** It might be useful to add that the following site offers free access to a number of 18th and 19th century magazines: <http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ilej/> Best wishes, Gordon Johnson

hi folks, hope youre all well. here are a few deaths and an ecclesiatical preferment [added because it tied in with one of the deaths] The Annual Register 1827 Deaths: > PITT: on 14th Jan on Shoddon-gate, Carlisle, after a long illness, aged 73, Mr WM. PITT. He possessed various scientific acquirements, and employed his leisure in philosophical recreations; his meteorological observations were singularly accurate, and he usually communicated to the Monthly Magazine. > OLIVE: on 16th Jan at Berwick-hill, NBL, aged 104, Mrs BARBARA OLIVE. > BLAKE: on 23rd Mar, in Sloan st, aged 73, Elizabeth dowager lady BLAKE. She was the only dau. of ALEX. DOUGLAS esq., of the British Settlement at Bussorah, in Persia, & widow of Sir FRANCIS BLAKE, the late and 2nd baronet of Twizel-castle NBL. She was mother of Sir Francis, the resent baronet, and MP for Berwick; lieut.-gen. ROBERT DUDLEY BLAKE, one other son, and four daughters, the youngest of whom married in 1805 to BETHELL EARNSHAW STAG, of Holmworth in YKS, esq. Only 10 days after this lady's death, Apr. 3, her dau-in-law, the wife of the present baronet, died in Sloane-street. Their remains were conveyed together to be interred in the family vault in NBL. > JACKSON: on 6th Apr., at Thursby, nr Carlisle, aged 76, ROBERT JACKSON, MD, Inspector of military hospitals, and for many years chief of the medical dept., in the West Indies. A long obit in "The Gentleman's mag 1827, pg.566." and I'll be happy to e-mail a copy should anyone require it, but only if you include these reference details – i have no index.. > THOMPSON: on 7th May in Caldewgate, Carlisle, Mr JOS. THOMPSON, aged 100. > GOODENOUGH: on 26th May, in Berners-st., Mrs GOODENOUGH, wife of the Bishop of Carlisle. > ANSON: on 7th June in Stanhope-st., aged 56, the venerable CHARLES ANSON, archdeacon of Carlisle, uncle of viscount ANSON, and half-nephew of the archbishop of York. He was the 3rd s. of GEORGE ANSON of Sambrook, Shropshire, esq., by MARY, d. of GEORGE VENABLES, 1st lord VERNON; he was a scholar of Christ church, Oxford, MA 1795. > MUSGRAVE: on 26th June, at Eden Hall, CUR, aged 33, sir PHILIP CHRISTOPHER MUSGRAVE, 8th bart. of that place, MP for Carlisle, a JP for CUR, WES & WRY, alderman of Carlisle &c. He was the eldest s. of JOHN CHARDIN, the 7th and late bart., by MARY, d. of the rev. Mr EDWARD FILMER, 6th and late bart., of East Sutton, KEN. He succeeded his father 24 Jly 1806; and was first returned to parliament as MP for Petersfield ca.1819. He was chosen for that borough at the general election of 1820, and obtained the representation of Carlisle on the death of sir JAMES GRAHAM, bart., in 1825. Sir PHILIP married 21 Oct., 1824, ELIZABETH, 3rd d. of GEORGE FLUDYER, of Ayston in RUT, esq, formerly MP for Appleby. > SCOTT: on 20 Jly at Woodside, nr Kelso, aged 92, Lady DIANA SCOTT, relict of WALTER SCOTT, esq., of Harden. She was the last survivor of the issue of Hugh, 3rd earl of Marchmont, who died in 1794, and was the grt gr'daughter of Sir Patrick Home, Polwarth > THOMSON: on 16 Aug, in Abbey-st., Carlisle, aged 21, Miss RUTH THOMSON, teacher of drawing, &c. Her flower-drawings are amongst the finest productions of the pencil in that line of art. Gentleman's Magazine 1827 Deaths: > ROBERTSON: on 4 Dec 1826, at Radcliffe Observatory, Oxford, aged 75, ABRAM ROBERTSON, DD, FRS, Savilian Prof. of Astronomy, & Superintendent of Radcliffe Observatory. Dr ROBERTSON was b. at Dunse, Berwick, 4 Nov., 1751. He had a school at Grt Ryle NBL, and afterwards in his native place. In 1789, Mr ROBERTSON was presented by the Dean & Canons of Christchurch to the Vicarage of Ravensthorpe, and soon after married Miss BACON of Drayton BRK. There's tons to this obit and certainly no room for it here, but i have a copy of it, so if anyone wishes it, let me know and I'll send it by direct attachment but only iof you include these ref. details: "Gentleman's Magazine 1827j-j pg.176" as there's is no index in the book. It's a marvellous obit, all his qualifications and even a physical description of him :-) oh, that all obits were as full as his one! :-) 1827: > RULE: on 9 Jan 1827 at Battlebridge, aged 100, MARGARET, relict of Mr JOHN RULE, of Berwick-on-Tweed. > ADAMSON: 13 Mar at Whitehaven, aged 98, Mrs MARGARET ADAMSON. She was present at the execution of the rebels ar Carlisle in 1745. > GRAHAM: on 11 Apr., aged 32, Wm RICHARDSON GRAHAM, esq., eldest s. of the late JAS. GRAHAM, esq., of Richardby, nr Carlisle > BELL: on 27 June, at Alnwick, THOS. BELL,esq., Solicitor > BERRY: on 12 Feb at Berwick, aged 77, Wm BERRY, esq., of Whitsom-hill, Banker, of the firm of BATSON, BERRY & Co. Ecclesiastical Preferment, 1827: > Dr HUGH PERCY, to be bp. of Carlisle, vice GOODENOUGH Cheers folks :-) le durachd fionnghal ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk

Hi Rosemary, Thanks for your prompt response. Is the book you have indexed? I'd like to hear about any Murrays or Turnbulls listed as well as any other interesting facts and stories. Thanks! Joan

Hi - I do not have MIs for Lilliesleaf, but, if you are interested, I do have a book (published 1913) on the history of the parish, the churches, the schools and schoolmasters, and the people and occupations. It narrates: " in 1890 a public conveyance, subsidised by the Post office, began to ply between Belses and Lilliesleaf...we have been fortunate in our mail contractor, JAMES TURNBULL, who for nearly a quarter of a century, has made himself a favourite by his obliging dispostition, steady habit, and moderate charges. It is difficult to realise what we should be without "Jamie the Post". ... Lots more if you are interested in how your ancestors lived! Rosemary Morrison

Hello Everyone, I have been researching the above mentioned couple who were married at Lilliesleaf, Roxburgh in 1843. They had a son Thomas who was born at Lilliesleaf in 1838 and I found Thomas on the 1841 census living with the Arnos family in the same parish. I have not been able to find either Alexander Murray, who was reported to be a cattle dealer, or Janet Turnbull on this census. Following their marriage in 1843, Alexander and Janet subsequently produced Jessie in 1843, Margaret in 1847 and John in 1850. The family was living at Lilliesleaf when the 1851 census was taken. Walter and William, two of Alexander's brothers were living with them. Although there was approximately a 20-year-age difference between Alexander and Janet, Janet predeceased Alexander for he was a widower when the 1861 census was taken. I have attempted to find her death registration on the ScotlandsPeople site but was not successful, which made me conclude that Janet died prior to 1855. I don't have access to the later censuses so I don't have a clue as to when Alexander died but he was said to be 73 on the '61 census. Does anyone have MIs for this area? If so, could you please check to see if you can find Alexander Murray and Janet Turnbull. Thanks for any interest and/or information. Regards, Joan, ON. Canada

