Contact me off list for a copy of Trend's latest e-mail attachment virus alert. Al

Greetings, I am researching the family of Willaim Stobie and Mary E. Wallace. My records have it that he was a widower with 3 kids and a Solicitor in Inverleithan. He had 2 children with Mary; Kathleen and Mary. If anybody can help, it would mean a lot. Regards, David

>If you live in the U.S. I have a website for a company in California and >also a telelphone number for Vancouver, Canada. They are quite cheap >compared to the UK prices. >I was going to get one until someone said that it wouldn't have been for all >the Lindores' only the individual Lindores at that time (1400's). >Give it a try. > I'm afraid that's true for all UK-linked heraldry - it belongs to specific people and not to a surname in general. There's no such thing as a coat of arms for everybody of a given name. Lesley Robertson

I am willing to go into Hawick Library and copy out the Hobkirk biography. It would probably be next month before I get there though. Marjorie -----Original Message----- From: BORDER-D-request@rootsweb.com <BORDER-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: BORDER-D@rootsweb.com <BORDER-D@rootsweb.com> Date: 10 June 2000 21:00 Subject: BORDER-D Digest V00 #168

http://www.paterson-selkirk.freeserve.co.uk/index.htm Keith Paterson from Selkirk has just revamped his website and has added about 60 old photos. I am really impressed. Go to the url above and click on auld photographs. If you run your mouse over the enlarged photos, a little pop up will tell you what the photo is of. Monica MonicaWorks Web Design www.gulfislands.com/monicaworks/ hogg@gulfislands.com

AL The reason one might want a date calculator is to convert dates from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar systems, and vice versa? When England changed dating systems, as an example, a person who was born/died in Old Time,does not have the same current date as their present new anniversary. Also, Parish Records dating did not follow the calendar year, at one time, the opening of a new year being set as Lady Day, not January 1st. This means that it can appear that marriage dates and the date of birth of issue seem to suggest that the bride was (considerably) pregnant, at the time of the vows.My recall is that the C of E did not modernize until very early in 1804, when the new system of registrations took place, and was after that made standard. There are a number of sites with calculators (some of which can be downloaded) and a good engine one use is www.google.com to locate one and to read about the issues involved. PS: Many people do not realize that some of the popular Family software databases - including Generations and Family Tree Maker, might automatically convert dates from OT to NT without the user being aware of this sly manipulation! Both programs have a preference tool, so that one can turn the converter off or on - if one started out with one or the other, changing the preferences does not alter the already entered records. I'll bet that maybe only one person in 50 realizes that the UK dating system changed, in modern times in the mid 1700's - and that there were a number of previous changes too, to bring the calendars in step with real, solar time! -----Original Message----- From: b1caez01 [mailto:b1caez01@home.com] Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 11:55 AM To: BORDER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Date Calculator A while ago, I requested help in finding a calculator which would assist in establishing a birth date, when you know the death date and the information from a tomb stone. The following url is just the ticket...although I have not tried it yet. I am going to file it until I can recall why I needed it...old age, you know! Al Dempster http://web2.airmail.net/bhende19/b-date.htm

Listers: forewarned is forearmed. Apologies to the list owner, but this may be of benefit to everyone. I just watched a TV program on this very topic. Be very suspicious of any of these companies...not my words but the comentator's. Do your own research and do your own affirmations before you commit to anything. I did the very same thing some years ago. Here is the sequence I followed. I went to one of the Gatherings that pock mark every Scottish community here in Canada, some 20 years ago. There was a "booth" there, run by an outfit from California...since disappeared. For $65 Cndn, I received a small nicely framed crest, all hand stitched; a blazer crest, similarlyu stitched; and a nicely presented "family name history" for framing. To make sure of the name I asked to see a reference. The chap showed me a copy of Blacks and the reference there. So, excitedly, I bought the whole ball of wax. Many, many years later; last year, I wanted to do some more research into the various aspects of the crest. So I hopped over to James Dempster's web sight [Heraldry, etc.] which by the way is top drawer, and I discovered that "my" crest was a compilation of four historic crests, none of which were in legitimate use any longer and none of which were relevant to me. And totally, out of my right to possess. I had been had! Too soon, too old and too wise! In my quest for some "touch o' the heather" I had bought the scheme before I had really any experience with anything remotely akin to genealogy. Boy did I feel proud...and did so every year since. The crest still hangs above my computer as a testament to look before I leap...and it impresses my wee Cairn Terrier to no end! So be careful. Donna Sloboda wrote: > > Winifred > > Here is the name and address of the company in the UK. > History and Heritage > Thornton House 16 Parkstone Road, Poole, Dorset > BH15 2PG > > Fax 01202 666309 > Tel 01202 666627 > > email: historyand heritage@hotmail.com > website: genealogypro.com/historyand heritage.html > > If you live in the U.S. I have a website for a company in California and > also a telelphone number for Vancouver, Canada. They are quite cheap > compared to the UK prices. > I was going to get one until someone said that it wouldn't have been for all > the Lindores' only the individual Lindores at that time (1400's). > Give it a try. > > Sincerely, > Donna Lindores Sloboda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Winifred Dennett <wynn@telus.net> > To: <BORDER-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 7:48 PM > Subject: Family crest > > > Could anyone tell me how to obtain the family crest of the TELFER name? > > > >

