife, Eva Hammacher. Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Franz Graff, Magdalena Herr, Eva Hamacher, and Others Thank you Dwayne, I really appreciate you sharing your research with this list. My question is: how does Franz Graff connect to Jacob Graff who died in 1776? Debby Bliss, a descendant of Peter Eichenberg and Fronica Graff

Thank you Dwayne, I really appreciate you sharing your research with this list. My question is: how does Franz Graff connect to Jacob Graff who died in 1776? Debby Bliss, a descendant of Peter Eichenberg and Fronica Graff

In 1997, and again in 2010, this list discussed the family of Franz Graff, arguing about which wife, Magdalena Herr, or Eva Hamacher, was the first wife, and which was the second. Using logic, Magdalena Herr was the first wife because the family was originally Mennonite. The family shifted to Brethren after Franz Graff married Eva Hamacher (who was definitely Brethren). Using age differentials of the children leads to the same conclusion. Second wife, Eva Hamacher, was born into the Brethren family of Adam and Eve Hamacher of the Great Swatara Congregation. Adam was a minister at Great Swatara in 1770. His wife and daughter were also members. It would appear that Eva Hamacher Graff had a big influence in her family’s religion. My interest in the Franz Graff family stems from the list of Brethren baptisms in the Conestoga Congregation as reported in Brumbaugh’s 1899 book, pages 307-315. It turns out that the majority of the Graff/Groff baptisms listed in Brumbaugh’s book were members of the family of Franz Graff and Eva Hamacher. Page 313 – Sister Hamacher and her daughters, Maria and Eva, were baptized in 1763 (actually 1762 according to alternative documents). Page 314 – In 1780, June 11, was added Anna Groff (who would marry Henry Mohler of Ephrata in the following year). Page 315 – In 1790, May 3, was added Daniel Hollinger Jr. (who would later marry Barbara Graff, daughter of Franz and Eva [Hamacher] Graff). Page 315 – in 1793, May 12, were added Hannis Groff and his wife Elizabeth (born Hollinger, daughter of Daniel Hollinger Sr.). In the Brumbaugh book the above names are spelled Groff. The Groff spelling was basically interchangeable with the Graff spelling. Prior to the baptisms reported above, there were some earlier Graff baptisms. These were basically among the children of Jacob Graff (1699-1776) who belonged to Conrad Beissel’s Ephrata Community of Seventh Day Brethren. Jacob Graff was the oldest son of Hans Graff (died 1746). Hans Graff (discussed in footnote 1, page 161, in Brumbaugh) was one of the original Mennonites to settle in the waters of the Conestoga River (which many years later became Lancaster County). He disowned his oldest son, Jacob Graff, for joining up with Conrad Beissel by cutting him out of his will. When Jacob Graff died in 1776, he left a will but named only his oldest son Joseph. His other children were not named. He left a clue, however, by naming Peter Eichenberg as one of his executors. Page 312 – 1752, May 3, Peter Eichenberg was baptized (by Elder Michael Pfautz). Page 311 – 1750, April 15, “Fröniga Graff” and other “Ephrataites” were received into the communion of the Conestoga church without rebaptism. Because Fronica was from the Ephrata Community, and because Peter Eichenberg was an executor of Jacob Graff’s estate in 1776, and because Jacob Graff was a long-standing member of the Ephrata Community up to his death, I assume that Fronica Graff was a daughter of Jacob Graff and the wife of Peter Eichenberger (who would later become elder in charge of the Conestoga Congregation prior to moving on to Virginia and Ohio). Peter and Fronica were married about 1758 as their oldest child Susannah was born in 1759. Page 312 – 1754, October 20, Hannes Graff was baptized at Conestoga. Was “Hannes a son of Jacob Graff (1699-1776)? (To be continued.) Comments welcome! Dwayne Wrightsman

The Ziegler Family Record revised 1990 by Floyd Mason (http://www.archive.org/details/zieglerfamilyrec00zieg) covers the Philip Ziegler and Regina Reguel family of Rehrersburg, Berks County, Pennsylvania. Philip Ziegler was born in 1734 Switzerland and immigrated in 1746 to Berks County, Pennsylvania. Nothing is known about his parents or siblings. Most Ziegler family information is late 1700's or early 1800's to the present so I can't speculate on anything not in the expanded 1990 book which mostly updates 20th century Zeigler families based on the 1906 "Ziegler Family Record" by Elder Jesse Ziegler online at http://www.archive.org/details/zieglerfamilyrec00zieg Stan Follis Zeigler Families in the United States http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sfollis/zeigler/zeigler_fa milies.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dale Landon Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 7:35 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [BRE] Zeigler Marriage Hi Stan and others, My ZEIGLER is a Johannes Deter/Deterick b ca 1705 who had a daughter, Eva Elisabeth b ca 1730 and married Jacob TRAUB/TROUP 22 Sep 1767 in Upper Salford Twp, Philadelphia (now Montgomery) Co, PA. Does anyone have any info on the above? Bob

