Evening, It as been some time since last I made one of my Brethren newspaper offerings. This is the first time I will be posting to the Miami county, Ohio mailing list and if the list moderator for that group does not wish the list to continue receiving these postings, notify me please. This posting of The Primitive Christian of 1882, which can be found at http://offering.brethrenarchives.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://offering.brethrenarchives.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=arti cle&id=731:the-primitive-christian-offering-107&catid=38:2011&Itemid=57> &view=article&id=731:the-primitive-christian-offering-107&catid=38:2011&Item id=57, contains articles entitled: Work for District Meetings; Editorial Notes; From Indiana; From Clinton County, Indiana; From Hagerstown, Indiana; Sad Accident; From Redding, Iowa; From Beaver Creek, Maryland; From Indian Creek, Iowa; From the Wooster Church, Ohio; Mill Creek Church, Adams County, Illinois; From Sugar Creek, Indiana; To the Brotherhood; From Nickerson, Reno Co., Kansas; From Cedar Co., Iowa and Notices. There has been a major revision/addition of the Montgomery County, Ohio Digital Archives site with many records added during the past month. You can read of this be visiting http://montgomery.brethrenarchives.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://montgomery.brethrenarchives.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=ar ticle&id=2:newsflash-1&catid=3:newsflash> &view=article&id=2:newsflash-1&catid=3:newsflash. The Montgomery county web site has been well received by all accounts with, at times, there being as many as a dozen or so people using it at any one time. And it has been noticed that there have been over the scant several months of its release, many, many views of what is available for general viewing. Things are progressing well with the index volunteers. Donna St. Felix of Montgomery county, Ohio has volunteered to index the fourth marriage docket and Janice Buker of Washington has volunteered to index the 1900 Directory of Bedford County, Pennsylvania. Meanwhile, the Brethren Ministers & Congregations project is proceeding slow but surely. Cordially, A. Wayne Webb

Hello all, It came to my attention in mid to late February that FOBG had a problem with the post office re mail being forwarded to Ron McAdams while they are in Florida for the winter. Many who sent in their membership renewals were surprised to find their check returned and contacted us to ask about it. The problem has been corrected and those who received a returned check may now resubmit to the usual address. Please expect a bit of a delay in receiving confirmation on your renewal. The next issue of BRETHREN ROOTS is due to be in the mail mid-April. Information on FOBG annual meeting should be included in this issue. Long time members may have noticed that we have found it necessary to slightly change the mailing schedule for the quarterly publication. Also, I should mention that my e-mail address should now be stable. [1][email protected] It has been quite a fun (?) time to bring everything into line with new computer, etc. Please remember that now is the time to submit your name if you are interested in volunteering to help with the administration of FOBG and Brethren Roots. Submit your name to [2][email protected] This year's meeting in Grand Rapids, Michigan on July 2, 2011 promises to be worth your effort to be there. Expect further details later. Blessings to all, Bonita Rogers, Editor, BRETHREN ROOTS _________________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected]

Bill, The two orphans court entries are easy to reconcile. On March 5, 1755, Elizabeth Frantz (daughter of Baltzar) was not yet married. She married Michael Kitch on June 3, 1755. (Source: Bindnagel Evangelical Lutheran Church Records). When the orphans court reconvened on June 10, 1755, she was the wife (of one week) of Michael Kitch. Dwayne Wrightsman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Thomas Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Dwayne: Thanks for the information. I did find several Orphan Court Records for Baltzer Frantz (two). Based on that information, and an obituary of one of his son's named George Adam Frantz from Elizabeth Township, I believe the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is the son of Baltzar. I should also point out that a 6/10/1755 Orphan court record for Baltzar also lists a daughter Anna Maria Frantz, who is named as the wife of Michael Frantz. Based on your 2006 MFH article on the Frantz family that would appear to be Michael the s/o Christian I. The Orphan Court records are from a book of Lancaster County Orphan Court abstracts (1742-1767). If so, that would make them first cousins. What concerns me is the previous Orphan Court record is dated 3/5/1755. In this record, Elizabeth is listed as a minor child but above age 14. In the June record, it lists her husband. So she was both a minor child and married....not sure if that makes sense or not. It may be due to a poor quality transcription of the actual record. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Bill, Now I suspect that I need to make another correction. I'm unsure about the generations of the successive Hans/John Frantz men. One of them married a Hostetter, but I'm not at all confident it was the one who died in 1787, so please don't put much stock into the details of what I wrote below. However, I will stick with my basic contention that the John Frantz of Manor Township was a descendant of Hans Frantz who immigrated in 1717. Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I suspect that I need to make a correction in what I wrote in the message below. The John Frantz of Manor who married Elizabeth Hostetter and died in 1787, may have been the son of the John Frantz of Manor who died in 1767, who in turn may have been the son of the 1717 immigrant Hans Frantz (death date unknown, but probably very early on). So I think I left out a generation. Also I forgot to say that the John Frantz who died in 1787 was the father of Christian Frantz who was a well known Mennonite minister in Lancaster County. Dwayne Wrightsman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Bill, If I were just making a guess, it would be that you have two different John Frantz men. I think the John Frantz (died 1787) of Manor Township was a Mennonite who was married to Elizabeth Hostetter. and who had a brother named Jacob who also married a Hostetter. John and Jacob were probably from the line of Hans Frantz (immigrant ca. 1717). This immigrant Hans Frantz is alleged to have been the brother of Christian Frantz I, Michael Frantz I, and Balzar Frantz. Balzar immigrated in 1727, the same year as Michael I. Balzar's oldest son was also named John and he may have been born about 1728. I don't know if he was the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township, and I don't know who he married. My source for the John Frantz of Manor Township is Lorrraine Frantz Edwards, "Frantz Families - Kith & Kin," Volume 1, 1996, pp. 49-51. Lorraine leans heavily on old letters and on the research of Ruth Frantz Rhinehart who believes that John's father, John (Hans) Frantz also died in Manor Township, in 1767. Ruth says that when the son John Frantz bought land in Donegal Township in 1769 he was of Manor Township. All four of the Frantz immigrants had sons named John. For years, the Brethren Frantzes thought that the John Frantz who married Elizabeth Hostetter was a son of Michael Frantz II; now you suspect that he might have been connected to Balzar; but I think he was in the line of Hans Frantz the Mennonite who immigrated long before his "brothers." I don't know if any of these Johns connect with your Thommens. Good luck! Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Thomas Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I have been trying to find info on a Frantz family that lived in Elizabeth and Manor Townships of Lancaster County, PA. I found some info from Dwayne Wrightsman in the archives, and this helped me in my search. The specific person of interest is a John Frantz, who is likely the John Frantz who died about 1787 in Manor Township. This is what I have pieced together, and would appreciate any feedback. 1. A John Frantz and wife Elizabeth purchased property on 5/23/1750, along Conoy Creek, in what appears to be present day West Donegal Township. The property was purchased shortly before this time on 3/8/1750, by Adam Thomas and his wife Veronica. 