>From this website: http://amishmennoniteineurope.blogspot.com/2008/06/steffisberg-home-of-ancestors.html "Isaac was called a Tauferlehrer, or Anabaptist preacher."

Some comments on Peter Forney being the father of Elizabeth. 1. You reference Lois Mast. My source was not AAMG, but a book by Lois Mast titled "The Peter Leibundgutt Journal". However, this was published in 1991, and your MFH citation was 1994, so she appears to have changed her mind. 2. There are two Peter Forney's from this period. One in Earl Township, Lancaster County, and one from what became Lebanon County. Joseph had a brother Peter, and both came from Lebanon County (sons of Peter Forney, who died in Lebanon Township about 1763). The Peter in Elk Lick Township tax records is most likely Joseph's brother. Forney's were originally Mennonite per another Somerset County Historical source. The Peter who died in 1763 references two Mennonite family names in the Orphan Court records. 2. Although Peter is on the tax rolls for Elk Lick Township, he is also on the tax rolls for the Lebanon County area where the Forney's came from. 3. Peter is on a number of militia lists for what became Lebanon County, including years he is taxed in Bedford County (later Somerset County) and is missing from the 1789 Bedford County militia list. The Bedford militia list does include Joseph Forney. (should stress that many of these militia lists relate to those eligible for service, and are not lists of those who actually served). Thus, there is some doubt if Peter ever lived in Elk Lick Township. Bill Thomas

I googled him & found a lot of info. Sent from my iPad

On a genealogy card is Tauferlehrer Isaac Kauffman. Is that a name, title, or occupation? Sent from my iPad

In a message dated 8/14/2013 8:03:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time, wbtst2@atlanticbb.net writes: Merle: Also wanted to provide some info of Somerset County Amish related families who migrated to Ontario. The John Stump of Brothersvalley owned property in what later was Elk Lick Township, then Summit Township (near Meyersdale). 1. Brothers John and Christian Troyer and their wives sisters Veronica and Barbara Yoder. Barbara was previously married to Joseph Forney and prior to that Isaac Miller. They migrated from Elk Lick Township after 1802. Joseph Forney's daughter Elizabeth married Christian Livengood, the son of Brethren minister Peter Livengood. Hoping to set the record straight concerning Elizabeth (Forney) Livengood: Amish and Amish Mennonite Genealogies by Gingerich and Kreider states in footnote 4 on page 233, that Elizabeth Forney who married Christian Livengood was a daughter of Joseph Forney, by his first wife. It is a wonderful book, but this appears to be one of its few mistakes. The February 1981 issue of the Laurel Messenger on page 8 has a few queries. One by Dorothy J. DeGruchy has this: FORNEY - FAHRNEY: Peter Forney b Darmstadt, Germany abt 1739, father of Elizabeth FORNEY b. 1769, Berks Co., m. Peter (I believe she meant to say Christian) Livengood. Need to know wife of Peter Forney and other children. Peter settled Elk Lick Twp. and was a Rev. soldier. In the January 1994 issue of Mennonite Family History, page 46 there is a query by Lois Ann Mast. It reads: Livengood: Who was the wife of Christian Livengood (1761-1837), son of Peter and Barbara (Nafziger)? It was not Elizabeth Forney, dau. of Joseph Forney, as many sources quote. That Elizabeth (1779-1852) remained single all of her life and d. in Ohio. Her brother, John Forney (1776-1846), a well-known clergyman in the Brethren Church in Somerset Co., Pa., purchased Elizabeth's share of her father's estate in 1802 after their father died. She was single at that time. So who was Christian Livengood's wife with whom he had fifteen children? Could she have been Elizabeth Forney, dau. of Peter Forney? The book Tombstone Inscriptions of Cemeteries, Somerset County PA, page 210 says Elizabeth was a daughter of Peter Forney. A Somerset Past issue (I believe it is Vol. 1, #3, from Oct 1981), page 15, also says Elizabeth, consort of Christian, was a daughter of Peter Forney. I believe Christian Livengood's wife was Elizabeth Forney, daughter of Peter. Unfortunately I show no siblings for Elizabeth. She and Christian Livengood were in my direct line. Debby Bliss

I know I had many Peck ancesters in this area. I never see their names on this list. Were they not very involved in the late 1700's and early 1800's? Jacob was my direct. ********* I've seen PECK only a couple times - I suspect there could be a connection to BECK, who I even had as a member of my church down near Cincinnati - coming up from Kentucky (and the Carolinas), but even then, it is not common in my research. Merle