Hello As a decendent of my Mother who was English and my Father who was Scotch I am very interested to be able to get all the Data on family and petition the goverment Wally Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: "fionnghal nicphadraig" <fionnghalnicphadraig@yahoo.co.uk> To: "BORDER-L" <BORDER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:52 AM Subject: [BORDER] petition for full early release of 1911 census >a chance to petition the Prime Minister to reduce the > classified period for census data from 100 years to 70 > years. only 8,844 have signed to date 8.30am 22 Jan > '07 [available for sigining by British citizens or > residents only i'm afraid] > > http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/censusinfofreed > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out > more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. > http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BORDER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

i've just received a Times clipping and spotted these 2 marriages so thought i'd log them here for future researchers. Coming Marriages. bear in mind they aren't proof that the marriages actually took place. anything can come between a prior notice and the marriage itself: jilting, death.. so you'd need to verify the details. The Times, Tues 27 Jul 1897, pg.10 Issues 35266, col.E > a marriage is arranged, and will take place the end of sept., between Mr ALEC DALGLISH & Miss MARY MAXWELL SCOTT,eldest dau of the Hon J & Mrs MAXWELL SCOTT, of Abbotsford, Melrose, N.B. [NB = North Britain ie: Scotland] > a marriage has neen arranged between Mr F.B.T. TREVELYAN, yngst s. of Mr THORNTON R TREVELYAN of Netherwitton-hall, NBL, and Miss L WATTS, yngst d. of Mr PHILIP WATTS, of Newcastle-on-Tyne. [pity they ised initials here!] hope you're all well and that these small offerings prove of use to someone sometime le durachd :-) fionnghal ___________________________________________________________ Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html

Looking for anyone researchin or having knowledge of Robert E Turnbull born abt 1853 in Hobkirk to david Turnbull & his wife Mary Elliot (both born Jedburgh) Robert married Jane Ballantyne Alison in Calgary

HI Thanks for the replies. She was at least 70 in 1841 so it is unlikely that she married again but I will consider it. She was a northumbrian by birth but her family or at least some of them were Scottish which is why it is possible that they took her to their homes to bury her. We have 36 variations of the surname Romaines so far - and counting!! And we have tried them all so far - although we haven't done anything that doesn't begin with an R so if anyone has any instances of the letter R being transposed to something else then that would help enormously. I haven't found her in the scotland's people lists under any variation after 1855 and as she would have been at least 85 it is unlikely although it is possible and would be fantastic if it was the case. I haven't found any MI's which match this family until much later and I don't think this particular part of the Romanes family had any - although others had oodles and were based in the same locations. Lauder, Berwick, Jedburgh, Melrose and Kelso are the most common places for them to be found, although this is not an exclusive list. They did end up in Edinburgh and environs occasionally. Thanks again for the suggestions. Will keep looking. In the meantime I think that the only way is to send for the certificate. Even if it is not her, it might be family and give some clues as to location. Mandy Buchanan

** I apologise to all, for not reading the original query properly ( I have the flu), and so I blethered about Registrars when the period was probably earlier than Civil Registration. Mea Culpa! My comments on the name spelling is still warranted, but as the existing indexes are primarily Established Church registers, consider that the family may have been of another denomination at the time of any event (Roman Catholic/ /Quaker/ Baptist/). many Church of Scotland parish churches failed to keep proper registers of death; I suspect that Church of England parish could similarly be remiss. It is worth asking about death/burial registers for the parishes you identify with the family. English civil registration began in 1837, but for many years was not compulsory. Gordon.

Mandy wrote here: > I have an Isabella Burrell born circa 1771 - we believe in Warenford, > Northumberland although this is not proven at the moment. She married? A > William Romaines and we found them living in Kilham in 1841 census. William > Romaines died not long after the census was taken - his death certificate > says he died in Kilham. Isabella has completely disappeared. She may have re-married in which case you have a third surname to contemplate! > It is unusual for this family not to register someone - they seemed really > keen on the idea with all other members of the family. Registration is often a 'personal' duty not subject to family pressure. The Law had significant pressure of course. > > It is possible that she died in Scotland and so it would be difficult to > locate her if that was the case, If she died in SCT after 1855 you could be lucky, since the Deaths Index normally gives both maiden surname and married surname. > ......however all of the family stayed on the > Northumberland side of the border until the late 1850's so this is unlikely. If she was a "good" Scot she may have hurried hame!! > What do you think - is it worth me sending for this Isabella Burrell death > certificate or is this really unlikely? Don't know, sorry. Alistair