2. I believe Adam is the Adam Thommen who lived along Beaver Creek in present day Providence Township (then Martic), who died about 1762. Adam had a daughter Elizabeth, and I suspect she was the wife of John Frantz (the short hold time indicates that Adam may have bought the property for his daughter). 3. Everything points to Adam Thommen being Mennonite, since his property on Beaver Creek was part of a large property purchase by Mennonite Martin Kendig in 1717, and Mennonites Martin Bare and Henry Herr were executors of his Will. Many of his descendents were Mennonite as well. 4. John Frantz then sold the Conoy Creek property in 1760 to Mary Horsch, the widow of Jacob Horsch. I believe Jacob was the son of Jacob Horsh and Barbara Schenk, who were Mennonite. 5. A John Frantz is found in Manor Township in the 1771 through 1779 tax lists, and John Frantz has a 1787 Will filed in Manor Township. 6. John appears to be the son of Balzar Frantz. Balzar had a 1733 warrant for property along Pequa Creek. Beaver Creek flows into Pequa Creek near Adam Thommen, and two of Adam's grandchildren lived in Pequa Township. 7. Balzar Frantz is said to have been married to an Anna Barbara, and both were baptized by Michael Frantz of the German Baptist Conestoga congregation around 1738. 8. I have found info that states that Balzar was the brother of German Baptist Elder Michael Frantz (source includes European tax records). 9. Balzar apparently died about 1742, since an Anna Barbara Frantz filed a 6/13/1743 warrant for property on Cocalico Creek. She filed a second warrant for the same property on 11/19/1747. This property was adjacent Henry Landis and very close to Rudolph Bollinger, both German Baptists, and very close to Ephrata. She may have wanted to leave Mennonite Pequa for German Baptist Ephrata to raise her children. 10. John Frantz had a son John Frantz and a brother Abraham Frantz. Abraham had a 1757 warrant for a property along Mill Creek in Elizabeth Township. John Frantz is found living on that same property and is in the tax lists of Elizabeth Township from 1771 through 1782. He is also listed in a 1786 Elizabeth Township property record as well. 11. This second John Frantz was the executor in the 1770 Will of Jacob Thommen of Elizabeth Township. Jacob's Will refers to John Frantz as his neighbor. This property was very close to the property of Mennonite Michael Schenk (later owned by son Martin Schenk). Michael Schenk also had property near by in Warwick Township. 12. Jacob Thommen is likely Joggi Thommen who immigrated with his wife Barbara Handschin from Holstein Switzerland in 1749. He would have been close to 90 years old when he died. I suspect Joggi was also Mennonite. 13. John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is not likely the son of Abraham Frantz, who lists only two sons (Abraham & Adam) in his 1770 will. 14. The Will of John Frantz of Manor Township lists Jacob Frantz executor, and Jacob Frantz is listed in the 1782 Manor Township tax (not John). I have a two questions: 1. Does anyone have any reliable information on the John Frantz of Manor Township? 2. Could John Frantz of Manor Township and John Frantz of Elizabeth Township be the same person (owning property in both places and thus paying taxes in both places, but living in Elizabeth Township? Bill Thomas

Dwayne: Thanks for the information. I did find several Orphan Court Records for Baltzer Frantz (two). Based on that information, and an obituary of one of his son's named George Adam Frantz from Elizabeth Township, I believe the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is the son of Baltzar. I should also point out that a 6/10/1755 Orphan court record for Baltzar also lists a daughter Anna Maria Frantz, who is named as the wife of Michael Frantz. Based on your 2006 MFH article on the Frantz family that would appear to be Michael the s/o Christian I. The Orphan Court records are from a book of Lancaster County Orphan Court abstracts (1742-1767). If so, that would make them first cousins. What concerns me is the previous Orphan Court record is dated 3/5/1755. In this record, Elizabeth is listed as a minor child but above age 14. In the June record, it lists her husband. So she was both a minor child and married....not sure if that makes sense or not. It may be due to a poor quality transcription of the actual record. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Bill, Now I suspect that I need to make another correction. I'm unsure about the generations of the successive Hans/John Frantz men. One of them married a Hostetter, but I'm not at all confident it was the one who died in 1787, so please don't put much stock into the details of what I wrote below. However, I will stick with my basic contention that the John Frantz of Manor Township was a descendant of Hans Frantz who immigrated in 1717. Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I suspect that I need to make a correction in what I wrote in the message below. The John Frantz of Manor who married Elizabeth Hostetter and died in 1787, may have been the son of the John Frantz of Manor who died in 1767, who in turn may have been the son of the 1717 immigrant Hans Frantz (death date unknown, but probably very early on). So I think I left out a generation. Also I forgot to say that the John Frantz who died in 1787 was the father of Christian Frantz who was a well known Mennonite minister in Lancaster County. Dwayne Wrightsman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Bill, If I were just making a guess, it would be that you have two different John Frantz men. I think the John Frantz (died 1787) of Manor Township was a Mennonite who was married to Elizabeth Hostetter. and who had a brother named Jacob who also married a Hostetter. John and Jacob were probably from the line of Hans Frantz (immigrant ca. 1717). This immigrant Hans Frantz is alleged to have been the brother of Christian Frantz I, Michael Frantz I, and Balzar Frantz. Balzar immigrated in 1727, the same year as Michael I. Balzar's oldest son was also named John and he may have been born about 1728. I don't know if he was the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township, and I don't know who he married. My source for the John Frantz of Manor Township is Lorrraine Frantz Edwards, "Frantz Families - Kith & Kin," Volume 1, 1996, pp. 49-51. Lorraine leans heavily on old letters and on the research of Ruth Frantz Rhinehart who believes that John's father, John (Hans) Frantz also died in Manor Township, in 1767. Ruth says that when the son John Frantz bought land in Donegal Township in 1769 he was of Manor Township. All four of the Frantz immigrants had sons named John. For years, the Brethren Frantzes thought that the John Frantz who married Elizabeth Hostetter was a son of Michael Frantz II; now you suspect that he might have been connected to Balzar; but I think he was in the line of Hans Frantz the Mennonite who immigrated long before his "brothers." I don't know if any of these Johns connect with your Thommens. Good luck! Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Thomas Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I have been trying to find info on a Frantz family that lived in Elizabeth and Manor Townships of Lancaster County, PA. I found some info from Dwayne Wrightsman in the archives, and this helped me in my search. The specific person of interest is a John Frantz, who is likely the John Frantz who died about 1787 in Manor Township. This is what I have pieced together, and would appreciate any feedback. 1. A John Frantz and wife Elizabeth purchased property on 5/23/1750, along Conoy Creek, in what appears to be present day West Donegal Township. The property was purchased shortly before this time on 3/8/1750, by Adam Thomas and his wife Veronica. 2. I believe Adam is the Adam Thommen who lived along Beaver Creek in present day Providence Township (then Martic), who died about 1762. Adam had a daughter Elizabeth, and I suspect she was the wife of John Frantz (the short hold time indicates that Adam may have bought the property for his daughter). 3. Everything points to Adam Thommen being Mennonite, since his property on Beaver Creek was part of a large property purchase by Mennonite Martin Kendig in 1717, and Mennonites Martin Bare and Henry Herr were executors of his Will. Many of his descendents were Mennonite as well. 4. John Frantz then sold the Conoy Creek property in 1760 to Mary Horsch, the widow of Jacob Horsch. I believe Jacob was the son of Jacob Horsh and Barbara Schenk, who were Mennonite. 5. A John Frantz is found in Manor Township in the 1771 through 1779 tax lists, and John Frantz has a 1787 Will filed in Manor Township. 