Merle I don't ak much on this site but I know I had many Peck ancesters in this area. I never see their names on this list. Were they not very involved in the late 1700's and early 1800's? Jacob was my direct. Del ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Thomas" <wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> To: <cliff@nwwnet.net>; <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [BRE] Stump Family Report...Somerset County to Ontario > > Merle: > > Also wanted to provide some info of Somerset County Amish related families > who migrated to Ontario. The John Stump of Brothersvalley owned property > in > what later was Elk Lick Township, then Summit Township (near Meyersdale). > > 1. Brothers John and Christian Troyer and their wives sisters Veronica > and > Barbara Yoder. Barbara was previously married to Joseph Forney and prior > to > that Isaac Miller. They migrated from Elk Lick Township after 1802. > Joseph > Forney's daughter Elizabeth married Christian Livengood, the son of > Brethren > minister Peter Livengood. > > 2. Joseph Hochstetler and his wife Mary Yoder. They migrated from the > Conemaugh/Jenner Township line adjacent one of my Thomas ancestors, who > was > likely Brethren after 1810. > > 3. Jacob Berkey and his wife Veronica Blough. They lived in > Brothersvalley Township, and migrated ??. His brother Joseph was married > to > a Good, and her brother Jacob was Brethren. > > 4. Sisters Mary and Elizabeth Keagy died in Ontario, and were married to > brothers Joseph and Abraham Beeghley, the son's of Brethren minister > Michael > Beeghley. Michael owned property adjacent John Stump. They migrated > after > 1818. > > As they say....birds of a feather flock together....hope this is helpful. > > Bill Thomas > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Merle: Also wanted to provide some info of Somerset County Amish related families who migrated to Ontario. The John Stump of Brothersvalley owned property in what later was Elk Lick Township, then Summit Township (near Meyersdale). 1. Brothers John and Christian Troyer and their wives sisters Veronica and Barbara Yoder. Barbara was previously married to Joseph Forney and prior to that Isaac Miller. They migrated from Elk Lick Township after 1802. Joseph Forney's daughter Elizabeth married Christian Livengood, the son of Brethren minister Peter Livengood. 2. Joseph Hochstetler and his wife Mary Yoder. They migrated from the Conemaugh/Jenner Township line adjacent one of my Thomas ancestors, who was likely Brethren after 1810. 3. Jacob Berkey and his wife Veronica Blough. They lived in Brothersvalley Township, and migrated ??. His brother Joseph was married to a Good, and her brother Jacob was Brethren. 4. Sisters Mary and Elizabeth Keagy died in Ontario, and were married to brothers Joseph and Abraham Beeghley, the son's of Brethren minister Michael Beeghley. Michael owned property adjacent John Stump. They migrated after 1818. As they say....birds of a feather flock together....hope this is helpful. Bill Thomas

Short answer is yes, but they are a branch from the same trunk. Cables are one of the early Brethren families. Bill Thomas -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of robert.e.troup Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:51 PM To: brethren@rootsweb.com; Merle Rummel Subject: Re: [BRE] Stump Family Report...Somerset County Hello, I am a descendant of Abraham/Jonathan Cable and looking at my notes, after seeing the attached email, I see I have Abraham Cable and his wife Mary, were on the list of 17 original members of the Seventh Day Baptist congregation, Is the Seventh Day Baptist the same as the Brethren you are talking about? Bob On 8/14/2013 2:17 PM, William Thomas wrote: > Merle: > > There are two Stumps found in early Somerset County records, which I believe > you are familiar with: > > 1) Francis Stump had a 1785 warrant for property in Brothersvalley > Township. Survey map shows it adjacent the property of Jonathan Cable, > likely the son of Abraham Cable, and the Brethren Cable family. Francis is > listed as a tenant in the 1783 tax records. He is in the Elk Lick Township > tax in 1786, a township formed from Brothersvalley. He moved onto Kentucky. > > 2) John Stump had 3 warrants, a 1774 warrant in Brothersvalley Township, > and a 1775 warrant for the adjacent property, and a 1775 warrant for a > property in Quemahoning Township. Survey map shows the Brothersvalley > Township property adjacent Michael Beeghly, the Brethren minister. The > History of Bedford & Somerset County notes this property as having the name > 'Coal Bank' and was located in present day Summit Township. Survey maps > shows the Quemahoning Township property adjacent John Rhoads, and the Roads > family has Brethren Connections. John is also missing from Brothersvalley > tax and Quemahoning tax rolls form this period. A John Stump shows up in > Stonycreek Township, in the 1800 & 1810 census. The Stump Quemahoning > Township property was later in Stonycreek Township. The 1820 census has a > John Stump in Shade Township, which is the