Hi Stan and others, My ZEIGLER is a Johannes Deter/Deterick b ca 1705 who had a daughter, Eva Elisabeth b ca 1730 and married Jacob TRAUB/TROUP 22 Sep 1767 in Upper Salford Twp, Philadelphia (now Montgomery) Co, PA. Does anyone have any info on the above? Bob Bob don't know if you have this. In 1994 Adams Apple Press reprinted volumes of The Historical and Natural Science Society of the Perkiomen Region Pennsburg, Pennsylvania. In Vol. No. 6 page 138 I found : Translation of the Records of the Old Goshenhoppen Lutheran Congregation entry number 55. Jacob Traub, Luth. Single, from Wuertenburg. F. Jac. Traub, M. Waldburga. And Eva Elisabeth, Luth. Single, daughter of Joh. Deter Ziegler. Served at Casper Wiester's. Proclaimed: I, At Oldgosch. Sept. 11; II, At Newgosch. Sep. 18. Married at Henr. Helig's place in Newgosch. Sept. 22. Is Michael Ziegler an uncle to Johannes Deter Ziegler? Dale Landon ____________________________________________________________ Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! http://www.netzero.net/freeemail?refcd=NZTAGOUT1FREM0210

Thank You, I appreciate it. Mary Ann -------------------------------------------------- From: "N. H. Goodman" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 1:21 AM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > Mary Ann, I am going to be out of town for a couple of days before I can > look up what information I have on the Boohers. In the mean time I will > forward your questions to another cousin, by the name of Cathryn Adams, > who > has done extensive research on the Boohers. > > N. H. Goodman > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Mary Ann Booher > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 3:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > > Hello > > Do you know the lineage of Hannah Booher that you mentioned? > I'm unable to place her. Dates. Places etc> > > Thank you > > Mary Ann Booher > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "N. H. Goodman" <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 5:28 PM > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > >> Hello "another Bigler cousin" Gale. Glad to know how we are related. >> Have enjoyed your postings to the list for a long time. >> >> And yes, I was also thrilled to learn some of the ancestry of Marx >> Bigler. >> And to answer your question, yes we have Mark's grandparents on both >> lines and one more generation back from one of his great >> grandmothers! Also Mark has two more brothers, Hans Jacob and Hans >> George. So I have lots more information to share. >> >> I spent a great deal of time about 33 years ago compiling a thick ring >> binder of research notes on him over a 2 year period before I gave up. >> Then about 10 years ago my youngest daughter invited my husband and I to >> visit them in Germany, where her husband was stationed with the Air >> Force. So I re-read all my Bigler notes and went to Germany, naively >> intending to find our Mark. Of course that did not happen! >> >> In those days internet service in our remote community was dialup and >> pay long distance charges. But a few days after we got home I decided >> to join AOL, because they had a great genealogy site. I paid my fees, >> logged on the site, typed in "Mark Bigler", and there he was - in >> Hunspach! Only a 2 hour drive from where I had just spent 2 weeks!! > >> What I had found was the book, "Eighteenth Century Emigrants from the >> Northern Alsace to America" by Annette Kunselman Burgert, FGSP,FASG, >> published by Picton Press, copyright 1992, pages 71-74. Perhaps you know >> Mrs. Burgert. If you do not have access to this book it would be well >> worth it obtain a copy. If you need it, I can send you her address. The > same >> information also appears in "Early German Settlers of York County, >> Pennsylvania" by Keith A. Dull, published by Willow Bend Books, copyright >> 1997, page 180. I rented a microfilmed copy of the Parish Registers of >> the >> Evangelical Reformed Church of Hunspach, Alsace (now Bas Rhin) France, >> and >> spent the next year reading it, all the while learning to read the old >> German script. >> >> The next year we went to Germany again. Our daughter loaned us a car, >> took us by the Archives of Bas Rhin, put us in a hotel outside of > Strasburg, >> and left us there for a week. The above mentioned original parish > registers >> are there but can only be read on microfilm, and you have to make an >> appointment a couple of weeks in advance to use a microfilm reader. (This > may have >> changed since then.) So, since I had already extracted the family and >> collateral lines from the microfilm, I spent my time searching the notary >> records. A notary was like an attorney, and