6. John appears to be the son of Balzar Frantz. Balzar had a 1733 warrant for property along Pequa Creek. Beaver Creek flows into Pequa Creek near Adam Thommen, and two of Adam's grandchildren lived in Pequa Township. 7. Balzar Frantz is said to have been married to an Anna Barbara, and both were baptized by Michael Frantz of the German Baptist Conestoga congregation around 1738. 8. I have found info that states that Balzar was the brother of German Baptist Elder Michael Frantz (source includes European tax records). 9. Balzar apparently died about 1742, since an Anna Barbara Frantz filed a 6/13/1743 warrant for property on Cocalico Creek. She filed a second warrant for the same property on 11/19/1747. This property was adjacent Henry Landis and very close to Rudolph Bollinger, both German Baptists, and very close to Ephrata. She may have wanted to leave Mennonite Pequa for German Baptist Ephrata to raise her children. 10. John Frantz had a son John Frantz and a brother Abraham Frantz. Abraham had a 1757 warrant for a property along Mill Creek in Elizabeth Township. John Frantz is found living on that same property and is in the tax lists of Elizabeth Township from 1771 through 1782. He is also listed in a 1786 Elizabeth Township property record as well. 11. This second John Frantz was the executor in the 1770 Will of Jacob Thommen of Elizabeth Township. Jacob's Will refers to John Frantz as his neighbor. This property was very close to the property of Mennonite Michael Schenk (later owned by son Martin Schenk). Michael Schenk also had property near by in Warwick Township. 12. Jacob Thommen is likely Joggi Thommen who immigrated with his wife Barbara Handschin from Holstein Switzerland in 1749. He would have been close to 90 years old when he died. I suspect Joggi was also Mennonite. 13. John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is not likely the son of Abraham Frantz, who lists only two sons (Abraham & Adam) in his 1770 will. 14. The Will of John Frantz of Manor Township lists Jacob Frantz executor, and Jacob Frantz is listed in the 1782 Manor Township tax (not John). I have a two questions: 1. Does anyone have any reliable information on the John Frantz of Manor Township? 2. Could John Frantz of Manor Township and John Frantz of Elizabeth Township be the same person (owning property in both places and thus paying taxes in both places, but living in Elizabeth Township? Bill Thomas ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm looking for a picture of Daniel Holsinger who died in 1902 in his 97th year.  His obituary said he was a deacon in the Brethren church for over 50 years. Also I'd be interested in a picture of his wife Catherine, with whom he was married for over 60 years.   Richard 

Bill, Now I suspect that I need to make another correction. I'm unsure about the generations of the successive Hans/John Frantz men. One of them married a Hostetter, but I'm not at all confident it was the one who died in 1787, so please don't put much stock into the details of what I wrote below. However, I will stick with my basic contention that the John Frantz of Manor Township was a descendant of Hans Frantz who immigrated in 1717. Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I suspect that I need to make a correction in what I wrote in the message below. The John Frantz of Manor who married Elizabeth Hostetter and died in 1787, may have been the son of the John Frantz of Manor who died in 1767, who in turn may have been the son of the 1717 immigrant Hans Frantz (death date unknown, but probably very early on). So I think I left out a generation. Also I forgot to say that the John Frantz who died in 1787 was the father of Christian Frantz who was a well known Mennonite minister in Lancaster County. Dwayne Wrightsman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Bill, If I were just making a guess, it would be that you have two different John Frantz men. I think the John Frantz (died 1787) of Manor Township was a Mennonite who was married to Elizabeth Hostetter. and who had a brother named Jacob who also married a Hostetter. John and Jacob were probably from the line of Hans Frantz (immigrant ca. 1717). This immigrant Hans Frantz is alleged to have been the brother of Christian Frantz I, Michael Frantz I, and Balzar Frantz. Balzar immigrated in 1727, the same year as Michael I. Balzar's oldest son was also named John and he may have been born about 1728. I don't know if he was the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township, and I don't know who he married. My source for the John Frantz of Manor Township is Lorrraine Frantz Edwards, "Frantz Families - Kith & Kin," Volume 1, 1996, pp. 49-51. Lorraine leans heavily on old letters and on the research of Ruth Frantz Rhinehart who believes that John's father, John (Hans) Frantz also died in Manor Township, in 1767. Ruth says that when the son John Frantz bought land in Donegal Township in 1769 he was of Manor Township. All four of the Frantz immigrants had sons named John. For years, the Brethren Frantzes thought that the John Frantz who married Elizabeth Hostetter was a son of Michael Frantz II; now you suspect that he might have been connected to Balzar; but I think he was in the line of Hans Frantz the Mennonite who immigrated long before his "brothers." I don't know if any of these Johns connect with your Thommens. Good luck! Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Thomas Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I have been trying to find info on a Frantz family that lived in Elizabeth and Manor Townships of Lancaster County, PA. I found some info from Dwayne Wrightsman in the archives, and this helped me in my search. The specific person of interest is a John Frantz, who is likely the John Frantz who died about 1787 in Manor Township. This is what I have pieced together, and would appreciate any feedback. 1. A John Frantz and wife Elizabeth purchased property on 5/23/1750, along Conoy Creek, in what appears to be present day West Donegal Township. The property was purchased shortly before this time on 3/8/1750, by Adam Thomas and his wife Veronica. 2. I believe Adam is the Adam Thommen who lived along Beaver Creek in present day Providence Township (then Martic), who died about 1762. Adam had a daughter Elizabeth, and I suspect she was the wife of John Frantz (the short hold time indicates that Adam may have bought the property for his daughter). 3. Everything points to Adam Thommen being Mennonite, since his property on Beaver Creek was part of a large property purchase by Mennonite Martin Kendig in 1717, and Mennonites Martin Bare and Henry Herr were executors of his Will. Many of his descendents were Mennonite as well. 4. John Frantz then sold the Conoy Creek property in 1760 to Mary Horsch, the widow of Jacob Horsch. I believe Jacob was the son of Jacob Horsh and Barbara Schenk, who were Mennonite. 5. A John Frantz is found in Manor Township in the 1771 through 1779 tax lists, and John Frantz has a 1787 Will filed in Manor Township. 6. John appears to be the son of Balzar Frantz. Balzar had a 1733 warrant for property along Pequa Creek. Beaver Creek flows into Pequa Creek near Adam Thommen, and two of Adam's grandchildren lived in Pequa Township. 7. Balzar Frantz is said to have been married to an Anna Barbara, and both were baptized by Michael Frantz of the German Baptist Conestoga congregation around 1738. 8. I have found info that states that Balzar was the brother of German Baptist Elder Michael Frantz (source includes European tax records). 9. Balzar apparently died about 1742, since an Anna Barbara Frantz filed a 6/13/1743 warrant for property on Cocalico Creek. She filed a second warrant for the same property on 11/19/1747. This property was adjacent Henry Landis and very close to Rudolph Bollinger, both German Baptists, and very close to Ephrata. She may have wanted to leave Mennonite Pequa for German Baptist Ephrata to raise her children. 10. John Frantz had a son John Frantz and a brother Abraham Frantz. Abraham had a 1757 warrant for a property along Mill Creek in Elizabeth Township. John Frantz is found living on that same property and is in the tax lists of Elizabeth Township from 1771 through 1782. He is also listed in a 1786 Elizabeth Township property record as well. 11. This second John Frantz was the executor in the 1770 Will of Jacob Thommen of Elizabeth Township. Jacob's Will refers to John Frantz as his neighbor. This property was very close to the property of Mennonite Michael Schenk (later owned by son Martin Schenk). Michael Schenk also had property near by in Warwick Township. 12. Jacob Thommen is likely Joggi Thommen who immigrated with his wife Barbara Handschin from Holstein Switzerland in 1749. He would have been close to 90 years old when he died. I suspect Joggi was also Mennonite. 13. John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is not likely the son of Abraham Frantz, who lists only two sons (Abraham & Adam) in his 1770 will. 14. The Will of John Frantz of Manor Township lists Jacob Frantz executor, and Jacob Frantz is listed in the 1782 Manor Township tax (not John). I have a two questions: 1. Does anyone have any reliable information on the John Frantz of Manor Township? 2. Could John Frantz of Manor Township and John Frantz of Elizabeth Township be the same person (owning property in both places and thus paying taxes in both places, but living in Elizabeth Township? Bill Thomas