location of the Stump Cemetery > that contains a John Stump born in 1759 and died in 1833. Shade Township > was formed from Stonycreek Township. This John is designated as a > Revolutionary War Vet. However, a biography of John is on the GenWeb, and > states he was in early tax records, but I couldn't find his name listed. I > also suspect there were two John Stumps from this period. > > Bill Thomas > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I am a descendant of Abraham/Jonathan Cable and looking at my notes, after seeing the attached email, I see I have Abraham Cable and his wife Mary, were on the list of 17 original members of the Seventh Day Baptist congregation, Is the Seventh Day Baptist the same as the Brethren you are talking about? Bob On 8/14/2013 2:17 PM, William Thomas wrote: > Merle: > > There are two Stumps found in early Somerset County records, which I believe > you are familiar with: > > 1) Francis Stump had a 1785 warrant for property in Brothersvalley > Township. Survey map shows it adjacent the property of Jonathan Cable, > likely the son of Abraham Cable, and the Brethren Cable family. Francis is > listed as a tenant in the 1783 tax records. He is in the Elk Lick Township > tax in 1786, a township formed from Brothersvalley. He moved onto Kentucky. > > 2) John Stump had 3 warrants, a 1774 warrant in Brothersvalley Township, > and a 1775 warrant for the adjacent property, and a 1775 warrant for a > property in Quemahoning Township. Survey map shows the Brothersvalley > Township property adjacent Michael Beeghly, the Brethren minister. The > History of Bedford & Somerset County notes this property as having the name > 'Coal Bank' and was located in present day Summit Township. Survey maps > shows the Quemahoning Township property adjacent John Rhoads, and the Roads > family has Brethren Connections. John is also missing from Brothersvalley > tax and Quemahoning tax rolls form this period. A John Stump shows up in > Stonycreek Township, in the 1800 & 1810 census. The Stump Quemahoning > Township property was later in Stonycreek Township. The 1820 census has a > John Stump in Shade Township, which is the location of the Stump Cemetery > that contains a John Stump born in 1759 and died in 1833. Shade Township > was formed from Stonycreek Township. This John is designated as a > Revolutionary War Vet. However, a biography of John is on the GenWeb, and > states he was in early tax records, but I couldn't find his name listed. I > also suspect there were two John Stumps from this period. > > Bill Thomas > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Merle: There are two Stumps found in early Somerset County records, which I believe you are familiar with: 1) Francis Stump had a 1785 warrant for property in Brothersvalley Township. Survey map shows it adjacent the property of Jonathan Cable, likely the son of Abraham Cable, and the Brethren Cable family. Francis is listed as a tenant in the 1783 tax records. He is in the Elk Lick Township tax in 1786, a township formed from Brothersvalley. He moved onto Kentucky. 2) John Stump had 3 warrants, a 1774 warrant in Brothersvalley Township, and a 1775 warrant for the adjacent property, and a 1775 warrant for a property in Quemahoning Township. Survey map shows the Brothersvalley Township property adjacent Michael Beeghly, the Brethren minister. The History of Bedford & Somerset County notes this property as having the name 'Coal Bank' and was located in present day Summit Township. Survey maps shows the Quemahoning Township property adjacent John Rhoads, and the Roads family has Brethren Connections. John is also missing from Brothersvalley tax and Quemahoning tax rolls form this period. A John Stump shows up in Stonycreek Township, in the 1800 & 1810 census. The Stump Quemahoning Township property was later in Stonycreek Township. The 1820 census has a John Stump in Shade Township, which is the location of the Stump Cemetery that contains a John Stump born in 1759 and died in 1833. Shade Township was formed from Stonycreek Township. This John is designated as a Revolutionary War Vet. However, a biography of John is on the GenWeb, and states he was in early tax records, but I couldn't find his name listed. I also suspect there were two John Stumps from this period. Bill Thomas