they handled the legal >> matters, including the distribution of estates. It was there that I found > the >> mothers that the parish records did not name, and got one more generation > back on >> another. What a thrill to handle the 300+ year old books of original > documents and to > read the actual signatures of some of our ancestors, and >> to learn a little about their lives!! >> >> I did not have the privilege of meeting Norman Burns, but I corresponded >> with him. He did not have any more copies of his book, but he very kindly >> made me a photo copy of his personal copy, which contains many hand >> written notes and additional information that he obtained after the book > was >> published. (Maybe you have those too.) Unfortunately, I did not think to >> let him know that Mark had been found. I don't know if he was still >> living > at >> that time. The book (78 pages) that he worked on with Frank and Sherman >> Brough follows the lines of Mark's son Jacob for 4 generations down to >> Jacob G. Bigler who was my great, great grandfather. >> >> I did, however, meet Frank Brough (another cousin), and shared the >> information with him before he died. He was also the author of "Freely I >> Gave, the Life of Jacob G. Bigler". Jacob G. Bigler was the son of Mark >> Bigler (and Susannah Ogden), who was the son of Jacob Bigler (and Hannah >> Booher, who migrated to Enterprise, Virginia), who was the son of Mark I. >> >> None of these three books are still in print, but I might be able to get >> copies that were made by a couple of other relatives with permission of >> their respective authors. >> >>N. H. Goodman >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of gale honeyman >> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:29 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago >> >> Enter another Bigler cousin through Elizabeth Bigler and Henry Eller, the >> first. > >> First off, I am thrilled for the baptismal record of Marx and his brother >> Michael. This is totally new information to me. Am I to presume that >> these were the only two in the Hunspach registry, or were there others? > Is >> anything further known of Hans Thomas and Anna Maria? > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for your reply. I have sent your response to my cousin and will get back to you. Thanks again. Bonnie ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 11:31:18 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Lease Family I have Lees in my tree. I missed the first of this post so I don't know if it is a match. Elizabeth Garber 1848-1914 m David George Jacobs 1846 -1918 had my ancestor Carrie Bell Jacobs 1872 -1922 and Sarah E. Jacobs 1869 - ? m Charles S. Lees 1867 - 1907 They had Raymond 1896 and Arther 1899. I would have to dig deeper but I am pretty sure that is the Raymond Lees that married Helen Hiner in 1916. I have a copy of an extensive Hiner family history 1712 - 1981 by Jeff Kuhn Mostly Miami County Indiana people. ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry, that was the only reference to the Lease Family in the Eller book. Neither my wife or I are descended from the Lease, Bigler or Eller families. I ran across this reference in my collection of Brethren genealogies.Milton Cook ____________________________________________________________ $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d5dc4eb8466332f2d0st06vuc

I have Lees in my tree. I missed the first of this post so I don't know if it is a match. Elizabeth Garber 1848-1914 m David George Jacobs 1846 -1918 had my ancestor Carrie Bell Jacobs 1872 -1922 and Sarah E. Jacobs 1869 - ? m Charles S. Lees 1867 - 1907 They had Raymond 1896 and Arther 1899. I would have to dig deeper but I am pretty sure that is the Raymond Lees that married Helen Hiner in 1916. I have a copy of an extensive Hiner family history 1712 - 1981 by Jeff Kuhn Mostly Miami County Indiana people. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, Feb 17, 2011 8:00 pm Subject: [BRE] Lease Family Sorry, that was the only reference to the Lease Family in the Eller book. Neither my wife or I are descended from the Lease, Bigler or Eller families. I ran across this reference in my collection of Brethren genealogies.Milton Cook ____________________________________________________________ $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d5dc4eb8466332f2d0st06vuc ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mary Ann, I am going to be out of town for a couple of days before I can look up what information I have on the Boohers. In the mean time I will forward your questions to another cousin, by the name of Cathryn Adams, who has done extensive research on the Boohers. N. H. Goodman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mary Ann Booher Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 3:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago Hello Do you know the lineage of Hannah Booher that you