I suspect that I need to make a correction in what I wrote in the message below. The John Frantz of Manor who married Elizabeth Hostetter and died in 1787, may have been the son of the John Frantz of Manor who died in 1767, who in turn may have been the son of the 1717 immigrant Hans Frantz (death date unknown, but probably very early on). So I think I left out a generation. Also I forgot to say that the John Frantz who died in 1787 was the father of Christian Frantz who was a well known Mennonite minister in Lancaster County. Dwayne Wrightsman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships Bill, If I were just making a guess, it would be that you have two different John Frantz men. I think the John Frantz (died 1787) of Manor Township was a Mennonite who was married to Elizabeth Hostetter. and who had a brother named Jacob who also married a Hostetter. John and Jacob were probably from the line of Hans Frantz (immigrant ca. 1717). This immigrant Hans Frantz is alleged to have been the brother of Christian Frantz I, Michael Frantz I, and Balzar Frantz. Balzar immigrated in 1727, the same year as Michael I. Balzar's oldest son was also named John and he may have been born about 1728. I don't know if he was the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township, and I don't know who he married. My source for the John Frantz of Manor Township is Lorrraine Frantz Edwards, "Frantz Families - Kith & Kin," Volume 1, 1996, pp. 49-51. Lorraine leans heavily on old letters and on the research of Ruth Frantz Rhinehart who believes that John's father, John (Hans) Frantz also died in Manor Township, in 1767. Ruth says that when the son John Frantz bought land in Donegal Township in 1769 he was of Manor Township. All four of the Frantz immigrants had sons named John. For years, the Brethren Frantzes thought that the John Frantz who married Elizabeth Hostetter was a son of Michael Frantz II; now you suspect that he might have been connected to Balzar; but I think he was in the line of Hans Frantz the Mennonite who immigrated long before his "brothers." I don't know if any of these Johns connect with your Thommens. Good luck! Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Thomas Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I have been trying to find info on a Frantz family that lived in Elizabeth and Manor Townships of Lancaster County, PA. I found some info from Dwayne Wrightsman in the archives, and this helped me in my search. The specific person of interest is a John Frantz, who is likely the John Frantz who died about 1787 in Manor Township. This is what I have pieced together, and would appreciate any feedback. 1. A John Frantz and wife Elizabeth purchased property on 5/23/1750, along Conoy Creek, in what appears to be present day West Donegal Township. The property was purchased shortly before this time on 3/8/1750, by Adam Thomas and his wife Veronica. 2. I believe Adam is the Adam Thommen who lived along Beaver Creek in present day Providence Township (then Martic), who died about 1762. Adam had a daughter Elizabeth, and I suspect she was the wife of John Frantz (the short hold time indicates that Adam may have bought the property for his daughter). 3. Everything points to Adam Thommen being Mennonite, since his property on Beaver Creek was part of a large property purchase by Mennonite Martin Kendig in 1717, and Mennonites Martin Bare and Henry Herr were executors of his Will. Many of his descendents were Mennonite as well. 4. John Frantz then sold the Conoy Creek property in 1760 to Mary Horsch, the widow of Jacob Horsch. I believe Jacob was the son of Jacob Horsh and Barbara Schenk, who were Mennonite. 5. A John Frantz is found in Manor Township in the 1771 through 1779 tax lists, and John Frantz has a 1787 Will filed in Manor Township. 6. John appears to be the son of Balzar Frantz. Balzar had a 1733 warrant for property along Pequa Creek. Beaver Creek flows into Pequa Creek near Adam Thommen, and two of Adam's grandchildren lived in Pequa Township. 7. Balzar Frantz is said to have been married to an Anna Barbara, and both were baptized by Michael Frantz of the German Baptist Conestoga congregation around 1738. 8. I have found info that states that Balzar was the brother of German Baptist Elder Michael Frantz (source includes European tax records). 9. Balzar apparently died about 1742, since an Anna Barbara Frantz filed a 6/13/1743 warrant for property on Cocalico Creek. She filed a second warrant for the same property on 11/19/1747. This property was adjacent Henry Landis and very close to Rudolph Bollinger, both German Baptists, and very close to Ephrata. She may have wanted to leave Mennonite Pequa for German Baptist Ephrata to raise her children. 10. John Frantz had a son John Frantz and a brother Abraham Frantz. Abraham had a 1757 warrant for a property along Mill Creek in Elizabeth Township. John Frantz is found living on that same property and is in the tax lists of Elizabeth Township from 1771 through 1782. He is also listed in a 1786 Elizabeth Township property record as well. 11. This second John Frantz was the executor in the 1770 Will of Jacob Thommen of Elizabeth Township. Jacob's Will refers to John Frantz as his neighbor. This property was very close to the property of Mennonite Michael Schenk (later owned by son Martin Schenk). Michael Schenk also had property near by in Warwick Township. 12. Jacob Thommen is likely Joggi Thommen who immigrated with his wife Barbara Handschin from Holstein Switzerland in 1749. He would have been close to 90 years old when he died. I suspect Joggi was also Mennonite. 13. John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is not likely the son of Abraham Frantz, who lists only two sons (Abraham & Adam) in his 1770 will. 14. The Will of John Frantz of Manor Township lists Jacob Frantz executor, and Jacob Frantz is listed in the 1782 Manor Township tax (not John). I have a two questions: 1. Does anyone have any reliable information on the John Frantz of Manor Township? 2. Could John Frantz of Manor Township and John Frantz of Elizabeth Township be the same person (owning property in both places and thus paying taxes in both places, but living in Elizabeth Township? Bill Thomas ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bill, If I were just making a guess, it would be that you have two different John Frantz men. I think the John Frantz (died 1787) of Manor Township was a Mennonite who was married to Elizabeth Hostetter. and who had a brother named Jacob who also married a Hostetter. John and Jacob were probably from the line of Hans Frantz (immigrant ca. 1717). This immigrant Hans Frantz is alleged to have been the brother of Christian Frantz I, Michael Frantz I, and Balzar Frantz. Balzar immigrated in 1727, the same year as Michael I. Balzar's oldest son was also named John and he may have been born about 1728. I don't know if he was the John Frantz of Elizabeth Township, and I don't know who he married. My source for the John Frantz of Manor Township is Lorrraine Frantz Edwards, "Frantz Families - Kith & Kin," Volume 1, 1996, pp. 49-51. Lorraine leans heavily on old letters and on the research of Ruth Frantz Rhinehart who believes that John's father, John (Hans) Frantz also died in Manor Township, in 1767. Ruth says that when the son John Frantz bought land in Donegal Township in 1769 he was of Manor Township. All four of the Frantz immigrants had sons named John. For years, the Brethren Frantzes thought that the John Frantz who married Elizabeth Hostetter was a son of Michael Frantz II; now you suspect that he might have been connected to Balzar; but I think he was in the line of Hans Frantz the Mennonite who immigrated long before his "brothers." I don't know if any of these Johns connect with your Thommens. Good luck! Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Thomas Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BRE] Frantz Family of Manor & Elizabeth Townships I have been trying to find info on a Frantz family that lived in Elizabeth and Manor Townships of Lancaster County, PA. I found some info from Dwayne Wrightsman in the archives, and this helped me in my search. The specific person of interest is a John Frantz, who is likely the John Frantz who died about 1787 in Manor Township. This is what I have pieced together, and would appreciate any feedback. 1. A John Frantz and wife Elizabeth purchased property on 5/23/1750, along Conoy Creek, in what appears to be present day West Donegal Township. The property was purchased shortly before this time on 3/8/1750, by Adam Thomas and his wife Veronica. 2. I believe Adam is the Adam Thommen who lived along Beaver Creek in present day Providence Township (then Martic), who died about 1762. Adam had a daughter Elizabeth, and I suspect she was the wife of John Frantz (the short hold time indicates that Adam may have bought the property for his daughter). 3. Everything points to Adam Thommen being Mennonite, since his property on Beaver Creek was part of a large property purchase by Mennonite Martin Kendig in 1717, and Mennonites Martin Bare and Henry Herr were executors of his Will. Many of his descendents were Mennonite as well. 4. John Frantz then sold the Conoy Creek property in 1760 to Mary Horsch, the widow of Jacob Horsch. I believe Jacob was the son of Jacob Horsh and Barbara Schenk, who were Mennonite. 5. A John Frantz is found in Manor Township in the 1771 through 1779 tax lists, and John Frantz has a 1787 Will filed in Manor Township. 6. John appears to be the son of Balzar Frantz. Balzar had a 1733 warrant for property along Pequa Creek. Beaver Creek flows into Pequa Creek near Adam Thommen, and two of Adam's grandchildren lived in Pequa Township. 7. Balzar Frantz is said to have been married to an Anna Barbara, and both were baptized by Michael Frantz of the German Baptist Conestoga congregation around 1738. 8. I have found info that states that Balzar was the brother of German Baptist Elder Michael Frantz (source includes European tax records). 9. Balzar apparently died about 1742, since an Anna Barbara Frantz filed a 6/13/1743 warrant for property on Cocalico Creek. She filed a second warrant for the same property on 11/19/1747. This property was adjacent Henry Landis and very close to Rudolph Bollinger, both German Baptists, and very close to Ephrata. She may have wanted to leave Mennonite Pequa for German Baptist Ephrata to raise her children. 10. John Frantz had a son John Frantz and a brother Abraham Frantz. Abraham had a 1757 warrant for a property along Mill Creek in Elizabeth Township. John Frantz is found living on that same property and is in the tax lists of Elizabeth Township from 1771 through 1782. He is also listed in a 1786 Elizabeth Township property record as well. 11. This second John Frantz was the executor in the 1770 Will of Jacob Thommen of Elizabeth Township. Jacob's Will refers to John Frantz as his neighbor. This property was very close to the property of Mennonite Michael Schenk (later owned by son Martin Schenk). Michael Schenk also had property near by in Warwick Township. 12. Jacob Thommen is likely Joggi Thommen who immigrated with his wife Barbara Handschin from Holstein Switzerland in 1749. He would have been close to 90 years old when he died. I suspect Joggi was also Mennonite. 13. John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is not likely the son of Abraham Frantz, who lists only two sons (Abraham & Adam) in his 1770 will. 14. The Will of John Frantz of Manor Township lists Jacob Frantz executor, and Jacob Frantz is listed in the 1782 Manor Township tax (not John). I have a two questions: 1. Does anyone have any reliable information on the John Frantz of Manor Township? 2. Could John Frantz of Manor Township and John Frantz of Elizabeth Township be the same person (owning property in both places and thus paying taxes in both places, but living in Elizabeth Township? Bill Thomas

I don't have the published book on Martin Miller by Floyd Mason. Rather, I have one of the original transcripts that was reviewed by Dr. Bittinger prior to publication. The books lists the following: (Hans) Johann "Michael" Miller b 10-5-1692 d 1771, m Susanna Agnes Berchtol (Bechtel) b 5-3-1688, da Hans Berchtol & Anna Christina, m-2 Elizabeth Gerber, widow of Nicholas Gerber. He was the son of Johan Michael Miller & Irene Charitas, the father Johann m-2, Anna Loysa Regina; after Johan died 1695, Anna Loysa Miller, in 1696 m-2 Hans Jacob Stutzman. They then were the parents of Jacob Stutsman II b 1706 d 1773. Ludowich Miller b c1724 d 1792 to Barbara _________. He was one of three brothers who owned the land resurveyed to them by their father in 1752 called Ash Swamp. He then bought 150 acres of land to the south called Toms Chance. This land was adjacent to Ash Swamp. In 1761 he sold Toms Chance to Peter Tysher and bought several small farms on Meadow Branch, just off of Big Pipe Creek in what is today Carroll Co., MD. It was a farm of 212 acres and here he raised his big family of 14 children. We have had trouble finding the names of all their children. ChB Jacob Miller b. 1748 d. 1815 came to the Shenandoah Co., VA ca 1782. He m-1 Anna Martha Wine and they had 8 children. He then M-2 Mrs. Frances Bargelbaugh Kagey. Martin Miller b. 1780 d. 1852 m-1 Esther Bowman b. 1783 d. 1844 da Joseph & Esther Becktol, m-2 Catherine Brillhart. He was a farmer and lived near Bridgewater, VA. He moved to Shenandoah Co., VA after his second marriage and died there. ChB You might want to locate a copy of the Fellowship of Brethren Genealogists Newsletter V4 #2, 1972 for more information on the Miller family. Martin and Esther are my 4th Great-Grandparents. Kim Garrison Weyers Cave, VA > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 00:10:54 -0500 > Subject: [BRE] Miller and Bowman lines > > I am still searching for the exact parentage of Martin Miller (1780-Oct.30, 1852), married 1) Esther Bowman (daughter of Joseph Bowman and Esther Bechtel); m. 2) Catherine Brillhart. Martin and Esther lived near Bridgewater, VA; he was a minister in the Beaver Creek CoB near there. They had 9 children: Magdalen, Elizabeth (Betsy) (m. John Early), Esther, Jacob, Susan, Samuel, Daniel, John M. and Joseph. (I am descended from Elizabeth and John Early. I cannot find the burial place of Martin and Elizabeth. After Elizabeth died, he moved to the Roanoke area where he is found in the 1850 census with wife Catherine. > > In Emmert Bittinger's "Descendants of Jacob Bowman, Sr., Part III, Mennonite Family History Vol XVIL Nunmber 1, January 1998, pp. 32-39, he writes "Esther Bowman, b. 1783; d. 1855; m. Mar 8, 1803 to Martin Miller, active and well-known Brethren Minister of the Beaver Creek congregation, and a traveling companion of Elder John Kline. They had 9 children. > > However, there is a problem. In the book, "Life of John Kline, 1797-1864, by Benjamin Funk, I have found Martin's name in the index and read the pages listed (He is named as Martain Miller). The dates given for his travels with John Kline (except for the first two) were after Martin Miller had died in 1852. (There are entries up to 1862). This has to be another Martin Miller! (It would be nice if I could claim my Miller ancestor traveled with John Kline to Annual Meetings and on preaching journeys!) > > Martin Miller and wife Esther Bowman are listed in Floyd Mason's Michael Miller book on page 60; however, I do not have preceeding pages to give me Martin's or Esther's parentage. If anyone can give me more background on Martin Miller's or Esther Bowman's correct ancestry line, it would be greatly appreciated! > > Doris Dibert > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just thought that I would let people on the list know that the LDS people have a website that has a searchable index for many original records, including marriage records for Montgomery Co., OH. Here is the URL. FamilySearch Record Search (use IE) http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html It's better to use Internet Explorer when using the site, rather than FireFox, etc. I believe that it's a Java-related issue but I'm not 100% certain about that. The website is a pilot project, and will be folded into their regular database as time goes on. Some records already have migrated out of the pilot project site and are not available there, so it's best to also check the beta version of the Familysearch.org site, using the "Try it out" button at the top of the web page. There are an amazing number of records on the site, and it has been a big help in my research. The search engine can be a little finicky, but that would be one of the few reservations that I have. I hadn't mentioned this site before because I had assumed that folks on the list would know about it since the LDS people are well-known in the genealogy community, but it may be that fewer people know about this new project than what I had assumed. David Myers ____________________________________________________________ Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210