Following my paper on the Johan Georg Stump family in Brethren Roots, December 2012, a group of us began researching in depth the Stump families that came from Vaughan twp York Co ONT to near (east) of Nappanee, Elkhart Co IN. Most moved down about 1838-1840, as a result of the Rebellion of 1837, which came through their community north of Toronto. While there were other Ontario families that came, we are primarily concerned with three children of Abraham Stump (c1750-1820)and Mary Meckle/Meckley. Solomon and Daniel came themselves with their children. Susannah had died, but 5 (of 7) of her children came. Her husband, and second wife, later moved down with the Mennonite Bishop Martin Hoover family. The eldest was Susannah (c1780-c1825) who married John Smith (of the Schmidt-Dalziel Barn -at the Black Creek Pioneer Village north of Toronto ONT). John Smith (occasionally listed as Schmidt) originally came from Somerset Co, as a bachelor, with a brother, Jacob Smith. He was married to Sally soon after 1800. John sold the farm there after her death, and moved north, marrying Susannah Hoover Nighswander, widowed daughter of the Mennonite Bishop, Martin Hoover. Three of the Smith-Stump children came to Union twp, Elkhart Co IN in the 1840 migration, all living a couple miles east of the Union Center Church near others of the Stump kin. Lydia Smith, who married Jacob Brown; John Smith Jr, who married Catherine Snider and Jacob Smith, married to Elizabeth Fisher. John Smith Sr followed the migration of the Hoover families, in 1837 moving to Medina Co OH, then in 1845 coming to Harrison Centre, Harrison twp Elkhart Co. Two more of Susannah Stump Smith's children came with them, and remained: Joseph Smith (wife Susannah Hoover) and Susanna (married to Martin Hoover Jr). In 1856 John and Susannah Hoover Smith moved back to Ontario, to her children in Markham twp York Co ONT, where John died that year. Two sons of Abraham Stump (actually 3) moved down to adjoining farms, 2 miles east of the Union Center Church, on CR50. Solomon Stump (wife: Anna Burkholder) lived on the Northeast corner of CR50 and CR15. Daniel Stump (wife: Sally Smith) lived across the road, on the Southeast corner. A brother, David Stump, is listed as "insane" and was in the care of Solomon, Solomon's will names him, and passes care of him on to his son, Abraham Stump. We have found no burial for him. Solomon's families were instrumental in the formation of the Union Center German Baptist Church, (now Church of the Brethren). His son-in-law John Burkholder, was the first minister at the church. John was the first of the family to come down to Elkhart Co IN. He refused the Elkhart Prairie, north of Union Center, saying: "If it can't grow trees, it can't grown good corn." John Burkholder's homestead is north of Nappanee on CR7 at CR46 - a couple miles west and north of the Union Center Church. Solomon and Anna had 2 sons and 9 daughters. I have managed to trace the marriages of the daughters - starting with my own ancestry. Daniel was a Bishop of the River Brethren Church (now Brethren in Christ) and his original church, Union Grove, is on the Southwest corner. Daniel Stump's homestead is still retained in near original condition, with the original houses, and after the original barn burnt, one was removed from nearby property, in equivalent condition to replace it. The place is used for picnics and conferences. Stumptown, east of Nappanee, just south of the Union Center Church of the Brethren, is essentially the descendents of Daniel. We have basically concluded that Sally Smith, wife of our Daniel Stump, was NOT the Salome ("Sally") Schmidt of Milltown, Lebanon Co PA. An essential reason is that our Daniel Stump's Sally Smith, was Sarah Smith, not Salome (although researchers have for a number of years adapted the Milltown family to include both Sarah and Salome names for their daughter. This conclusion seems to have been proposed by Rev Carl Stump, of New Paris/Goshen IN.) Another reason is that the Salome Schmidt-Daniel Stump marriage was in Milltown, York Co PA, while the Sarah Smith-Daniel Stump marriage was in Vaughan twp, York Co ONT. There is about 300 miles separation between the two. A third reason is how the two became acquainted. Our Daniel Stump left that area soon after 1800 (10-12 years old), with no indications that he returned at any time. Correspondingly, the Johannes Schmidt/Christina Nunnenmacker family shows no connections to Ontario, for a 17-18 year old daughter to get married to the Daniel Stump living in Canada. Many years ago, Rev Carl Stump, of Goshen IN, did research on the Daniel Stump family. He concluded that the father of Abraham Stump (c1750-1820 - going to Vaughan twp York Co ONT in 1803), was a Caspar Stump, son of the immigrant, Johan Georg Stump (1710 to Schoharie Valley NY, c1725 coming down to the Tulpehocken in now Berks and Lebanon Cos PA). [I spoke with him, years ago, and made copies of much of his research. This was the basis of my incorrect entry in the Brethren Encyclopedia, on the Stump family.] Of the 8-9 children of Johan Georg - for two, and a possible third, little records have been found. These are Caspar and Abraham (Sr) (the third being a possible Adam). All lived near Mlllbeck, Heidelburg twp, now Lebanon Co PA a branch off Swatara Creek. Recently, the "Snyder County Pioneers (PA)" was observed to identify the father of Abraham Jr (our Abraham) [p91] - which states that Abraham Jr was the son of Abraham Sr. Abraham Jr lived at Straubstaun (now Freeburg, Snyder