mentioned? I'm unable to place her. Dates. Places etc> Thank you Mary Ann Booher -------------------------------------------------- From: "N. H. Goodman" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 5:28 PM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > Hello "another Bigler cousin" Gale. Glad to know how we are related. > Have enjoyed your postings to the list for a long time. > > And yes, I was also thrilled to learn some of the ancestry of Marx Bigler. > And to answer your question, yes we have Mark's grandparents on both > lines and one more generation back from one of his great > grandmothers! Also Mark has two more brothers, Hans Jacob and Hans > George. So I have lots more information to share. > > I spent a great deal of time about 33 years ago compiling a thick ring > binder of research notes on him over a 2 year period before I gave up. > Then about 10 years ago my youngest daughter invited my husband and I to > visit them in Germany, where her husband was stationed with the Air > Force. So I re-read all my Bigler notes and went to Germany, naively > intending to find our Mark. Of course that did not happen! > > In those days internet service in our remote community was dialup and > pay long distance charges. But a few days after we got home I decided > to join AOL, because they had a great genealogy site. I paid my fees, > logged on the site, typed in "Mark Bigler", and there he was - in > Hunspach! Only a 2 hour drive from where I had just spent 2 weeks!! > What I had found was the book, "Eighteenth Century Emigrants from the > Northern Alsace to America" by Annette Kunselman Burgert, FGSP,FASG, > published by Picton Press, copyright 1992, pages 71-74. Perhaps you know > Mrs. Burgert. If you do not have access to this book it would be well > worth it obtain a copy. If you need it, I can send you her address. The same > information also appears in "Early German Settlers of York County, > Pennsylvania" by Keith A. Dull, published by Willow Bend Books, copyright > 1997, page 180. I rented a microfilmed copy of the Parish Registers of the > Evangelical Reformed Church of Hunspach, Alsace (now Bas Rhin) France, and > spent the next year reading it, all the while learning to read the old > German script. > > The next year we went to Germany again. Our daughter loaned us a car, > took us by the Archives of Bas Rhin, put us in a hotel outside of Strasburg, > and left us there for a week. The above mentioned original parish registers > are there but can only be read on microfilm, and you have to make an > appointment a couple of weeks in advance to use a microfilm reader. (This may have > changed since then.) So, since I had already extracted the family and > collateral lines from the microfilm, I spent my time searching the notary > records. A notary was like an attorney, and they handled the legal > matters, including the distribution of estates. It was there that I found the > mothers that the parish records did not name, and got one more generation back on > another. What a thrill to handle the 300+ year old books of original documents and to read the actual signatures of some of our ancestors, and > to learn a little about their lives!! > > I did not have the privilege of meeting Norman Burns, but I corresponded > with him. He did not have any more copies of his book, but he very kindly > made me a photo copy of his personal copy, which contains many hand > written notes and additional information that he obtained after the book was > published. (Maybe you have those too.) Unfortunately, I did not think to > let him know that Mark had been found. I don't know if he was still living at > that time. The book (78 pages) that he worked on with Frank and Sherman > Brough follows the lines of Mark's son Jacob for 4 generations down to > Jacob G. Bigler who was my great, great grandfather. > > I did, however, meet Frank Brough (another cousin), and shared the > information with him before he died. He was also the author of "Freely I > Gave, the Life of Jacob G. Bigler". Jacob G. Bigler was the son of Mark > Bigler (and Susannah Ogden), who was the son of Jacob Bigler (and Hannah > Booher, who migrated to Enterprise, Virginia), who was the son of Mark I. > > None of these three books are still in print, but I might be able to get > copies that were made by a couple of other relatives with permission of > their respective authors. > >N. H. Goodman > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of gale honeyman > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:29 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > > Enter another Bigler cousin through Elizabeth Bigler and Henry Eller, the > first. > First off, I am thrilled for the baptismal record of Marx and his brother > Michael. This is totally new information to me. Am I to presume that > these were the only two in the Hunspach registry, or were there others? Is > anything further known of Hans Thomas and Anna Maria?

