This could also have applied to Presbyterians from Derry. My Crossan ancestors (sorry, I know this is a Boyd forum, but this is applicable to this particular topic) who I know were living in Carrydarragh near Moneymore in Derry when my great-grandfather was born in 1860, were in Old Monkland, Lanarkshire when his younger brother was born in 1863. The family was back in Ulster by 1866 when the third child was born in Cookstown. My great-great-grandmother died sometime after this, and my great-great-grandfather remarried in 1872, following which they all returned to Lanark, where 5 more children were born. Most of the descendants of these 8 children had links to the Presbyterian Church, in Scotland, Australia and Canada, with some connections to the Anglican Church as well. The first mentioned ancestors were married in the 2nd Presbyterian Church in Moneymore. Another Irish line, McClelland, from the Ballymena area of Antrim (and with a Boyd connection) were strongly Presbyterian. I have information to indicate that at least one of my great-grandfather's siblings went to Glasgow, though there is no evidence that this was for the purpose of receiving a Scottish Presbyterian baptism, as the family remained in Glasgow. The Boyd connection to this family is through the marriage of my great-grandfather's sister, Eliza Jane McClelland with William Boyd of Ballymena. Sandra Hass 6. Re: [AYR] Did County Antrim Presbyterian cross to Argyllshire to Christian th... ([email protected]) 7. Re: [AYR] Did County Antrim Presbyterian cross to Argyllshire to Christian their children? (Cliff. Johnston) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:34:44 -0500 (EST) From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BOYD] [AYR] Did County Antrim Presbyterian cross to Argyllshire to Christian th... To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The Campbelltown area in Argyllshire was a refuge for persecuted Presbyterians from Ayrshire in the 17th century. A branch of the Howies from Fenwick settled there. There was also a lot of going back and forth between Ulster and Ayrshire... some from northern Ireland settled at Fenwick in William Guthrie's day. Campbelltown would be similarly accessible. I know that in the later 18th century the Presbyterians in Ulster were nearly as marginalized (legally speaking) as the Catholics, because the aristocracy were members of the then "established" Church of Ireland (i.e. Episcopal). That dated from the era of the Glorious Revolution under William and Mary, but on back to the Stuart Restoration as well. I've not heard of Presbyterians not being allowed to baptize or bury folks in Ulster, but I've not done extensive research. In Scotland the only restriction was really on marriage, folks in the non-established denominations still had to have the "banns" proclaimed in the official parish kirk. It is virtually impossible to find surviving records of Presbyterian churches in Ulster. I have a general idea where my Gibson line may have come from in Ulster... but that's it. My spouse's Lindsay line were Church of Ireland before emigrating, and we have more info. on them... back to King Billy's army. The discrimination against poor Presbyterians in Ulster is why so many... whole congregations at times... left for America (Pennsylvania and South Carolina, in particular) in the latter part of the 18th century. Ken C. In a message dated 1/25/2014 2:26:05 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: One book that I found during my trip to the USA in June 2013 that was new to me was called ?The Boyd Family of Pike County, Missouri, The Ancestors and Descendants of John Warren Boyd and Rosalea Helen Baxter, by Mary Ellen Boyd and Herbert Eugene (Gene) Boyd, 2008. I an section dealing with the Sharp Family origins of this book, there was discussion if some members of this family were born in County Antrim or Argyllshire, as they had been Christened at Campbelltown, Arygllshire in the early and mid 1700?s. I am sure that other sections on spouse families also mentioned a similar problem. So the questioned need to be asked ?when Presbyterian Church were not allowed to Christian, marry or bury their members in Ireland did they travel from northern County Antrim and Londonderry to the Presbyterian Churches in Kintyre, Argyllshire ? such as Campbelltown and Southend? I can?t recall what year in the 1700?s that Presbyterian?s were allowed to undertake Church functions and not use the Church of Ireland Churches? So did people living in Northern Ulster, go to Argyllshire for to have their children Christened within the various sects of the Presbyterian Church. With Southend only being about 40 kms from Ballycastle by sea. I assume that people from Larne, Carrickfergus and eastern County Down would have either gone to Ayrshire or a Wigtonshire Churches? So will this mean that while the family actually lived in Ulster, their Church records will be in those nearby Scottish Counties? This book mentions a number of Scottish families, including Wallace, Fullerton, Sharp, Alexander, McCullock, and McKnights. A number of these sound to be good Ayrshire names. I will have to do some further research to see which of these families went from Ulster, to York County, PA, down to Iredell County, North Carolina, Trigg County Kentucky and then onto Pike County, Missouri, but from a very quick read it seems that most of these families intermarried over the generations and through the above migration trail. Do any members know if this actually happened? Thank you Mike Boyd Historical Committee House of Boyd Society ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BOYD] [AYR] Did County Antrim Presbyterian cross to Argyllshire to Christian th... To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I should have noted... the Campbell Marquises, later Dukes, of Argyll were ardent Presbyterians from the Reformation on, and supporters of the Covenanters. So their lands became a place of refuge for those in less friendly settings during the various conflicts and struggles. Ken C. In a message dated 1/25/2014 7:38:05 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: The Campbelltown area in Argyllshire was a refuge for persecuted Presbyterians from Ayrshire in the 17th century. A branch of the Howies from Fenwick settled there. There was also a lot of going back and forth between Ulster and Ayrshire... some from northern Ireland settled at Fenwick in William Guthrie's day. Campbelltown would be similarly accessible. I know that in the later 18th century the Presbyterians in Ulster were nearly as marginalized (legally speaking) as the