Co), Abraham Sr owned land in Northumberland Co, but is listed as "non-resident" (i.e. - living at Millbeck) It also stated that Abraham Sr was a "Northumberland Ranger". Northumberland was the original county north of the Pine Mountain Range, reaching north to the West Branch of the Susquehanna River, the border with the Iroquois Indians. The "Rangers" were frontier scouts used by the British, to keep track of the Indians (seems to have developed after the French and Indian War). Abraham Sr's eldest brother, Christopher, had a son, Frederick, who is notorious for his murder of several Mingo Indians on his farm. Frederick was also a Ranger. Frederick fled to Georgia. , and ended his life at Fort Nashboro (Nashville TN). A statement made by a Rev R E Stump, at Purpleville ONT is: "There were 5 Stump brothers who came up from Somerset Co PA. They were loyal to the British Monarchy, and refused to swear oath to the new rebel government." As an historian this tantalizes me. Now, knowing that Abraham Stump Sr was a "Northumberland Ranger" (Indian Scout) - and having the story of Frederick Stump, his nephew (son of Christopher Stump), another "British Ranger" who fled an Indian Massacre (to Georgia - He fought in the Revolution with Francis Marion, the Swamp Fox. He was captured by the British, bribed his freedom - then to Ft Nashboro. His log house, north of Nashville TN, was recently up for sale, with 10 acres of land, and a cemetery.) - the Stump family seems to have given strong support to the British government - after all, Queen "Maud" brought them over from the devastation of the Palatinate by the French, brought them to the "New World" - even if there were problems resulting from her soon death. AND - most of the children of Johan Georg Stump were Brethren (Baptist Brethren then - early connected to the Little Swatara German Baptist Church) - a faith that opposed war - whose young men refused to participate in the militia - a church persecuted by the Sons of Liberty during the Revolution. But - they "came to York Co Ontario from Somerset Co PA". Somerset Co PA was originally called "Brothers Valley" - a major settlement of the German Baptist Brethren (and Mennonites) starting about 1750. I suspect that Abraham Stump, with others, after the 1800 census, moved west to Somerset Co PA. Maybe it was because of the increasing tensions with the British, which resulted in the War of 1812, these Stumps had already been "tarred" with the brush of "Tory" [An adjacent William Stump, seemingly older than Abraham, also disappears about that same time from Northumberland Co - and is possibly the William Stump then found in Mifflin Co PA - part of the way to Somerset Co. I do suspect that William Stump is a brother of Abraham.] Around 1800 was when the 200 acre Lots of "Upper Canada" were opened to settlement - and a number of people from Somerset Co moved to Vaughan twp, York Co PA. Abraham Stump moved there in 1803. So - who are the "5 Stump brothers"? Several in my research group say they were the sons of Abraham Stump. I disagree. In 1803 the three youngest would have been: 13, 6 and 4. I do not see them as old enough to have "refused to swear oath to the new rebel government." Of the three older sons - one is labeled an "idiot" (retarded). I do place our Abraham Stump (c1750-1820) as one of the 5. There is record of an Adam Stump being in Canada. [Adam Stump, wife: Mary Catherine Deiss - who then moved to York Co PA] His tradition says he came from Germany to Canada - but he has several of the family names in his children - so I think he might be connected, maybe even a brother of Abraham (or - one son is Casper!) Johan Georg had an assumed brother, Adam Stump, who died in Schoharie in 1741 and there are some inferences that the Adam Stump who lived adjacent Caspar, Abraham and John at Millbeck, Heidelberg twp could have been a son of Johan Georg In Northumberland there was record of a nearby Jacob Stump, who was younger than Abraham, but definitely older than Abraham's children. When I was at Brampton ONT - at the "Old Jail" Archives - inquiring of the Stumps there (Solomon and Daniel both owned land near there at one time, as did John Smith) - I mentioned Jacob Stump - and the Archivist came running out of the records: "You are UEL ! " - "What's UEL?" - 'United Empire Loyalist" (a title given to refugees from the States - especially if they had fought with the British Army or were pro-King). I do not have a connection between those two Jacob Stumps - but we have not identified that Jacob Stump Maybe there are more Stump names - that we have not heard of yet? Merle C Rummel