Well, Bob, I guess I am one of those really odd ducks. My great grandmother on my father's side, Margaret Penman, came to America as a young child with her parents, from Airdrie, Lanark, Scotland. I would be interested in knowing how you are connected to Mark Bigler. N. H. Goodman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John McLeod Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 5:58 PM To: Bob Harter; [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago AMEN!!!!! You folks have even captured some really odd ducks into your tribe of cousins! Like yours truly, a first generation American; my father was born in Scotland! Half of mother's ancestry lived among you until 1855, including a connection to Mark Bigler. You get to count me among your cousins too. At 08:09 PM 2/16/2011, "Bob Harter" <[email protected]> wrote: >I have come to the conclusions that at least 75% of those on the >Brethren discussion group are cousins! For those who had an ancestor >who was a GBB before 1800 it probably is 99.9% > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You are absolutely right! I posted information found on another site without verifying it's accuracy. My apologies to all. N. H. Goodman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John McLeod Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 5:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BRE] Miller mis-information You blithely listed a 9 year old father!! David Miller, born 1734, was NOT the father of Henry Miller, born 1743. Any site which will post such nonsense is not to be trusted. It has clearly made a false connection between two Miller families who happened to live near each other. I also have reason to doubt that Henry Miller was born as late as 1743, but that squeeze is not so clear. At 04:39 PM 2/16/2011, "N. H. Goodman" <[email protected]> wrote: >I am sure there is lots of Miller information available. One huge site >I found is: http://brewer-family.org/genealogy/miller >According to the information on this site, Henry Miller, husband of >Catharine Bigler, was born 1743 and died in 1793. He was the son of >David Miller, born 1734 in Frederick County, MD and died in 1783, >husband of Catherine. His father was Abraham Miller, born 24 Aug 1707 >and died 20 Sep >1754 in Frederick County, MD. Lots of Miller information on this site! > >N. H. Goodman > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] >On Behalf Of John McLeod >Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 7:48 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > >Does anyone know anything about the ancestors of the Henry Miller who >married Catharine Bigler, d/o Mark Bigler. He apparently came down to >Maryland at about the same time as Mark Bigler and family. I have >found reason to suppose that I am descended from their son, Joseph Miller bn. >1765. > > > > > ------------------------ Search the >Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further >information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] > ------------------------ > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

AMEN!!!!! You folks have even captured some really odd ducks into your tribe of cousins! Like yours truly, a first generation American; my father was born in Scotland! Half of mother's ancestry lived among you until 1855, including a connection to Mark Bigler. You get to count me among your cousins too. At 08:09 PM 2/16/2011, "Bob Harter" <[email protected]> wrote: >I have come to the conclusions that at least 75% of those on the Brethren >discussion group are cousins! For those who had an ancestor who was a GBB >before 1800 it probably is 99.9% >

You blithely listed a 9 year old father!! David Miller, born 1734, was NOT the father of Henry Miller, born 1743. Any site which will post such nonsense is not to be trusted. It has clearly made a false connection between two Miller families who happened to live near each other. I also have reason to doubt that Henry Miller was born as late as 1743, but that squeeze is not so clear. At 04:39 PM 2/16/2011, "N. H. Goodman" <[email protected]> wrote: >I am sure there is lots of Miller information available. One huge site I >found is: http://brewer-family.org/genealogy/miller >According to the information on this site, Henry Miller, husband of >Catharine Bigler, was born 1743 and died in 1793. He was the son of David >Miller, born 1734 in Frederick County, MD and died in 1783, husband of >Catherine. His father was Abraham Miller, born 24 Aug 1707 and died 20 Sep >1754 in Frederick County, MD. Lots of Miller information on this site! > >N. H. Goodman > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >On Behalf Of John McLeod >Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 7:48 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > >Does anyone know anything about the ancestors of the Henry Miller who >married Catharine Bigler, d/o Mark Bigler. He apparently came down to >Maryland at about the same time as Mark Bigler and family. I have found >reason to suppose that I am descended from their son, Joseph Miller bn. >1765. > > > > > ------------------------ >Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) >For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] > ------------------------ > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Do you know the lineage of Hannah Booher that you mentioned? I'm unable to place her. Dates. Places etc> Thank you Mary Ann Booher -------------------------------------------------- From: "N. H. Goodman" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 5:28 PM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > Hello "another Bigler cousin" Gale. Glad to know how we are related. Have > enjoyed your postings to the list for a long time. > > > > And yes, I was also thrilled to learn some of