** Mandy - it is much more likely that the surname was spelled differently at the registrars, depending on how literate the informant was. The more common version was Romanes, but you could get Romannes, Romanis, even Romans; and a dozen other spellings... The regulations required a married woman to be registered under her married surname, even if the marriage was "by habit and repute" (which was legal in Scotland until recently). Gordon. (Mandy Buchanan) wrote: > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:17:01 -0000 > From: "Mandy Buchanan" <mysticmandy_gingerwitch@hotmail.com> > Subject: [BORDER] Isabella Burrell or Romaines > To: <border@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <BAY115-DAV3961EA0FDE501989BE13B87920@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi > > > > I was hoping that someone would be able to help me. > > > > I have an Isabella Burrell born circa 1771 - we believe in Warenford, > Northumberland although this is not proven at the moment. She married? A > William Romaines and we found them living in Kilham in 1841 census. William > Romaines died not long after the census was taken - his death certificate > says he died in Kilham. Isabella has completely disappeared. > > > > It is unusual for this family not to register someone - they seemed really > keen on the idea with all other members of the family. > > > > It is possible that she died in Scotland and so it would be difficult to > locate her if that was the case, however all of the family stayed on the > Northumberland side of the border until the late 1850's so this is unlikely. > > > > I have found a death registered of an Isabella Burrell in 1844 in Glendale > and was wondering if anyone has come across an instance of a woman who had > Scottish relatives but was not Scottish herself being registered under her > maiden name. Of course it is possible that she and William were not married > at all - we have never found the record anyway - and so the family were > being very honest when they registered her. I know that Scottish women never > really lose their maiden names and I have found several instances of married > women being enumerated under their maiden names in the census returns of > 1841 in particular. > > > > What do you think - is it worth me sending for this Isabella Burrell death > certificate or is this really unlikely? > > > > Thanks for your help > > > > Regards > > Mandy Buchanan > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the BORDER list administrator, send an email to > BORDER-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the BORDER mailing list, send an email to BORDER@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BORDER-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of BORDER Digest, Vol 2, Issue 25 > ************************************* >

Hi listerers, this is my first time subscribing to your list, I am from Sunderland originally but not now as can be seen from my sig block, through researching my family tree I have discovered that my GG Mother was born in Elsdon NBL on the c28 April 1838, there were three births registered around that time, surnames were; Ballentyne, Jackson & Wallace. But I cannot nail down which one she was for definite, the only thing I have for certain is when she married and who she married Walter Smith b.6 Apr 1834 - m Sarah * Sep 1856 It's a bit like using a double barrel shotgun to kill a flea, but can anyone help? Chris Smith Wellington NZ

Hi I was hoping that someone would be able to help me. I have an Isabella Burrell born circa 1771 - we believe in Warenford, Northumberland although this is not proven at the moment. She married? A William Romaines and we found them living in Kilham in 1841 census. William Romaines died not long after the census was taken - his death certificate says he died in Kilham. Isabella has completely disappeared. It is unusual for this family not to register someone - they seemed really keen on the idea with all other members of the family. It is possible that she died in Scotland and so it would be difficult to locate her if that was the case, however all of the family stayed on the Northumberland side of the border until the late 1850's so this is unlikely. I have found a death registered of an Isabella Burrell in 1844 in Glendale and was wondering if anyone has come across an instance of a woman who had Scottish relatives but was not Scottish herself being registered under her maiden name. Of course it is possible that she and William were not married at all - we have never found the record anyway - and so the family were being very honest when they registered her. I know that Scottish women never really lose their maiden names and I have found several instances of married women being enumerated under their maiden names in the census returns of 1841 in particular. What do you think - is it worth me sending for this Isabella Burrell death certificate or is this really unlikely? Thanks for your help Regards Mandy Buchanan