Dwyane: What you state makes sense. The older John was likely Amish when he immigrated with his father (also named John) in 1737, since he immigrated on a boat with a number of Amish, and was part of a financial bond with two known Amish. Amish historians note that they lost many members to the early Brethren. I also don't see John Jr. in the 1777 non-assoicator list for Paxton Township, which is where he lived during the Revolution. Bill Thomas PS: that was 4 years ago! Time is a flying! -----Original Message----- From: brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:brethren-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dwayne Wrightsman Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:55 PM To: Brethren@rootsweb.com Subject: [BRE] Who was the John Garber of the Ephrata Community? Revisited To Bill Thomas and interested others, Bill, I never did get back to you about your insightful message of four years ago (attached below), but alas I never forgot it either. Recently, I have been trying to figure out the Garber/Garber families of the 1700s who lived close to Ephrata and found I had to agree with your analysis except I think the John Garber of Ephrata, listed by Morgan Edwards in 1770, was not Hans Gerber (b. 1737, d. 1805), but rather was his father, Hans Gerber (b. 1710, d. 1767). The father apparently died three years before 1770, but we have no way of knowing what records were given to Morgan Edwards by the Ephrata Community prior to 1770. The reason I do not think it was Hans Garber, the son, is because the son's history after his father died was antithetical to Brethren ways. His life story is described rather vividly online in "Crawford County, Pennsylvania, Military Affairs, Revolutionary War Veterans, John Garber." Although, it is less-dramatically described in Garver and Masters, "Gerber, Garber, and Garver Progenitors in Pennsylvania: Part One," Pennsylvania Mennonite Heritage, July 1999, p. 29, neither of these accounts leads me to believe that he was a member of the Ephrata Church. The age, life experiences, and Brethren connections of Hans Gerber (1710-1767), the father, seem to me to fit better with being a member at Ephrata. Dwayne Wrightsman From: "William Thomas" < wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> Subject: Re: [BRE] Who was John Garber of the Ephrata Community...ps Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:42:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <003b01ca3fbe$5e74a7c0$1b5df740$@net> Dwayne: I did some more research on my Garber info, and have another possible candidate. Hans Gerber (b. 1737, d. 1805) was the son of immigrant Hans Gerber (b. 1710, d. 1767). The elder Hans Gerber was part of an early Amish settlement in Cocalico. In 1745 he purchased property in Leacock Township from Elizabeth (Thommen) Shively and Ulrich Shively, that Elizabeth inherited from her father Jacob. Ulrich was a German Baptist, and Elizabeth's father Jacob Thommen was a member of the Ephrata Cloister. The younger Hans Gerber lived on property he purchased from his father in Earl and Warwick Townships. The info does not list the name of Hans wife. It is noted in the footnotes that Hans is possibly the John Garber at Ephrata, who was a member along with his wife. It is noteworthy that Hans had a sister Barbara (b. 1746, d. 1810) married to Henry Newcomer, and is buried in the Dunker Cemetery at Beaver Creek Maryland. So Hans has several German Baptist connections. Bill Thomas ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To Bill Thomas and interested others, Bill, I never did get back to you about your insightful message of four years ago (attached below), but alas I never forgot it either. Recently, I have been trying to figure out the Garber/Garber families of the 1700s who lived close to Ephrata and found I had to agree with your analysis except I think the John Garber of Ephrata, listed by Morgan Edwards in 1770, was not Hans Gerber (b. 1737, d. 1805), but rather was his father, Hans Gerber (b. 1710, d. 1767). The father apparently died three years before 1770, but we have no way of knowing what records were given to Morgan Edwards by the Ephrata Community prior to 1770. The reason I do not think it was Hans Garber, the son, is because the son's history after his father died was antithetical to Brethren ways. His life story is described rather vividly online in "Crawford County, Pennsylvania, Military Affairs, Revolutionary War Veterans, John Garber." Although, it is less-dramatically described in Garver and Masters, "Gerber, Garber, and Garver Progenitors in Pennsylvania: Part One," Pennsylvania Mennonite Heritage, July 1999, p. 29, neither of these accounts leads me to believe that he was a member of the Ephrata Church. The age, life experiences, and Brethren connections of Hans Gerber (1710-1767), the father, seem to me to fit better with being a member at Ephrata. Dwayne Wrightsman From: "William Thomas" < wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> Subject: Re: [BRE] Who was John Garber of the Ephrata Community...ps Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:42:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <003b01ca3fbe$5e74a7c0$1b5df740$@net> Dwayne: I did some more research on my Garber info, and have another possible candidate. Hans Gerber (b. 1737, d. 1805) was the son of immigrant Hans Gerber (b. 1710, d. 1767). The elder Hans Gerber was part of an early Amish settlement in Cocalico. In 1745 he purchased property in Leacock Township from Elizabeth (Thommen) Shively and Ulrich Shively, that Elizabeth inherited from her father Jacob. Ulrich was a German Baptist, and Elizabeth's father Jacob Thommen was a member of the Ephrata Cloister. The younger Hans Gerber lived on property he purchased from his father in Earl and Warwick Townships. The info does not list the name of Hans wife. It is noted in the footnotes that Hans is possibly the John Garber at Ephrata, who was a member along with his wife. It is noteworthy that Hans had a sister Barbara (b. 1746, d. 1810) married to Henry Newcomer, and is buried in the Dunker Cemetery at Beaver Creek Maryland. So Hans has several German Baptist connections. Bill Thomas

I think you may have misdirected this email. Regards, Dick Erickson On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Dwayne Wrightsman <dwayne55@comcast.net>wrote: > To Bill Thomas and interested others, > > > > Bill, I never did get back to you about your insightful message of four > years ago (attached below), but alas I never forgot it either. Recently, I > have been trying to figure out the Garber/Garber families of the 1700s who > lived close to Ephrata and found I had to agree with your analysis except I > think the John Garber of Ephrata, listed by Morgan Edwards in 1770, was not > Hans Gerber (b. 1737, d. 1805), but rather was his father, Hans Gerber (b. > 1710, d. 1767). The father apparently died three years before 1770, but we > have no way of knowing what records were given to Morgan Edwards by the > Ephrata Community prior to 1770. > > > > The reason I do not think it was Hans Garber, the son, is because the son's > history after his father died was antithetical to Brethren ways. His life > story is described rather vividly online in "Crawford County, > Pennsylvania, Military Affairs, Revolutionary War Veterans, John Garber." > Although, it is less-dramatically described in Garver and Masters, "Gerber, > Garber, and Garver Progenitors in Pennsylvania: Part One," Pennsylvania > Mennonite Heritage, July 1999, p. 29, neither of these accounts leads me to > believe that he was a member of the Ephrata Church. > > > > The age, life experiences, and Brethren connections of Hans Gerber > (1710-1767), the father, seem to me to fit better with being a member at > Ephrata. > > > > Dwayne Wrightsman > > > > From: "William Thomas" < wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> > Subject: Re: [BRE] Who was John Garber of the Ephrata Community...ps > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:42:10 -0400 > In-Reply-To: <003b01ca3fbe$5e74a7c0$1b5df740$@net> > > > Dwayne: > > I did some more research on my Garber info, and have another possible > candidate. > > Hans Gerber (b. 1737, d. 1805) was the son of immigrant Hans Gerber (b. > 1710, d. 1767). The elder Hans Gerber was part of an early Amish settlement > in Cocalico. In 1745 he purchased property in Leacock Township from > Elizabeth (Thommen) Shively and Ulrich Shively, that Elizabeth inherited > from her father Jacob. Ulrich was a German Baptist, and Elizabeth's father > Jacob Thommen was a member of the Ephrata Cloister. The younger Hans Gerber > lived on property he purchased from his father in Earl and Warwick > Townships. The info does not list the name of Hans wife. It is noted in > the footnotes that Hans is possibly the John Garber at Ephrata, who was a > member along with his wife. It is noteworthy that Hans had a sister Barbara > (b. 1746, d. 1810) married to Henry Newcomer, and is buried in the Dunker > Cemetery at Beaver Creek Maryland. So Hans has several German Baptist > connections. > > Bill Thomas > > > ------------------------ > Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN > ------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Just found this link about Duck Creek you might like Merle http://queencitydiscovery.blogspot.com/2009/07/exploring-duck-creek.html -----Original Message----- From: Merle Rummel <cliff@nwwnet.net> To: brethren <brethren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Aug 1, 2013 12:50 pm Subject: Re: [BRE] Custer Genealogy I'm and trying to identify the parents of Catherine Custer who married John Spacht. Catherine was born 22 Aug 1797 in Somerset County, PA. She married John Spacht on 2 Apr 1820 in PA. She and John lived in Hancock County, Ohio, where she died on 5 Feb 1892. She was a member of the Brethren Church in Ohio. ***************** The Custer Family were early Mennonite, from Germantown PA (Nicholas Koster). I am a descendent of a John Custer (1736-1812), who moved to Virginia, then the Carolinas and eventually to southern Ohio. He