the ancestry of Marx Bigler. > And to answer your question, yes we have Mark's grandparents on both lines > and one more generation back from one of his great grandmothers! Also > Mark > has two more brothers, Hans Jacob and Hans George. So I have lots more > information to share. > > > > I spent a great deal of time about 33 years ago compiling a thick ring > binder of research notes on him over a 2 year period before I gave up. > Then > about 10 years ago my youngest daughter invited my husband and I to visit > them in Germany, where her husband was stationed with the Air Force. So I > re-read all my Bigler notes and went to Germany, naively intending to find > our Mark. Of course that did not happen! > > > > In those days internet service in our remote community was dialup and pay > long distance charges. But a few days after we got home I decided to join > AOL, because they had a great genealogy site. I paid my fees, logged on > the > site, typed in "Mark Bigler", and there he was - in Hunspach! Only a 2 > hour > drive from where I had just spent 2 weeks!! > > > > What I had found was the book, "Eighteenth Century Emigrants from the > Northern Alsace to America" by Annette Kunselman Burgert, FGSP,FASG, > published by Picton Press, copyright 1992, pages 71-74. Perhaps you know > Mrs. Burgert. If you do not have access to this book it would be well > worth > it obtain a copy. If you need it, I can send you her address. The same > information also appears in "Early German Settlers of York County, > Pennsylvania" by Keith A. Dull, published by Willow Bend Books, copyright > 1997, page 180. I rented a microfilmed copy of the Parish Registers of the > Evangelical Reformed Church of Hunspach, Alsace (now Bas Rhin) France, and > spent the next year reading it, all the while learning to read the old > German script. > > > > The next year we went to Germany again. Our daughter loaned us a car, > took > us by the Archives of Bas Rhin, put us in a hotel outside of Strasburg, > and > left us there for a week. The above mentioned original parish registers > are > there but can only be read on microfilm, and you have to make an > appointment > a couple of weeks in advance to use a microfilm reader. (This may have > changed since then.) So, since I had already extracted the family and > collateral lines from the microfilm, I spent my time searching the notary > records. A notary was like an attorney, and they handled the legal > matters, > including the distribution of estates. It was there that I found the > mothers > that the parish records did not name, and got one more generation back on > another. What a thrill to handle the 300+ year old books of original > documents and to read the actual signatures of some of our ancestors, and > to > learn a little about their lives!! > > > > I did not have the privilege of meeting Norman Burns, but I corresponded > with him. He did not have any more copies of his book, but he very kindly > made me a photo copy of his personal copy, which contains many hand > written > notes and additional information that he obtained after the book was > published. (Maybe you have those too.) Unfortunately, I did not think to > let > him know that Mark had been found. I don't know if he was still living at > that time. The book (78 pages) that he worked on with Frank and Sherman > Brough follows the lines of Mark's son Jacob for 4 generations down to > Jacob > G. Bigler who was my great, great grandfather. > > > > I did, however, meet Frank Brough (another cousin), and shared the > information with him before he died. He was also the author of "Freely I > Gave, the Life of Jacob G. Bigler". Jacob G. Bigler was the son of Mark > Bigler (and Susannah Ogden), who was the son of Jacob Bigler (and Hannah > Booher, who migrated to Enterprise, Virginia), who was the son of Mark I. > > > > None of these three books are still in print, but I might be able to get > copies that were made by a couple of other relatives with permission of > their respective authors. > > > > N. H. Goodman > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of gale honeyman > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:29 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > > > > Enter another Bigler cousin through Elizabeth Bigler and Henry Eller, the > first. > > > > First off, I am thrilled for the baptismal record of Marx and his brother > Michael. This is totally new information to me. Am I to presume that > these > were the only two in the Hunspach registry, or were there others? Is > anything further known of Hans Thomas and Anna Maria? > > > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello "another Bigler cousin" Gale. Glad to know how we are related. Have enjoyed your postings to the list for a long time. And yes, I was also thrilled to learn some of the ancestry of Marx Bigler. And to answer your question, yes we have Mark's grandparents on both lines and one more generation back from one of his great grandmothers! Also Mark has two more brothers, Hans Jacob and Hans George. So I have lots more information to share. I spent a great deal of time about 33 years ago compiling a thick ring binder of research notes on him over a 2 year period before I gave up. Then about 10 years ago my youngest daughter invited my husband and I to visit them in Germany, where her husband was stationed with the Air Force. So I re-read all my Bigler notes and went to Germany, naively intending to find our Mark. Of course that did not happen! In those days internet service in our remote community was dialup and pay long distance charges. But a few days after we got home I decided to join AOL, because they had a great genealogy site. I paid my fees, logged on the site, typed in "Mark Bigler", and there he was - in Hunspach! Only a 2 hour drive from where I had just spent 