Bill & Jan Breedlove wrote: > Your "Au, contraire" rebuttal of my Breedloves and Damerons > presentation is an interesting massage of existing data, but I am > unable to recognize any new facts or distinguishing proof. In spite of or rather more convincing is your new evidence that there is only one adult Charles Breedlove in Greene Countty, Missouri in 1850 and he is the one on the census. > I have introduced new evidence; i.e. the File 476 Green Co, MO estate > file of Charles Breedlove, deceased May 03, 1852 and the file 1895 > Webster Co, MO estate file of James K. Dameron, deceased Dec 10, 1885. > Without considering this new and enlightening detail, I fear your > argument is incomplete. There is not one shred of evidence in either of these files that gives any information concerning Charles' parents, age or place of birth. Abstracts of both of these have been long published and so have the WFT Vol 7, Families #505 and 2100, and Vol 11, Family #934 that lists all of the James K. Dameron family. There wasn't anything new in the complete files that I didn't already know, though there were some interestingg details, but nothing new in the way of proof of relationships. > Your confusion is from your reluctance to consider that in 1852 there > are two adult Charles Breedloves and two adult James Breedloves, (and > perhaps more than one Amelia). I have never said there weren't two James breedlove's just that the older one was not there in Green in 1850. Possibly he's the J. Breedlove age 27 born NC in Taney Co., MO. The only other Charles that is mentioned in Green that early is the son of William, but there is no evidence that this son ever lived in Green County. The probate of William's estate does not say where this son Charles was living or received his payments or even if he actually received any payments. All of the documents you sent had the signatures of all the other heirs receiving their portions, but none for the son Charles, which would indicate that he is dead and payments were made to his heirs. > The Charles and James from NC are probably the children of James and > Nancy Simmons Breedlove of NC (no evidence of their living in TN), > with other children being Spencer, John, and Eliza. One could argue > it's an easy fit, but the ages of Spencer, John, James, and Eliza in > MO do not violate the 1820 census for James Breedlove in Rutherford > Co, NC. Nowhere is there any proof that there was a son Charles, period! There were four sons as shown on the 1820 census of Rutherford, and I will agree that James, Spencer and John are three of them and that Eliza is one of the three daughters. > The Charles and James from TN are the children of William and > Amy Breedlove. I will agree that the James from Tennessee is he son of William, but I am not positive about the Charles from Tennessee according to the 1850 census, see below. > That the wife of Charles Breedlove (deceased in 1852) is from NC is > supported by her father James K. Dameron, Administrator, also from NC > and the 1840 Caswell Co, NC census for James K. Dameron is an exact > fit for the Dameron children on your family group sheet. Charles and > Amelia Breedlove on the 1850 Greene Co, MO census are both from TN. That is not necessarily true and is probably in error. The census taker might have asked where they came from and they said Tennessee, which they probably did stop in on the way from North Carolina. They might have asked the two White siblings if Charles and Amelia weren't home and because they were from Tennessee and had heard Charles talk about family in Tennessee, they assumed they were from there and told the census taker that the Breedloves were from Tennessee. That is only one reason birth places given on these early censuses are highly suspect. Those for Spencer's children are wrong, too. > Finally, File 476 Greene Co, MO probate for Charles Breedlove estate, > deceased May 03, 1852, contains a note by John Breedlove for Eliza > Breedlove with Charles Breedlove and Spencer Breedlove as security and > dated on Sep 06, 1837, repeat Sep 06, 1837. In 1856 James Breedlove > signs a similar note for Eliza with John Breedlove as security. This > is the considerate, responsible conduct of brothers and sisters. Your entire argument falls on this one note that is ACTUALLY DATED SEP 6, 1851, NOT 1837!!!!! This is file #134 in the Guardian Bond Book. Those for #132 and 133, the two just before it are dated Sep 4 and Sep 6, 1851 respectively. The copy of the note in the estate file is either a forgery or someone changed the date on it or you are not reading it correctly. Granted that is the conduct of brothers wanting to insure for their sister's future, there is nothing that says that any of these brothers were living in Green County, nor is there any requirement in law, that they should be residents of the county. Only the principal guardian John must be a resident. Spencer was still in Tennessee in 1837 through at least 1840 when he was on the census here. The birth place of most of his children given on the 1850 census of North Carolina is most likely wrong and should be Tennessee. He was married in Roane in 1834 and is there in 1840 so I doubt seriously if he kept going back to NC to have his children. > However, the Charles Breedlove on the 1850 census (age 28) would have > been only age 15 in 1837 and hardly eligible to be security on a legal > note for guardianship. These are two distinctly different Charles > Breedloves, and probably cousins. This fails in the face of the actual date of the guardian note. This Charles was living closer to Spencer and John in 1850 than he was to William and his sons James and William, but that too is inconclusive without a study of the deed records. Did you happen to copy the index to deeds for any Breedlove transactions? The names and ages of this Charles, his wife and daughter all fit exactly with the Charles who died in 1852, including all of the estate records for James K. Dameron. I stand on my original statement, that the Charles Breedlove on the 1850 census of Green County is the same Charles Breedlove who died in 1852. Whether he was born in NC or TN is debatable. If he was born in NC then he most likely is the son of James & Nancy Simmons Breedlove. if he was born in Tennessee, then he could still be James and Nancy''s or he could be William and Amy's. The odds of finding another Charles Breedlove in Green county matching the one who died in 1852 on the 1850 census is highly unlikely. I have scanned each page of that census for any Charles and only one had a wife Milly and 4 kids, two Charles that had daughters named Mary born in PA or IL. Same results with the printed version. What hasn't been looked at are the Tax records to see if there are two separate listings for that time for a Charles Breedlove. Tom