I have been trying to find info on a Frantz family that lived in Elizabeth and Manor Townships of Lancaster County, PA. I found some info from Dwayne Wrightsman in the archives, and this helped me in my search. The specific person of interest is a John Frantz, who is likely the John Frantz who died about 1787 in Manor Township. This is what I have pieced together, and would appreciate any feedback. 1. A John Frantz and wife Elizabeth purchased property on 5/23/1750, along Conoy Creek, in what appears to be present day West Donegal Township. The property was purchased shortly before this time on 3/8/1750, by Adam Thomas and his wife Veronica. 2. I believe Adam is the Adam Thommen who lived along Beaver Creek in present day Providence Township (then Martic), who died about 1762. Adam had a daughter Elizabeth, and I suspect she was the wife of John Frantz (the short hold time indicates that Adam may have bought the property for his daughter). 3. Everything points to Adam Thommen being Mennonite, since his property on Beaver Creek was part of a large property purchase by Mennonite Martin Kendig in 1717, and Mennonites Martin Bare and Henry Herr were executors of his Will. Many of his descendents were Mennonite as well. 4. John Frantz then sold the Conoy Creek property in 1760 to Mary Horsch, the widow of Jacob Horsch. I believe Jacob was the son of Jacob Horsh and Barbara Schenk, who were Mennonite. 5. A John Frantz is found in Manor Township in the 1771 through 1779 tax lists, and John Frantz has a 1787 Will filed in Manor Township. 6. John appears to be the son of Balzar Frantz. Balzar had a 1733 warrant for property along Pequa Creek. Beaver Creek flows into Pequa Creek near Adam Thommen, and two of Adam's grandchildren lived in Pequa Township. 7. Balzar Frantz is said to have been married to an Anna Barbara, and both were baptized by Michael Frantz of the German Baptist Conestoga congregation around 1738. 8. I have found info that states that Balzar was the brother of German Baptist Elder Michael Frantz (source includes European tax records). 9. Balzar apparently died about 1742, since an Anna Barbara Frantz filed a 6/13/1743 warrant for property on Cocalico Creek. She filed a second warrant for the same property on 11/19/1747. This property was adjacent Henry Landis and very close to Rudolph Bollinger, both German Baptists, and very close to Ephrata. She may have wanted to leave Mennonite Pequa for German Baptist Ephrata to raise her children. 10. John Frantz had a son John Frantz and a brother Abraham Frantz. Abraham had a 1757 warrant for a property along Mill Creek in Elizabeth Township. John Frantz is found living on that same property and is in the tax lists of Elizabeth Township from 1771 through 1782. He is also listed in a 1786 Elizabeth Township property record as well. 11. This second John Frantz was the executor in the 1770 Will of Jacob Thommen of Elizabeth Township. Jacob's Will refers to John Frantz as his neighbor. This property was very close to the property of Mennonite Michael Schenk (later owned by son Martin Schenk). Michael Schenk also had property near by in Warwick Township. 12. Jacob Thommen is likely Joggi Thommen who immigrated with his wife Barbara Handschin from Holstein Switzerland in 1749. He would have been close to 90 years old when he died. I suspect Joggi was also Mennonite. 13. John Frantz of Elizabeth Township is not likely the son of Abraham Frantz, who lists only two sons (Abraham & Adam) in his 1770 will. 14. The Will of John Frantz of Manor Township lists Jacob Frantz executor, and Jacob Frantz is listed in the 1782 Manor Township tax (not John). I have a two questions: 1. Does anyone have any reliable information on the John Frantz of Manor Township? 2. Could John Frantz of Manor Township and John Frantz of Elizabeth Township be the same person (owning property in both places and thus paying taxes in both places, but living in Elizabeth Township? Bill Thomas

I am still searching for the exact parentage of Martin Miller (1780-Oct.30, 1852), married 1) Esther Bowman (daughter of Joseph Bowman and Esther Bechtel); m. 2) Catherine Brillhart. Martin and Esther lived near Bridgewater, VA; he was a minister in the Beaver Creek CoB near there. They had 9 children: Magdalen, Elizabeth (Betsy) (m. John Early), Esther, Jacob, Susan, Samuel, Daniel, John M. and Joseph. (I am descended from Elizabeth and John Early. I cannot find the burial place of Martin and Elizabeth. After Elizabeth died, he moved to the Roanoke area where he is found in the 1850 census with wife Catherine. In Emmert Bittinger's "Descendants of Jacob Bowman, Sr., Part III, Mennonite Family History Vol XVIL Nunmber 1, January 1998, pp. 32-39, he writes "Esther Bowman, b. 1783; d. 1855; m. Mar 8, 1803 to Martin Miller, active and well-known Brethren Minister of the Beaver Creek congregation, and a traveling companion of Elder John Kline. They had 9 children. However, there is a problem. In the book, "Life of John Kline, 1797-1864, by Benjamin Funk, I have found Martin's name in the index and read the pages listed (He is named as Martain Miller). The dates given for his travels with John Kline (except for the first two) were after Martin Miller had died in 1852. (There are entries up to 1862). This has to be another Martin Miller! (It would be nice if I could claim my Miller ancestor traveled with John Kline to Annual Meetings and on preaching journeys!) Martin Miller and wife Esther Bowman are listed in Floyd Mason's Michael Miller book on page 60; however, I do not have preceeding pages to give me Martin's or Esther's parentage. If anyone can give me more background on Martin Miller's or Esther Bowman's correct ancestry line, it would be greatly appreciated! Doris Dibert

On 3/8/2011 12:32 PM, Dwayne Wrightsman wrote: > Recently reading through some materials on Elder Gasper Roland who > ministered in the Big and Little Conewago congregations in Pennsylvania, the > Forks of the Yadkin congregation in North Carolina, and possibly elsewhere, > I noticed that he had several connections over a long period of time with > Elder John Garber Jr. who ministered in the New River Brethren community in > North Carolina and in several congregations in Ohio, including the Donnels > Creek congregation in Clark County. > > > > The first connection was in Pennsylvania, January 7, 1757, when Gasper > Roland owned land bordering John Gerber's 200 acres on Big Conewago Creek in > York County. (Source: Deed Book A, p. 219) This John Gerber was probably > the father of John Garber Jr. as the latter was just a little boy in that > year. > > > > The second connection was twenty years later, in the late 1770s, in North > Carolina, where both men lived in the Forks of the Yadkin in Rowan County. > In 1778, John Garber paid taxes in Capt. Lyons' District along with Jacob > Roland, Daniel Hendricks, John Roland, John Hendricks, and other Brethren. > Jacob Roland and John Roland were sons of Gasper Roland. Daniel Hendricks > and John Hendricks were sons of James Hendricks, who, in turn, was a > son-in-law of Gasper Roland by virtue of James' marrying, at a late age, one > of Gasper's young daughters. The daughter/bride was younger than her > step-sons Daniel and John Hendricks. John Garber, John Roland, and John > Hendricks were close neighbors on Weavers Creek; Gasper Roland, Jacob > Roland, and Daniel Hendricks were close neighbors on Filkers Creek. > (Source: Roland County, NC, Vacant Land Entries, August 5, 1778, and June > 7, 1779.) > > > > The third connection was in Wilkes County, NC, when, on September 10, 1797, > "Jasper Rowland" [Gasper Roland] was recorded as having purchased 200 acres > from John "Carver" [Garber] located on Buffalo Creek on the west side of > Phoenix Mountain. Witnesses were John Kessler (son of Ulrich) and Abraham > Roland (son of Gasper). (Source, Deed Book D, p. 55) Both Gasper Roland > and John Garber would later move to Kentucky (where Gasper Roland died and > from where John Garber moved on to the Miami Valley of Ohio). > > > > These