died on Duck Creek, NE Cincinnati. His family (at least several of the children) were Brethren, likely from the Carolinas on. John went with the Pietist (Brethren) "Eternam Restoration", and is said to have been part of the first Universalist Congregation in Cincinnati. Merle C Rummel ------------------------ Search the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BRETHREN ------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRETHREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The 1800 US Census for Lancaster County, PA, identifies two Kuster families living there. Both had daughters under the age of 10. They are Henry Kuster and Michael Kuster. Anyone have any further information on these Kuster (Custer) familes? On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Richard Erickson < richardjerickson@gmail.com> wrote: > Is anyone aware of any Custers living in Lancaster County, PA, from 1790s > into early 1800s? > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Richard Erickson < > richardjerickson@gmail.com> wrote: > >> An obit in the Brethren Messenger indicate that the Catherine Custer who >> married John Spacht was born in Lancaster County, PA and NOT Somerset >> County on 22 Aug 1797. >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Richard Erickson < >> richardjerickson@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm and trying to identify the parents of Catherine Custer who married >>> John Spacht. Catherine was born 22 Aug 1797 in Somerset County, PA. She >>> married John Spacht on 2 Apr 1820 in PA. She and John lived in Hancock >>> County, Ohio, where she died on 5 Feb 1892. She was a member of the >>> Brethren Church in Ohio. This information in verified by the Spacht family >>> Bible. I know that she is NOT the daughter of George Ball Custer and >>> Catherine Leatherman. I have George Custer's will and his daughter >>> Catherine (born in 1792) married Samuel Littlel. So whose daughter is >>> she? Can anyone help? >>> >> >> >

Is anyone aware of any Custers living in Lancaster County, PA, from 1790s into early 1800s? On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Richard Erickson <richardjerickson@gmail.com > wrote: > An obit in the Brethren Messenger indicate that the Catherine Custer who > married John Spacht was born in Lancaster County, PA and NOT Somerset > County on 22 Aug 1797. > > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Richard Erickson < > richardjerickson@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I'm and trying to identify the parents of Catherine Custer who married >> John Spacht. Catherine was born 22 Aug 1797 in Somerset County, PA. She >> married John Spacht on 2 Apr 1820 in PA. She and John lived in Hancock >> County, Ohio, where she died on 5 Feb 1892. She was a member of the >> Brethren Church in Ohio. This information in verified by the Spacht family >> Bible. I know that she is NOT the daughter of George Ball Custer and >> Catherine Leatherman. I have George Custer's will and his daughter >> Catherine (born in 1792) married Samuel Littlel. So whose daughter is >> she? Can anyone help? >> > >

An obit in the Brethren Messenger indicate that the Catherine Custer who married John Spacht was born in Lancaster County, PA and NOT Somerset County on 22 Aug 1797. On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Richard Erickson < richardjerickson@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm and trying to identify the parents of Catherine Custer who married > John Spacht. Catherine was born 22 Aug 1797 in Somerset County, PA. She > married John Spacht on 2 Apr 1820 in PA. She and John lived in Hancock > County, Ohio, where she died on 5 Feb 1892. She was a member of the > Brethren Church in Ohio. This information in verified by the Spacht family > Bible. I know that she is NOT the daughter of George Ball Custer and > Catherine Leatherman. I have George Custer's will and his daughter > Catherine (born in 1792) married Samuel Littlel. So whose daughter is > she? Can anyone help? >

According to Richard Weber's Stover Brethren (2001), this Frederick Custer was the son of John and wife not given. Gale Honeyman ---- William Thomas <wbtst2@atlanticbb.net> wrote: > Custer is a name found in northern Somerset County, near the Cambria County > line. A Frederick Custer is buried in Conemaugh Township, and died in 1841 > at the age of 67 (based on a cemetery book for Conemaugh Township). He was > married to an Elizabeth Stover. There are two Custer Cemeteries in > Conemaugh Township. There are also old Custer Tombstones in the Seese > Cemetery in Paint Township, Somerset County. This cemetery has Weaver's in > it as well (a Mennonite name). You will find a number of Brethren Custer's > buried in the Berkey COB Cemetery in Paint Township. The oldest being a > Ralph Custer born in 1828. All of these cemeteries are within a few miles > of each other. > > Bill Thomas