Catholics, because the aristocracy were members of the then "established" Church of Ireland (i.e. Episcopal). That dated from the era of the Glorious Revolution under William and Mary, but on back to the Stuart Restoration as well. I've not heard of Presbyterians not being allowed to baptize or bury folks in Ulster, but I've not done extensive research. In Scotland the only restriction was really on marriage, folks in the non-established denominations still had to have the "banns" proclaimed in the official parish kirk. It is virtually impossible to find surviving records of Presbyterian churches in Ulster. I have a general idea where my Gibson line may have come from in Ulster... but that's it. My spouse's Lindsay line were Church of Ireland before emigrating, and we have more info. on them... back to King Billy's army. The discrimination against poor Presbyterians in Ulster is why so many... whole congregations at times... left for America (Pennsylvania and South Carolina, in particular) in the latter part of the 18th century. Ken C. In a message dated 1/25/2014 2:26:05 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: One book that I found during my trip to the USA in June 2013 that was new to me was called ?The Boyd Family of Pike County, Missouri, The Ancestors and Descendants of John Warren Boyd and Rosalea Helen Baxter, by Mary Ellen Boyd and Herbert Eugene (Gene) Boyd, 2008. I an section dealing with the Sharp Family origins of this book, there was discussion if some members of this family were born in County Antrim or Argyllshire, as they had been Christened at Campbelltown, Arygllshire in the early and mid 1700?s. I am sure that other sections on spouse families also mentioned a similar problem. So the questioned need to be asked ?when Presbyterian Church were not allowed to Christian, marry or bury their members in Ireland did they travel from northern County Antrim and Londonderry to the Presbyterian Churches in Kintyre, Argyllshire ? such as Campbelltown and Southend? I can?t recall what year in the 1700?s that Presbyterian?s were allowed to undertake Church functions and not use the Church of Ireland Churches? So did people living in Northern Ulster, go to Argyllshire for to have their children Christened within the various sects of the Presbyterian Church. With Southend only being about 40 kms from Ballycastle by sea. I assume that people from Larne, Carrickfergus and eastern County Down would have either gone to Ayrshire or a Wigtonshire Churches? So will this mean that while the family actually lived in Ulster, their Church records will be in those nearby Scottish Counties? This book mentions a number of Scottish families, including Wallace, Fullerton, Sharp, Alexander, McCullock, and McKnights. A number of these sound to be good Ayrshire names. I will have to do some further research to see which of these families went from Ulster, to York County, PA, down to Iredell County, North Carolina, Trigg County Kentucky and then onto Pike County, Missouri, but from a very quick read it seems that most of these families intermarried over the generations and through the above migration trail. Do any members know if this actually happened? Thank you Mike Boyd Historical Committee House of Boyd Society ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:17:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Cliff. Johnston" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [BOYD] [AYR] Did County Antrim Presbyterian cross to Argyllshire to Christian their children? To: Mike Boyd <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mike, Years ago I came across some oral family history which said that some of our Presbyterian Johnstons who were in Ireland and C. of I. for convenience's sake?still went back to Scotland and their Presbyterian Church to have marriages and baptisms sanctified there.? When I posted this on some internet sites some 10 or more years ago?the response was quite negative, i.e.:? Why would they go all the way back to Scotland to do that when it could have been done in Ireland someplace easier and cheaper?? Well, the answer is that they still had their strong belief system in place, and they also visited family while in Scotland.? It was a double bonus trip :-) Cliff. ________________________________ From: Mike Boyd <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 3:21 AM Subject: [AYR] Did County Antrim Presbyterian cross to Argyllshire to Christian their children? One book that I found during my trip to the USA in June 2013 that was new to me was called ?The Boyd Family of Pike County, Missouri, The Ancestors and Descendants of John Warren Boyd and Rosalea Helen Baxter, by Mary Ellen Boyd and Herbert Eugene (Gene) Boyd, 2008.? I an section dealing with the Sharp Family origins of this book, there was discussion if some members of this family were born in County Antrim or Argyllshire, as they had been Christened at Campbelltown, Arygllshire in the early and mid 1700?s.? I am sure that other sections on spouse families also mentioned a similar problem. So the questioned need to be asked ?when Presbyterian Church were not allowed to Christian, marry or bury their members in Ireland did they travel from northern County Antrim and Londonderry to the Presbyterian Churches in Kintyre, Argyllshire ? such as Campbelltown and Southend? I can?t recall what year in the 1700?s that Presbyterian?s were allowed to undertake Church functions and not use the Church of Ireland Churches? So did people living in Northern Ulster, go to Argyllshire for to have their children Christened within the various sects of the Presbyterian Church.? With Southend only being about 40 kms from Ballycastle by sea. I assume that people from Larne, Carrickfergus and eastern County Down would have either gone to Ayrshire or a Wigtonshire Churches? So will this mean that while the family actually lived in Ulster, their Church records will be in those nearby Scottish Counties? This book mentions a number of Scottish families, including Wallace, Fullerton, Sharp, Alexander, McCullock, and McKnights.? A number of these sound to be good Ayrshire names.? I will have to do some further research to see which of these families went from Ulster, to York County, PA, down to Iredell County, North Carolina, Trigg County Kentucky and then onto Pike County, Missouri, but from a very quick read it seems that most of these families intermarried over the generations and through the above migration trail. Do any members know if this actually happened? Thank you Mike Boyd Historical Committee House of Boyd Society ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------