connections may have been coincidental, but I like to believe that > John Garber Jr. took a liking to Gasper Roland who was still a young man > when John was a little boy in York County and that they became friends later > on while serving in the ministry. I certainly doubt that it was a > coincidence that they both moved to Kentucky about the same time, as both > became known for their pro-Universalist views. > > > > Dwayne Wrightsman > John Garber is recorded as the first minister of the Obannon Church, Goshen, Clermont Co OH (traditionally founded 1795). He moved up to Donnels Creek after the Virginia Bounty Lands Survey, about 1802 (Elder there, 1805). Yes, His grandson records that he was a believer in Eternal Restoration (Pietistic belief that developed into Universalism). Austin Cooper listed him as ordained in the Stony Creek Church, Brothers Valley PA in 1771, but that he returned to the Beaver Dam Church that year. His father was Samuel Garber, mother Catherine Diehl. His wife was Barbara Zook, dau of Henry Zug and Barbara Kurtz. After leaving the Carolinas, he moved to near Lexington KY (almost certainly Hinkston Creek Church) before moving to the Obannon Creek. I did not find records that Gasper Roland believed in Eternal Restoration - but his family moved to the Drakes Creek Church (Simpson Co KY) where Elder John Hendricks went (who may be the "John H" of the Annual Meeting Bann of 1798) because of his beliefs in Eternal Restoration - Universalism. Many from Drakes Creek moved on to the White Water Church, Cape Girardeau MO (Spanish Louisianna Territory then). That church became Universalist. His son Joseph Roland (wife Catherine Dobbins) founded the Long Creek Church and Sugar Creek Church (among others - 1830 document). He was a minister at Drakes Creek, then went on first to Missouri, then to Sangamon Co IL (dying in Lincoln Co MO - Catherine died in Sangamon Co) Merle C Rummel

Recently reading through some materials on Elder Gasper Roland who ministered in the Big and Little Conewago congregations in Pennsylvania, the Forks of the Yadkin congregation in North Carolina, and possibly elsewhere, I noticed that he had several connections over a long period of time with Elder John Garber Jr. who ministered in the New River Brethren community in North Carolina and in several congregations in Ohio, including the Donnels Creek congregation in Clark County. The first connection was in Pennsylvania, January 7, 1757, when Gasper Roland owned land bordering John Gerber's 200 acres on Big Conewago Creek in York County. (Source: Deed Book A, p. 219) This John Gerber was probably the father of John Garber Jr. as the latter was just a little boy in that year. The second connection was twenty years later, in the late 1770s, in North Carolina, where both men lived in the Forks of the Yadkin in Rowan County. In 1778, John Garber paid taxes in Capt. Lyons' District along with Jacob Roland, Daniel Hendricks, John Roland, John Hendricks, and other Brethren. Jacob Roland and John Roland were sons of Gasper Roland. Daniel Hendricks and John Hendricks were sons of James Hendricks, who, in turn, was a son-in-law of Gasper Roland by virtue of James' marrying, at a late age, one of Gasper's young daughters. The daughter/bride was younger than her step-sons Daniel and John Hendricks. John Garber, John Roland, and John Hendricks were close neighbors on Weavers Creek; Gasper Roland, Jacob Roland, and Daniel Hendricks were close neighbors on Filkers Creek. (Source: Roland County, NC, Vacant Land Entries, August 5, 1778, and June 7, 1779.) The third connection was in Wilkes County, NC, when, on September 10, 1797, "Jasper Rowland" [Gasper Roland] was recorded as having purchased 200 acres from John "Carver" [Garber] located on Buffalo Creek on the west side of Phoenix Mountain. Witnesses were John Kessler (son of Ulrich) and Abraham Roland (son of Gasper). (Source, Deed Book D, p. 55) Both Gasper Roland and John Garber would later move to Kentucky (where Gasper Roland died and from where John Garber moved on to the Miami Valley of Ohio). These connections may have been coincidental, but I like to believe that John Garber Jr. took a liking to Gasper Roland who was still a young man when John was a little boy in York County and that they became friends later on while serving in the ministry. I certainly doubt that it was a coincidence that they both moved to Kentucky about the same time, as both became known for their pro-Universalist views. Dwayne Wrightsman

Speaking of Miller's.. . Does anybody have a Mary Miller b Sept 19 1843 Montgomery County Ohio in their files? Her parents were Samuel Miller and Margaret Hoover according to notes taken by her grandson but I have no further information or documentation. Her first husband was George Antrim and her second husband was Adam Sensenbaugh. She died August 2 1918 in Clay Township, Carroll Co., Indiana Jackie " Those who do not treasure up the memory of their ancestors do not deserve to be remembered by posterity" Edmund Burke "Clutter is just delayed decision-making"

I have a William Miller born 26 Jan. 1808 in Pa. maybe Centre co. He died 24 June 1848, Florence, Stephenson Co. Ill. and is buried in the Hart Cemetery. He came to the Yellow Creek area of Stephenson co. Ill. to establish the Yellow Creek Church of the Brethern. Charter members were Allen Boyer, Michael Lauver, Leah Boyer, Catherine Lauver, Daniel Fry and wife, William Miller, Lydia Jourdan, Joseph Rush, Benjamin H. Kepner, , Sarah Kepner, Hannah Sousman, John Lauver, Christina Lauver, Dr. Frederick Voight, Wilhelmina Voight. Knowing that the widow of William Miller was named Catherine and that he had been in the area of Stark co. Ohio at the time he would have married. I suspect he could have been married to Catherine Bowman 22 Nov. 1838, Stark co. Ohio. by the dates of birth of his children he must have had a wife before Bowman. Rachel born 1832 , Stark co. Oh. md. Lamprecht, Circut riding Preacher, later in life was Methodist. Levi born 1834 m. Catherine Ogg Lorna born 1837 Arthur F. born 1839 Ohio Melissa born 1845, in Illinois m. Kappes There seems to me a lot of connections to the Ogg family that came from Maryland, Frederick co. area. to Stephenson co and moved on to Iowa. I would wish some one would know about my William Miller and who he married. Thank You, Dove

Oh, how I wish I could join in this discussion on the Bowman cousins lines!! I do have one known Baumann ancestor. Our immigrant Marx Bigler's mother was Anna Maria Vogler, (birth estimated to be about 1677) who was the daughter of Hans Jacob Vogler and Anna Baumann, of Ingolsheim, Alsace (now Bas-Rhin) France. I know nothing of who Anna's parents might be - Anna is such a common name! N. H. Goodman -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Patricia Seaver Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BRE] Miller and Bowman lines Here are some references: Donald Link. 2000. The Wine Family in America, Section IV pp. 22-24 "It is known that Anna Martha Wine married a man named Miller. Since the names Jacob Miller and Martha Miller appear on a deed on file in Frederick County, Maryland, it is almost conclusive that Ann Martha Wine married Jacob Miller." [bold print mine] "The eight Miller children.... 3. Martin Miller, b. ca. 1782; d. Oct 30, 1852; m. (1) Mar 8, 1803-Esther Bowman, dau. of Joseph Bowman, and Esther Bechtel, of Linville Creek CoB at Broadway, VA; m. (2) Catherine Brillhart; res: near Harrisonburg, VA; Martin Miller was a minister in the Beaver Creek CoB near Bridgewater." [footnote stating that Joseph Bowman was a son of Jacob Bowman, Sr.] Emmert F. Bittinger "Descendants of Jacob Bowman, Sr., and His Wives Varena and Catherine, Part III, Mennonite Family History Vol XVIL Number 1 January 1998, pp. 32-39. p. 38 BW17 Joseph Bowman, b. ca1757, Washington Co, Md. d. 1830, Rockingham Co., VA; m. ca1777-80 ?Md., to Esther, dau of Samuel and Anna (Simon) Bechtal of Beaver Creek, Washington Co, Md. Samuel Bechtal was a Mennonite minister, but later a Brethren minister. After moving to Linville Creek, VA., Joseph became a prosperous farmer, miller and deacon in the Linville Creek Church. ... p. 39 BW 172 Esther Bowman, b. 1783; d. 1855; m. Mar 8, 1803 to Martin Miller, active and well-known Brethren minister of the Beaver Creek congregation, and a traveling companion of Elder John Kline. They had nine children. Floyd Mason. 