Hi Chris, FreeBMD has Walter SMITH marrying Sarah JACKSON in Sep Qtr 1856 @ Bellingham, Northumberland Best regards Dale Utterson Derbyshire UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris smith" <clkts@paradise.net.nz> To: "BORDER@rootsweb. com" <BORDER@rootsweb.com>; "EAST-MARCHES@rootsweb. com" <EAST-MARCHES@rootsweb.com>; "ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L" <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com>; "NORTHUMBRIA-L" <NORTHUMBRIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:21 PM Subject: [BORDER] elsdon birth > Hi listerers, this is my first time subscribing to your list, I am from > Sunderland originally but not now as can be seen from my sig block, > through > researching my family tree I have discovered that my GG Mother was born in > Elsdon NBL on the c28 April 1838, there were three births registered > around > that time, surnames were; Ballentyne, Jackson & Wallace. But I cannot nail > down which one she was for definite, the only thing I have for certain is > when she married and who she married > > Walter Smith b.6 Apr 1834 - m Sarah * Sep 1856 > > It's a bit like using a double barrel shotgun to kill a flea, but can > anyone > help? > > > Chris Smith > Wellington NZ > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BORDER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks to Norma Dalgleish I have made some progress with my SCOTT query. Is anyone researching the family of Andrew Scott & Isabella Grieve who were married in 1843 in Kirkton, Rox. They had a number of children including Thomas born 1857 in Kirkton. He married Margaret Ballantyne in 1882 in Roberton Next I have a family photograph of John Scott (Thomas had an elder brother named John) & Margaret Ballantyne at Whitlawhaugh near Stobs camp date circa 1914. Maybe Thomas died and she was housekeeping for John, maybe the family put the wrong name on the photo. If anyone knows anything about this family or the Arnotts of Kirkton I would love to hear from them Alison

Hello Joan, The entry you are looking for reads as follows: Lilliesleaf Parish, Book 1, Page 4 Lilliesleaf Village — 4 rooms, 2 scholars Alexander Murray; Head; Widower; 73; Cattle Dealer; Selkirk, Brownmoor Janet Murray; Daughter; Unmarried; 17; Roxburgh, Lilliesleaf Margaret Murray; Daughter; 12; Scholar; Roxburgh, Lilliesleaf John Murray; Son; 10; Scholar; Roxburgh, Lilliesleaf Walter Murray; Brother; Unmarried; 70; Ag Lab; Selkirk, Howford I have looked at the original and the daughter is clearly 12 not 42. Hope this helps, Graham Maxwell Graham Maxwell Ancestry Cleughside Kirkpatrick Fleming Lockerbie DG11 3NG Tel: +44 1461 800383 Web: www.maxwellancestry.com Email: info@maxwellancestry.com

Hello Graham, Thank you so much for checking this for me! While I'm disappointed that he was a widower and particularly because it now appears that his wife died prior to civil registration, I at least have a proper transcript. I have had very little to go on with this family other than the various censuses so I'm delighted to learn that Margaret was enumerated as 12 and not 42. With this info I know that I do have the right family. Thank you again. I appreciate! Regards, Joan, ON. Canada

Hi Everyone, Is there anyone that can check the 1861 Census for Lilliesleaf, Roxburghshire for me. I have been using Ancestry.com to view the census but it doesn't give the marital status :-( for Alexander Murray, age 73 who is listed in ED#1, Household #25. I would like to know the marital status of Alexander. Also, is Margaret Murray listed as his daughter really age 42? Thanks for any help! Regards, Joan, ON, Canada

I am looking for information on John SCOTT born probably circa 1860 Said to have built Whitlawhaugh circa 1901 (seen on Stobbs Camp internet site, just SW of Hawick) He is thought to have had 3 children LIZZIE, ROBERT, ISABELLA. Isabella married BURGESS and they had a son Alfred I have a family photograph (same as one on Stobbs site) dated circa 1914 showing John Scott and a grt aunt of mine Margaret Ballantyne. I would like more info on John & Margaret please Alison