2 weeks!! What I had found was the book, "Eighteenth Century Emigrants from the Northern Alsace to America" by Annette Kunselman Burgert, FGSP,FASG, published by Picton Press, copyright 1992, pages 71-74. Perhaps you know Mrs. Burgert. If you do not have access to this book it would be well worth it obtain a copy. If you need it, I can send you her address. The same information also appears in "Early German Settlers of York County, Pennsylvania" by Keith A. Dull, published by Willow Bend Books, copyright 1997, page 180. I rented a microfilmed copy of the Parish Registers of the Evangelical Reformed Church of Hunspach, Alsace (now Bas Rhin) France, and spent the next year reading it, all the while learning to read the old German script. The next year we went to Germany again. Our daughter loaned us a car, took us by the Archives of Bas Rhin, put us in a hotel outside of Strasburg, and left us there for a week. The above mentioned original parish registers are there but can only be read on microfilm, and you have to make an appointment a couple of weeks in advance to use a microfilm reader. (This may have changed since then.) So, since I had already extracted the family and collateral lines from the microfilm, I spent my time searching the notary records. A notary was like an attorney, and they handled the legal matters, including the distribution of estates. It was there that I found the mothers that the parish records did not name, and got one more generation back on another. What a thrill to handle the 300+ year old books of original documents and to read the actual signatures of some of our ancestors, and to learn a little about their lives!! I did not have the privilege of meeting Norman Burns, but I corresponded with him. He did not have any more copies of his book, but he very kindly made me a photo copy of his personal copy, which contains many hand written notes and additional information that he obtained after the book was published. (Maybe you have those too.) Unfortunately, I did not think to let him know that Mark had been found. I don't know if he was still living at that time. The book (78 pages) that he worked on with Frank and Sherman Brough follows the lines of Mark's son Jacob for 4 generations down to Jacob G. Bigler who was my great, great grandfather. I did, however, meet Frank Brough (another cousin), and shared the information with him before he died. He was also the author of "Freely I Gave, the Life of Jacob G. Bigler". Jacob G. Bigler was the son of Mark Bigler (and Susannah Ogden), who was the son of Jacob Bigler (and Hannah Booher, who migrated to Enterprise, Virginia), who was the son of Mark I. None of these three books are still in print, but I might be able to get copies that were made by a couple of other relatives with permission of their respective authors. N. H. Goodman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of gale honeyman Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago Enter another Bigler cousin through Elizabeth Bigler and Henry Eller, the first. First off, I am thrilled for the baptismal record of Marx and his brother Michael. This is totally new information to me. Am I to presume that these were the only two in the Hunspach registry, or were there others? Is anything further known of Hans Thomas and Anna Maria?

I was surprised to see the name John Michael Carl. I wonder if it is the same Johan Michael Carle who married Anna Maria Scherr and had a daughter Anna Maria Carle (1738-1789) married to Caspar Reinecker in Hanover, York County, Pennsylvania. Anna Maria Carle was baptized at "Conewago" February 7, 1738 and sponsors were Andreas Carl and Wife Anna Maria. While Caspar and Anna Maria Reinecker were not German Baptist, many of the Paul Reinecker (his brother) family of Silver Run Maryland later became German Baptist. The name appears in Ohio churches as Renneckar, Rennecker, Renneker. Particularly in Wayne, Stark, Tuscarawas Counties of Ohio. John Shafer > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 00:28:48 -0500 > Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > > Enter another Bigler cousin through Elizabeth Bigler and Henry Eller, the > first. > > First off, I am thrilled for the baptismal record of Marx and his brother > Michael. This is totally new information to me. Am I to presume that these > were the only two in the Hunspach registry, or were there others? Is > anything further known of Hans Thomas and Anna Maria? > > The 1738 warrant is indeed in present day York County PA. > > Marx Birgler and wife sponsored the baptism of Maria Catarina daughter of > John Michael Carl on November 13, 1739 at Conewago Evangelical Lutheran > Church preformed by Rev. Johann Casper Stoever Jr. In the same congregation > with the same minister, Anna Maria daughter of Marx Biegler, born March 30, > 1741 was baptized August 21, 1741. My conjecture is that she was the mother > of Esther Randabush named in Mark's 1787 will. [Birgler and Biegler are > spelled as in the original] To my knowledge, this is the only confirmed > birthdate of the Bigler children. They apparently are not named in order of > birth in Mark's will as the first named, Mark Jr. died in 1826 in Botetourt > Co VA at the age of 79, making his birth circa 1746/7. > > Mark Biegler obtained Mark's Delight on March 1, 1743 in Frederick County > MD. Through the years he added adjoining tracts, Bigler's Addition to > Hull's Choice in 1750 [this deed names Mark and wife Mary Catharine Bigler], > Resurvey on Hull's Choice in 1761 and Hickory Bottom in 1781. > > I had the privilege of corresponding with and later meeting Norman Burns and > finally obtaining a copy of his book. I was not aware that their was a > second book that he collaborated with. Does it add significantly to the > first book? > > Gale Honeyman > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "N. H. Goodman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:33 PM > Subject: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago > > > > My grandfather, George Albert Bigler, is a direct line descendant of the > immigrant Marx Bigler (many variations in the spelling of his name) who > arrived in Pennsylvania on September 28, 1933 on the Brigantine Richard and > Elizabeth from the Palatinate. Mark was born April 17, 1705 at Ingolsheim, > Alsace, France and baptized April 19, 1705 in the Evangelical Reformed > Church at Hunspach, Alsace, France. He was the son of Hans Thomas Bögler and > Anna Maria Vogler. His younger brother Hans Michael, born December 3, 1707, > arrived May 30, 1741 on the Francis and Ann. Only one other Bigler, Mathias, > is known to have arrived before Mark, on September 18, 1733, on the > Pennsylvania Merchant of London. > > Mark was issued a land warrant from the Province of Pennsylvania on October > 18, 1738 for 200 acres in Lancaster county, thought to have been in the > Manor of Springetbury on the Little Conewago River, adjacent to the land of > Leonard Leyst or Lease. > > Also in 1738 the Little Conewago Church of the Brethren was organized by > Daniel Leatherman. According to Brumbaugh's "A History of the German > Baptist Brethren in Europe and America", "Among the constituent members were > families of the name Eldrick, Dierdorff, BIGLER, Gripe, Stutsman and > others." A list of the members in 1770 did not include any Biglers. Mark > moved to Frederick county, Maryland about 1743. > > I have other information on these families, but maybe this is enough for the > great historians on this list to chew on at one time. Much of the > information I have comes from "The Bigler Family", by Norman Burns, and "The > First Four Generations of Biglers in America", by Franklin K. Brough and > Sherman G. Brough in collaboration with Norman Burns. > > N. H. Goodman > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Stan and others, My ZEIGLER is a Johannes Deter/Deterick b ca 1705 who had a daughter, Eva Elisabeth b ca 1730 and married Jacob TRAUB/TROUP 22 Sep 1767 in Upper Salford Twp, Philadelphia (now Montgomery) Co, PA. Does anyone have any info on the above? Bob

I think Bob Harter is right. Both of my parents are descended from the GBB and my niece and I fully expected that we would find a link tying them together at some point. So far that hasn't happened. Both descend from groups that traveled together in many instances. Most of us have that type history in our backgrounds. Ruth -----Original Message----- From: Bob Harter Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 9:09 PM To: N. H. Goodman ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago I have come to the conclusions that at least 75% of those on the Brethren discussion group are cousins! For those who had an ancestor who was a GBB before 1800 it probably is 99.9% No big problem - as I said, it is a minor point considering various spellings of many names. What I would REALLY like to see is some record of the marriage of Christian Harter and Elizabeth Eller. The majority of his siblings were married in St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Frederick Co., MD, but I have no record of where they were married (or the exact date). I assume probably a German Baptist Brethren Church. By the way, Christian and Elizabeth were my 5G grandparents, as I said, but my direct line Harter ancestor was Frantz Harter, one of Christian's brothers. Frantz's son, John, married Christian's granddaughter, Catharine Ray. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "N. H. Goodman" <[email protected]> To: "'Bob Harter'" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:48 PM Subject: RE: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago >I love it! I am meeting all kinds of cousins! > > Sorry for the misspelling Bob. My source for the spelling was only one of > several sources cited on the site I was reading. Other sources cited were > spelled correctly. I just happened to pick the wrong one, and I am glad > you > corrected me! The site I was reading was: > http://www.myfamilysearch.net/getperson.php?personID=I504&tree=2005217a > > N. H. Goodman > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To N. H.: I think you have to assume that the Etter spelling in the recorded will was a clerical error. Recorded wills were not the originals. The name Eller is spelled in numerous and various ways in documents of all kinds. For example, in the Brumbaugh and Bomberger lists of Conestoga Brethren baptisms you have George Eder & wife (Brumbaugh) and George Ester & wife (Bomberger), Henry Eler & wife (Brumbaugh) and Henry Aeller & wife (Bomberger), Henry Elder (Brumbaugh) and Henry Ester (Bomberger). Not even the German Baptist Brethren scribes could get the spellings right. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of N. H. Goodman Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 4:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Bigler at Little Conewago Yes Marilyn, according to Mark Biglers will in 1787, his daughter Elizabeth was the wife of Henry Eller. I am a descendant of Mark Biglers son Jacob, and I am just beginning to gather information on his other children and their descendants. It looks like the Eller line has been well researched. I am puzzled though that Mark also names in his will a granddaughter, Elizabeth Etter. Is there also an Etter line, or is this a transcription error? I have a photo copy of the recorded will and the names Eller and Etter are very clearly not the same name. It has been thought that this Elizabeth was the daughter of Henry and Elizabeth Eller. They did have a daughter Elizabeth, but she was married to Christian Herter about 1774. So who is Elizabeth Etter? N. H. Goodman