1986. Michael Miller of 1692. Johann Michael Müeller/Miller 1655-1694 m. Irene Charitas Johann Michael Müeller/Miller 5 oct 1692-1771 m. Susanna Agnes Berchtol "thought to have had the following children..." Lodowich c1729-c1792 m. Barbara Ann (Last Name Unknown) Jacob Miller b 2 oct 1748 m. Anna Martha Wine .... I have recently received my results from FamilyTreeDNA's Family Finder DNA test. Family Finder tests chromosomes not included on the yDNA or the mtDNA tests and can be taken by males and females. The results include both the maternal and paternal lines and predict cousin relationships at different distances. I have some Bowman matches. As more people take this test and the pool of donors grows larger, I hope to see some Miller and Wine matches, as well. Pat Seaver Who shares Müeller/Miller, Bowman (double descendant from Jacob & Varena), Wine (double descendant from Johann George and Margaretha) On Mar 7, 2011, at 9:15 AM, Doris Dibert wrote: > I am searching for the correct parentage and ancestry line of Martin Miller, b. 1780, d 1852. Martin m. 1) Esther Bowman, b. 1783, d. 1844; 2) married to Catherine Brillhart. He was a farmer and lived near Bridgewater, VA, later moved to Shenandoah Co, VA after his 2nd marriage and died there. The only information known about Martin is that he was born 1780 "near Moore's Store", Rockingham Co., VA. Martin and wife Esther were married 3-3-1803 by Elder Benjamin Bowman. > > Esther Bowman was born 3-31-1783, daughter of Joseph and Esther (Becktol) Bowman. > > The children of Martin Miller and Esther Bowman were Magdalene, Elizabeth, Esther, Jacob, Susan, Samuel, Daniel, John M. and Joseph. > > My ancestry line is through daughter Elizabeth ("Betsy"), married to John Early, b. 1803, son of Jacob and Magdalene (Wenger) Early of Harrisonburg, Rockingham Co., VA. > > I have been uable to identify the family lines of Martin Miller and Esther Bowman, and would appreciate any information sent. > Doris Dibert > > ------------------------ Search the > Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further > information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here are some references: Donald Link. 2000. The Wine Family in America, Section IV pp. 22-24 "It is known that Anna Martha Wine married a man named Miller. Since the names Jacob Miller and Martha Miller appear on a deed on file in Frederick County, Maryland, it is almost conclusive that Ann Martha Wine married Jacob Miller." [bold print mine] "The eight Miller children.... 3. Martin Miller, b. ca. 1782; d. Oct 30, 1852; m. (1) Mar 8, 1803-Esther Bowman, dau. of Joseph Bowman, and Esther Bechtel, of Linville Creek CoB at Broadway, VA; m. (2) Catherine Brillhart; res: near Harrisonburg, VA; Martin Miller was a minister in the Beaver Creek CoB near Bridgewater." [footnote stating that Joseph Bowman was a son of Jacob Bowman, Sr.] Emmert F. Bittinger "Descendants of Jacob Bowman, Sr., and His Wives Varena and Catherine, Part III, Mennonite Family History Vol XVIL Number 1 January 1998, pp. 32-39. p. 38 BW17 Joseph Bowman, b. ca1757, Washington Co, Md. d. 1830, Rockingham Co., VA; m. ca1777-80 ?Md., to Esther, dau of Samuel and Anna (Simon) Bechtal of Beaver Creek, Washington Co, Md. Samuel Bechtal was a Mennonite minister, but later a Brethren minister. After moving to Linville Creek, VA., Joseph became a prosperous farmer, miller and deacon in the Linville Creek Church. ... p. 39 BW 172 Esther Bowman, b. 1783; d. 1855; m. Mar 8, 1803 to Martin Miller, active and well-known Brethren minister of the Beaver Creek congregation, and a traveling companion of Elder John Kline. They had nine children. Floyd Mason. 1986. Michael Miller of 1692. Johann Michael Müeller/Miller 1655-1694 m. Irene Charitas Johann Michael Müeller/Miller 5 oct 1692-1771 m. Susanna Agnes Berchtol "thought to have had the following children..." Lodowich c1729-c1792 m. Barbara Ann (Last Name Unknown) Jacob Miller b 2 oct 1748 m. Anna Martha Wine .... I have recently received my results from FamilyTreeDNA's Family Finder DNA test. Family Finder tests chromosomes not included on the yDNA or the mtDNA tests and can be taken by males and females. The results include both the maternal and paternal lines and predict cousin relationships at different distances. I have some Bowman matches. As more people take this test and the pool of donors grows larger, I hope to see some Miller and Wine matches, as well. Pat Seaver Who shares Müeller/Miller, Bowman (double descendant from Jacob & Varena), Wine (double descendant from Johann George and Margaretha) On Mar 7, 2011, at 9:15 AM, Doris Dibert wrote: > I am searching for the correct parentage and ancestry line of Martin Miller, b. 1780, d 1852. Martin m. 1) Esther Bowman, b. 1783, d. 1844; 2) married to Catherine Brillhart. He was a farmer and lived near Bridgewater, VA, later moved to Shenandoah Co, VA after his 2nd marriage and died there. The only information known about Martin is that he was born 1780 "near Moore's Store", Rockingham Co., VA. Martin and wife Esther were married 3-3-1803 by Elder Benjamin Bowman. > > Esther Bowman was born 3-31-1783, daughter of Joseph and Esther (Becktol) Bowman. > > The children of Martin Miller and Esther Bowman were Magdalene, Elizabeth, Esther, Jacob, Susan, Samuel, Daniel, John M. and Joseph. > > My ancestry line is through daughter Elizabeth ("Betsy"), married to John Early, b. 1803, son of Jacob and Magdalene (Wenger) Early of Harrisonburg, Rockingham Co., VA. > > I have been uable to identify the family lines of Martin Miller and Esther Bowman, and would appreciate any information sent. > Doris Dibert > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > Support Our Sponsoring Agency > The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) > For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] > ------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Doris, Please visit the link on my attached database to view my records. My records indicate Martin was the son of Jacob and Anna Martin Wine Miller. I believe this is correct. If you know otherwise, please advise. Link to database: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=brentrod&id=I12765 By the way, I am the President of the Early Cemetery Association. We appreciate you recent contribution. Thanks, Brent Rodes [email protected] Website: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=brentrod&id=I12765 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Doris Dibert Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:16 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [BRE] Miller and Bowman lines I am searching for the correct parentage and ancestry line of Martin Miller, b. 1780, d 1852. Martin m. 1) Esther Bowman, b. 1783, d. 1844; 2) married to Catherine Brillhart. He was a farmer and lived near Bridgewater, VA, later moved to Shenandoah Co, VA after his 2nd marriage and died there. The only information known about Martin is that he was born 1780 "near Moore's Store", Rockingham Co., VA. Martin and wife Esther were married 3-3-1803 by Elder Benjamin Bowman. Esther Bowman was born 3-31-1783, daughter of Joseph and Esther (Becktol) Bowman. The children of Martin Miller and Esther Bowman were Magdalene, Elizabeth, Esther, Jacob, Susan, Samuel, Daniel, John M. and Joseph. My ancestry line is through daughter Elizabeth ("Betsy"), married to John Early, b. 1803, son of Jacob and Magdalene (Wenger) Early of Harrisonburg, Rockingham Co., VA. I have been uable to identify the family lines of Martin Miller and Esther Bowman, and would appreciate any information sent. Doris Dibert ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ Support Our Sponsoring Agency The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists (FOBG) For further information contact Ron McAdams mailto:[email protected] ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am searching for the correct parentage and ancestry line of Martin Miller, b. 1780, d 1852. Martin m. 1) Esther Bowman, b. 1783, d. 1844; 2) married to Catherine Brillhart. He was a farmer and lived near Bridgewater, VA, later moved to Shenandoah Co, VA after his 2nd marriage and died there. The only information known about Martin is that he was born 1780 "near Moore's Store", Rockingham Co., VA. Martin and wife Esther were married 3-3-1803 by Elder Benjamin Bowman. Esther Bowman was born 3-31-1783, daughter of Joseph and Esther (Becktol) Bowman. The children of Martin Miller and Esther Bowman were Magdalene, Elizabeth, Esther, Jacob, Susan, Samuel, Daniel, John M. and Joseph. My ancestry line is through daughter Elizabeth ("Betsy"), married to John Early, b. 1803, son of Jacob and Magdalene (Wenger) Early of Harrisonburg, Rockingham Co., VA. I have been uable to identify the family lines of Martin Miller and Esther Bowman, and would appreciate any information sent. Doris Dibert