For information on Armorial Bearings one can communicate with the College of Arms, London England - they have a URL however I don't think they answer specific questions on it - one has to write, as I recall, and a fee could be charged. At their site they explain the system of granting Arms too. I have misplaced their URL - go to a search engine - www.google.com and enter a query. In general, a Grant could be made by the College - usually to the father, and then the Grant is to him and his descendents. Therefore the Grant is to specific people being the (male) descendants of the original holder. At some later date, if one is a descendent of the original grantee, that person can apply to the College for a right to use the Grant, providing descent in an unbroken male line, can be established. My recall is that in modern times the regulations about being male only have been relaxed - but all of this is detailed in the site. The Granting of Armorial Bearings does go back to the times of William I, but grants are also provided in modern times too - several are under consideration now. There are various sites and publications dealing with this interesting matter - as extensive Pedigree filings were required by the College, any of those descended from one who was entitled to use the Arms granted can find extensive genealogical data. In general, Arms were sought by the Gentry and there has been some criticism by some that the Heralds in their Visitations and the College themselves were not very discriminating, at one time, in establishing lineage - perhaps even bribery was involved? But you are correct - there is no such thing as a Heraldic Crest that is applicable to a surname - only to specific individuals. By the way, after some years absence, Burke's Peerage has just been published again - and that along with Burke's Landed Gentry, Burke's data on homes/estates/properties, can be a good place to gather ancestral information. One might have had an ancestor who in the service of someone with an Estate - good records are about, in some cases, of those in service. -----Original Message----- From: Lesley Robertson [mailto:l.a.robertson@stm.tudelft.nl] Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 11:17 AM To: BORDER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Family crest >If you live in the U.S. I have a website for a company in California and >also a telelphone number for Vancouver, Canada. They are quite cheap >compared to the UK prices. >I was going to get one until someone said that it wouldn't have been for all >the Lindores' only the individual Lindores at that time (1400's). >Give it a try. > I'm afraid that's true for all UK-linked heraldry - it belongs to specific people and not to a surname in general. There's no such thing as a coat of arms for everybody of a given name. Lesley Robertson

A while ago, I requested help in finding a calculator which would assist in establishing a birth date, when you know the death date and the information from a tomb stone. The following url is just the ticket...although I have not tried it yet. I am going to file it until I can recall why I needed it...old age, you know! Al Dempster http://web2.airmail.net/bhende19/b-date.htm

Winifred Here is the name and address of the company in the UK. History and Heritage Thornton House 16 Parkstone Road, Poole, Dorset BH15 2PG Fax 01202 666309 Tel 01202 666627 email: historyand heritage@hotmail.com website: genealogypro.com/historyand heritage.html If you live in the U.S. I have a website for a company in California and also a telelphone number for Vancouver, Canada. They are quite cheap compared to the UK prices. I was going to get one until someone said that it wouldn't have been for all the Lindores' only the individual Lindores at that time (1400's). Give it a try. Sincerely, Donna Lindores Sloboda ----- Original Message ----- From: Winifred Dennett <wynn@telus.net> To: <BORDER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 7:48 PM Subject: Family crest > Could anyone tell me how to obtain the family crest of the TELFER name? > >

I am looking for Annan. I am assuming it is in the Dumfries, Dumfrieshire area. If you are acquainted with Annan, then would you please be able to help me with the following set of information: Steele, ? + ?,? > 1. Dixon, John + Steele, Rosa > their stats a] Mary Dixon + ? > ? b] Irene Dixon + ? > ? there may be two more children 2. Steele, Cyril + ?, Mary > their stats a] Ken Steele + ? > etc. there may be more children There were four children of the first Steele. Two came to Canada and two stayed in Scotland and were subsequently lost track of because of the turmoil in Canada, with respect to the family's situation. Sincerely, and thanking you in advance...Al Dempster

Could anyone tell me how to obtain the family crest of the TELFER name?

