Tom, Thanks for keeping one eye on whats going on even if you do not feel you have time to participate. My senario or strawman is an attempt to understand what everyone pretty much agrees on or what is in need of deeper study with regard to these early Breedlove families. I began some work in the LDS Family History Library in January. In May I hope to spend some time in NC and VA. If anyone wants to suggest some research locations or topics there, I would be very appreciative. When Tom said, "This whole discussion seems to be pushing back the dates of James's birth" I am not unaware of this difficulty. My question to everyone is, what are the reasonable possibilities here? Is Robert a brother of James (wife Lucretia)? Is he a brother of James (wife Mary)? Are there two Roberts? Is there another reasonable possibility? What do the facts suggest? Tom's additional information may also be helpful," To throw another wrinkle into the fray, Kindness Shorter was married 1st to John Shorter who died in 1758. Their son James Shorter married a Lucy Woodson or Childry. Their son Berry born c1779 married Sina Stembridge in Charlotte Co., VA on 2 Aug 1802. Sina was the dau of John & Mary Stembridge and this John was the brother of William Stembridge who married Kindness Breedlove. This Kindness Shorter was identified as "relict of John Shorter" in Katherin Elliot's Early Wills 1764-1765 Lunenburg Co, VA, p. 135. I presume we agree this Kindness was a Breedlove. But from which family? John Breedlove's will in Charlotte Co, VA on May 16, 1799 did not mention a Kindness. Robert's will of Dec 22, 1791 did not mention a Kindness? The Kindness b 1767 associated with Elizabeth and Sina was probably a daughter of James (wife Mary), marrried William Stembridge in 1785. So, it appears to me that Kindness Breedlove who married John Shorter is a different Kindness. Who then were her parents? Charles and Mary? James and Lucretia? Benjamin and Mary (Watkins) Breedlove? What do we know here? Bill