Looking for any connections for this RENTON family. Thanks in advance. Chris Bain Westwood, MA USA 1. WILLIAM RENTON, b. 1819 in Edinburgh, Dalkeith, SCT, d. bef. 1896 in Scotland, m. 31 May 1846 St. Boswells, Roxburgh, SCT Janet Bain/Bone, b. 1825 Greenlaw, Berwick, SCT, d. 4 Oct 1896 Torwoodlee, Stow, SCT dau. of William Bone/Bain and Elizabeth Rae . 2. i. Robert Renton, b. 28 Sep 1846, St. Boswells, Roxburgh, SCT; d. 9 Dec 1918, Dawson, SAUS ii. William B. Renton, b. 1850, Galashiels, SCT. iii. John Renton, b. 1851, St. Boswells, Roxburgh, SCT. iv. Peter Renton, b. 1851, St. Boswells, Roxburgh, SCT. v. Elizabeth Renton, b. 1853, Lauder, Berwick, SCT. vi. Thomas Renton, b. Bef. 17 Apr 1856, Lauder, Berwick, SCT. vii. Janet Renton, b. Bef. 15 Sep 1858, Ledgerwood, Berwick, SCT, m. 31 Dec 1874 Swinton and Simpron, Berwick, SCT John Purves, . viii.George Renton, b. Bef. 30 Jan 1861, Lauder, Berwick, SCT. 3. ix. Margaret Renton, b. Bef. 5 Oct 1863, Lauder, Berwick, SCT. x. Alexander Renton, b. Bef. 17 Mar 1865, Lauder, Berwick, SCT, d, 14 Dec 1932 Humbie parish, East Lothian SCT, m. Jessie Eunson Stewart, b. 9 Sep 1868 Humbie, d. 17 Feb 1946 Humbie, dau. of William Dunbar Stewart and Jessie Foubister. Both are bur. at Fala cemetery, Humbie parish, East Lothian, SCT. They had no children. Generation No. 2 2. ROBERT RENTON, b. 28 Sep 1846 St. Boswells, Roxburgh, SCT, d. 9 Dec 1918 in Dawson, SAUS, m. 18 Jun 1866 in Cockpen, Midlothian, SCT Janet Murray, b. 18 Sep 1846 in Lauder, Berwick, SCT, d. 14 Feb 1925 Dawson, SAUS, dau. of Thomas Murray and Madelena Young. Arrived South Australia aboard The Peerless 7 Nov 1866 4. i. Janet Renton, b. 16 May 1867, Alberton, Adelaide, SAUS, d. 16 Aug 1927, Oodla Wirra, SAUS. ii. Madeline Renton, b. 10 Apr 1869, Port Adelaide, SAUS, m. J Kennedy. 5. iii. William Renton, b. 21 Nov 1871, Gottliebs Wells, SAUS. iv. Elizabeth Renton, b. 7 Sep 1873; d. Abt. 1944, SAUS. 6. v. Robert Bone Renton, b. 24 Aug 1875, Yarcowie, SAUS. vi. Alexander Murray Renton, b. 8 Feb 1878, Terowie, SAUS, d. 1879, Terowie, SAUS. vii. Lillie Adelaide Renton, b. 22 Nov 1880, Terowie, SAUS, d. 11 Sep 1883, Terowie, SAUS. viii. Rose Alexandria Renton, b. 4 Aug 1882, Terowie, SAUS, d. 21 Oct 1884 Terowie, SAUS. ix. Thomas George Renton, b. 3 Oct 1885, Terowie, SAUS, d. 19 Feb 1886, Terowie, SAUS. 3. MARGARET RENTON, b. Bef. 5 Oct 1863 Lauder, Berwick, SCT, m. 19 Mar 1872 Swinton and Simpron, Berwick, SCT George Dickson . i. WILLIAM DICKSON, b. 3 Apr 1873, Swinton And Simpron, Berwick, SCT. ii. JOHN DICKSON, b. 25 Jul 1874, Swinton And Simpron, Berwick, SCT.

The 2% extracts for Roberton, along with all the 2% extracts for Roxburghshire and Berwickshire and the North Eastern English counties are on my site as under. Allow these pages a while to load, they are quite long in some cases. Best regards - Mike Simpson, Penrith, NSW, Australia Email: agene@bigfoot.com HomePage: http://www.bigfoot.com/~agene

Genuki contains an index of the above from which I note: Hobkirk, George - baker and corn merchant 1816-1877, 1921. He was my wife's 2G uncle. Does anybody know where I can obtain a copy or is anybody prepared to scan and email the relevant entry? Any help will be much appreciated. Peter J. Stone South Africa stone@futurest.co.za

I would like to thank everybody who has be kind enough to respond to my queries re the above. It seems that Roberton lies both in SEL and ROX and that there is a place called Highchesters about 2 miles West of Hawick on the B711. It seems probable that Easter Highchesters was/is in the vicinity. Thank you all. Peter J. Stone South Africa stone@futurest.co.za

>I followed your explanation of the 2% extracts, but there doesn't appear to >be one for Ayton. > >Does anyone have access to the 1851 Census? > If you have a LDS family history centre near you, you can ask them to get the films for you, and look yourself. There isn't a full index for the 1851 - and what there is is ruled by Murphy's Law (there's only 2 census books for the village of Whitsome - they did the one I don't need! Lesley Robertson

>It is in both. > >If you check the Genuki pages for Roxburgh and or Selkirk they >will explain this > >http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ > This is a good place to repeat a warning that has appeared on soc.genealogy.britain this week. Apparently a commercial company in England has started calling itself Genuki (and claiming affiliation with the real site) and has reserved web addresses including genuki.com. People wanting to use the real Genuki should be sure they use the address as shown by Sheila, above, - genuki.org.uk. Lesley Robertson

I would also be interested in " Biographies of Hawick People" so please ansewer to list. My main interests at the moment are RICHARDSON, RENWICK, and HELM. Walter Richarson Angus, Ontario, Canada

unsubscribe ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com